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Today's Poll!Obama’s lease renewed despite tough economic times
President Barack Obama , joined by his wife Michelle, Vice President Joe Biden and his spouse Jill acknowledge applause after Obama delivered his victory speech to supporters gathered in Chicago early Wednesday Nov. 7 2012. Photo by The Associated Press.
Wednesday, November 7, 2012
WASHINGTON (AP) — His lease renewed in trying economic times, President Barack Obama claimed a second term from an incredibly divided electorate and immediately braced for daunting challenges and progress that comes only in fits and starts.
“We have fought our way back and we know in our hearts that for the United States of America, the best is yet to come,” Obama said.
The same voters who gave Obama another four years also elected a divided Congress, re-upping the dynamic that has made it so hard for the president to advance his agenda. Democrats retained control of the Senate; Republicans renewed their majority in the House.
It was a sweet victory for Obama, but nothing like the jubilant celebration of four years earlier, when his hope-and-change election as the nation’s first black president captivated the world. This time, Obama ground out his win with a stay-the-course pitch that essentially boiled down to a plea for more time to make things right and a hope that Congress will be more accommodating than in the past.
The vanquished Republican, Mitt Romney, tried to set a more conciliatory tone on the way off the stage.
“At a time like this, we can’t risk partisan bickering,” Romney said after a campaign filled with it. “Our leaders have to reach across the aisle to do the people’s work.”
House Speaker John Boehner spoke of a dual mandate, saying, “If there is a mandate, it is a mandate for both parties to find common ground and take steps together to help our economy grow and create jobs.”
Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell had a more harsh assessment.
“The voters have not endorsed the failures or excesses of the president’s first term,” McConnell said. “They have simply given him more time to finish the job they asked him to do together” with a balanced Congress.
Obama claimed a commanding electoral mandate — at least 303 electoral votes to 206 for Romney — and had a near-sweep of the nine most hotly contested battleground states.
But the close breakdown in the popular vote showed Americans’ differences over how best to meet the nation’s challenges. With more than 90 percent of precincts reporting, the popular vote went 50 percent for Obama to 48.4 percent for Romney, the businessman-turned-politician who had argued that Obama had failed to turn around the economy and said it was time for a new approach keyed to lower taxes and a less intrusive government.
Obama’s re-election assured certainty on some fronts: His signature health-care overhaul will endure, as will the Wall Street reforms enacted after the economic meltdown. The drawdown of troops in Afghanistan will continue apace. And with an aging Supreme Court, the president is likely to have at least one more nomination to the high court.
The challenges immediately ahead for the 44th president are all too familiar: an economy still baby-stepping its way toward full health, 23 million Americans still out of work or in search of better jobs, civil war in Syria, an ominous standoff over Iran’s nuclear program, and more.
Sharp differences with Republicans in Congress on taxes, spending, deficit reduction, immigration and more await.
And even before Obama gets to his second inaugural on Jan. 20, he must grapple with the threatened “fiscal cliff” — a combination of automatic tax increases and steep across-the-board spending cuts that are set to take effect in January if Washington doesn’t quickly come up with a workaround budget deal. Economists have warned the economy could tip back into recession absent a deal.
Despite long lines at polls in many places, turnout overall looked to be down from four years ago as the president pieced together a winning coalition of women, young people, minorities and lower-income voters that reflected the country’s changing demographics. Obama’s superior ground organization in the battleground states was key to his success.
The president’s victory speech — he’d written a concession, too, just in case — reflected the realities of the rough road ahead.
“By itself the recognition that we have common hopes and dreams won’t end all the gridlock, or solve all our problems or substitute for the painstaking work of building consensus and making the difficult compromises needed to move this country forward,” Obama said.
“But that common bond is where we must begin. Our economy is recovering. A decade of war is ending. A long campaign is now over, and whether I earned your vote or not, I have listened to you, I have learned from you and you have made me a better president.”
The president said he hoped to meet with Romney and discuss how they can work together. They may have battled fiercely, he said, “but it’s only because we love this country deeply.”
Romney’s short concession — with misplaced confidence, he’d only prepared an acceptance speech — was a gracious end note after a grueling campaign.
He wished the president’s family well and told subdued supporters in Boston, “I so wish that I had been able to fulfill your hopes to lead the country in a different direction, but the nation chose another leader and so Ann and I join with you to earnestly pray for him and for this great nation.”
Obama’s re-election was a remarkable achievement given that Americans are anything but enthusiastic about the state they’re in: Only about 4 in 10 voters thought the economy is getting better, just one quarter thought they’re better off financially than four years ago and a little more than half think the country is on the wrong track, exit polls showed.
