Obama jabs at Romney over his '47 percent' remarks

JIM KUHNHENN and KEN THOMAS, Associated Press

Wednesday, September 19, 2012

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — President Barack Obama declared Tuesday night the occupant of the Oval Office must "work for everyone, not just for some," jabbing back at Mitt Romney's jarring statement that as a candidate, he doesn't worry about the 47 percent of the country that pays no income taxes.

Romney neither disavowed nor apologized for his remarks, which included an observation that nearly half of the country believe they are victims and entitled to a range of government support. Instead, Romney cast his comment as evidence of a fundamental difference with Obama over the economy, adding the federal government should not "take from some to give to the others."

As the rivals sparred with seven weeks remaining in a close race for the White House, two GOP Senate candidates publicly disavowed Romney's remarks, caught on videotape at a fundraiser. Republican officials openly debated the impact that a series of controversies would have on the party's prospects of winning the presidency.

Romney's running mate, Rep. Paul Ryan, said the Republican presidential nominee was "obviously inarticulate" in trying to make his point. The Wisconsin congressman told KRNV-TV in Reno, Nev., "The point we're trying to make here is, under the Obama economy, government dependency is up and economic stagnation is up."

Top Republicans in Congress declined through aides to offer their reaction to Romney's remarks — just as they generally refrained from commenting a week ago when he issued a statement that inaccurately accused the Obama administration of giving comfort to demonstrators after they breached the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.

While the Romney campaign has been promoting its fundraising prowess for months, it acknowledged that it had borrowed $20 million before the GOP national convention to boost its cash flow as it waited to begin tapping its general election funds. Under law, that money wouldn't be available until Romney was officially nominated.

The Romney campaign confirmed Tuesday night that it took out the loan in August, using its general election accounts as collateral. The National Review Online first reported the loan.

The most recent controversy in a campaign filled with them was ignited by the emergence of a videotape, made last May, in which Romney told donors at a fundraiser that 47 percent of Americans pay no income taxes. They "believe the government has a responsibility to care for them ... believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it. That that's an entitlement."

He said, "I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

In a next-day interview on Fox, the network of choice for conservatives, Romney said he didn't intend to write off any part of a deeply divided electorate, including seniors who are among those who often pay no taxes. Instead, he repeatedly sought to reframe his remarks as a philosophical difference of opinion between himself and Obama.

"I'm not going to get" votes from Americans who believe government's job is to redistribute wealth,' he said, adding that was something Obama believes in.

He also said he wants to be president so he can help hard-pressed Americans find work and earn enough so they become income taxpayers.

Romney didn't say so, but the U.S. income tax is designed to be progressive, so those who earn the most theoretically pay the most. Through programs as diverse as Social Security, Medicare, health care and food stamps, the government collects tax revenue and pays it out in the form of benefits for those who qualify.

Obama responded during an appearance on the David Letterman show.

"One thing I've learned as president is that you represent the entire country," he said. As for Romney's statement about the 47 percent, he said, "There are not a lot of people out there who think they are victims" or simply entitled.

At the same time, his campaign released a new ad saying that if Romney wins the White House, he might seek the elimination of a series of tax breaks used by millions of middle class Americans. "Mitt Romney, he's so focused on big business and tax cuts for the wealthy, it seems like his answers to middle class America are just tough luck," says a woman in the commercial.

For his part, Romney referred to videotaped comments Obama made in 1998 as evidence he favored government redistribution of wealth. As an Illinois state senator at the time, Obama said he believes in it "at least to a certain level to make sure everybody's got a shot."

Privately, some Republicans were harshly critical of Romney's most recent comments and his overall campaign to date, saying he had frittered away opportunities. They also noted that with early voting already under way in some states, the time to recover was smaller than might appear.

Linda McMahon, the Republican candidate for a Senate seat in Connecticut, was open with her criticism. "I disagree with Governor Romney's insinuation that 47% of Americans believe they are victims who must depend on the government for their care," she said in a statement posted to her website.

Sen. Scott Brown, in a tough race for re-election in heavily Democratic Massachusetts, said of Romney's comments: "That's not the way I view the world."

Still, with high-profile presidential debates and seven weeks of campaigning yet ahead, others said those concerns were overstated.

"I don't expect the negative headlines of this week will be what we're talking about a week from now," said Fergus Cullen, the former Republican state chairman in New Hampshire and a close ally of Romney. Like other Republicans, he said, "It's incumbent on the Romney campaign to make it (the election) about Obama's handling of the economy."

In recent days, Republicans have grumbled that Romney needed to sharpen his appeal to struggling middle class Americans by stating more clearly what he would do as president to help them. That effort began overnight with a new ad designed to appeal to female voters.

The new controversy blazed as opinion polls suggested that a narrow lead Obama gained nationally and in some key battleground states in the wake of the Democratic National Convention might be ebbing.

The sluggish economy and lingering high unemployment are by far the overriding issues of the election, and Romney's case for the presidency is based on his claim that his success as a businessman has left him the skills needed to create jobs in a nation where unemployment is 8.1 percent.

