Mo. lawmaker wants stores closed for Thanksgiving

wow 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Yoooooooo "House member Jeff Roorda, of Barnhart" go back to Barnhart and enjoy your family if you want...but leave the buisness people alone. Ya wanna help somebody..tell the your folks to get us out of these Wars and then we can get all those military people home with their families..how abou that.

This "Family Protection Act " stunt you're trying is just that..."A STUNT" that I hope will fail miserably. In an era where jobs are the key thing...you are trying to hinder that and frankly I don't understand why. I'm not buying this "want to help build the Amnerican family" shannnnagan. If ya really want to help....here's how...stop thinkiing and pushing this type of "waste time idea" or get out of office and let somebody else handled the job.

newone 5 months, 2 weeks ago

You obviously didn't have family who had to leave thier Thanksgiving dinner to work!! I had three family members who had to leave because they had to work, Christmas and Thanksgiving are the only two days a year that all of my family is able to get together and spend time with each other and this Black Friday crud is getting earlier and earlier and it's not right, this country has become so greeding it makes me so angry. Let people have time with thier family!!!

bluesfan13 5 months, 2 weeks ago

So these kids who are working on their MEDICAL degrees are planning on being able to take off on Thanksgiving after they graduate???

stop1 5 months, 2 weeks ago

It is NOT the governments job to make sure you eat dinner with your family

RobHunterJohnson 5 months, 2 weeks ago

I did not participate until Friday morning 8 am, but if you can lighten the amount of rush of people by starting at 8 pm what is the hurt, just more time to shop until you drop, more people spending money, more taxes, more Chinese Jobs! rob

spelchek 5 months, 2 weeks ago

"more Chinese Jobs" -- Thanks unions.

asb 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Right, the unions are shipping jobs to china. How misinformed can you get Spel? You're saying that American wages, which have fallen compared to GDP over the past 20-30 year due to Corporate domination of government, are why American businesses are shipping their labor costs overseas? Try this perspective instead. Whenever there's trade, and a polar pay grade between trade partners, you get job shipping. There's a balance between trade, which is critical to any economy, and fair wages. We should be organizing the chinese workers, not blaming ours. Use your head. And yes, the ultimate capitalist nation organizing a socialist workforce is clearly a work of major irony, but if we don't, we'll all be working at WalMart, either here or in China, and only the owners of WalMart will benefit. International examination of FoxConn is helping the Chinese workforce, and needs to grow to their entire production sector.

Littleinvestor 5 months, 2 weeks ago

No need for legislation. If the public truly does not want stores to force minimum wage workers to work on Thanksgiving, they just have to stop going to those stores on Thanksgiving, no matter how great the sale is. Public pressure can stop the nonsense by mass retailers. My guess is the public will do nothing but fall for the tricks and continue to shop on Thanksgiving. We also refuse to shop on Black Friday and did not hit the stores until Saturday. We did not want to buy cheap goods, no matter how great the price. If you think first-line goods are used in those super sales, you are mistaken. A $98 TV is going to be a piece of junk.

LaTda 5 months, 2 weeks ago

I agree with if the public doesn't want these stores open on Holidays, than we should stop attending. But, it is my choice to purchase the $98 piece of junk. To me its not a piece of junk. It will most likely work just like the more expensieve ones...as I know for a fact...I have had a TV for 5 years that I purchased on a SUPER SALE of equivilent stature and it is working just fine. Why pay full price if you don't have to?

MO4LIFE 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Got one 3 years ago and it works just fine still to this day

stop1 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Our Government is OUT of control

JCLifer 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Please note that this is a democrat lawmaker who is trying to grow Big Government and give Government more control over our lives.

I don't shop on Black Friday, and I sure don't need a law to keep me from doing so. if more customers refused to shop on Black Friday, and if more employees would refuse to work on Black Friday, then the stores probably would not choose to be open.

asb 5 months, 2 weeks ago

This is more like the moralising religious conservatives wanting to control peoples' lives with law than a big government democrat action. When I saw who it was though I wasn't surprised. He's actually a republican by nature, and will either switch parties or lose his next primary. His bill is a foolish government-in-our-private-lives stunt and will fail, even in our red state. Employees with no leverage cannot "choose" when to work but for the long-term influence of the labor movement. The so-called Free Market only applies to the makers, remember? Workers without organization earn less and less, and lose rights as fast as a CEO can put together a profit Powerpoint. Go home Roorda.

newone 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Yeah because telling your employer that you REFUSE to come into work is going to go over so well!! Some people need thier jobs!

JCLifer 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Then you must not be a very good employee to be that replaceable. You should develop your skills and knowledge so that your employer really values you and would do most anything to retain you. If you are just another warm body filling a slot and not adding much value, of course you will be replaced.

