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Do black people support Obama because he's black?

Surviving slavery, segregation and discrimination has forged a special pride in African-Americans. Now some are saying this hard-earned pride has become prejudice in the form of blind loyalty to President Barack Obama.

Are black people supporting Obama mainly because he's black? If race is just one factor in blacks' support of Obama, does that make them racist? Can blacks' support for Obama be compared with white voters who may favor his Republican challenger, Mitt Romney, because he's white?

These questions have long animated conservatives who are frustrated by claims that white people who oppose Obama's policies are racist. This week, when a black actress who tweeted an endorsement of Romney was subjected to a stream of abuse from other African-Americans, the politics of racial accusation came full circle once again.

Stacey Dash, who also has Mexican heritage, is best known for the 1995 film "Clueless" and the recent cable-TV drama "Single Ladies." On Twitter, she was called "jigaboo," ''traitor," ''house nigger" and worse after posting, "Vote for Romney. The only choice for your future."

The theme of the insults: A black woman would have to be stupid, subservient or both to choose a white Republican over the first black president.

Russell Simmons, the hip-hop mogul and Obama backer, called Dash's experience "racism." Said Barbara Walters on "The View": "If she were white, this wouldn't have happened."

Twitter users are by no means representative of America, and many black Obama supporters quickly denounced the attacks. But for people like Art Gary, an information technology professional, the reason Dash was attacked is simple: She is a black woman supporting a white candidate over a black one.

"It goes both ways," said Gary, who is white. "There is racial bias amongst whites, and there is racial bias amongst blacks. But as far as the press is concerned, it only goes one way."

Antonio Luckett, a sales representative in Milwaukee who is black, called the attacks on Dash unfair. But when people speak out against a symbol of black progress like Obama, he said, "African-Americans tend to be internally hurt by that."

"We still have a civil rights (era) mentality, but we're not living in a civil rights-based world anymore," he said. "We want to say, 'You're black, you need to stand behind black people.'"

Luckett said one reason he voted for Obama in the 2008 primary against Hillary Clinton was because Obama is black: "Yes, I will admit that."

Is that racism? Not in Luckett's mind. "It's voting for someone who would understand your side of the coin a lot better."

Such logic runs into trouble when applied to a white person voting for Romney because he understands whiteness better. Ron Christie, a black conservative who worked for former President George W. Bush, finds both sides of that coin unacceptable.

"It's not the vision that our leaders in the civil rights movement would have envisioned and be proud of in the era of the first African-American president," Christie said.

Martin Luther King Jr. fought Jim Crow laws, which deprived blacks of political rights after Reconstruction, upheld by Southern Democrats. But black voters switched after Democratic President Lyndon B. Johnson pushed through the 1960s civil rights legislation and Republicans successfully pursued the votes of white people who disliked the civil rights agenda.

Since then, Democrats have persistently wooed black voters with programs and platforms that African-Americans favor, and the party has been rewarded every four years.

Clinton got 83 percent of the black vote in 1992 and 84 percent in 1996; the third-party candidate Ross Perot probably sliced away some of Clinton's black support. Al Gore got 90 percent in 2000; John Kerry got 88 percent in 2004. Obama captured 95 percent in 2008, and 2 million more black people voted than in the previous election.

Christie says he, too, shares the sense of pride in Obama smashing what for blacks is the ultimate glass ceiling. He understands that black pride springs from a shared history of being treated as less than human, while the history of pride in whiteness has a racist context.

But he still sees black people voting for Obama out of a "straitjacket solidarity."

Christie sees it in his barbershop, where black men shifted from calling candidate Obama "half-white" and "not one of us" to demanding that Christie stop opposing the first black president.

He sees it in the comments of radio host Tom Joyner, who told his millions of listeners a year ago, "Let's not even deal with facts right now. Let's deal with our blackness and pride — and loyalty. . I'm not afraid or ashamed to say that as black people, we should do it because he's a black man."

The actor Samuel L. Jackson said much the same thing: "I voted for Barack because he was black," he told Ebony magazine. "Cuz that's why other folks vote for other people — because they look like them."

In 2011, as black unemployment continued to rise, the chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus said that if Clinton was still president, "we probably would be still marching on the White House . (but) nobody wants to do anything that would empower the people who hate the president."

And just last week, the rapper Snoop Dogg posted a list of voting reasons, written by someone else, on a social media account. No. 1 on his pro-Obama list: He's black. Snoop's top reason to not vote for Romney: He's white.

