As vaccinations continue around the country, organizations and governments are deciding what policies should be moving forward. For the Jefferson City Council, one key issue for debate is what meetings will look like.
All council members agree with continuing to stream meetings so members of the community can watch either while it's happening or later.
However, different opinions arise when considering whether committee members and presenters should be able to take part virtually.
The conversation started during Monday night's council meeting when members considered the renewal of emergency declarations related to the pandemic. One of the declarations allowed boards to meeting totally or partially online.
They renewed the declaration because changing it would have affected a virtual meeting scheduled two days later; the declaration is scheduled to expire June 7 unless extended again.
Ward 2 Councilperson Laura Ward, Ward 3's Erin Wiseman and Jon Hensley, of Ward 5, say allowing members to participate virtually just makes sense with improving technology, and it would increase participation.
Even before the pandemic, Hensley said, virtual meetings were becoming more common, particularly for public or governmental meetings. Now, that's likely to speed up, he said.
Hensley said he has received no negative comments from members of the public about the virtual meetings and doesn't personally see a downside.
He also agreed with Ward and Wiseman's main argument: Virtual meetings would increase participation and provide equitable access.
"If being in person in a particular building is an absolute prerequisite at a particular time to be able to participate on a board or commission, I sort of feel like we're arbitrarily or unnecessarily limiting the pool of people who are eligible to participate," Hensley said. "I just generally don't think that's a good idea if it can be avoided."
Ward said she's hopeful virtual participation would allow more of the younger generation to get involved in city government, not only as participants but as members.
When she first moved to Jefferson City and got involved on boards, Ward said, she had a 3-year-old son and was pregnant with her daughter.
"I was always having to drag my children to events I was working at," she said. "I carried highlighters and paper in my bag so they could sit at the meeting and color. They got a taste of volunteering in the community very young, but having a virtual option would have helped make it a little bit easier. No one cared they were there, but it was kind of stressful on mom."
The structure where all committee members need to meet in person, she said, means it seems like most members are retirement age.
"It might be nice to find a way for our younger community members to get involved and hear what they would like to see," she said.
Wiseman supports a virtual option and was thinking it could specifically help people with health issues or concerns be involved in the governmental process.
"There are very competent people who have some underlying health conditions where they may not want to be in public or just had surgery or something," she said. "This allows them to attend meetings in that fashion."
Wiseman also said virtual participation will become easier as technology continues improving.
Council members against the allowance argue it's easier to communicate when meeting in person and there aren't technology interruptions such as somebody's mic turned off or internet trolls joining to play music.
"Speaking for myself, it's a lot easier for me to communicate with people when I can see them face to face," Councilman Mark Schreiber, Ward 5, said. "I think a lot of people would have that same opinion."
However, Schreiber noted, sometimes it might make sense for a presenter to take part virtually - for example, somebody interested in bringing a business to Jefferson City who doesn't live locally or a community member with medical conditions.
"I don't have a problem with that," he said.
Councilmen Scott Spencer, of Ward 3, and Ward 4's Derrick Spicer said they'd like to see meetings back in person because it makes communication easier
"I've been participating in quite a few virtual meetings, and sometimes, it just loses the effect of being able to really discuss issues and have the ability to see someone face to face in the room and have a discussion," Spencer said. "Maybe I'm old-fashioned in that regard."
Councilman Ron Fitzwater, of Ward 4, pointed out the interruptions during Wednesday morning's virtual Committee on Administration meeting, which needed to pause for several minutes while city staff addressed a troll account playing music.
Fitzwater said he sees a benefit for presenters to have a virtual option but thinks the people making decisions need to be in the room.
"I think we need to operate more like the Legislature does," he said. "That elected officials, or the appointed individuals on our boards and commissions, ought to be in the room live so that we can have a discussion and not have to do it via the internet and try to recognize people, get talked over or have musical interruptions."
He said he would be open to discussion of exceptions that would allow committee members to participate virtually in specific situations, but he was concerned if the language isn't tight enough, it could become a slippery slope.
"I wouldn't just outright dismiss it without at least taking a look at it and listening to their side of it," he said. "For the most part, I think we need to be in a room, and I'd be hard pressed to support something unless it was so obvious and tightly written."
Ward 2 Councilman Mike Lester said he's open to virtual presenters during meetings. While in general, he said, committee members should be in person, he would be open to virtual participation on rare occasions.
"For the meetings to have a quorum, we have to have the visual display, and I think that's appropriate," he said. "If we allow (virtual participation), I think at least a visual display would be needed for those commission participants."
Councilman David Kemna, of Ward 1, argued the decision should lie with the individual committees whether their meetings should be fully in person, online or a hybrid, especially for smaller subcommittees.
For the City Council and major committees such as Public Works and Public Safety, in-person meetings should be the preferred method, he said.
"I think when you have everybody in the same room, it's easier to get their vantage points and viewpoints," he said. "I think it's easier to bounce questions as you're there. I think there are even conversations that happen prior to the meeting. For me, like if I have a question for maybe Matt Morasch with Public Works, it's easier to have those kinds of discussions."
However, Kemna recognized what works best for him might not be what's best for somebody else. The members of committees such as Cultural Arts might work better in a virtual setting.
"Those committees I feel like should have the opportunity to discuss how they want to hold their meetings," he said. "If the chair and everybody has an agreement that 'we're fine with having it virtual if you can call in,' I think that's on them. Maybe they can set those guidelines every year when they change up some of the committee members."
Councilman Hank Vogt, Ward 1, said he doesn't have a strong opinion regarding whether committee members should meet in person or not.
"We have a commitment and obligation, but for instance, if there's a committee member who has something going on at home or they're not feeling well but they can participate on video, I believe that we should have that option available to anyone," he said.
Mayor Carrie Tergin said the virtual option was helpful during the pandemic because it allowed business to keep moving forward without putting board members at risk of contracting the virus.
Now, with boards largely meeting in person, the members still use social distancing to reduce risk.
While she said the preference is to meet in person, having a virtual option is helpful because sometimes it may be necessary.
With the council chambers set up to live- stream, including multiple cameras, that should continue to give community members another option to see what's going on within the city.
"I think there are some instances when the virtual option is helpful, especially when there may be a light agenda, but it's still helpful to have that meeting," she said. "The virtual option can be helpful rather than cancel meetings or put things off.
"However, there are times that certainly meeting in person is the ideal situation, but I do think having the option for virtual when needed is good to have."