Sequoia 5 months, 2 weeks ago

In the service industry, every worker is "just another warm body filling a slot." What "skill and knowledge," praytell, is a cashier going to "develop" that will give them leverage to refuse to work? I think you're being a little naive about the working world, Lifer. This is the real world, dude, not a hypothetical from an econ textbook. Even the best workers get stuck on permanent part time, so the companies don't have to pay benefits and the workers are begging for more hours.

I seriously doubt Target is asking their executives to work on Thanksgiving. They're probably getting an extra bonus paid for by those extra store hours the cashires have to work on Thanksgiving.

Some people act like the only threat to our values and traditions come from government over-reach. The point I always try to make on here is that private sector over-reach is just as dehumanizing and destructive. Any human value that can't be commoditized and sold (like holiday time with your family) has no value in the private market.

If we focus all our attention on reducing the government's role in the market, we don't neccesarily get more freedom... we just open ourselves up for more exploitation by large private sector actors that care only about profits for a few, not quality of life for the rest of us.

I'm always suspicious of those who cry "tyranny" every time the government takes action, but they are silent in the face of tyranny and exploitation by the private sector. They complain about the government encroaching on traditions and values, but they are silent when private actors do so. Why?

Of course, when you understand that the conservative "movement" is manufactured by large corporate interests to protect their power (to exploit us and bleed us dry) against the power of the government to promote the general welfare of the citizens, it makes more sense.

As a true conservative, I'm skeptical of all concentrated power. I'm not a "consumer." I'm a citizen and an individual human being.

JCLifer 5 months, 2 weeks ago

If that is the way it is, then learn to live with it or change yourself.

Yeah, the big evil employer is holding a gun to the employees' throat and making them work.

This is just another illustration of the left who want everyone to be a victim of some big evil entity, and the right who work toward personal responsibility.

You don't like your job, then get some training and skills to get a different one. You don't like the economy? Quit voting in tax and spend spend spend leftists who are destroying our economy.

It makes me laugh to hear no-skill, dime-a-dozen workers whining because they have to comply with their employer's requests to keep their job. If they were valuable and indespensible to the employer, they would have some leverage. If they bring nothing to the table, then they have to eat the leftovers or else go hungry.

Sequoia 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Well, not everybody can be an executive. That's what a meritocracy is. Just because you work as hard and as well as you can doesn't mean you get a reward. You just might not be good or lucky enough. There are only a few brass rings to go around.

The question is: How much power do we concede to private industry to exploit the lowest-rung workers? Your idea of "work harder or go hungry" would preclude minimum wage laws, as well as other laws to regulate the workday, child labor, and workplace safety. We set limits on requests employers can make of their employees, which benefits the society and economy as a whole.

Your self-serving distinction between "being a victim" and "personal responsibility" doesn't really cut it, because we're already talking about people taking personal responsibility and working hard. The real question is" "What is the the worst working condition we're willing to tolerate?"

I'm not saying the line should be drawn at "working on Thanksgiving." I'm not presuaded we need the legislation in question. Lot of people have to work on Thanksgiving... doctors, nurses, etc. Funny to me that some of y'all suckers think that it is just as important to leave the holiday table to go chase scams (you think you're getting a good deal on Black Friday? Sucker... theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/11-simple-economic-lessons-to-make-you-a-smarter-shopper-on-black-friday/265449/)

Let's just not pretend that the absence of government regulation equals more freedom for the individual. Let's also not pretend that any abuse of corporate power can be remedied by every individual living out some Horatio Alger fairy tale. We celebrate those who pull themselves up by their bootstraps because it is a rare triumph. We know that not everyone can be winners... the question is, what will be the fate of the losers, who are our friends and family?

JCLifer 5 months, 2 weeks ago

They don't get to purchase $89 TVs, and they have to work on Thanksgiving instead of spending it with their evil in-laws or their "funny" Uncle Roy. Do they really need government laws and protection from such tyranny as being required to work on Thanksgiving (and get paid for it- probably at double-time pay)?

Sequoia 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Oh, I agree about this law in particular. I don't believe that "working on Thanksgiving" constitutes exploitation sufficient to require legislation.

This guy's just trying to get his name in the paper. This bill will never make it out of committee.

JCLifer 5 months, 2 weeks ago

I would hope it doesn't. Seems to be a bill that would cause government to unnessecarily interfere / restrict commerce.

RobHunterJohnson 5 months, 2 weeks ago

If employees and I mean a majority told the employer NO? Rob

spelchek 5 months, 2 weeks ago

I'll listen to this idea more when legislators vote to not give themselves raises.

Sequoia 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Just to correct some confusion, this law would prohibit stores from opening on Thanksgiving. That's Thursday. This law doesn't have anything to do with Black Friday, which is the day AFTER Thanksgiving.

So, even if this law passes, you'll still be able to shop on Black Friday. You won't be "punished" by not being able to buy your $100 TV a few hours earlier. Sheesh. You'll be OK.