All of this may help explain why Veronica Scott-Miller, a junior at historically black Hampton University, directed the following tweet at Dash: "You get a lil money and you forget that you're black and a woman. Two things Romney hates."

In an interview, Scott-Miller said the GOP fought Obama's effort to provide funding for historically black colleges like hers. She dislikes Romney's opposition to abortion and thinks Republicans have a "negative stigma about us . they make generalizations in their speeches about our race in general, and they make up terms like welfare queens and stuff."

Told that some saw her tweet as racist, she said that's not what she meant. "I was saying that as a black woman, Romney doesn't have that much that would make us want to vote for him," said Scott-Miller, who is black. "Because Barack Obama lives with three black women in his house, he knows about what they need, he knows about the issues we may be facing, he talks to black women on the regular."

Sherrilyn Ifill, a law professor at the University of Maryland, wrote a column last week exploring why so many black voters are rejecting Romney. She said it has less to do with the candidate than with his party's treatment of Obama, such as John Sununu calling the president "lazy" after the debate, a congressman shouting "You lie!" during the State of the Union address, claims that Obama is not a citizen and more.

In an interview, Ifill said that for black voters, such accusations feel like white people are attacking their own dignity. "In essence," she says, "they are closing ranks around Obama."

She noted that women were justifiably moved by Hillary Rodham Clinton's candidacy and Catholics flocked to the polls to elect President John F. Kennedy. Comparing black pride in Obama to white pride in Romney is a "false symmetry" because of the history of black oppression, she says, and she asked for patience from America at large.

"There should not be this resistance to pride over the first black president," Ifill says. "If we get to the fifth one, I'll be with you."


Jesse Washington covers race and ethnicity for The Associated Press. He can be contacted at jwashington@ap.org.

Comments

eileen10 7 months, 1 week ago

It seems like some blacks ignore the fact that Pres. Obama is half white. I say this due to talking to a few black women one evening at bingo. They are proud of having a black president and without thinking I said he's half white and they looked at me like I had two heads. It's impossible for me to put myself in their place. I don't have ancestors who were slaves. My people used the white bathroom and rode in the front of the bus. My skin color makes a big difference in how people see me even in this day and age. Idon't have hatered against a certain bunch of people due to how my ancestors were treated because I'm not black. I can pretty much see why blacks would vote for Pres Obama only because of his skin color but that doesn't mean he's going to change how people feel about race and he's not going to make things better in their personal lives that I can see. There are still poor blacks and poor whites and a president can't change that. Only people can change that if they can bite, scratch and claw their way to a job. But maybe some blacks feel a black president will do things to change their lives. I really don't know. If blacks want to vote for Pres. Obama only because he's black that's their right but neither he or his family are poor so if blacks think he can understand how they feel I don't think he can. Neither can his wife or kids because they don't have to worry about money or anything else. I could be wrong as I'm only guessing but personally speaking I don't feel it's very smart to vote for someone based on the color of their skin. Then again, I see it through the eyes of a white person.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

You need to just get over and/or tune out the White guilt message the media and liberals are constantly sending your way Eileen. Do you think Blacks in this country have the corner market on ancestors that were slaves? Do you think a Black person faces anymore discrimination because of skin color than you would if the situation were reversed? And it very often is these days, believe me I know.

Obama has no ancestors who were slaves in North America from his fathers side. in fact he has about as much a chance of having slave owning or enslaved ancestors as any generic American. More than average slave owner from his African side. Not to mention a fair percentage of Black Americans today have no ties to slavery on this side of the Atlantic and for them to still hold that as a grudge is akin to you or I hating Muslims because of Janissary slaves or even Roman slaves.

I assure you that you suffer just as much discrimination and bias in your life as any other group or combination there of. Don't be saddled with someone else's guilt being used as a tool to manipulate your decisions against your own self preservation and well being.

I have traveled abroad and lived abroad and believe me everyone is judged by all that they are from skin color to religion and back again. Some are more judgmental than others but penalizing an entire race for the actions of the entire world, which is what is happening in the U.S. today is just silliness.

I have been refused entrance into businesses for being an American, for being a soldier, for even being White. What is it that makes discrimination towards Blacks so much more hateful than towards anyone else?

