Paroquet 5 months ago

Still trying to find anyone who is "pro-abortion". Encountered plenty who are anti-choice and have themselves had a vasectomy or tubiligation.

How's that work? Does that make sense?

eileen10 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Yes

Paroquet 4 months, 3 weeks ago

That answer needs some rationalization since the Religious Right doesn't condone birth control of any stripe. So, rendering one's self infertile or sterile is the same as using a condom or diaphragm or having an abortion. Either and any of which prohibits God's (who is supposedly omnipotent, but somehow isn't in this case) Will.

It gets a little awkward defending prohibiting pregnancy and demonizing inducing abortion. They're one and the same; they both prevent a child being born. They both thwart the will of an omniscient & omnipotent and judgmental metaphysical being.

Prevention of conception is nothing more than preconceived abortion. But I'm still really wanting some kind of logical and rational response to the question of: How can an omnipotent being's will be thwarted?

I am omnipotent, I decide you are going to have a baby. Contraception use will fail, subsequent abortion attempts will fail. I am omniscient--or am I?

eileen10 4 months, 3 weeks ago

I think I'm confused. Think? yep. I'm confused. Sometimes my brain takes a vacation.

Paroquet 4 months, 3 weeks ago

No worries. I do the same thing.

What I was saying is abortion is the same as birth control in the Christian spiritual sense since both prevent a mother giving birth.

You can't be okay with birth control or abstinence (the Creator gave you those feelings for a reason, after all), and not okay with abortion.

The logic of the whole argument...there isn't any logic, and reasons abound on both sides, some tangible,some circumstantial, some mythical.

The "Conservative" reasoning is that God made you pregnant for a reason, no matter what. And he would have, no matter what, despite your preference as to the particular circumstance. Blocking or terminating a pregnancy is therefore one of two things; it is God's will, or God is not omnipotent. God must be omnipotent, so any blocking or termination of pregnancy must be His will--otherwise, nothing could prevent the conception and birth.

Fundies have a nice way of arguing themselves into a corner. I just like to make it obvious. Just wait'll one responds "But God gives you choice!" and join me for a good laugh.

Either something is all powerful and all knowing, or it's not. And if it's not, pretty much all of any Ibrahimic Monotheist churches sort of go -squelch-.

It's an irrefutable confrontation; if an omniscient omnipotent being wants a child to be born, it will no matter what you do. So, whatever you do & whatever the result, is God's will.

Kinda renders the anti-choice argument sorta moot...if they're truly among the Faithful, then contraception and abortion both aren't thwarting God's will...or God is less than omniscient or omnipotent.

eileen10 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Thanks. I'm no longer confused. Sometimes you say something and I get the meaning wrong. Your very, very intelligent and I can't always keep up with what your saying but your nice and you take the time to explain things so thank you. I'd much rather ask than to pretend I know what you mean so no one would think I'm stupid. I'm not stupid. I'm just not as smart as you are and.. OMG!!!! I was just picturing me at a convention with a bunch of people who are highly intelligent and there I am. That's a funny thought. I'd stick out like a sore thumb if I opened my mouth because I'd probably say something intelligent like "DUH".

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Perhaps old school Catholicism will view the two as the same but life happens at conception once the soul is placed within the being. While contraception may be a particular sin towards The Lord it isn't murder. As for omniscience, God has always given men the ability to kill. Doesn't mean he doesn;t know when it is going to happen but the sin will still be answered for.

God gives you a choice but that doesn't mean a religious argument against abortion is circular. He gives us all a choice to defend his children as well. He doesn't interfere in your choice one way or another because those choices are what define you.