But even now, four years after George W. Bush left office, voters were more likely to blame Bush than Obama for the fix they’re in.
It wasn’t just the president and Congress who were on the ballot. Voters around the country considered ballot measures on a number of divisive social issues, with Maine and Maryland becoming the first states to approve same-sex marriage by popular vote while Washington state and Colorado legalized recreational use of marijuana.
From the beginning, Obama had an easier path than Romney to the 270 electoral votes needed for victory. The most expensive campaign in history was narrowly targeted at people in nine battleground states that held the key to victory, and the two sides drenched voters there with more than a million ads, the overwhelming share of them negative.
Obama claimed at least seven of the battleground states, most notably Ohio, the Ground Zero of campaign 2012. He also got Iowa, New Hampshire, Colorado, Nevada, Virginia and Wisconsin, and he was ahead in Florida. Romney got North Carolina.
Overall, Obama won 25 states and the District of Columbia and was leading in too-close-to-call Florida. Romney won 24 states.
It was a more measured victory than four years ago, when Obama claimed 365 electoral votes to McCain’s 173, winning with 53 percent of the popular vote.
Obama was judged by 53 percent of voters to be more in touch with people like them. More good news for him: Six in 10 voters said that taxes should be increased. And nearly half of voters said taxes should be increased on income over $250,000, as Obama has called for.
Obama’s list of promises to keep includes many holdovers he was unable to deliver on in his first term: rolling back tax cuts for upper-income people, immigration reform, reducing federal deficits, and more.
A second term is sure to produce turnover in his Cabinet: Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has made it clear he wants to leave at the end of Obama’s first term but is expected to remain in the post until a successor is confirmed. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, Obama’s rival for the presidency four years ago, is ready to leave too. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta isn’t expected to stay on.
To the end, the presidential race was a nail-biter. About 1 in 10 voters said they’d only settled on their presidential choice within the last few days or even on Election Day, and they were closely divided between Obama and Romney. Nearly 1 percent of voters went for Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson, who was on the ballot in 48 states.
In an election offering sharply different views on the role of government, voters ultimately narrowly tilted toward Obama’s approach.
“We have seen growth in the economy,” said 25-year-old Matt Wieczorek, a registered Republican from Cincinnati who backed the president. “Maybe not as fast as we want it to be, but Obama has made a difference and I don’t want to see that growth come to an end.”
Notwithstanding his victory, Obama will lead a nation with plenty of people who were ready for a change.
“The last four years have been crap,” said 73-year-old Marvin Cleveland, a Romney supporter in Roseville, Minn. “Let’s try something else.”
Marry Me
Comments
Graceful 7 months, 1 week ago
The November 6 obits list the USA died at age 233.
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
You be sure and do everything you can to make that true Grace.
Paroquet 7 months, 1 week ago
Grace? Move. Relocate. You still have that freedom, and I hear there are countries that concur with your "conservative" values. Granted, though, you'll need to learn Farsi or Arabic wear a head scarf, and give up any right to own property. Or, you can just buck-up and be content that MO voted for both McCain and Romney.
Nov 6, 2012; America aborts the too-far gone.
BubbaD 7 months, 1 week ago
Victoria, is that you?
Evidently, Grace has a soul sister. Victoria Jackson, the former Saturday Night Live comedian tweeted: "I can't stop crying. America died." and "Thanks a lot Christians, for not showing up. You disgust me."
RobHunterJohnson 7 months, 1 week ago
Elmo, and his pals are safe once again! Dark Romney will have to return to which home, the one in MA, CA, NH, or maybe buy another in UT? ROB
newone 7 months, 1 week ago
Nope I think it will say how it will come alive after being killed in 2007!
MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago
FrightSide Tactics Don't work I told y'all that Facts matter! No Romney/Ryan = Better Furture for the USA and not a new class warfare to make the rich richer. Minorities have got the voting bug and are going to keep voting The Republicans had better get some new ideas or there run is presidential politics is over! Boehner already said he will not work with this President and will not raise taxes when the country has continued to say we need more revenue and need to go back to Clinton Taxes to get the USA economy back on track!!!!
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
FrightSide tactics did work, they've completely hijacked the GOP and locked up the American Congress. Maybe the GOP will kick a few teabaggers out of important posts, replace or re-groove Boehner, and actually do something besides obstruct the public's will. The minority vote will be a bigger brake on the extremist white vote, but participation and reasoned political action will be needed to gain the respect of the non-extreme white voter at lower levels than President.
eileen10 7 months, 1 week ago
Romney didn't congratulate President Obama on his win right away because he was looking for what? A miracle? I felt that was tacky.Sore loser. And the worst thing I'm thinking as far as what Romney believes which pertains to the church is ....how could a white man in a church that is the only true church with the correct beliefs ..how could he lose to the lowly black man? Mark of Cain and all that baloney. President Obama will be okay. I trust him and although he's not perfect, No one is, I feel he'll do his best to make things better for all of us.Now if we could get rid of the tea party....