Your skin color as you put it does make a difference you just happen to be in an area where it is beneficial for you. That doesn't mean there aren't just as many areas (or more) that it wouldn't be beneficial. Yet you or someone else in your position now must pay a price for it when others don't?

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eileen10 7 months, 1 week ago

What you said is a real eye opener. Things I never knew or thought of. Thank you and your right. Holy smokes are you right. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to explain things to me. Your unseen friend, Eileen.

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

They don't ignore it! The law states that if you have any black in your heritage you r black. My son is white with blonde hair & blue Eyes but i am mixed black & white. As soon as the school saw me bring him in they changed his color on the school paperwork from white to black. Even though he is only 1/4 black and it doesn't show. But his daddy is black therefore he is black.

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

That is crazy! What difference does it make? Why would the law say something like that anyway? That needs to be changed.

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

It has been on the books since the slave days.

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wow 7 months, 1 week ago

So some people support President Obama because he's black. Even though some people say he's half white, when ya look at the fella, 100% of the people see a black man...and again so what if people vote for him becauses of what they see. is it any differant than anyone cheering for the all white male golf club? Is it any different than people allowing equally quaified women to be paid less for doing the same job as a man? So wha,t people vote for Obama because of his skin color. There are a heck-of-a-lot more people who are not voting for Obama because of his skin color, or him supposedly not being a Christian! I 've heard people say they won't vote for him because his name doesn't like an "American" name.

Yeah besides him being the best qualifierd person for the job. I'm voting for him because I like the fact that "American History" will have to include that a Negro actually ran this country and did a very fine job. Despite the systematic hatred blacks faced nand strill face, historians will have to tell the truth that people of color are not all lazy, thieves, rapist, criminals or ignorant field hands. The world has to admit that the lies and evil crimes perpatrated against people of color were done so and yet black American's contiue rising to the challenges. Am I voting for Obama because he's black...YES I AM, but there also so much to Barrack Obama that tells me he's the right person for the job.

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John 7 months, 1 week ago

This doesn't even deserve a response, yet here I am making a statement. While you are able to decide for yourself how "fine" of a job he is doing, I believe you will find 51% or more will disagree with you at the polls.
However, to vote for a person based upon their color is just silliness. It seems to me that the mantra of all the civil-rights organizations has been to not see the color or depend upon the person regardless of their color, not because of it.

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

right but that don't stop repubs and tea partiers from portraying him as a monkey and apes and all of that. But in your world that id Free speech and not racism! Correct?

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

And they portrayed George W. Bush as a monkey and ape, etc. So what is your point?

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

you would have to show me that!! Link Please! I never saw it and that is not to say that it didn't happen just that i didn't see it. But i will Google it in a little while

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eileen10 7 months, 1 week ago

I have a question. and please don't think I'm being a smart azz because I'm not. I'ts nothing more than curiosity. If President Obama would have been a bad president would you still vote for him?

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

Oh, that one left a mark!

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

yes it was i am proud of you graceful you actually semi quoted someone that i know you consider a liberal and probably evil too but i am assuming that so who knows you could be a very lovely lady but who knows.

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

Considering race as a factor for voting is by definition RACIST.
I cannot imagine how a person's race would affect his or her ability to be a good president.

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eileen10 7 months, 1 week ago

My comment was put in the wrong place. It's for wow.

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GwenFrost 7 months, 1 week ago

Why is it a question about who supports who because of their race!!!!!! Ask the question vice-versa!!!!! We support who we want just as anyone else does. The statement has always come up but more often it's stated that Black people want to make it racial, so who is asking this question??????????? We have never had a choice b4 because the opportunity has only arisen once; so why this question. We all have a choice this time, so let's vote and move on, because again whomever it is we must move on and make the best of our own lives!!!!!!!!!!! The President cannot improve us, we must do it for ourselves whatever our race is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

Well according to you people Racism doesn't exist. I wish I lived in your world. Because everytime a person of color walks by you and grab your purse just a little tighter it shows that racism still exists and you believe in the ignorant stereotypes which a lot of you on this page in past post have made very clear that you believe in.

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

You said "you people" and "Racism" in the same sentence. Just sayin...