Obama and the Democrats have tried to counter by depicting the president's challenger as a multimillionaire who has some of his wealth invested in the Cayman Islands and elsewhere overseas, and is out of touch with the needs of middle class Americans.

In his original reaction to the video, posted by the left-leaning magazine Mother Jones, Romney told reporters Monday night that his fundraising remarks were "not elegantly stated." But he offered no apologies and did not answer directly when asked if he felt he had offended anyone.

He also called for the release of the entire video, rather than selected clips, and Mother Jones did so Tuesday afternoon.

By then, the magazine had already posted another excerpt in which Romney offered an unvarnished assessment of the chances for peace in the Middle East. "The Palestinians have no interest whatsoever in establishing peace," and "the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish," he said.

"You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that this is going to remain an unsolved problem," he said, "and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it."

A spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said the Palestinians were ready for peace based on the 1967 borders, a two-state solution and stopping settlement activities.

"We think that these statements are part of the election campaign, but unfortunately, it will not help the peace process, but rather, will strengthen the voices of extremism and the voices of those who refuse to reach a two-state solution," Abbas spokesman Nabil Abu Rdeneh said in a statement.

On another topic, he also noted that his father was born in Mexico and suggested humorously that "I'd have a better shot at winning this" if George Romney had been born to Mexican parents. "But he was unfortunately born to Americans living in Mexico. ... And I say that jokingly, but it would be helpful to be Latino."

Kuhnhenn reported from Washington. Associated Press reporters Holly Ramer in Dover, N.H., Matthew Daly in New York, Sandra Chereb in Carson City, Nev., and David Espo, Charles Babington, Julie Pace, Philip Elliott and Kasie Hunt in Washington contributed to this report.

More like this story

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

Romeny is going to look like Nixon in the debate, the only language he knows is MONEY. Rob

wyriontair 9 months ago

At least he knows he's had to work for it, I find that remark pretty interesting considering that Obama just had a $40,000 a plate fundraiser with celebraties with a $250,000 champaign tower. If Obama's so concerned with all of us little people, when is he going to rub elbows with us?

newone 9 months ago

I have seen Obama rub elbows with a lot of "little people" over the past four years, Romney doesn't even know a "little person", we just suck blood from the government so he has no use for us! And just an FYI, those are FUNDRAISER events, Romney has $40,000 plate events every day of his life. And I guess if you consider sending thousands of job's over seas as "working hard" for his money then I guess he did.

wow 9 months ago

He hides his money to keep from paying taxes, but he whines that only 47% of Americans pay taxes. Also, part of that 47% are retiree's....military types who have paid more than their share of dues so that Mr. Romney and the Richie Riches could sit stateside making millions to ship off to those Swish and Camon Island accounts. Then there are the regular Joe's and Jane's that worked hard to retire...only to have some of those Romney Rich folks rob them blind! Mitt please take you and your family back to Utah, back to that cult you call a religion. At least there youccan live out the rest of your lives with people who are just as confused as you are.

clingingredneck 9 months ago

OMG! What a hit piece! What else should one expect from the AP though. First off, if you watch the video you see that Romney doesn't say he doesn't care about the 47%, he says he is not going to be able to influence thier vote to give up their FREE STUFF so he is not going to WORRY about trying to get their VOTE! And what about the 3-4 minutes of audio that Mother Jones admitted that was "missing"? Why aren't you all over that? Like you would be with Obama!

You libs act like its treason to say that someone should have to work for what they get. I pray that Romney DOESN'T apologize for what he said. It's all true! The Dems have spent the last 60 years breeding a voting base and when they hit 51% of Americans that don't pay taxes or work for a living then we will have full blown socialism. At that point I'm leaving for parts unknown, if there is any place left in this world that promotes freedom. Too bad, I work too, so you don't have to feed me or put me up in housing, and then you won't be able to take 50% of what I make any more either! ROMNEY/RYAN 2012!

MO4LIFE 9 months ago

if they are taking 50% now you aeither owe back taxes, child support or you are being robbed blind!!!!!!! And go back and listen to the tape because at end of his 47% statement Romney says "As President it is not my job to worry about those people that don't pay taxes"

clingingredneck 9 months ago

You obviously don't work for yourself MO4LIFE, because by the time they take out the Federal Tax, State Tax, Social Security, and other taxes, it's right at 50%. If you are self employed you CANNOT make it in this regulated tax crazy economy of ours! You do your research. There are TWO MINUTES of missing tape. He is saying that he cannot change their minds! Not that there are not people who he won't help, but people who won't vote for them because it would mean they have to go back to work! And HE IS RIGHT!

bluesfan13 9 months ago

I call bull. 13% for social security and medicare. At most, 5% for State tax. (the top bracket is 6%, but not all of your income is taxed at that rate. That means you claim you're paying over 30% Federal tax on ALL of your earnings. You'd have to be making over $200,000 per year to pay that rate. The only difference between self employed or not (as far as taxation goes) is the 7.65% employer share of social security and medicare. Unless by 50% tax, you're talking about sales and use taxes, and property taxes. In which case your "self employed" argument is irrelevant. Everyone pays those.