MsEMS 7 months, 1 week ago
I am glad President Obama is re-elected. I believe we are on the right track for recovery.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
One thing for sure: Obama has inherited a great big mess that the guy running the last four years has made.
Let's see what kind of bi-partisan leadership he can pull out of his hat to fix SEQUESTRATION and pass a budget for this year and next year. He's got less than six weeks to work with a lame-duck congress. Let's see him do some magic now.
The economy is nearing the edge of the cliff, and all the celebrating in the world will not do anything to fix it.
eileen10 7 months, 1 week ago
Lifer..You have been blessed with a mind like a steel trap. Funny yet serious as a heart attack. Your opening statement is but one example. Good. Very, very good. Quick witted. Yep. Your o.k.
Paroquet 7 months, 1 week ago
And Romney's situation would have been different how? He too would be dealing with a divided congress--dems in the senate, reps in the house.
As for the mess Obama inherited, that started a little over eleven years ago. From day one of his first term he was dealing with a train wreck. If I were him, I wouldn't have sought a second term and moved to Belize.
eileen10 7 months, 1 week ago
Hi Paroquet! You know a whole lot more than me but I like to throw my little two cents in. I wouldn't want Pres. Obama's job for love or money. I'm glad he's in the driver's seat though. I'll just tag along and fix a flat tire if needed.
Paroquet 7 months, 1 week ago
Hi Eileen! (That's my Mom's name, btw)
No, I don't know any more than anyone else. I just had a job for a while that involved working with politicians, their lackeys, their lawyers, and their mouth-pieces. Then there were the people their decisions would affect.
"Yo, bud? If you keep up with this, City X is going to have to re-do times-four all of that work in another five years." Response? "So? I'll be retired by then."
Oh, and when it comes to vehicles, brakes are my specialty. Pretty good with alternators and starters too. Couldn't mount or balance a tire to save my life.
eileen10 7 months, 1 week ago
LOL. Be retired by then. That's a good one. Yikes. Kinda scarey. I don't know anything about brakes etc. but I do know how to change a flat tire. If I have a blow out on the highway I prefer to stand outside and look pathetic and some kind person will stop. Reason being is that it takes me forever and I'm not getting younger. I don't run across many people with the name Eileen. So tell your mom hi from Eileen.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
Reminds me of that old 70's song that asks the question what is better than peanut butter on bread: (Come on, Eileen).
eileen10 7 months, 1 week ago
Yep. I remember.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
Romney had demonstrated success working across the aisle in Massechusets to get things done. Obama just seems to polarize people and strengthen hatred, and nothing gets done. That is the difference.
I don't think Romney's magic underwear would help much, though.
BubbaD 7 months, 1 week ago
Working across the aisle? He vetoed and was over-ridden many, many times. He didn't propose or suggest any successful legislation. At best, he co-existed with a dominantly D legislature in Massachusetts.
JMO 7 months, 1 week ago
Stopped logging in a month or so ago because I was tired of all the politics. But I had to do it today, just to skip the article to see the comments. Grace, you didn't disappoint.
cimarron 7 months, 1 week ago
Kind of Trumpish...
JMO 7 months, 1 week ago
Yes, I'll agree with that. :)
newone 7 months, 1 week ago
Found this on the internet this morning and I think it is so very true:
Question to Republicans: if the economy recovers significantly in these next four years and we make progress on the deficit, will some measure of credit be given to President Obama?
Question to Democrats: if those things happen, will credit be shared with the Republican leadership that you surely will have to work with to accomplish anything?
Both of these answers need to be yes for this country to move forward.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
Also, if things keep going bad, can we please stop blaming Bush?
newone 7 months, 1 week ago
Absolutely, Bush took his 8 years and ran this country into the ground now give Obama 8 years to get it out, if he doesn't then that is on Obama, that will be 100% Obama's fault and I will never blame Bush again.
Both parties need to work together, they need to stop trying to screw the other and bring this country back to what it use to be, to what it can be. I think the Republicans have been h*ll bent on seeing Obama fail that they are willing to do anything to screw things up and same with the Democrats and that is sad, that is NOT how this country should be ran, they should work together for the people of this country, that is what they are all put in office to do and both have failed us, now let’s get things back on track, work together and get this country up and running again!