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

@ spelchek I am not some raging black man anybody can say you people especially when i am talking to you people on the forum I probably could have worded it differently but you got me!!!!! LOLOLOLOL

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wow 7 months, 1 week ago

Guess you didn't get my point. 1st President Obamna is the best person for the job right now. Could he do a better job "yes" has he had all the answers "No', but right now, he is the best person for the job and it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. YET...the fact that we've had 40 plus President's who were all "Anglo Men" is an issue which can't be denied...because for a long time "WOMEN and PEOPLE OF COLOR" were not allowed to run fo this high office...and historians tend to want to skid around the reasons why that happened. people want to skew the issue of equal womens rights, people want to shy away from why there are still segregated organizations in America today...so the issue of who is voting for Obama because of his race is relevant, but it is also something that sholdl be discussed with an open mind working towards resolving some issues that have not been truly admitted to and therefore unresolved.

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

Are you talking about segregated racist organizations like NAACP, BET-TV, Miss Black America, Lincoln University Homecoming Queen, etc.?

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

@JCLIFER Naacp formed to stop racism!
BET formed because MTV would not play black music Miss Black America formed because black women were not allowed to compete in Miss America Pageant. Lincoln University Homecoming Queen: It is a historically Black College and if you look up all of the past homecoming queens there have been three white LU homecoming Queens since 2000

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

"BET formed because MTV would not play black music" -- Bunch of malarkey. What a bunch of stuff.

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

Instead of Malarkey why don't you research but that is how you tea party republicans do everything FACTS DON'T MATTER TO YOU. BET founded an on air in 1980 First black video on MTV 1983 Michael Jackson's Billie Jean 3 years after BET started.

FACTS ARE A GOOD THING DON'T BE AFRAID OF THEM!

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

You're trying to convince me that MTV (full of liberals) wouldn't play black videos until BET came about?

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

MTV came out as white rock station at its inception

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

So J.J. Jackson could be considered racist?

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TickledPink 7 months, 1 week ago

Actually, it was when CBS threatened to pull rights for ALL their music that MTV started airing videos by black musicians, but yes, that was 3 years AFTER BET went on the air. You don't have to like facts, but that doesn't change them.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

Of course by the 90's you had to go to VH1 to even see a music video by a White artist.... well that or the Country video station.

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

Did anyone go after BET to get them airing white videos?

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

wrong again the first black video playe was Billie Jean by Michael Jackson in 1983 Grace i believe i said that a few comments before. The ones you speak of came after this.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

That brings back memories thanks Graceful. I even remember the "Electric Avenue" video playing on MTV and it would have had to have been before Billy Jean.

Of course by the late 80's we all had to avoid MTV until the Classic segment aired because it was nothing but black videos. And stupid gameshows although the one with the Brady physics questions were kinda fun.

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

"Instead of Malarkey why don't you research but that is how you tea party republicans do everything FACTS DON'T MATTER TO YOU." -- I was merely being Bidenesque.

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

So if what you say is true, why are these racist things still existing? Why do blacks want to perpetuate racial division and stereotypes?

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

not perpetuating anything they are there to keep a fair playing field without these associations. There would be no watchdog to keep us from returning to the racist past from which we came 50 years ago.....

BET keeps black people informed about news that relates to them. Although it is nice now that they actually do some news again and not just videos oh by the way BET is owned by Viacom not Black owned anymore.

Prime exxample a black kid gets shot here in town on the eastside no news coverage but a white kid gets shot at and its on all the news channels! Columbia is notorious for this. White kid graduates valedictorian and gets news profile or write up in NT. Minority kid gets valedictorian no coverage. Small towns and big cities are all the same when it come to this that is why in STL they have the St louis American and the Evening Whirl. These are the oldest black newspapers in the country that focus on black people in the news whether it is good or bad. Why can't it be for the upliftment of a culture nobody complains about univision but they always complain about BET

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

When we talk about racism in America, we need to remember that "racism" isn't the same thing as calling names, or holding racial stereotypes. Racism is about power.

If I go to the ghetto, maybe some black people will call me names, or maybe I'll feel uncomfortable because I'm in the minority. But who cares? It's the ghetto. I don't want to go there. Nothing I need or want is there.

But if I'm black, I might be the only black person in a college classroom, or in a white-collar workplace. That's not necessarily any specific person's "fault," that's just the society we live in.

And we can't forget that one of the reasons our society is this way has to do with slavery. Remember: In the original draft of the constitution, blacks were considered property, and 3/5ths of a white person. Blacks were not human beings in the original constitution! We fought a civil war over whether whites were inherently better (if you doubt that, use Google to look up the Declarations of Secession. The whole idea is that states have a "right" to declare that blacks are legal property.) Then we had Jim Crow, lynchings, etc. That sort of deep history doesn't go away overnight.

