Luetkemeyer: Debt-ceiling debate a ‘wake-up call’

hkchas 1 year, 9 months ago

Yes it would have been much better if the Democrats had rolled over and approved the ending of Medicare as we know it, the gutting of Social Security, and the elimination of the middle class AND the payment for tax cuts for the rich borne on those tax increases for the poor.

Now THAT's good government .

Soak the poor to give the rich tax breaks...

JCLifer 1 year, 9 months ago

Agree with you here. The bottom half of the population should start paying some income taxes (even 10%) so they have a stake in the country and are part of it.

Social security should not be a easily raidable pot of money for congress to use. Medicare is a joke- it doesn't really help the people who need help, and there are too many leeches bleeding it dry.

We need some Good Government!

spelchek 1 year, 9 months ago

If all "rich" people were to throw their hands up and surrender to the class warfare democrats so desperately need to get elected; tell me who would pay for the entitlements then? (the question is rhetorical)

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

a rhetorical assumption also, all war talk is coming from the extremist right. And nobody gets more entitlements and a wealthy person with a good tax lawyer, so I don't expect any to throw up their hands.

whatif 1 year, 9 months ago

h t t p ://conservativebyte.com/2011/08/socialist-party-of-america-releases-the-names-of-70-democrat-members-of-congress-who-are-members-of-their-caucus/

WHAT IF.....something to really think about...

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

Blaine Luetkemeyer blames the Dems for what just happened. That makes him part of the teaparty lie.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

What are you calling 'the teaparty lie'?

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

That Obama and the left are trying to steal America or destroy it. That the Democrats are not trustworthy stewards of our process. That the Democrats are actually a danger to America.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

It is a lie. You promote that lie and know it as a lie.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

What is the point with this article?

tonto 1 year, 9 months ago

Would you mind reading things before asking about them? You might not agree with what someone like me would tell you about them.

That one seems to indicate that the "grass roots" myth about the tea party is unraveling, and they are losing their favorable impression on the voters. Their polling indicates that the tea party is viewed less favorably than atheists or Muslims. I personally wouldn't believe it unless polling that is better designed and uses larger samples indicates the same thing.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

Good Morning tonto. Actually I did read the referenced article prior to questioning it. And I agree with your conclusion - given a better polling design etc...

This article was presented by hkchs with the statement 'Unfortunately you have no FACTS to back up your racist opinions .....' For me it begs the quesion givent this statement. Maybe Hcks would like to expound on the merits of its inclusion..

tonto 1 year, 9 months ago

That was my conclusion.

It is straightforward, in contrast to Graceful's continued insistence that some undefined in this context teabagger statements are (somehow) the irrefutable truth. Some supporting information, like a quote or a citation, would help her cause.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

or maybe your comment has NOTHING to do with the debt ceiling debate.. Since it's a thread on "debt ceiling debate", it seems you are merely trying to add fuel to the fire with your race-baiting. I can only conclude this is what is going on.

If you would post ON TOPIC I would actually give your posts some validity - you already know I don't.

It is very clear to me you understand what is going on as you admonished a fellow poster on the 'school saftey' issue.

I'll thank you for responding when you actually make yourself accountable to your posts and follow through with your line of thinking. I am really good - mind reading is not yet my fortay. Otherwise, its just blah blah blah to me.

And just so you and tonto know, Grace actually makes some valid points!

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

You KNOW that the idea of Obama and the left Dems as enemies of America is a far far right LIE meant to make traditional far-righters look good by comparison. Just think how normal ol' Luetkemeyer looks now compared to the wackos aiming for the Assembly.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

You keep threatening war Grace, please start one.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

That's the FOX nuse scam, scare the weezy out of the illerate and get them to vote their way. Yes, we could have civil violence if the wealthy keep convinceing the frightened that the rich shouldn't have to pay their share of the cost of our debt. When S&P are re-exposed as manipulators of public opinion instead of managers of financial analysis, you might see some serious violence, but not war, there's nobody on the right with enough right to carry a cat fight, let alone more than three-corner hat fluff.

tonto 1 year, 9 months ago

Once the so-called social conservatives realize they have been taken for a ride by the wealthy people that run the GOP and created the tea party, the rest of the right wing will have trouble electing dog-catchers.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

Joe I agree with much of what you say, but the Hudson Bay Corporation was the most influential entity in North America before, during and long after the 1776 fuss. Politicians and money are ne'r parted, and that's not the worst fate as long as the public is aware and regulation (CFR and Glass-Steagall are good examples) is in place, the good we all get from the rats is worth giving them a bit of cheese, just not the whole wheel as at present. You often equate Dems and Reps as indistinguishable . . . maybe in their nature as humans and the mechanics of their parties, but their primary constituaencies are clearly biased toward the working class and the owner class respectively. They have to overlap, and their complete lack of cohesion at times like the present make them seem all of a bad ilk, but they are not. Vote left, it's the way all cultures have moved for 2,000 years as we've evolved our societies.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