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
The problem is, Obama has perfected Bush's mistakes of tax, borrow, and spend. Bush says he was doing it to get us out of the 9/11 aftermath, Obama says he is doing it to get us out of the Bush aftermath. Both have killed the economy in the long term. Working together is a warm and fuzzy description of what we would like to see, but the reality is much harder and there is only one side of the aisle who is talking about the only viable solution. That is there is only one fix...stop spending more than we bring in. Set a budget (Senate), cut waste, prioritize spending, pay off the debt...that is the only solution. As much as you like to blame Bush, Obama has perfected Bush's mistakes to the tune of $6 trillion in new debt over 4 years.
Paroquet 7 months, 1 week ago
Only if they go bad differently. If they follow the same tack he initiated, it's still his course the ship is sailing. He started plenty, and didn't finish anything.
Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago
I've enjoyed the gloom-and-doom tweets and posts and whatnot, the sweet sound of ideology crashing onto the rock of reality, but now it's time to get down to business.
I'm glad to see that the United States was able to hold an election that seemed to comply with the same standards to which we hold third-world countries. The people got their voice heard, and that's always a good thing.
The country is not dying. It is changing, like the rest of the world. Only those invested in a rigid, fundamentalist idea of what reality "should be" see death in the face of change. Those who love life are flexible and adapt.
Liberals will have plenty of big ideas. We need a rigorous conservatism that asks tough questions: How much is that going to cost? Is that really going to work?
The conservative "movement" has failed in this task by manufacturing a narrative that tries to fit together policy that favors the rich with the vocabulary of religious fundamentalism. This is a problem for conservatism for a couple reasons.
One, it rings false. People just aren't buying it. Look at how people responded to the whole Christian conservative song and dance Akin put out: Missouri went for Romney, and those voters rejected Akin. Republicans like Coulter ripped Akin not for holding wrong views, but for not papering over his extremism more carefully. Older white men may buy into Fox's ploy (wrinkly old dudes paired with hot blonds, who are like those snotty girls in high school, and you both hate the same people), but not increasinly media-saavy young people. We can see the manufacturing process. We're not buying in.
All your big money superpacs DIDN'T DO SQUAT. You can't buy us off. This, to me, is the most inspiring thing about this election.
Moreover, the spectacle of consistently pushing a false narrative drags down the party's credibility. It can't fill its role of carefully testing proposed government action if 99 percent of everything you say is a manufactured talking point. You can't credibly criticize the ACA if you've just spent the past month talking about socialism and death panels.
The problem with ideological movements is that you spend too much time pointing fingers at people who don't belong (gays, blacks, immigrants, feminists, liberals, atheists, etc.) and not enough time persuading those people to agree with you. As you can see, it doesn't work. People are not "-ists" and "-isms." They are people you can talk to, if you stop being afraid of change.
Some of us are trying to point a new way for conservatives, but the movement won't listen. They just call us liberal.
One of these days, conservatives will get tired of losing, and listen to the people.
Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago
And look, if you're a consumer of conservative media, you need to ask yourself whether you're being well served.
Fox News, Bill Kristol, Karl Rove, the talk show hosts: these are the people who said we needed to invade Iraq, that Sarah Palin was qualified to be president, that Obama is either a fool or a socialist, and that Romney would win in a landslide.
They are consistently, spectacularly wrong.
If all you care about is having your beliefs relfected back to you by people on television, being wrong never matters. All that matters is that feeling you get in the moment whenever Rush is in his rant and you're all like, "right on!" and ordering the next book for $29.99 plus shipping and handling.
But if you care about succeeding in a meritocracy, getting it right is all that matters.
Demand more of your media.
theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/how-conservative-media-lost-to-the-msm-and-failed-the-rank-and-file/264855/
xhepera 7 months, 1 week ago
Sequoia, it's always a pleasure to read your sane, reasoned postings in these fora. I'm one of those in-between types; many of my conservative friends call me liberal, while many of my liberal friends consider me too conservative for comfort.
I miss the Republican party of old. I miss the reasoned, intelligent conservatives that I knew before the movement was hijacked by self-centered ideologues who most definitely do not have this country's best interests in mind.
In a hotbed of right-wing (not truly conservative, but merely right-wing) blathering, I find your words and thoughts refreshing. And I hope the conservative movement gets a clue from folks like you. Otherwise it's doomed. In my opinion that would be a tragedy. We need both sides of the coin to make this country work.
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
Agreed, well said big red tree, very well said.
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
I would buy your argument if I wasn't looking at an ostensibly red county by county vote map. The popular vote was roughly 50/50. Its a simple matter of large electoral college states having population centers with a massive dependent underclass going to the polls to vote for those who promise to keep the checks rolling in, keeping them dependent.