Sequoia 9 months ago

The problem with what Romney said is that the vast majority of the 47 percent who don't pay income taxes ACTUALLY WORK. They work. What was so offensive about what Romney said is that people who don't earn enough, or who have large enough families, not to pay income tax are people who don't have "personal responsibility" or that they "don't care for their lives."

You know who doesn't pay income taxes? A family with 5 kids who EARNS $50,000 a year. You think that family doesn't understand personal responsibility? You think that family doesn't "care for their lives" just because they aren't as rich as the smug millionares in the room with Romney?

Romney is a punk who had everything handed to him. Then he says that anyone who isn't as rich as him is a lazy loser. Let me tell you something Romney, I believe that "caring for your life" means more than making as much money I can in any way that I can. Daddy didn't hand me tuition for two Harvard graduate degrees and a home loan, so excuse me for not being a rich douche. You and your friends aren't the only good people in this country. You're not the only people who matter. You're not the only people who care and work hard.

This is what burns me up. Nobody is saying that people shouldn't work. You're trying to say that a vote for Obama is a vote against working. That's just plain wrong.

PEPOPLE WHO DON'T PAY INCOME TAX STILL WORK FOR A LIVING. THEY STILL PAY LOTS OF OTHER TAXES (PAYROLL, PROPERTY, SALES, ETC.)

Get that through your head. Stop telling lies and insulting people.

Sequoia 9 months ago

Anyone who works for a living but isn't a multi-millionare, anyone who thinks that spending time with your family is more important than making another 100K, anyone who thinks "work to live, don't live to work," YOU'RE the ones who make this country great. I'm in this group. I work, but work isn't the most important thing to me. I didn't have a fortune handed to me, and I'm not interested in trying to build a pile of coins.

Romney just laughed and urninated all over everyone who thinks that there is more to life than money grubbing. He laughed and urinated all over most Americans. On video.

And some of you are here, lapping it up, thanking Romney for "telling you the truth," with your faces dripping wet.

Well, at least you're not a "liberal," eh? You suckers.

clingingredneck 9 months ago

It's all or nothing with you people isn't it? No conservative said that there are not people who need help. What we did say is that there are people who are SCAMMING the system. When they start making videos about their "EBT" card, something is wrong. A family of 5 on $50,000 per year who is working is NOT who he is talking about. The 5th generation welfare mom who pops out kid after kid to keep the money rolling in IS! Nobody said cut ALL the help. What he said and keeps on saying that is ticking you off is that it needs to be scaled back! When 47% of the country is on Welfare, Food Stamps, and Disability there is something SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM! FIX IT!

Sequoia 9 months ago

But 47 percent of the country ISN'T on welfare. 47 percent of the country doesn't pay income tax. THAT'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Just because you don't pay income tax doesn't mean you're "scamming the system."

Yes, a family of five living on 50K IS WHO HE'S TALKING ABOUT... BECAUSE THEY DON'T PAY INCOME TAX. They're NOT on welfare. They just don't pay income tax. THEY'RE NOT SCAMMING THE SYSTEM.

People who don't pay income tax still have jobs. They work. You and Romney made it sound like they don't. That's wrong.

You're making it sound like anyone who doesn't pay income tax is on welfare. That is wrong.

Romney didn't say public assistance needs to be scaled back. He said that anybody who doesn't pay income tax doesn't take personal responsibility and doesn't care for their lives.

That's what ticked me off. It should tick off everyone.

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

You probably have never been any place but Cole County you are in for culture shock when you leave the good old USA, so please go. Romeny likes the Swiss alps, or the Caman Islands. Rob

clingingredneck 9 months ago

Oh Rob, you poor deluded man. I left Missouri a long time ago. My move to Tennessee was a great thing, because I got away from all the Jeff City Liberals! Yes, I have been many places, including the Camen Islands and Mexico, and I have seen the other cultures. Most of them are beautiful and they still know how to respect a hard days work. They don't feel entitled to anything and don't expect it to be handed to them on a silver platter like the far left do in this country. Maybe you should travel some and get an idea of what life is supposed to be like, instead of sitting in your ivory tower. Have you had to scr ape the couch to come up with gas money to get to work? Go to the church to get food because your kids were hungry? Buy all your clothes from garage sales because that's all you could afford? And STILL have enough pride to refuse to live off someone else's sweat? I doubt it. But I have.

spelchek 9 months ago

Not as bad as disliking the handicapped...

"When asked about the bowling alley in the White House, Obama joked to Leno that his average score of 129 'was like the Special Olympics or something.' "

eileen10 9 months ago

Oh spelchek, it's not that he dislikes the handicapped. He just has a bawdy sense of humor.It wasn't in the best of taste but I,m not upset over what he said and I'm handicapped.Have the walker and placard to boot. For inquiring minds, after the first surgery for colon cancer I had a rare occurance to vancomycin. It damaged the nerves in my middle ears causing permanent vertigo hence the need for a walker. Shi# happens. Life goes on.

spelchek 9 months ago

One word for my comment: facetious. Obama was ineloquent, people hyperventilated. Romney was ineloquent, people are hyperventilating.

eileen10 9 months ago

Gotcha. And your right.

eileen10 9 months ago

This captcha thing drives me crazy!!!!