Imagine if we tried to do away with other elements of the original constitution. Imagine we tried to get rid of the Presidency, or Congress, or the Supreme Court, or the freedom of speech, and so on. You think those ideas would just go away?

I find it so ironic that for years, a certain group of people told blacks that "You're property. You're not human. You're not as good. You don't belong."

Now, people from that same group say things like, "There is no racism" or "Everyone is racist and it all evens out." They want black people to just be quiet about race now. If anyone tries to say, hey, racism is a part of our country and it hasn't just vanished in the past 50 years, then they say that I'm nursing "white guilt." Interesting.

I'm not guilty. But I am realistic. We can't just pretend that we don't live with our history.

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

& the Tea Partiers want to go back to the original constitution as the forefathers originally wrote it. Therefore RACISTS!

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

That's a good point. When people say, "We need to go back to what the founders originally intended," well, the founders intended to live in a white supremicist nation. They also intended to live in a nation where only male property owners could vote. That's our origins. We can escape from our history, but we can't hide from it.

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

Cain for Prisident! Serously. Don't care what color his skin is, but he would be a way better president than Obama.

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

Of course, we shouldn't live in the past. Individual decisions matter. But those individual decisions take place in a social and historical context. Some people have more options than others. A black kid in the ghetto needs to figure a way out... but if his great-great grandparents hadn't been denied an education, or hadn't been lynched, or had been able to own property, or had been able to get a job besides a servant, or had been allowed to move to a better neighborhood, that kid might not be in the ghetto today.

I don't know what to do about that. I don't have a good answer. Sticking our head in the sand, or blaming it all on that one kid today, isn't it.

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

"...great-great grandparents hadn't been denied an education?"

Heck- my grandparents all had less than a 5th grade education and they didn't live in a ghetto. My grandfathers had to drop out of school to work hard to help feed their families. My grandmothers didn't finish high school either. They worked to help feed their families too.

Excuses. Excuses. Excuses...

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

Right, but they weren't LEGALLY denied an education. They didn't live under "seperate but equal," which we all know was quite unequal. Your grandparents made their choice regarding their education. Back in the day, blacks didn't have a choice. Many colleges didn't even accept blacks until the mid-20th century. That's not an "excuse." That's just the actual facts of history.

You know this is true. You're just trying to play games here.

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os2hank 7 months, 1 week ago

Sorry you are wrong again: James Webster Smith was admitted into the United States Military Academy at West Point. He did not graduate; however, 3 years later Henry O. Flipper was admitted... in which he graduated in 1877 as West Points first black graduate.

Of you have Richard Greener, the first African-American graduate of Harvard also in 1870. I believe that is BEFORE the mid-20 century. And if you live in JC how can you forget the they is a college right here that was started by Africa-American Soldiers, can you guess it's name???

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

I didn't say there weren't any colleges blacks could go to. I just said there were many colleges that, until recently, did not admit blacks.

Mizzou admitted its first black student in 1950. Yes, they could go to other schools, but not the state's flagship school. That's pretty typical.

Again, don't play games. Be serious.

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

Lincoln was created by black soldiers because most colleges would not let them in. That is why we have HBCUs (Historically Black Colleges & Universities)....

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

...and the government gave them a land grant.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

Doctor Greene would disagree with you.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

The three fifths rule, which was actually in the articles of the confederation as well, had nothing to do with counting a person, Black or otherwise, as a person by race. It was about taxation. It also excluded Indians who did not pay taxes. It also did not mention race except for Indians as a matter of fact but listed all those "Bound in service for a number of years" which included Whites as well.

Depending on their geographical location ethnic groups that are considered White were denied just as much. Irish, German, Slavic, Jew, Christian, you name it. Even here in the United States.

By comparison there is only one group legally hindered or obstructed from opportunities in education and employment today. One group that is not given a special bonus that all other "people" are blessed with.

The article clearly shows that judging people from politicians to Street Joe is a fact of life and everyone does it. Yet there is only one race that must pay a penalty for it?

Ya that's fair. Switching victims is not Justice it is just another form of injustice.