Government is always a danger to its citizens, it's the process by which we manage power and resources, both limited. Lincoln asserted federal supremacy, as defined in the constitution, thereby defending it. If there was no federal government, you'd be attacking as evil the state, or county, or city, or your patriarch. You just don't want higher authority.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

Your extremist language defeats you. The left and right both know that government grows with the economy, the population and the complexity of our society. The left wants to assure that the limited power and resources are share as widely as reasonable. The right wants to concentrate power and control resources as closely as they legally can. Your endless claim that Lincoln was the historical image of your present fantasy of Obama, and a tyrant in a democracy no less, shows the incredible house of cards the right built with their media domination and well funded lie factories.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

"Government is growing while the economy isn't." It must Grace, a controlled artificial infusion of money into a stagnant or dying economy is historically recognised as the best way out of a slump. Control is the key, but you paint a pre-WWII Germany. Spending cuts and revenue come next, but we've been lied to about the evils of taxes being adjusted so we risk re-slumping (a baker's and a concrete worker's worst fears). The right has manufactored a reality that will cost us $trillions, huge numbers of jobs, and quite a bite out of our future before the people see the lies and start voting to fix the right's scam.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

Our thread is now too narrow for further comment

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

yep

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

Most literate people, the bugaboo of the right.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

There are some extraordinary minds on the right, but by and large they serve money. The intellectual Right is there, but most of academia is left by its very nature. The left doesn't burn books or round up and eat professors quite as often as the right, and with knowledge of theory and reality squarely on their minds, have led humanity from barbarism to the present, expressed most horribly and wonderfully by the still-greatest nation in history. The right must exist to conserve and to give the left an anvil; but like the darkness, it must be held at bay. To see the right attack knowledge, deny scientific reality for profit, decry public education, fulminate against reason and discourse, proves the exact opposit of what you state. The left needs brakes, the right needs routine waking from the morbidity of the status quo. Not being in power or having much wealth, I tend to see the advantage of the left's point of view and present danger of the right's grip on information and public opinion.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

Actually, some of what Graceful says is true. I have personally witnessed individuals of 'the left' excluding people b/c the other didn't agree with an idea. Also, some of 'the left' do have an idea of how things should be and will do alot to make 'their ideology a reality'. Alot of the 'class warfare' comes from that. Thus the statement about Stalin is a not that big of a stretch. 'The left' tend to focus on community. - again, 'class warfare' applies. My question is: how many left-leaning individuals are there that actually believe it is okay for someone to be rich? MAny of the more extreme 'liberals' live without alot of material things. I presume it is a choice.....some are actually hippies from the 60's. It is really odd that people who claim to be so inclusionary can so easily become exclusionary when it comes to diversity of thought. How does one explain that? It looks like hipocracy to me - don't know what else to call it.

I think a healthy goal is a balance between the individual and the community. Seems like that is what is happening. What does that look like, I wonder.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

Possibly. I refuse to comment with any certainty about either of these issues having read only one article on each topic. 'What is really going on?' is the question that comes to mind.

I am trusting online_editor lets us know when we wander too far away from the NT article topic. I will reserve any detailed comment for the comment space associated with each article at the website - if I choose to do so. I will say this: each 'article' is lacking in factual information thus painting a hint of a picture of what is going on. There is much opinion in each. I am sure you,hkchs,have read more than these two articles AND these sites are just the first you have read on each. There is alot of emotion associated with the topics at hand - its really best to be level headed and GET THE FACTS.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

Oh - and now you are the level headed one - the one with objectivity? Quite honestly, I am proud of you hkchs, for beginning to open your eyes. This is called progress....chuckle, chuckle.....lol...

You will note when I said the things I said in the earlier post about SOME on 'the left' it is based on personal experience and observation. No accusations. It is as simple as that.

Again, proud of you, hkchs. Any other 'articles' on the two topics you presented earlier?

wcywing 1 year, 9 months ago

don't pay much attention th hkchas, he thinks gov is always right. i think hkchas and graceful and very much alike in some ways. disagree with them, they get mad and spout lots of things. all i can say go Ron Paul!

all this was because of George W. Bush and Obama and the Congress. perfect example of the gov is not the solution, its the problem.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

lol - yeah, I remain hopeful. everytime hksch posts a website - I think okay, maybe this one is different.....lol. Honestly, it is hard to take either seriously b/c of the 'extremist'? language. Of course, there are many people who do this and sometimes I think it is half of the problem! However, I won't promise I won't join them....lol

Ron Paul is another candidate I have my eye on. Have to see how things go between now and November 2012.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

Sometimes, Hank, I think you are just looking in the mirror and talking to yourself when you comment to Grace. Read your commments to her and then read yours.....who really is talking about what?