I can't say I support this legislation, but I think it is a shame that we even need to discuss regulation like this. Private companies ought to be more respectful of people's values and traditions. Workers don't have a choice, but shoppers do.

whocares 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Apparently you missed the fact that stores were open on Thursday and started their "Black Friday" sales as early as 8 pm on Thursday.

newone 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Thank you Sequoia, well said!

BeardBear 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Ah, Thanksgiving, the day we give thanks for the good things we have.....Also the day we punch faces for toys and TVs.

newone 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Exactly! That is what our country has come to which is so sad.

LaTda 5 months, 2 weeks ago

I apologize if any of my comments have upset anyone. I understand that Holidays are for family. I spend the Holidays with my family. But if there is a store open that allows me to buy products at a discounted price I will shop them when I am finished spending time with my family. If the stores choose not to be open, than I fine with it. It won't bother me that much. I can wait until they open.

RobHunterJohnson 5 months, 2 weeks ago

You have not upset me! I went to walmart in a 5am wave once, and never again! To the Republicans on this page that is capitalism at its best. Fighting to get a Chinese Bicycle, or a Chinese Ipod? Bring the jobs back home so more people can afford to go out on Black Thursday to Friday, remember that good old Walmart is going to cut back once again on hours, to help all those employees with the new insurance program, coming in the next year or so. The only way out of this Debt problem is to develop GOOD JOBS, with HEALTH CARE , and RETIREMENT. Did the Walmart employees get time and half on Thanksgiving? I don't think we should work on Labor day, because that is a Holiday set aside for the working class? Rob

JCLifer 5 months, 2 weeks ago

ObamaCare is going to encourage Walmart to cut work hours to less than 30 hours a week.

I wouldn't know what all the fuss about Black Friday is, since I do all my Christmas shopping online. I can get exactly what I want at the cheapest price possible, and I avoid dealing with rude and ignorant sales clerks.

Paroquet 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Hey, um, Walmart has been in that practice for a long time now. They dodge overtime requirements by giving someone the title of "associate". Those rude and ignorant sales "associates"? A lot of them are temps and don't give two spits more about you than you do them. Why are they ignorant? Because they're new to the job, and ain't going to be retained long enough for it to matter to them to learn. As for rude? They have to deal with HUNDREDS of rude and ignorant shoppers who feel somehow "entitled" or "special".

My Christmas shopping is done by August, my craft gifts can take up until Dec. 23rd depending upon my ratio of ambition to motivation.

connor 5 months, 2 weeks ago

You're correct several big companies have routinely hired more part time (Under 30 hour) employees off and on over the years. Sometimes the size of the company balanced with the pay rate and taxes has worked to tip the scales between it being more profitable for a company to hire 30 and below or 40 and above. It has actually varied over the years. The last few years have really been an employers utopia because of the massive numbers of actual wannabe employees with a working brain stem who will take low pay jobs.

However Obama-Care is certainly tipping the attractiveness of temps and part time employees over full time ones even more. I actually prefer to work temp or part time myself with my farm and all so that aspect of things is attractive to me. Now if the unemployment numbers would just fall there might actually be enough job openings to make that aspect possible.

The real point is what works for me personally is not what works for everyone as a whole. Your average private employees are going to suffer because of this with very reduced pay and even harder to find secure positions.

Paroquet 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Notwithstanding, Missouri is a "right to work" state--which means you can be fired for any reason, or no reason, at any time, without notice. But woe betide the employee who terminates their own employment without sufficient notice.

Smell a double standard? Good. Employee loyalty pays, and a smart employer pays forward on account it generally costs them 20% of the former employees salary on top of the replacement's salary to get the newby ship-shape. So, a 4% raise pays for a replacement for five years, and keeps a trained staffer who probably has some consumer loyalty/preference to boot.

Why are there unions? Because some entrepreneurs and agencies started viewing and treating employees like toilet paper.

online_editor 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Clarification of terms: "Right to work," as the term is conventionally used, refers to states where "right to work" laws are in effect. (Missouri is not one of them.) Generally speaking, those laws prohibit labor contracts between employers and unions from mandating that employees become dues paying union members. I believe your description of the unfettered discretion of an employer to fire an employee is the "employment at will" doctrine.

Paroquet 5 months, 2 weeks ago

Employment at will. Yep. That's it. I stand corrected. Thanks! :)

connor 5 months, 2 weeks ago

It depends on the company. Employees, like toilet paper, are a resource. In some companies the training involved for an employee makes that resource more valuable than employees in other companies. Some companies consider their second or third level employees valuable while treating the first tier badly. Give it another 10 years when the Boomers can't physically fill these jobs anymore and these companies have to start really recruiting just to fill the entry level positions and things will change fast.

I can almost see the printed NT now, including a slim column titled "stuff from the Trib forum".

C'mon! Tell me that wouldn't provide some kind of incitement or at the very least, comic relief?

Mo. lawmaker wants stores closed for Thanksgiving

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