GrumpyGus 9 months ago

The problem for the Democrats is that many in the 47 percent don't think they are in the 47 percent and agree with Romney. Don't have the source, but saw something last week that indicated over 70 percent of Americans think the federal govt. is doing too much. So Romney is trying to scale that back, get us closer to full employment and taking the burden off of tax payers. Most people agree with this idea. Then you have Obama who believes in redistribution policies. I'm glad the subject is coming up because it allows Romney to show a very sharp contrast between his ideas, and what seem to be very unpopular ideas on the left. Its the giant gorilla in the corner that hasn't been addressed since Reagan/Carter.

eileen10 9 months ago

I agree with getting people back to work full time but how can that happen when the jobs aren't there? I'm sure it has to do with ...Heck. I don't know. You guys know more rhan I do when it comes to gov't stuff because I'm still learning and a lot of people aren't really politically inclined. They don't know the deep stuff and that's where I was until I found this place and people need to know what's going on and have a grasp of politics. I'm like a sponge so everybody..keep on talking, I'll keep reading different news articles and what people have to say and maybe more people will get involved like I did. It can get confusing though.

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

How does someone on Social Security and Medicare fit with the 47% that Romeny is refering to? How to get jobs that are not here to come back? We quit buying all the Chinese stuff for one, when you pick something up you look at the label, and if you have to buy something you at least look at the end profit. It is hard to do but if you look at the label that is the start. I broke the Walmart habit, there is all other sorts of venues to shop at in Jefferson City, when I do shop at Walmart it is with a list, and not in Jefferson City. Rob

clingingredneck 9 months ago

Well Rob it must be nice to have the money to be able to afford to be choosy about what you buy. Most of us can only afford the generic. Especially now that we don't have jobs. Eileen10, you wanted to know what would bring jobs back? Getting rid of the 700 Billion dollars of regulations that Obama has put on businesses in the last four years. Providing some stable policies for business owners to rely on. reducing the taxes on small businesses and the fines for not supporting his communist healthcare bill. Basically for government to take it's boot off the neck of the small business owner. Then we could go back to work and be choosy about what we buy, just like Rob.

eileen10 9 months ago

I don't buy anything that comes from China due to all the bad press. Some times I had to wonder if they were trying to kill us.

eileen10 9 months ago

Here's where it gets confusing. One person says this and another peron says that and I'm trying to figure it all out by reading everything I can. Not just the posts, but the different news articles from different sources. All I can say is I'd like to be on a slow boat to Norway until November 16th.

Littleinvestor 9 months ago

Eileen10, at least you are reading lots of articles. Pull in as much information from as many sources as possible and then make your own decision. This country would be much better off if all the single-source news folks (regardless of party, gender or lib/con) would broaden their information gathering. If you have a brain, use it, don't let someone else tell you what to think. That is also why if you have 10 informed people in the conversation, you likely will have 10 points of view, and they are all valid as far as I'm concerned.

eileen10 9 months ago

Thank you Littleinvestor. I appreciate everything you said and I will continue to read and learn and make sound decisions. I may end up with a pounding brain ache once in a while but that's okay. No pain-no gain.

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

You would rather invest in China rather than America, You are to busy pouncing on an opinion rather than reading. Open your eyes and just take a look you will find alot of American made things that are relatively close in price and probably alot better in Quality! I see where DEREGULATION got us from 2001 to 2009, and a Communist Health plan? The only ones that don,t like the new plan are the Insurance Company, and Republicans?? Eilleen10 if you let the Republicans get there way they would have everything made in China, no regulations on polution there, Human rights , labor laws . Health care, ect. 20 years ago everything moved just south of Texas, cheap labor, no regulations, after they polluted the Rio Grande, the regulations caught up, and the labor force got to expensive, off they went to China. In the 90s I was working at 3M in Columbia and we would assemble and install machines to make Chips for data, The people were brought in from Asia to learn to run the machines. The people here would train them, they would dismantle them and ship everything overseas? The rich business owners have been trying to get around regulations for a long time. If you let the Rebuplicans have control eventually there would be no choice. Take a look at the label, that is a start, if you cannot find the item made here , then buy from a company who is from America rather than some foriegn company. Look at the end PROFIT! Hey Klinger I have been Unemployed the last 3 weeks so don't tell me to be choosy, I AM! Rob

JCLifer 9 months ago

Rob, I agree as well. Our country-- Hell, our state has lost so many good manufacturing jobs in just the past 10 years. These jobs were not making anyone rich, but they were giving honest hard-working folks a chance to join the middle class and provide for their families.