The idea that conservatives are the ones who divide people into groups of -ists and -isms is an outright lie. Conservatives see the value of each individual. Liberals unionize, community organize, set up minority caucases, and set groups against one another for political advantage. They also created the underclass for their political advantage.
That is why the subjugation of the poor by socialist type politicians is so immoral, and is the reason that Obama won. He has climbed to the top by crawling over slaves to the government.
At some point the money will run out...what happens then?
Paroquet 7 months, 1 week ago
Wowzers. Let's see; liberals protect the workers, unite a community, see to it all are included.
Conservatives espouse hate, want their nose in all of your business, and eschew things like the Freedom Of Information Act.
And Gus? Remember when Gore won the presidential election and Bush took office, then subsequently wrecked the economy?
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
Hate? How can wanting those subjugated by the boot of government to experience the freedom of gainful employment and participation in an expanded middle class be hateful? I don't give a hoot about your business, unless your business begins to encroach upon mine. Lets try again, Bush was a tax, borrow, spender just like Obama. Bush's excuse, 9/11. Obama's excuse, Bush. Revisionist history that erases any mention of 9/11 and that fact that Bush dealt with it is a slap in the face of those that died. Obama has perfected the mistakes that Bush made. Its going to get worse, but of course now it will be Congressional Republicans' fault right. Zero accountability with Obama.
RobHunterJohnson 7 months, 1 week ago
Gus, you want to fix this, good jobs, they don't have to be Union jobs, just JOBS with health care, retirement, and a wage that makes a living not a struggle? Rob
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
How do you do this when you give private industry the promise of increased cost through taxation and onerous regulation? Cripes! That was the entire argument this election. The government can't create jobs, only the environment in which private industry wants to expand. Now private industry is contracting, and will continue to do so. There is a reason every chamber of commerce in the country backed Romney. They want to expand their business, but not at a loss! They are in business to make money, not give people jobs. Jobs are the by-product not the goal. Please tell me you understand this basic business principle.
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
Oh Gus, you're singing their songs! The highest profits are being taxed the least! That's an oversimplification but accurate enough for the discussion. Onerous regulations? Find a specific regulation, learn it's details and where it came from. See if it's being enforced fairly. If there's an issue, Fix it! Regulations are the core of how we protect ourselves from abuse. It's how you can usually trust your water, your bank, your workplace safety. Of course they age and need examination and adjustment, but to blame regulations as the source of industry woe is propaganda from Koch and the high profit boys. You cannot be that gullible or they'll sell you some really bad stuff and tell you it's great, and you'll believe them. They want the least interference and highest profits they can get. Believe it or not, I'm good with that, it's how business works. But the rest of us, nearly all of us, work there, eat it, buy it, use it. We need authoritative controls on their nature just as we do on our own. You are not rich. You are not a victim of regulation. But, you DO pay more taxes than the top boys and they've convinced you it's cool.
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
They invested money that was already taxed once. Why should we tax it again at conficatory rates? To redistribute it right? Why would they continue to invest and create jobs if they are just going to be slapped again? It goes against basic human nature, unless you are Tina Turner. The cost of everything they do is going up, it eats profit. So I understand the contraction of private industry. Punishment extinguishes behavior...
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
Another Koch lyric. "Everybody else has to pay taxes on money that's already taxed, but I don't want to." If money makes money, it needs to be taxed. Capital Gains is nothing but profit from "work" and needs to be taxed just as much as my wages do.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
Are you advocating for a value added tax like Canada has? That is a whole lot like the Fair Tax.
JMO 7 months, 1 week ago
I'll happily admit if I'm wrong...but it's my understanding that the investment - the original money - isn't taxed again, they tax the income from it. I don't know about you, but I claim my interest from my checking and savings accounts on my taxes and I pay the same tax rate on it as I do my salary. So why is income from an investment different?