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

which 'above comments' are you suggesting I read?

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

This country is what it is because of lots of people - leftward leaning and rightward leaning people and everything in between. We have two lines of thinking on how to deal with the problems at hand. They oppose each other. Each 'side' has their reason for thinking the way they do and seeing the solutions the way they do. Think back a couple of years ago when Congress was voting on bailouts and stimulus packages - all to help the economy. We had far right Congressman Gomert - marshmellow in a cowpie - voting the same as Congressman Kucinich - each for their own reasons that fit their own ideaology. The point is - this is working itself out. Sometimes I think things would be better if elected officials left things alone. Everything that needs to take place in this country comes from the people. Always has - probably always will. Mark my words: The United States of America is walking into a bright future....just getting over the bumps here. We are getting this worked out. Probably something that was unavoidable from the beginning just because this country is kind of like an experiment. So, I personally don't buy into one side or the other as having the corner on the Truth....just people with different ideas on how to remedy the problem at hand. I sure am glad to be an American!!!!

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

While I don't agree with you and JoeGardner about the left and right being equally to praise or blame (can you guess which way I lean?), I do applaud your vision of our bright future and the value of the people as the ultimate stewards of that future. Well said and keep at it.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

Thank you, asb. Means alot! ....besides... its my story and I am sticking to it!!

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

All governments have debt. Decadence is a moral and religious issue, not the province of government, except in theocracies like Iran and your vision of America.

hudson 1 year, 9 months ago

The late grate United States ! The good days are gone for good ! TO many noloads getting in the way of the people who want to work !

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

We ALL want to work, we need jobs. We need everybody who can pay taxes to do so. Our best days are ahead, as always.

RobHunterJohnson 1 year, 9 months ago

Is Vickie Hartzler a Tea Party person as well? Rob

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

She used many teaparty speaking points to win but I think she's actually a very pragmatic politician and will revert to her district's more traditional conservatism and let the foaming of the far right go elsewhere, or she'll lose her next primary.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

If the teaparty is traditional conservatism we'd all be living behind city walls eating pig poop and sleeping on straw mats while the lords & ladies tea party it up in their castles. And, they'd be paying you to tell the rabble what a great life they'd have if they'd just stop asking for food and water and jobs.

asb 1 year, 9 months ago

Your war won't happen Grace, you are too few.

RobHunterJohnson 1 year, 9 months ago

What would you say to someone getting $775,000 in farm subsidy? Rob

RobHunterJohnson 1 year, 9 months ago

Well Vickie and her husband had their hands in the USA cookie jar too! Google Diane Sawyer, Vickie Hartzler. Do we really need someone like that dictating spending? How about Rep. Joe Walsh (IL) no matter what the courts settle on, he is not paying for his kids. These Tea party people are, I got mine, you get yours. The Congress spent the money, they need to pay the bills! Article 1 section 8 read it, its their job not Obamas, not the Senate. The Tea party, and Congress failed to do their job? they need to be on S.S., Medicare, get their own 401ks, and the biggie their own health care. They are completely out of touch with the American people. Vickie took more in subsidy than I have made in my lifetime? That is Sad! If we want to fix S.S. then raise the limit from $106,000.? Oh that would be against the Tea Party contract? This Congress is a joke! I hope you are reading this Blaine, and Vickie? Rob

tonto 1 year, 9 months ago

Leutkemeyer's primary claim is false by definition. It's a detail thing but pretty important to remember. There were two plans rather than one.

Boehner came close to negotiating a deal with Obama because they are both pragmatists, but Boehner could not get his own party to sign on to that plan because of the minimal tax increases Obama needed to keep the House Democrats on board. That plan never came together, so the Senate never had a chance to block whatever it might have been.

The House passed a plan that the Senate would not even consider, but Boehner and Obama were not involved in any serious negotiations about that one.

miracl 1 year, 9 months ago

Educate yourself. Look at Ron Paul. The media portrays him in the most negative light. We all know that the media does not show us the whole story. Judge Anthony Napolitano also has written a great book. Lies the Government have told us. We need to know the true story before we the people can make a decision about our future. It has been far too long that crooks and people who only have their self interest have been pulling all of the strings. Please wake up BEFORE the next election. I see this first hand since moving to Jefferson City. I would have never believed all of the corruption if I had not seen it first hand. I imagine Washington is just on a much larger scale. Printing more money is not the answer..........