I try to buy American-made as well, but often there is not much opportunity to do so anymore. Even so, many American-made products by American comapanies are made from parts outsourced overseas, or from plants located overseas, Mexico, or Canada. Ironic that I can buy a Honda Pilot 95% made by American workers, but a Ford Fiesta is mostly made in Mexico. I will not buy an inferior product or spend much more money to byy American, however.
I don't know what we can do to compete with folks who want to work all day for a dollar. We have to beat them in automation, better materials, design, etc. We also need to level the playing field too, so that products are not being subsidized by other countries just to get market share. If they won't buy our stuff, we shouldn't buy their stuff. If they put tariffs on our stuff, we should put tariffs on their stuff. etc.

spelchek 9 months ago

Agreed. The Toyota Camry is more "American" than the Ford F-150, look it up:

//content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/07/toyota-camry-beats-ford-f-150-as-most-american-made/1#.UFyB5q6Ozkc

I agree with all Lifer said but would add lowering taxes would entice businesses to stay or join the US work industry because we'll never win with wages.

JCLifer 9 months ago

Taxing businesses makes very little sense. Taxes just drive up the cost of production, and the consumer pays for everything- including taxes. Higher-priced American products are less competitive than the foreign-made products they compete with.

eileen10 9 months ago

Rob, I'm a bit confused. I stated in an earlier post that I don't buy Chinese items due to all the bad press such as the dog food etc.I do read lables and I do buy American and I keep it thrifty. I'm all for keeping jobs here as well as manufacturing things here and not opening companies over seas because it's cheaper. But did I somehow not understand something?

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

eilleen10 no I try not to get personal , because my posts have been removed before. I just typed for the last half an hour and the computer just ate it, you are lucky cling. Rob

clingingredneck 9 months ago

Feel free to type it again! As I say, I will defend to the death your right to have your beliefs. Something that seems to have gotten lost in this day and age of touchy feely "oh you insulted me" reactionism. When people do not do their research or just blindly follow what the liberal media pumps out it enrages me. But then again, alot of things enrage me these days. Like that abomination of a flag that Obama is selling. Isn't it a federal offense to alter an american flag?

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

I have been all over this great country, I have lived in MO, MI,MT,KA< NC< the last 2 are right to work for less states. When I was NC. it was $6.00 per hour less? (1984) Is TN a RTW? I have been broke, and hungry. No one bought me a car or anything else I am about 3 checks from broke in th bank. I give to the orgnizations of my choice in Jefferson City. I have worked hard all my life as well as My Mother and Father, I think that Romeny thinks my mother is part of the 47% she is on SS and MC she pay a small tax on investments? Ryan is a bigger problem than Mitt, because they are preparing us for a fleecing. I just finished garaging with my wife, she buys almost all the clothes for the Grand Kids? Do you think that MITT and his wife really had it that rough in a 1 bd rm apt? Or do you think that Mitt has been to a garage sale? Kling you are not the only one who has had it hard, I was in Seatle Broke and Hungry. Good people helped me, a guy in LewisTown ID bought me a couple of donuts, I will never forget him or his 63 chevy station wagon, some how I got back to Missouri. I did not have a car! Sorry you had to leave our fine state, but I find it hard you left us liberals? Because Mo been republican for quite a while! MC and SS need to taken care for all, you will be old someday. Kling they don't give a d--- about you. Rob

clingingredneck 9 months ago

Yes Rob, I do. Mitt's dad was not a rich man. He made his money on his own. Yes, his father became Govenor, but they rose in politics together, not with Mitt sponging off his dad. Do you really think that every night Michelle waited at the top of her stairs with "open arms welcoming my crippled father into the bosom of his family"? What a crock! She was raised in an upper middle class household, not a five story brown stone. Obama was raised in a life of privledge as well. Do your research on him. I have tried to give the man the benefit of the doubt. I would have loved for our first black president to be something this country could have been proud of. As it stands, he is going to go down either as the worst president in the history of this country (with more scandals that Nixon), or as the destroyer of the United States, which I believe is ultimately his goal, so that he can rebuild it in the image he holds in his mind.

clingingredneck 9 months ago

LOL. KC and STL have been DEEP Blue for many years and with all the dead people voting they turn that state Blue!

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

Please tell me about dead people voting in Missouri? List the times Rob

eileen10 9 months ago

Rob, I get it. I reread the posts and now I see what set you off. Or more like who set you off.Just spilled my coffee. Intermission.

JCLifer 9 months ago

I don't think either party really gives a damn about any of us. They just want to blow smoke so we will vote for them.

spelchek 9 months ago

An independent thought alarm just went off at the NSA.