FarCry 4 months, 4 weeks ago

As far as most "pro-lifers" (typically political conservatives)--Is it "pro-life" OR pro-war, anti-safety net, pro-pollution, anti-consumer safety regulations, pro-death penalty....? Please make up your minds once and for all. Life does exist OUTSIDE the womb after all.

eileen10 4 months, 4 weeks ago

I believe in abortion if it's a case of rape or if it means the mother would die before child birth or during. I do not believe in aborting a fetus simply because it's a hinderance. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's not my place to judge what a woman does. And if there's a significant other he needs to be in on the decision. My thoughts only and I will never argue or try to change someones mind. If someone wanted my opinion I'd look at everything all the way around, suggest a counselor if needed or I'd just say what I feel without being judgemental or rash. But I hope I'm not put in that position again. Once was hard enough. And as far as people wanting women to keep the baby instead of aborting, if she doesn't want it what kind of life would that little one have. There's adoption if she chooses and I can "see" connors head spinning. If she chooses to keep the baby and knows who the father is I feel if he says to have the abortion because he doesn't want the baby or the financial responsibility and hopefully this was discussed before she became pregnant and it was an "oops" cuz the condom brke or she didn't protect herself, then in all fairness he should be left out of everything. Generally that's not the case and in that instance, well, guess ther's going to be a battle. Men look at it one way and women the other. I try to see both sides. And sometimes I just throw my hands up and say "whatever!!".

connor 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Pro-Choicers claim they want a choice but what they really want is simply for the woman to have a choice. If you bring up the male voluntary abortion scheme like you mentioned they immediately start screaming the guy "should have kept it in his pants". Tell them they should keep an aspirin between their knees though and it's a full out war on women.

Next comes the "My body my choice argument" LOL I assure you the wallet takes a much harder physical hit than the body. At least you can attempt to recover from childbirth in time, many a high profile mother pulls it off, but the hit to the wallet is very often never recovered from.

I won't even get into the completely unfair way child support is calculated.

I am against abortion from a religious stand point but I do not argue against it from that ground. I argue against it because today's "Woman's Choice" arrangement is biased, sexist and oppressive to men. A double standard that the so called equality feminist seem to have no problem being tyrants with. Yet the men were the ones who oppressed and kept women from having rights....uh huh.

Lastly there is no battle Eileen. The government takes and there is nothing the man can do about it except try and run or hide and eventually go to prison unless he expatriates. On the other hand let a deadbeat mother rack up 24K plus in back child support and they don't even go after her drivers license. Figure that one out.

eileen10 4 months, 4 weeks ago

It is pretty much one sided. I can't argue that. Back in my day when a gal found out she was pregnant and wasn't married all hell broke loose and the guy was pretty much forced into marriage so the female wouldn't be looked down on. That stigma has lessened I feel, and now instead of marriage the guy pays for what they both did so to speak. Putting blame on one or the other is fruitless. Their both to blame. Whatever happened to waiting for marriage before sex occurs? For some reason it kinda works and what just popped into my head were the words "make love, not war". The freedom generation. The hippies. Free love, free booze,free drugs and a whole lot of children with no father figure. Thousands of women on welfare and the laws at that time weren't real harsh as far as going after the man because nine times out of ten the gal didn't know who the father was. As time went on and DNA came into play things changed. The welfare system was overloaded with single mothers having one baby after another so to ease the burden laws became tougher and the man was brought into play as in...you fathered the child and you will pay. One woman. three children and they all have different fathers. Is that a mess or is that a mess. My solution is for both to put an aspirin between their legs. In the animal kingdom the only ones capeable of controlling their offspring are human beings. I heard that said one time and it's true. Far to many people grunt and roll around thinking their doing something great until a baby shows up. Then it doesn't seem so fun. So what's the answer? Sex education doesn't seem to work. Talking to ones own kids doesn't seem to work all the time and family planning doesn't seem to help much either. Anyway you look at it there are problems. Abortion is a quick fix but not a good answer. Heading off an unwanted pregnancy means preventing it either by birth control or just saying no. But I guess that's to damn tough to figure out.

connor 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Just like with everything else once the government stuck it's nose into the issue of support and parenting it just made the issue worse. As long as the government is going to enforce the support money to flow and provide when it doesn't there is no incentive for women to act responsively and with the current biased attitude in place increasingly men cannot act even if they wish to.

wow 4 months, 4 weeks ago

In the case of rape, it's that particular womans's choice. In the case of not being able to properly care for the child, it's the woman her mate who decide. Like it or not...unless the law is legally changed, abortion is legal. Killing medical staff who legally provide this service and bombing places where these services are le4gally provided is....ILLEGAL and the people who plant the bombs or pull the trigggers are criminals.