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

I am actually reading the book you name. You or another person suggested it. The little I have read - well - in some ways he does the same thing. As I write this, I am thinking of a specific thing he talks about. Given this situation, he only tells part of it also. He does not clearly define the problem. I can only say this for the specific thing I am thinking about. I have much of the book to read.

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

What are you identifying as 'corruption'?

miracl 1 year, 9 months ago

His name is Andrew Napolitano. It is Dr. Ron Paul. Rob has some excellent points also.We need to educate ourselves and not be "SHEEPLE".

ballgame 1 year, 9 months ago

Really Blaine? Its the Dems fault? This guy is a joke. You can stick to you politics and your beliefs, but for goodness sakes at least be honest. Its the Dems fault that they didn't let you completely shake them down and give you everything you wanted?? The shame of it is we are going to go through a Dem President's term with nothing but republican economic policy (bush tax cuts, no real stimulus) and at the end when the economy hasn't improved they are going to blame Obama, when it was Repub economic policy the whole time. Grace, how can you seriously say Dems have been in control for a decade? Bush got two terms and passed the most massive tax cut in decades, maybe ever??!! THAT is why we have the deficit we do, and you know that.

ballgame 1 year, 8 months ago

a real stimulus would be significant spending on infrastructure; something to get money into the hands of people that will spend it and get things moving again. The shame of the 'stimulus' that Obama is getting beaten up for is that the Dems watered it down with tax credits and made it smaller to appease Repubs, and then they didn't vote for it anyway. So not only did we (libs and dems) not get the stimulus we wanted, we have to get beaten up with it because it didn't comepletely turn around this Bush recession. Dems allowed Repubs to dictate the stimulus cake recipe, and then Repubs just sit around and tell us the cake tastes like dookie. Well no duh it tastes like dookie, you made it that way. Because they don't want the economy to recover, they want it to continue to fail (see debt ceiling rating decrease) so they can blame Dems. Saying Dems had two years to 'do anything they wanted' is false also. With Repubs filabustering everything in sight you had to have 60 votes to sneeze. And with all the Blue Dogs (ie DINOs) getting 60 votes was damn near impossible. Its the same thing with the budget "why didn't dems just pass a budget when they had the majority?" because it would have turned into the debt limit fight with government shutdown threats, etc. which is NOT what the economy needs, which is exactly why the Repubs would want such a thing... wow, sorry for the rant. But as you can see, as frustrated as you are on the right, there are just as many people on the left that are equally as so.

asb 1 year, 8 months ago

Stimulus has been successfull for thousands of years as a means to prop up and vitalize economies during downturns. You are wrong Graceful. They eventually have to be funded, and that's been the plan from day one. Bush's tax cuts were also a stimulus, for the rich, which does have some impact, but it also needs to be paid for by reestablishing some or most of the gift back to the taxpayers. The pipe dream is yours, all governments at every scale are the biggest engine in every economy available for adjustment. Study some more Grace.

miracl 1 year, 9 months ago

Wasting money,public drunkenness, breaking laws and not being prosecuted. Thinking they are somehow entitled to special treatment and money has lost its meaning by their waste. Its is some little things and some big things but it is still rubbing the taxpayers noses right in it. Petunia,your comment about the book is very allusive.

John 1 year, 9 months ago

allusive??????

Gabrielle 1 year, 9 months ago

Sure, miracl, I understand why you say my comment on the book is elusive. I'll get specific. When Andrew Napalitano talks about clinical trials in the section of The Right to Life (p129), he talks about clinical trials and how someone who is terminally ill cannot take an experimental drug with the hope it may help them. The point is a valid one. What AN does not describe is WHY things are the the way they are. It seems to me the full picture is important to resolve the issue. The reader doesn't get that on this one. Anyway, I am looking forward to reading the rest of it -

Okay so, given the specifics of corruption you identified, miracl, does this pertain to state, county, or city officials?

miracl 1 year, 9 months ago

John,allusive/elusive/illusive wsu.edu/~brians/errors/elusive.html - Cached When a lawyer alludes to his client's poor mother, he is being allusive. When the mole keeps eluding the traps you've set in the garden, it's being elusive. ... Petunia,I have witnessed these behaviors in persons from our Capitol. I was surprised they were so blatant and I seemed to be the only one surprised. I am an outsider and the insiders told me this was status quo since the 1950's. You have a valid point . A full picture is a must. I do tend to see black and white,right or wrong. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Gabrielle 1 year, 8 months ago

Welcome - I wonder what happened during the 1950's that this is identified as the starting point of the awful acts you described.