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

Kling they turn your electric off on Fridays that way the food spoils all weekend, they have turned it off more than once for me! Mexico, Cozemel got off the boat in 2002, 3 men in jeans, sunglases, boonie hats, jeep, a 50 cal machine gun, m16s, 1911 pistols greeted us when we disembarked, you could not help, but notice the lack of a building code? We load on a bus to go see the Mayan ruins, and about 3 blocks from the beach they kept livestock in the yards, just look up any alley? Rosa Rita 80 mi south of San Diego, at every intersection there were wrecked vehicles some back to 50s, you need special insurance because if you wreck the car it is are not coming back! Need to use the Banos, got to the outdoor stadium next to the market, pee in a trough, drains through out the wall and pores on the ground. Market sells chicken in wax boxes, flys everywhere; remeber the part pores on the ground. Tiujana ,and Juarez more of the same, I have been to all these places, you dont drink the water, and you wipe the top of the bottle well! You may have seen something sanitized, but I like seeing the other side of places, because that is how you can get a feel for something, Seatle, and Detroit. They are all the same! If you think are going to get it better under Ryan/Romeny vote for them. There is more to this than babies and guns. These guys will rubber stamp this and that for the Rich, I hope you wake up before you regret you VOTE.. Rob

clingingredneck 9 months ago

Ok, I was in Mexico recently and have visited frequently over the past five years. They don't stop "building" on the buildings because when they do they have to pay the taxes on the property. My husband is in construction and we found that out. They just leave them sitting "under construction" for years to avoid the taxes. LOL Clever little loophole. I have never had to pee in a trough. I have drank the water plenty of times. Their water system is just as advanced as ours in Mexico. Now if you go down into Honduras it's another story, but they are a socialist country too. And let me ask you something, let it roll around in your brain a while. Seattle and Detroit have been big democratic states and cities for 80 years. They have had democratic law makers and democratic laws. Don't you think that if liberalism and social welfare programs were going to work these places would be shining examples of how wonderful it is? Instead you have some of the highest poverty rates, murder rates, and crime rates in the nation. If you go to Texas, which is a conservative state, with conservative laws, that say 'If you need a hand up we will help, but you need to stand on your own as soon as you can', what you find is a low poverty, murder, and crime rate. Well, except in democratic hot beds like Dallas. Then they look more like Detroit. From a scientific standpoint, if you are able to repeat the environment and produce the same results time after time, it's probably an indication of something. Just think about it.

Littleinvestor 9 months ago

I have relatives and acquaintances in nursing homes. Most of those people paid income tax their entire working lives. Now that they have the huge nursing home cost deduction, most of them no longer pay income tax. Lots of elderly still in their homes also pay no income tax. They are in that 47 percent and the estimate I have seen is that 10 percent of Americans are in this group of elderly. For Mitt to call them freeloaders indicates he does not know how the average American lives. We do have too many people on welfare; I know some people who are too lazy to get out of the way of a speeding truck much less get a job. I'll never understand the earned income tax credit or like it. But to snarl about the elderly who are spending down their net worth because they have lived into their late 80s or 90s is just mean beyond belief. I guess they should have just committed suicide when they got old.

spelchek 9 months ago

Republicans will put blacks back in chains too, just ask court jester Biden.

JCLifer 9 months ago

The ObamaCare death panels will take care of them when they get old. No need to commit suicide.

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

Thanks for the info, Little Investor, I to do not lke the EIC either? The only way to change the system is cut the waste first, what is waste? SS and MC are not! How does Mitt feel, 47% answers my question, these programs must be save for all, way past myself, and you. Rob

clingingredneck 9 months ago

LOL, But Rob, Mitt is trying to save these two. Obamacare does away with MC and robs a ton of money from Social Security. Please, I'm begging you, do your research. There is a clause in Obamacare that is going to abolish Medicare Advantage and convert medicare into their single payer plan. Then there is another clause that takes money from SS to fund Obamacare. We don't want either one of those things to go away. We want to reform them to cut the waste and fraud while still making sure those who paid into them get back out what the put in.

scoobydob 9 months ago

Your name is quite appropriate and you represent your people exactly as they are. Why is being proud of wallowing in ignorance the number one obseession for you and your peeps and why do you clearly keep making up these numbers up out of no where? Truely amazing! This is a patently false campaign assertion just being regurgitated without any effort to research it on your own and do some real independant thinking. I'm not saying vote for Obama, I'm just saying stop being just another sheeple and lissten to both sides of the issues start thinking and making decisions based on true information and not just rumor and inuendo from the selfserving big money PACS and campaign headquarters.

clingingredneck 9 months ago

Scooby, please take a look at the Washington post article and the Forbes article below. Plus I have read the Affordable Care act. Have you? There are many more things in there that are much scarier than just cutting Medicare. Defend your statements please. How am I not doing my research? The fact checking even supports that fact that what the Obama campaign is spreading from their campaign rhetoric is false.

htt p://www .washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/14/romneys-right-obamacare-cuts-medicare-by-716-billion-heres-how/

htt p://www .forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/08/16/fact-checking-the-obama-campaigns-defense-of-its-716-billion-cut-to-medicare/

Paroquet 9 months ago

The truth, Grace?

The recent catastrophic economic decline got seriously underway the last of Sept-first of Oct, 2008. It bottomed ~6.6k early Mar 2009 (Obama only took office in Jan), by late Sep 2009 it was approaching 10k. It didn't recover to 12k-ish until mid Feb 2011. Started closing on 13k in Feb 2012. Today, it's in the low-mid 13k zone.

Of interesting note, in W's first three years, he nearly halved the DJIA from 11k-ish to ~7.6k from 2000-'03. Early-mid Oct 2007 had highs in the 14k zone, but it tapered from then on until the bottom in Mar 2009.