WTF 4 months, 3 weeks ago

"In the case of rape, it's that particular womans's choice."

But doesn't the woman's body have a way to deal with that?

eileen10 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Of course. Didn't whats his name Akin say that and of course he's the friggen expert.

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

He was referring to a report by experts "the doctors for life organization". I didn't know you had a medical degree Eileen. You must though since only an expert could have an opposite expert opinion.

Also the quote was taken out of context to begin with but we won't let facts get in the way of our feelings especially when voting.

eileen10 4 months, 3 weeks ago

I do have a medical license. And Akin is still a boob. And it wasn't taken out of context. He actually believed what he said and he will never live it down.

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Well I am glad you know more than the doctors who say otherwise and can judge accordingly. They seem pretty confident that a legitimate rape can cause a reduction in the fertility rate. Call em boobs if you like but I think there is more to the outrage than just possible biology and physiology.

John 4 months, 3 weeks ago

She wrote that she has a medical license, that could mean something as simple as a "nurse aide" certification. . . .

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

True enough John. I didn't feel the need to split hairs here. Too many normally rational people fall prey to the Liberal emotional plea politics. I may not be a doctor but I can tell you that stress and other outside influences can have similar effects on lesser mammals and is common knowledge to anyone who raises stock but what is really in question here is not the science. No, what really infuriates these anti-Akin-ites is the "legitimate Rape" part.

They will never admit it of course and can conveniently hide behind some outrage of the science even though they really do not have the education to even speak on the topic. Never question the Feminist/Liberal/Multi-Cult religious dogma that rape is whatever a woman wants to claim it is.

It's pure emotion and you cannot argue against it only open the eyes of those who can see.

eileen10 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Good greif. I'm Not a doctor. I'm not an aide. I'm an LPN with 30 years experience and when it comes to rape and what Akin said it's best to drop it. It's over and done with and we won't get anywhere arguing about it. If you guys want to gang up on me that's fine. I'll just grin as I shake my head.

WTF 4 months, 3 weeks ago

"I may not be a doctor but I can tell you that stress and other outside influences can have similar effects on lesser mammals and is common knowledge to anyone who raises stock but what is really in question here is not the science."

So someone who has experience with farm animals has more experience with a human body than someone who has a medical degree and thirty years experience in the medical field. I don't think so Connor. Lets compare apples to apples here.

The statement that Akin made is asinine at best. People with that kind of opinion need to act like the rest of the lower life forms on this rock. Hide in a hole somewhere.

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

And people who don't read before they reply and who have no clue that Akin was citing the findings of a medical organization made up of doctors and NOT simply his opinion should perhaps try thinking and not just gut reacting.

I know will never happen.

Paroquet 4 months, 3 weeks ago

What Akin said was patently false. The odds for getting preggers are the same from rape as they are from a night of binge drinking and promiscuity.

It is Akin's opinion of studies by "doctors" who believe like him.

If you believe like Akin, you believe in witchcraft, Magic, and a sundry of other mythological happenings--which makes magic real, which is unChristian.

Como se dice' "oops"?

No, wait, I got that one for you; "que lastima".

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

I guess the physicians for life are magician then. Maybe you should apply for a grant and prove them wrong.

eileen10 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Physicians for life also promote the long disproven claim that abortion causes breast cancer. No one should take these people seriousley.

Paroquet 4 months, 3 weeks ago

It's hard to compete with those whole "Faith Based" initiatives, and funding from religious groups to prove themselves right--see, in real science, we work to prove ourselves wrong.