Spankthefed 1 year, 8 months ago

Anyone using Bush in their argument in 2011 is a coolaid drininker or disingenuous. When have the democrats cut anything? The gop in the beltway is part of the problem, but the dnc is the one backed by the "something for nothing" consituents who believe in class envy, war, and that they are owed something simply for breathing inside the borders of the United States. The other part of the dnc runs the plantation. Now the problem, your running out of money and the "I'm entitiled crowd" is getting restless. What a mess, and plety of blame to go around, it's Obama's watch, welcome to the hot seat rookie.

Gabrielle 1 year, 8 months ago

Spankthefed, what are you calling 'the plantation'? and why?

Spankthefed 1 year, 8 months ago

Why do you ask? What's your agenda?

Gabrielle 1 year, 8 months ago

**Spankthefed: You have asked two questions - I bet I have some answers.

1."Why do I ask?'**

**Answer: I ask b/c I would like to understand what you mean when you say 'the plantation'. I also ask 'why?' b/c I would like to know why you selected this particular term to use in the context of dnc.

" What's your agenda?"

Answer: Given the definitions:**

a·gen·daNoun/əˈjendə/ 1. A list of items of business to be considered and discussed at a meeting. 2. A list or program of things to be done or problems to be addressed.

**my answer is no agenda - no lists.

Given the following definition:**

Definition of AGENDA 1: a list or outline of things to be considered or done 2: an underlying often ideological plan or program

Again, my answer is no agenda - no lists and no underlying plan/program. I would like to understand. It is just as simple as that.seems to me to be a crucial part of communicating and I would think that you would like to be understood - but that could be presumptious on my part.

Do tell, Spankthefed. I await your response.

Spankthefed 1 year, 8 months ago

The welfare state, is the plantation. I believe it is a fair analogy considering the amount of control the govt has and wants in peoples lives, perhaps dramatic to catch the reader and confuse the slow. Hope you, oh pettled one, "understand" now. While you have the dictionary out, look up smarmy....and "do tell" us the results. :>)

Gabrielle 1 year, 8 months ago

Good Morning Spanky. The name is Petunia and 'petalled one' applies not 'peddled one'...just so you know...smile.

Yes, I have a better underswtanding now. And given it sounds like you are talking federal government thus 'welfare state' refers to the USA as a whole. Sounds like you have identified the dnc as the influential one who is runninhg the federal government --> the country.

There are alot of things the government does that I believe are wrong. Our federal governemt does more than it aught - regulations, taxes, department of ...you name it. It is important we define what parts of the government we identify as unncessary, wasteful, etc. and address these.

I am certain the best days of The United States of America lie ahead of her. These days await us b/c we -the people - know and understand where the power lies. With us. As one poster said, 'We allowed." So, the question as I see it: What are we doing about it? Those best days I see likely will not happed until we, the people place verbs in our sentences and follow through.

I've really come to love this country - the USA. In a lot of ways, it is an experiment. I do feel as though I am freer that anyone who lived on a plantation.... except maybe the plantation owner. The owner walked freely. I feel like I am more like the owner than his children or his people property. So, for me, it doesn't fit - seems extreme. Maybe, for others, if did catch their eye as you suggest, Spanky.

One other thing - per your request:

smarmy (smarmier comparative) (smarmiest superlative )If you describe someone as smarmy, you dislike them because they are unpleasantly polite and flattering, usually because they want you to like them or to do something for them.

Thought you might like this definition the best. Actually, I haven't heard this word for quite a while. I like the sounds and its a fun word to say. Kinda like 'yammer' someone used that in a sentence. fun! Anyway, maybe you actually understand The Petalled One - aka Petunia, also.

Spankthefed 1 year, 8 months ago

I "underswtanding" <----lol.....guess I struck quite a nerve eh? Perhaps we could stick to the issue, do you have anything related to my topical comment or are we done? :>)

To wrap it back around, the dnc is the bigger of two problem$ in Wa$hington, any problem with this simple assessment?

Gabrielle 1 year, 8 months ago

'guess I struck quite a nerve eh?' ????? 'Perhaps we could stick to the issue, do you have anything related to my topical comment or are we done?' ????????? 'to wrap it back around'...?????

Does that mean you are ready to discuss the topic at hand, Spanky? Are you up to speed now?

So you have identified the dnc as a problem in two different ways. What now?

Spankthefed 1 year, 8 months ago

Well since the editoe deleted my comment , I guess "now" were done. Have a great week.

Luetkemeyer: Debt-ceiling debate a ‘wake-up call’

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