The truth is, Obama didn't get us into that mes. He got us out.

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

Oh but it does, because it was the FAILED policies of the REPUBLICANS, and the most important failure is TRICKLE DOWN. ROB

clingingredneck 9 months ago

Rob, ps. I DID NOT put your posts up for removal. I would never do that. I believe everyone has a right to express their opinion.

JCLifer 9 months ago

I know people getting SS disability income and who have handicap license plates, but yet they can outrun me and walk all around a mountain to hunt.

asb 9 months ago

So what's their disability? If there is none, then you should make a phone call. But you don't want to snitch. Unreported and unpunished crime, even if only fraud, begets more of the same. While you're calling on that one, try pushing the enforcement of our banking laws and financial protection regulations, if you can find them. Try combing the Cole Co GIS map of taxes, you'll find enought there on your neighbors and local boys to keep you busy all night long.

Littleinvestor 9 months ago

He did not specifically call the elderly freeloaders. But he complained only about the 47 percent of Americans not paying income taxes, making no distinction between the elderly, the working poor or the lazy, and saying all of the 47 percent were dependent victims. I took his broad-brush statement to mean he did not know how that group that does not pay federal income tax breaks out. And he should know. The real "mean" people are others, who are blindly asserting that all Americans should pay income tax. Period. That includes one or two on this site. It is much more complicated than simply saying 47 percent of people do not pay income taxes and they should.

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

Thanks again little investor Mitt continue to show over and over he is out of touch. Rob

RobHunterJohnson 9 months ago

Mexico! you have seen the side that is sanitized, that is the side with the little umbrellas in the drinks! If you think you could get a tax break, you should move there! You are mistaken about Mitt, SS, MC, and Mitt was managable up to the selection of Ryan? Mitt chose him to sinch WI, and I hope that falls short. WIs republicans bit off more than they can chew, and time will tell. Every program needs to be tweeked now, and then. Obamas health plan in is a work in motion, no it is not perfect, but it is the best start yet! SS, MC, will need to be adjusted they need to double the limit on SS for starters, then theywould not be refer to as Golf Money ,or fun money to some. See a few bad apples ruined it for all! They need to kill the Pacs, they have only one agenda theirs, they are not interested in you or me! I cannot believe you think that Mexicos water system is as good as ours? I gave you a classic example of waste from a 2,000 seat stadium. you are intitled to your opinion as well, and you did not remove any of my posts, I just want my message out, and I will continue countering what I do not agree with. Rob

os2hank 8 months, 4 weeks ago

Rob you can not prove that dead people have not vote just like I can not prove they have, BECAUSE there is no way to validate with out have some mean of proving the voter is who they say they are with out a picture id!

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 4 weeks ago

Go back up and read Clinging red necks post above? The only voting problem I can recall was in St Louis, Kit Bond on TV (Kinda Red Faced, maybe his BP?), and alot of people locked in a polling place, and they were very much alive! I asked her to lay it out for all our enquiring minds about the DEAD PEOPLE VOTING, you cannot, and she cannot answer? I do not have to answer! I can see someone passing after filing absentee vote, but not the masses she was refering too! ROB

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 4 weeks ago

os2hank it abou 22 posts above, just trying to help! Rob

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 4 weeks ago

Dead people voting, first I looked on Google. 2005 TN. 2 VOTES in Senate Election, Miami, FL 1997 Mayoral race, 1982 IL. Govenors Race (nothing current). The problem lies in Dead people not being purged from the voter master list, I see no wide spread voting of Dead People like Clinging Red Neck said. It is sad she did not like it right in Jefferson City, because of our Liberal base here. I think she should devote her time to the great state of TN, because they did reveal two Dead Rednecks Voting. One can only wonder if they were voting for a Rebublican, or Democrat? I only looked a couple of minutes, but I think it would been placed right in front of me? I was wondering why anytime you ask a question back to this statement, the answer is NOTHING! kinda like MITT. Rob

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 4 weeks ago

List me some examples, I found 2 in TN in 2005, and a couple of others . The ball is in your court! The answer will once again be nothing. Rob

Souperstar 8 months, 4 weeks ago

Fair Tax. There, income tax system fixed.

tonto_goldberg 8 months, 4 weeks ago

Fair Tax? Not such a good idea.

The whole "fair tax" idea came from a radio show host named Neal Boortz, and development of the supporting Beacon Hill Institute was financed by a group of billionnaires from Houston, Texas. That's the same money source as the Tea Party, by the way. Think about what that means.

The Beacon Hill Instutute is most famous for trying to pass off 'white papers" as "research papers" to people who don't know the difference.

The experts (the ones not on the Fair Tax Program payroll, anyhow) tell us the so-called Fair Tax would fall disproportionately on the young families and the elderly who spend virtually all their income on necessities, which would all be taxed. The so-calle prebate would cover only a portion of the additional tax on their actual living cost, and the bipartisan Advisory Panel on Tax Reform has calculated that a rate of 34% would be required. They also calculated that a person needed to make more than $200,000 per year to come out better under the so-called fair tax.