Proving oneself right is easy, and usually accompanied by a monied consensus. Nobody with a vested interest in being right invests in proving themselves wrong.

WTF 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Are you referring to yourself there connor? I just find it amazing that in 2013 there are individuals who have a mind set from the 1880 through 1910 era where everyone who has an opinion about something is a so-called expert. I will leave the opinions of these so-called experts like yourself stand on their own. I have a tendency to believe in facts and scientists who go out of their way to find the truth.

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Interesting since the only opinion I gave on the medical/biological side was that anyone who deals in livestock knows stress and other outside conditions can reduce the fertility rate in mammals. I have simply pointed out that this physicians group were the one's who made the medical claim in humans that Akin prescribes to.

You're the only one who seems to be an expert.

WTF 4 months, 3 weeks ago

John she may be a nurses aide but she deals with humans not cows or chickens(who the last time I checked were not human beings).

John 4 months, 3 weeks ago

So, that means she also knows more than an MD ?

JCLifer 4 months, 3 weeks ago

"So someone who has experience with farm animals has more experience with a human body than someone who has a medical degree and thirty years experience in the medical field".

Not sure about the farm animal experience comparing to a human body experience, but I hear that there are lots of guys around here who do have considerable experience with farm animals. It is all good, though.

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Thanks Smokey!!!

Paroquet 4 months, 3 weeks ago

I wonder...how many of St. Raymond's are on an adoption waiting list and willing to support a mother throughout her term & delivery.

Those that are should be sainted for virtue alone. Those not, dammed as hypocrites.

[excuse the spelling; I've had issue with the FILTER today for common-use terms that aren't considered obscenities or vulgar]

You can't say pu**y-footing, for example...

eileen10 4 months, 3 weeks ago

I get bleeped for using words I didn't feel should be bleeped. I don't have a filter like you spoke of. Is it something that gets down loaded from somewhere? I'm still learning about things a computer can do.

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

That filter is a real pain you cannot use the common Roster name in any form within a word period either. There was also one that got me sometime back dealing with coastal drilling. Took me an hour to find where what the filter was blocking.

As for adoption we are all adopting babies these days, same as we are all paying for the abortions.

Paroquet 4 months, 3 weeks ago

The filter is the Trib's server, not on my end. I wonder if the Brit-slang "Slag" is allowed. Mostly where I browse forums it's used to refer to the sludge sc**ped from the top of refined ore. To the Brits it's on par with referring to a s-l-u-t who is old and ugly.

As to adopting babies, if you aren't on a waiting list, get yourself out of the picket line and shut it. That's about the nicest way I can say that with some semblance of common decency.

Put-up, or shut-up.

====== Watch your mouth! The words "c--p" are not allowed here.

I didn't even use a word in the initial post that was spelled "c--p".

attempt two: Ah-ha! They don't like the word ...well, you can't spell it and not get filtered; it's the metal you don't use for anything else, you know, s**aped.

Geezus, and I thought I was sensitive...

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Say it all you want. Liberal/Feminist legislation has already assured everyone of us tax payers are paying for orphans, and abortions, and child support, etc.

With the amount of my tax money that has been redistributed to these high dollar government help programs I could have adopted about three babies.

Stop taking the tax payers money to fund all of this and you might have a point.

eileen10 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Give me a great big DUH!!!! I thought, for some reason, that you had a filter as well. If this filter were a person I'd slap it silly.

eileen10 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Apparently I don't talk so durn good cuz I get words bleeped that are in my everyday vocabulary. Other sites I've been on don't bleep anything. Not even the F word.

asb 4 months, 3 weeks ago

I don't mind my taxes being used to help orphans, the poor, the sick, the unemployed - that's what taxes are for. I mind very much my taxes being used to support TIFFs, tax cuts for the richest of us, wars started by lies from liars, subsidies for Big Ag, oil, and more highways when we need mass transit. But, I'm just a Progressive lefty and you can expect me to feel this way. I also think abortion is a viable means to prevent a soulless embryo from becoming a human being,

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Like for every dollar collected by a state's child support agency the Federal government sends that state two dollars to fund the program? Who's paying for that?