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

"White people complaining about racism is like rich people complaining about taxes." -- It's true. In no way shape or form can racism happen to "white people". It's a well known fact. It's also known that "rich people" don't have the right to complain about keeping the money they earned and worked hard for. Only the poor have the right to complain about the rich's tax rates and how they should pay more because they need more of their money. I'll bet some poor person looks at you as "rich". Let's put your money where your mouth is and start with your tax rates.

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

Are you serious spelchek or are you being sarcastic? Can't tell because we almost never agree on anything.

By the way I know some black people that are racist towards white people the door revolves both ways.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

Affirmative Action is nothing but a legal penalty. Of course you don't want that getting out because YOU are not a victim of it now are you?

Way to go right to the real form of debate the liberal race oppressors relish. Name calling, and hands in the air drama. Classy.

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

Look connor, since I'm not a chump on here trying to play games, I'll admit your statements about the 3/5ths compromise are correct (at least according to the Wiki article we both looked at).

But the fact that the 3/5ths thing is tax related (and, as the article pointed out, it was proposed by the NORTH) doesn't mean that it doesn't reflect white supremacy. The compromise was a result of the South trying to have it both ways: blacks are legally property, but for the purposes of Congressional representation they are counted as people.

My facts about affirmative action are accurate. They are all in the Supreme Court case Grutter v. Bollinger, which I suggest you read to learn what is and is not legal "affirmative action."

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

Again your 3/5th rule included Whites as well. The South as you put actually would have liked to have seen no "In Service" People counted for tax purposes but all counted equally as people for representation. Race had nothing to do with it from a legal standpoint.

As for your claim that affirmative action is only in education I have no clue where that came from. Government agencies and other private employers have used Affirmative Action legislation and Executive orders to weigh more heavily by race, to form quota systems (which are grossly over weighted when utilized and often disguised as "Goals" ) and even bestow quite commonly bonus points in evaluations of applicants. Education seems to be an area that is under fire currently and there are many cases which apply to AA as a whole.

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

" i f you cannot accept the history of this nation (including Black History) then We are doomed to repeat it." "erased all history" --Like removing the confederate flag from historical sights?

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

it is not is still flown in the south where the confederates were from!!! Do people complain about it? yes But it is still flown and they have every right to do so.

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

Ok, but MO took them down to save the political hide of Dick Gephart (D). Good to see a democrat (I'm dangerously assuming) understand the concept.

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MO4LIFE 7 months, 1 week ago

That wa wrong because the confederate flag is just as much a part of the history of this country as the stars & stripes.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

That scenario is already playing out in South Africa. I am sure you would be happy there right now as you have just written a glimpse of your own utopian dream. Much like most haters of your ilk who loudly attempt to celebrate the so called upcoming population swing to minority majority.

I have never advocated any one enslaving or oppressing another. Not once. I have simply pointed out that ALL of us have been victims of judging by others and all of us have ancestors who were enslaved and/or oppressed in some manner so why give one race a pass because of it and not all of us? Some of us suffer from legal oppression even today to pay for the sins of all of our ancestors. Yes even yours.

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TickledPink 7 months, 1 week ago

Obviously none of us are judging you on your looks - we can't see you. Therefore we have to judge you on your character, which I for one find lacking. The attempt to justify bigotry is dispicable. I personally feel that yours is the type attitude we are trying to educate out of our next generation. I personally have no problem with an eventual decline of "white" people, "black" people, "yellow" people, etc and a world where there aren't separate races because then, MAYBE then, we can all just be people. It will happen over hundreds if not thousands of years, but it will happen.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

I am sure you have a very defined idea of my looks and yes you are judging me by them. As for character you have shown yours in your preoccupation with race and race only. I have not condoned bigotry of anykind here I simply stated it is a fact of life that all of us deal with and it encompasses many forms from hair color to toe length and everything in between.

So I take it from your final hope for mankind you are against "wonderful Diversity"?

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TickledPink 7 months, 1 week ago

Considering this is my first weigh-in on this particular conversation, you know nothing. I didn't vote for Obama because he was black. I voted for him because McCain chose Palin and she wasn't an option. I'll vote for him again because Romney's America scares the he!! out of me. If Romney was black, I'd still vote for Obama because I feel he's the better man.

I didn't say you condoned it, I said you try to justify it, which you just did again. I have no pony in this slavery issue - my family (other than my Pawnee great grandmother) didn't come here until well after the Civil War.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

Oh it's your first weigh in under this particular article not this discussion which has been ongoing here for months.