RobHunterJohnson 7 months, 1 week ago
Gus, we started to go down hill with Reagans Union busting, that is also where the Debt you are refering to started, I was an NRA child of 23 with the 2nd presidential vote 2/Rs and 1/B, trickledown does not work then, and it won't now! The Rich have sat on the money for the last 4 years! Why give them more through Tax Breaks? I cannot even make a 1% on a CD, 1/2 is in stock/MF, and 1/2 is in a MM waiting to go somewhere? If you are on SS, that was my biggest problem for the past 2 years Ryans Plan? Everything they have offererd has been VOID to how, or not acceptable to me: an obviously to alot of others. I have a short fixed pension18 years worth, an annuity that is short $6,000 from what ever bush 2 did, and SS,when I retire less than 6 years from now at 62! Things are not great, but they are not going backwards, yet! the republican party needs to drop the word No from their vocabulary. To get out of this they need to raise Taxes! Cut Spending! something they just cannot grasp, at least for the last 2 years for sure! I am sure there are democrats that would help them if they would come to the table? The biggest cuts will be to defense, so thats a nice start if they cannot figure it out? Rob
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
" . . . unless your business begins to encroach on mine." Thanks to regulations, that is avoidable. Oh, well we could bring them back. Not paying for Bush's valid excuse for the one war isn't a slap in the soldiers' faces, it's at you. A President can only propose a budget. It's Congress' job to do it. They won't. Who else would you blame? Obama not being able to talk sense into a Teabagger congress is sure not his fault. As long as you label the unemployed and the poor as subjugants, and the government as using a boot to keep them down, without noticing who really keeps the poor down, you lose credibility. Hateful is your rhetorical and facist labeling, which you've picked up from FOX 'n Fiends. You show too much wisdom to have come to these labels rationally.
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
I appreciate how you won't refute the idea that Obama is Bush on steroids when it comes to tax, borrow, spend. The practice is the problem, not the solution.
Actually I always liked the word subjugation as opposed to slavery because slavery has such a race based historical taint to it in the U.S. The subjugation of the poor by the government in the U.S. crosses all demographic boundaries, so brining race into it is meaningless. I have no ability to keep anyone down. Only like ideas that can help them lift themselves up.
I pity the able bodied souls who are on public assistance. The despair of having your spirit crushed, thinking there is no way out of the mess. Feeling so beaten down by your dependence. Looking around and not being able to find a good job because your local government has taxed all the good employers away, and then blamed the companies for leaving. They are trapped, and will continue to be so if they keep doing the same thing at the ballot box. Most of the crumbling cities in the U.S. have been under democrat control for half a century. What a waste of great human potential.
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
Obama hasn't blown out the budget anywhere near as much as Bush. And you're saying the government is subjugating the poor? Why? It's conspiracy goofy to hear this coming from a usually thoughtful person. How could the government actively subjugate millions wiithout leaving true forensics rather than just a paranoid's suspicions? Blaming the government for deliberately arranging the state of the poor (true subjugaion) is like flat earth or fake moon landing stuff. Accidental subjugation doesn't exist. That would be mis-management.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
"Obama hasn't blown out the budget anywhere near as much as Bush."
SIX TRILLION DOLLARS!!!
Are you on crack?
jcguy25 7 months, 1 week ago
Which included the wars and stimulus Bush put on credit.
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
Again, you don't understand human psychology. If you want to ensure a continued response you reward it, but not too much because then the expectation of higher reward becomes ingrained. Once the desired behavior is ingrained, change becomes nearly impossible. In every day life, most people fear change, even those with some level of control (e.g. a job, transportation, etc.). Those who grew up with a dependent parent, know no other way. The check comes in the mail, and you are sustained another month. But your never grow as a person or citizen, you never know the joys of a job and the freedom it brings. It is a sad state, and yes I do believe there is concerted effort to keep it that way. Obama himself said that the dependent class was one of the Democrats most effective constituencies. It is not accidental, but there is no way to change it unless people are willing to admit it is happening.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
The underemployed also have crushed spirits. They years of proven experience and years of expensive education all seem like such a waste , but because of a horrible economy that is out of their control, and having to compete with the other folks unemployed and underemployed for the few available scr*ps, they are supposed to hope for change.
Sharp minds and able bodies are terrible things to waste.
Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago
The idea that everyone who voted for Obama is an "underclass" voting for "handouts" is exactly what I'm talking about.
For one thing, it is not true. I've posted on here before the charts showing that, in fact, the majority of welfare recipients live in states that went for Romney.
Also, your language completely shuts off any discussion with all those people you just insulted for no good reason (other than just because you lost and your feelings are hurt and you're looking for any other explanation besides the obvious one: these ideas are no good).
In case you didn't watch TV last night, the majority of this country rejected this fast-food, talk-show shock-jock insult thinking.
Read the tea leaves, dude: it's over.
Gus, right now some conservatives are going to sit down and start thinking of conservative policies and critiques that will address the real, 21st century America we live in today, a conservatism that can have a conversation with someone who doesn't ALREADY AGREE WITH YOU... as opposed to manufacturing advertisements designed to sell bad policy warmed over from 1980.
Again, the reason you speak in a language of attack and conflict is because you consume media that manufactures those narratives in order to keep you tuned in because OMG YOU CAN'T STOP WATCHING BECAUSE WE'LL TELL YOU HOW THE LIBERALS ARE COMING TO TURN YOUR KIDS LIBERAL!!!!