The IRS is a very small part of the federal budget, and eliminating the IRS won't save the feds a noticeable amount of money. Instead, the plan would pass the compliance requirement down to the states who can't even collect their own sales taxes.

One of many references: factcheck.org/taxes/unspinning_the_fairtax.html

John 8 months, 4 weeks ago

Are you naive enough to think that votes are "backed up against" death roles? When they "catch" one or two of these you can bet your bottom dollar that there are a big bunch of them that do not get caught.

It takes years to get an accurate count of deaths, much less the specifics of who died. Those various computer lists, deaths, births, votes, felons, etc, have never been backed up against each other.

Once again, you are asking for proof that cannot exist except for isolated times when someone has seen the name of a voter and then reported it by saying something like, "that person used to be my neighbor and they died 3 years ago."

You are asking for something that you KNOW cannot be probided simply to show how smart you think you are and wion an arguement instead of truly debating a subject.

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 4 weeks ago

Us Dead votes Google, go check it out? I am for picture ID, I do not see the problem the Republicans are having with this, nor does my computer, so list me all these examples, do they even have a previous example of dead people voting in big blocks ever in the US. I cannot find it, tell me the case you used, died 3 years ago you used to be my neighbor your story has no fact. I tired of the retoric Clinging used back up this page. Show Me! Rob

Crump 8 months, 4 weeks ago

Rob, You need to research a little farthewr into the Richard daley years that the polls were open until 3:00 A.M. and the majority of the late voters lived about a half mile out in Lake Michigan if you vector the cross streets. The dems have done it in st. louis with lacey clay, and will do it again if given the chance. Wake up!

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 4 weeks ago

I was responding to clinging, but seeing I continue to get responce over my post to clinging who has failed to respond. I don't care about Richard Daley, he has been Dead for along time and he is voting some place still I am sure, because the republicans on this page tell me so? I am interested in current era issues, that no one can seem to list, because this Dead Vote is not there to the degree which some on this page insinuate, and continue to promote. Lacey Clay what year, if this was the Kit Bond TV interview tell me about the dead voters? If I remember correctly the voters were at the polls, and they tried to lock them out 7 pm. I think they ended up locking them in, but they were not dead. Let us bring this conversation to missouri, tell me about these dead voters. If there was this much FRAUD it would be all over the front Page of the NT, and I started reading the NT since I returned to JC in 77. Rob

Delbert 8 months, 4 weeks ago

You people sound like a bunch of Rep.& Dem. that run this coutry. No wonder nothing gets done. No matter who wins the middle class loses. If they don't start working together we will never get out of this mess.

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Clinging red neck, story falls apart on another page folks, does she live in TN or Missouri you decide but she claims to work for an health Insurance industry, and I guess Dead people vote in her neck of the woods,Rob

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 4 weeks ago

That is right! We have had a do nothing Congress, that left for parts unknown once again! Only time will tell when the election is over if they have the Gravity of what they created that will start at the first of the year. The Tea party has cut the ham strings on all goverment workings. Romeny is completely clueless as well as Ryan, Canter Walsh, and of course VICKIE HARTZLER. Rob

Sequoia 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Most of the people who don't pay taxes live in states that trend politically conservative. Many of the people who don't pay identify as "conservative."

I thought conservatives are the makers, not the moochers? Anyone got an explanation for this? My take is that the conservative "movement" is full of it. Can you refute that?

Check it:

theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/09/geography-47/3323/

Some quotes from the story:

"The percentage of nonpayers is even more highly correlated with the percent of people identifying as conservative (.63). It was negatively associated with the percentages identifying as moderate (-.60) as well as liberal (-.53).

Nonpayers were also more likely in states with lower wages (-.55) and incomes (-.63), as well as higher levels of unemployment (.47). Nonpayer states were more likely to view economic conditions as "bad" (.37) and "getting worse" (.36). Higher percentages of nonpayers were also associated with lower levels of happiness and well-being (with a correlation of -.36).

Despite Romney's assumption that Americans who don't pay federal income taxes are solidly in the Democratic camp, our quick examination of their political geography tells a much different story. In fact, the states that are home to the highest share of tax non-payers may actually contain the very Republican votes that Romney needs."

tonto_goldberg 8 months, 3 weeks ago

GrumpyGus hit on that earlier, but without statistics. Nice touch with the coefficients of correlation. Those 47 percent people are either too ignorant to know who they are (not to mention any names) or are simply in denial. It's kind of like the 90 percent of people who believe they are "above average".

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Thanks Sequoia! Rob

RobHunterJohnson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Those 47% of the people we are refering to must be the upper half? Sometimes I wonder if a couple of these pollsters are not operatives working for some senator, or congressman. They seem to come and go, use the same political retoric over, and over. Fail to engage, because they have no real plan, but they do get alot of free time. Even though they are to blind to see it? When someone pays 1.9 million in taxes, if you think he has your interest at heart you must mistaken, because this unemployed construction worker, lacking in knowlegde and comprehension sure does understand when he is being lined up for the fleecing. Rob

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