As for your accusation I have never even justified it I have simply acknowledge it is so no more or less than acknowledging that the sun is shining.

As for slavery the word most associated with slaves in CANADA was a derivative of name Pawnee so you do have some ties to it and just as much as some who try and use it as an excuse to bring limitations on others.

You should be more open minded in your view of others and the world around you.

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TickledPink 7 months, 1 week ago

Actually, the word "panis" referred to the aboriginal people themselves, not just the ones who were slaves.

For the record, I comment on many articles here but rarely about race. I much prefer to discuss religion.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

I have seen you comment on political views before. Which as far as this article goes is one and the same discussion really.

Just to qualify something for my own reasons. I am assuming you are a White female. Am I correct?

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TickledPink 7 months, 1 week ago

Yes, I comment on politics all the time. Doesn't mean I don't prefer to debate religion. Politics doesn't always include race - at least it doesn't for me. Comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Yes, I'm a white female, under 40, straight, professional career, children ... anything else you'd like to know? I've no problem with sharing. :)

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

LOL. Pretty much all politics in America today envelope race in some way because so much of it revolves around spending. NO need to get nasty just my opinion of it.

And no I don't need anymore information I am playing around with a little program for word association. I have been working on it for a while now and I am testing it out. It helps thin out the trolls and shills when in discussions online.

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GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago

Hey, lets not talk about race anymore. Lets talk about things that bring us together like abortion rights, religion, and political positions. The simple fact is race should be inconsequential except to one's own family. I'm proud of my German heritage. Don't think it is superior to any other, but I'm still proud of it. My ancestors were subjugated by the Romans, but I don't think the ancestors of Roman society owe me anything for it. Rather than looking at the distant past, we need to fix the now. Every American of every race is suffering under the current administration. People on this board will deny it, but just about every objective measure shows it. So, forget Obama's race...his failure is 100% ideological not race based. But if you just have to do the math, his failure breaks down to 70% white and 30% black (based on the mytholigized 3/5 rule).

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

Well said? Please, that analogy about the Romans is the dumbest thing I've read on this thread. There is absolutely no comparison between Europeans being held as slaves in ancient Rome, and blacks being held as slaves in the United States. We were lynching blacks 50 years ago. That is not the "distant past." Good gravy.

And you know, I have never heard a black person say they are "owed" anything specific as a result of slavery. Of course, if you listen to Fox or Rush, you'd think every black person is walking around with their hand out.

If you open your eyes and go out and meet people, you'll find that's not the case.

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GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago

You're right, not all slavery is created equal. Some people's personal freedom is more valuable than others right? And you are right, there has never been several Congressmen in the congressional black congress calling for reparations. Must have just been a misprint. And you are right, America should atone for anything within the last 50 years. Done and done, now we can do awary with the meaningless discussion of race and move on to religion.

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

I am 100% in favor of reparations for any person who was enslaved or lynched. Why does the government not take care of all these people? It wouldn't take much to put a fill-in form on the us.gov website and let the victims complete it to get a reparation payment. Good God, it is only the right thing to do.

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

Not every objective measure, eh?

dailydish.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e2017ee42f1091970d-popup

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GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago

Ah yes, the objective BLS, who counts part time and seasonal jobs the same as career jobs, and releases unemployment claims reports that excludes the state with the highest level of unemployment. Paragons of statistical chicanary, but you knew that before you posted the link. The nation is in a deathspiral financially, with crumbling infrastruce, record unemployment, record deficits with nothing to show for it, outrageous fuel prices and no energy policy other than the Solyndra-esque rathole. You can lie to yourself about the state of the nation, don't lie to me.

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

Oh, right, by "objective measure," you meant "measures that say what I already believe."

Anything else is just a liberal conspiracy right?

Riiiiight.

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GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago

Hyperbole. You injected BLS into the debate. I gave you the well published reasons that BLS data is flawed. Take a stats class then look at the internals. An objective measure would never have as many flaws as BLS, and they certainly wouldn't be reported. BLS data would not pass muster in an undergrad stats class, except as an example of "don't do this". I said nothing of a liberal conspiracy. Are you owning up to one tree? You are a liberal and you did inject BLS into the debate. You may be on to something.

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GrumpyGus 7 months, 1 week ago

Almost forgot...my list of national problems that you chose not to even attempt to refute...well played.