You don't know any other language with which to express conservatism. That's the problem I've been going on about for the past year or so.
Some will adapt to the times and seek the light, others will stay rigid and perish.
I guess it is fitting I close with the words of Rush (the band, not the blowhard): "Those who chose not to decide still have made a choice!" (drum fill)
Rock on!!!!
RobHunterJohnson 7 months, 1 week ago
GRUMPY, I HOPED YOU HAVE ENJOYED ALL THE HOLIDAYS SO FAR? THE UNiON BROUGHT YOU ALL BUT CHRISTMAS, AND THANKSGIVING, the weekend, 40 hour week, vacation , health care, retirement, and for some the ability to speak out! The business ran shops with 10 hr days 5 days a week, 1/2 a day on Saturday, no benefits, 2 holidays? If wanting to better ones self in the job place is refererd to as LIBERAL you are mistaken. One person speaks up, and guess what he's fired! If a group speaks up, the business might listen? What you take for ganted was not the norm not to long ago. If you are retired oh, how you have forgot, even Nixons giving the State Employees Black Friday. The extra holiday they deserved, and now they need a good raise to help their struggle. Rob
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
"At some point the money will run out...what happens then?"
They will print more.... leading to..... INFLATION!!!
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
Inflation, only if the supply grows too fast. Growth controls and revenue increases can eliminate the need for such nonsense.
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
Without growth, how do you increase revenue to the government? We already spend more than we bring in, lets increase the tax base!
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
And growth in economic downturns is often the job of government stimulus, which can involve debt. Reasonable debt. Ours is on the edge of unreasonable so massive debt payment needs to take place, and I'm in agreement with you on the need for growth. As the arguement is going in Ireland and Greece . . . Austerity? fine. As long as EVERYBODY gets to suffer. The inept job creators as well as the unemployed. If you cut much more from the US budget, you have strikes and demonstrations, not by lazy mooches, but by the working and want-to-be-working. When the immense profits of the CEOs and stockholders is taxed as much as my work, fine, cut back on some services, like missles, toilets, new weapons, roads, airports. You name it, but everybody pays Gus, everybody. Or war. (Grace just had a stroke).
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
Inept job creators? Can tell you have never sacrificed and rolled the dice to start a business. If the company is losing money, is it OK for the owner to cut pay across the board? Or does only the owner have to suffer? The employees typically don't share the risk, only the reward. Shared misery is your creed...nice.
Littleinvestor 7 months, 1 week ago
Gus, I pay capital gains taxes every year and have enjoyed the lower tax rates. The principal I invested is not taxed; what it earns is taxed. That is not double taxation I can survive a higher tax rate on capital gains. Double does occur when corporate profits are paid out in salaries and dividends, and that income is taxed again as salaries or capital gains on stocks/partnership earnings. There could be something done to address that in the new tax code we desperately need to have passed by Congress. I do not think earnings for hedge fund managers should be taxed as capital gains (low) rather than ordinary income (rate dependent on what tax bracket the recipient is in.) Same with stock deals some CEOs are given instead of salary. They should be taxed as salary. At least in my opinion.
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
Most businesses fail Gus. The owners that make it do a lot better than their workers. Those that don't can try again, and yes, shared risk, reward, and misery are fair rules to live by.
3633 7 months, 1 week ago
Enough with the doom and gloom, President Obama was relected and it is time to move on,also in regards to Gus's comments; some people were dependent on the government way before President Obama was even born. So, lets just move on and do what we need to do to get it right. If you don't ever try to do anything you never will know what will happen if you didn't try. So let's all just try!!
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
Trying things that are proven by history to fail wherever and whenever tried is not my cup of tea. Agreed on the dependency. It was started by FDR and more and more are on the dole every day. It has accelerated under Obama...that is undeniable.
Do what we need to do...that is the fundamental disagreement. As a Republican I want a budget, spending priorities, cutting waste, and paying down the debt. For G-d sake stop spending more than we are bringing in!
I will meet you half way and say "go nuts with your liberal domestic agenda", just meet me half way and agree to my version of fiscal restraint.