Planned Parenthood grants.

The outlays in education alone means every American tax payer funds more than three students and two government employees in their lifetime in the department of Education (not counting States).

Each of us adopt, forced by the government from cradle to grave. I always wanted to visit the kid I adopted from South Chicago but he is in prison now so I am still paying.

asb 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Your numbers appear to come from a psychotic blender. I pay taxes, but not nearly enough to completely fund two government child support workers or even one whole student. I do contribute taxes to child support collection efforts and public education, just like I contribute to cops and firefighters and infrastructure, all good programs. If you see your taxes as going to fund an orphan on its way to jail, then there's your problem, and may be why you need an assualt rifle with a suicidal motto as an avatar icon.

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Typical of a Cleftwing extremist taker/looter. The numbers scare you but since most of that comes from someone else it's all about the emotion.

In the end it is why all of us will need a rifle, and nothing on my avatar is an assault rifle to begin with but we won't let facts get in the way of the Liberal redistribution ideas.

Paroquet 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Connor, if most of the numbers in your own rebuttals come from someone else, it's considered common courtesy (actually it's sort-of required) that you cite them.

Oh, and rifles are way too loud. So are shotguns & pistols, but by the time you need one of those, sound isn't an issue, and a knife is more effective--why you think a TAZER has a range of 21ft? Might wanna look into that.

Cheers!

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Actually I disagree with your suggestion completely. The liberal conglomerate posters won't care what link you put up and the ones who are interested can easily google the info. I am not going to waste time going back to remember where I read something just to put a link in a reply on a comment section that doesn't allow links anyway. If they wanted links or required them they would allow them. If I remember exactly were the info comes from I will usually mention it to facilitate the readers own research.

If I am writing an article on my own I will link references.

The funding for child support services by the Fed Gov. is easily looked up all ya have to do is go to the states website for it. When you consider that over 50% of the people in America pay no taxes and see how much the ones that do pay shell out it's pretty easy to determine who is paying the government employee salary. I know it is hard for Liberals to see the view from another perspective but I am sure some taxpayers pay a salary or two every year.

Those of us who pay have already adopted your "orphans" monetarily speaking and without a choice on our part so your claim that we should adopt if we are pro-life is meaningless. But keep trying.

asb 4 months, 3 weeks ago

So what is that weapon, a harpoon? And the star, tell us about the star Mr. Clay. Are you part of an army?, The Communist Chinese use a single star in much of their iconography; you one of them? It's OK if you are, but you don't talk like a communist. I can see where you might see me as a taker, me being supportive of government and all, but I don't get the looter bit . . . did your keyboard just anticipate your thoughts or have I suggested that it's cool for people to loot? I don't think so. Nothing personal you'll notice, just some points you might clear up . . .

connor 4 months, 3 weeks ago

Since the weapon has a single sized fore grip along it's length it cannot be an M16a1 or a2. Both of those military versions had tapering fore grips that were actually more triangle shaped but that wouldn't be apparent in a silhouette. As for the M4 versions they are shorter so the distance from the fore grip end to the muzzle brake is also shorter I believe. Meaning the silhouette is of a common AR15 type rifle NOT a so called assault rifle.

Since that flag is an adaptation of the Texas Gonzales colony flag the star is just the single star of Texas but can be adapted to any holding that at the moment is standing alone even if they are in a country of like minded holdings. So if you knew anything about the fight against being disarmed you would know it pointedly cries out that the bearer is not part of an organized (yet) resistance or army as you called it but simply willing to defend their own rights.

Looter/taker all the same thing in my book especially the legalized looting the liberals partake in.

Any other questions you may have? The answers mean nothing in your opinions but I try to help you some.

Banquet celebrates pro-life successes

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I didn't even use a word in the initial post that was spelled "c--p".