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JCLifer 7 months, 1 week ago

Let's talk about gay marriage. That is a travesty that affects persons of all races. It should be easy for all of us to get behind this issue.

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

Let's just cut to the chase here. One of the main tactics of the conservative "movement" is to stoke white anxiety by acting like rights are a zero-sum game. Just like the story that gay marriage will "destory traditional marriage," the manufactured narrative is that any acknowledgment of racial inequality, past or present, represents a threat to white people. Anything good happening to someone who isn't me is a reason to be scared.

Look, white people. We're going to be fine. When we're a minority, nobody is going to enslave us, or sell mothers and fathers and children to different families, or bomb our churches, or drag our young people behind cars, or organize the largest domestic terrorist organization in U.S. history to terrorize us, deny us from voting or attending the same schools as others, redline us into specific neighborhoods, hang us from trees, or pass laws to prevent us from marrying dark-skinned people.

I mean, what kind of person would do those things?

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

Ya let's cut to the chase here shall we. The simple fact is that women like Sequoia have no problems making up instances of racism and claiming it is so devastating because although they are White they are not the ones who must pay the price. In fact they benefit from it.

No one will deny your voting rights or attending schools? No? But supporting laws that require mandatory arrests and court orders that take effect based on gender before a trial is alright? Expanding Federal Power and felony convictions sure does begin to limit voting rights as well.

Armed with a view of mob rule they will change the Constitution to suit themselves. Victims of this ideology have been property rights, gun ownership, access to one's own children and massive wealth redistribution just to name a few.

The Constitution as written was meant to protect all individuals from mob rule without it we become "Three wolves and two sheep voting on what's for dinner".

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

What are you talking about? When have I ever made up an instance of racism and claimed it was devastating? When have I ever supported a law that requres "mandatory arrests and court orders that take effect based on gender before a trial"? You know I've never said anything about, uh, whatever it is you're talking about.

You're flailing, dude. Either argue with me, or don't. Don't just assign me a position and argue with that. That's weak sauce.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

You cannot even remember what you wrote. You have blamed racism for any number of things and implied even more. From poverty to a taxation scheme almost 250 years ago.

As for the other examples I made to show clear examples of Mob Rule violating the Constitution and how they effect the ones that actually bear the weight of your White guilt.

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

No I didn't. I just said racism is real, and we can't bury our heads in the sand about it. I never said that one factor is the direct cause of a bunch of different phenomonena. In fact, if you read my comment above, I said that individual decisions matter, and that they take place in a social and historical context, of which race and racism is a part. I don't see how I'm laying blame for anything.

I guess that's too complex for you. When someone mentions race or racism, all you hear is blame and guilt. You hear either "It's all racism" or "It's all individual responsibility." You hear either/or. That's your problem.

I never said that any specific person's plight is or is not a result of racism.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

The only thing complex around here is how you attempt to hide your true intentions and then go back and twist your own words.

You have interchanged racism with slavery over and over again. Blamed it on things from a lack of education in one's ancestors to poverty today.

Whatever, as usual I have schooled you on every topic from the Articles to Affirmative Action. While you bumble along attempting to spread the White guilt to keep your own gravy train going.

And let's not forget ending every comment with some form of insult. That's classic liberal there.

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Sequoia 7 months, 1 week ago

My gravy train? I'm not sure how white guilt gets ME on the gravy train.

Anyway, I wouldn't insult you if you didn't make it so easy. :)

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spelchek 7 months, 1 week ago

"Do black people support Obama because he's black?"
Well I can tell you that there are black Hispanics that were looking out for their interests too. Yet, we categorize them into the "Hispanic vote". What is the definition of black according to the AP?

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earlsmusic 7 months, 1 week ago

This entire thread should be posted at all Missouri tourism/visitor centers so travelers would understand what they are encountering.

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connor 7 months, 1 week ago

Something tells me this type of discussion isn't limited to Missouri. In fact my bet would be we here in the Show-me state are somewhat sheltered to what is really going on. I came across this editorial/Blog from a Gay Political analyst/radio personality about the death of White Guilt in Chicago. Very informative.

hillbuzz.org/extreme-black-anger-in-chicago-at-obama-he-done-did-it-he-ruined-it-for-us-white-people-dont-feel-guilty-no-more-and-wont-do-stuff-for-us-now-64493

While the liberal posters will gnash their teeth and call anyone who stands up for themselves racist it is losing it's bite. Thankfully.

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