I will wait for any Democrat to join me...crickets.
asb 7 months, 1 week ago
No crickets, but it's hard to respond to insults and labeling. I'll meet you half way, but neither of us have a real say in this. Pass a budget, adjust spending and taxes (down and up respectively), and keep cutting waste (our primary responsibility as citizens is to see it, yell it, and unelect the unresponsive. But namecalling, labeling and rhetoric are not waste watching. It isn't your version of fiscal restraint, it's the standard fiscal approach of any government in bad economic times. I will remind you again that the "things proven wrong by history" are actually proven right by 2,000 years of western economic growth.
tonto_goldberg 7 months, 1 week ago
I can't help you with getting a Democrat on board, but as someone who deeply distrusts both party organizations I agree. We need a budget in multi-year form. Right now we have - what? - continuing spending resolutions or something like that to keep the doors open and the lights on for a few months at a time. A budget should represent an agreement on our priorities and once adopted it would remind us of those priorities.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
How about a legislature that meets bi-annually and is required to pass a bi-annual budget each time? This would really work well on the state level. i believe Montana already works this way.
GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago
Peace all...gotta cook some vittles for the goobs. Lefties, enjoy your victory. Pray for the country...and I hope I'm wrong in my doom and gloom (but I'm not :P
Paroquet 7 months, 1 week ago
See you in four, Gus. And I'll hope you are wrong too. And don't say you're not, because you could be. If I were you? I'd want to be wrong.
RobHunterJohnson 7 months, 1 week ago
Sat with my mom yesterday checking, and going over her vitals. The entire time her tv is tuned to a very loud Fox, and I took the time to listen to the pulse of Fox, and about half us are in trouble? Gus was the rich guy buying, or selling yesterday? Rob
lulu 7 months, 1 week ago
This country is going down the toilet. I hope all you people are PROUD!! And no, I'm not moving to another country - this is MY country...well, at least until we sell out to another country and people, we're well on our way.
Unbelievable!!!!
newone 7 months, 1 week ago
I am VERY proud that this country voted to keep the party out that started this mess in the first place, now suck it up and let the man do his job by continuing to dig us out of the mess he inherited.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
Obama just keeps digging the hole deeper. We are now at $6,000.000.000.000.00 in debt. Obama's budget proposal that not even one democrat could get behind, put us at $20,000,000,000,000.00 in debt by the end of his second term. We don't need that!
Congress needs to take his shovel away until he learns to dig in the other direction.
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
The electorate (well, 47% of them) want the freebies to keep coming. How do you propose we deliver? We cannot borrow forever. Where do you think it comes from? It comes from the backs of the working people. I applaud Republicans who drag their feet and obstruct things like Obama's last budget proposal that would put us in debt $20 trillion in the next four years.
We need solutions, not this kind of bs.
Paroquet 7 months, 1 week ago
What? You mean like the record number of signing statements by Shrub, and the record of fillibusters by the Republicant's?
Cirkey! They already proved that not only can they run the country into the ground, they will do whatever they can to keep it from recovering.
Brilliant track record.
billyray111 7 months, 1 week ago
I am niether happy nor sad about the election results(I did not like any of the candidates). But after studing the history of the USA just a little I have come up with a few predictions,I do not know if they will be right or wrong but here it goes. I believe that the value of the dollar versus the forgein currencey markets will fall even further and that the price of gold will increase bringing the price of oil up with it. When that happens the price of fuel with follow the price of oil. Because oil effects the price of almost everything, inflation will start to rise and when that happens the goverment will raise interest rates to combat that ( remember the Carter years). People always say that history repeats itself, I wonder if that will hold true in this case.
RobHunterJohnson 7 months, 1 week ago
They were really the Nixon Years, Inflation from 68 on, no gas on Sundays, price and wage freezes? I didn't like Carter either, he should have HIT the iranians HARD back in 79. Rob
JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago
Nixon's inflation looked like a cakewalk compared to what we have here. i can recall when the media was crying that gas might top $1 a gallon. Oh, that we could have some of Nixon's economy now...
RobHunterJohnson 7 months, 1 week ago
We were going to run out of oil before the end of the 70s? The Arab oil embargo was the wake up call, we have been hitting the snooze since! Nixon gave us no Gas sales Sundays, the 55mph speed limit, Which was just a money maker for all the states through tickets, and the price of a Suzie Q went from .08 cents to a buck! Cigarettes went from .19 cents to .75, and gas went from .35 full serve ethel to self serve reg with lead at .75 cents, then Carter deregulated it? Gas made a dollar here as I recall over in Cedar City, in 81-82 That would
have been Reagan? H_S conners first post was 4 months 3 weeks ago,hkchas, called it: "sigh---not really, it just seems like another conservative rant... in two parts", and he was refering to conners first post which was of GROUP "inducts " pig into the hall of famous missourians. I to think he was a paid poster, it seems he said he lived west, and then I caught callaway co? In the last 2 days of his rant he had 40 strikes by the NT? I thought I saw where hkchas posted about 2 weeks ago on Akin? Rob
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