wow 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Sometime during the tour when talking about all this beautiful southern heritage, expert workmanship on the home and all the various other stuff associated with trying to make this American era so appealing...don't forget to tell the other part about how the people who actually built these homes and worked the platations were treated. Don't forget to admit that the owner's "really didn't buiid these homes or business's. Don't forget to tell the tourist how the real builder's and plantation worker's were nothing more than mere property that these celebrated/celebrating owner's used, killed, murdered, raped and did what ever to. No I'm not lioving inthe past....but it would be nice not to forget those entitiled people that Romney was talking about. It would be nice to see how early American's made sure the scales were tilted unequally for women and "non rich white men".

bluesfan13 5 months, 3 weeks ago

So anyone with a home built before the Civil War automatically built that home on slave labor???

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Ya there were no craftsmen or laborers who were White before 1865. Didn't ya know that?

asb 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Plantation architecture would not have existed but for the labor available for the price of food and dirtfloor housing of owned people. Wow is correct, the vast majority of antibellum architecture rests on the backs and lives of slaves. Denial of this reality, rather than its inclusion in any presentation with focus of the civil war, is revisionist and counter productive. There were doubtless many white craftsmen and even laborers involved, but the plantation culture and resources responsible for these homes were built by owned people, slaves. If you're going to brag about the result, you have to include the means, or you're just making noise.

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

How does any of this apply to us here today?

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

I mean- seriously. This is a homes tour of some neat homes. Slavery is old and gone. No one alive today was involved in any of that stuff. It was resolved almost 150 years ago. We don't know if slaves were used to build these homes, and if they were, it doesn't matter.

Can't we get on with things and solve real problems that we have now in our country? Looking back and dragging up old issues that were resolved 150 years ago is kind of pointless. Let's move on and look forward and solve the problems we have today. The past is behind us. The folks who did that are dead and gone. We cannot help them.

TrueStory 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Geeze My family heritage involved a home like this and no slaves were involved at all. Really, not everyone owned them. I have a real problem with blaming every white family for the sins of others. There were white slaves also, they just didn't get housing, but that is not important. I guess it just depends on what you call a slave. Egypt is an example....

asb 5 months, 3 weeks ago

The architecture is antebellum and based mostly on the slave economy of the south. Yes, you can find similar structures in England from that period, but in the US it's a slave based plantation architecture. It isn't just a homes tour, it's a tour with a "focus on the civil war." And, I don't mean they shouldn't do it, but they should include the origins of the architecture in the tour. Whether a given family ever did or didn't own slaves isn't relevant, this architecture strongly represents slavery. Is slavery an absolute? You is or you isn't? No. Many economic situations are slavery in various ways. Was the American exploitation of African forced immigration and legal ownership of people a spectacular example of the worst of our nature? Yes.

eileen10 5 months, 3 weeks ago

From the things I see and hear no one cares if slaves built anything or not and this comes from the years I have lived down here versus up North. Over the years I've heard things like " send them back to Africa and see how they like it" or "Bring back slavery" and the more blacks push the worse it gets. Can't say I actually understand the way things are but that's because I didn't grow up down here. It's pretty crazy.

eileen10 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Just caught the mistake. Forget the "no one" There are people who do care.

TrueStory 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Um no I don't think the shape of a building or when it was built has anything to do with slavery. I think you think too much about the subject. The US was not the first or the last place to have slavery. Just go enjoy the beautiful old houses. If you have such a feel of slavery make a speech while you are there.

asb 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Yes, the discussion has expanded beyond the article. But, the architecture of a particular time is an important look at that history. I've speeched enough, and I've seen many of the homes on the tour, so I'll be putting up my Christmas decorations, heathen that I am.

wow 5 months, 3 weeks ago

We'red talking about Callway County...that's where these homes are at. Ya haven't fogrotten that Callway County was slave owning area and that the local Sheriff was hung for defending a "SLAVE " who was wqrongly convicted of killing the guy who owned one of these kinda homes... her "SLAVE OWNE/MASTER for RAPING HER! So, again...tell it all!

GrumpyGus 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Luckily wow and asb are here to remind us that the U.S. engaged in slavery prior to 1863, otherwise we rubes would never have known. Ignore their finger wagging. It is a leftist tactic to never let past sins be paid in full, so payment is never ending. They know not one person alive in the U.S. had anything to do with slavery, but if everyone gets past it, they can't use it as a wedge point for their social agenda.

The full story is that a fine President and many white men and women of conscious abolished slavery in this country faster than any country in history. From the time of the colonies to abolition was only 240+/- years. Most civiliations had slavery for more than a millenia. The U.S. is a positive story about slavery. We did the right thing, and fast.

But never let a wedge issue go to waste, right wow and asb?

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

This isn't even a wedge issue. It is a non-isssue. No one alive was a slave and no one alive owned any slaves. Issue is over. Dead. Gone. Not sure why the discussion here even got started about slavery. The article was about a homes tour. Sure, the homes were built during the civil war. So what?

I am agreeing with Grumpy Gus that it appears there are some in here who are trying to stir the pot and make something out of nothing. They just look like whining fools complaining about something that never affected them, and that was over with 150 years ago.

For those of you who keep bringing up slavery- what is your point? What do you want? Why do you keep bringing this up? What do you hope to accomplish? Seriously- this obsession cannot be healthy- and that is all it appears to be. There is no rational reason to keep bringing it up. What is your deal? Why are you stuck in the past, feeling like a victim to something you never experienced?

asb 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Not a wedge is correct. Not much relevance to the article either. But it is an important part of our history. It is incorrect to say there's no more impact today from the slavery of the cotton south. The legacy of slavery can be seen in white attitudes towards blacks, and of black attitudes toward themselves and whites. Slavery was introduced here for the simple purpose of making money, based on the false and pandered theory that Africans were lesser humans. That belief remains today in the minds of millions of white and black people. 240 or so years to undo it may be quick compared to cultures where it was endemic for centuries, but it was artificial in the European culture of America, and took far too long to overcome. The horrific falsehoods that supported slavery are perfect examples of propaganda and are very instructive. Any story of slavery should indeed point to the efforts of academics and political leaders of the time who fought slavery, while reminding us all that blacks were sometimes hung for learning to read. The inability to see the origins, impacts and legacies of slavery is exactly why the issue is still alive and needs discussion. Get over it? Eventually, but not in your or my lifetime. Tell European jews to get over the holocast, and then listen to the fundamentalist president of Iran deny it ever happened. Sorry, it's important.

GrumpyGus 5 months, 3 weeks ago

It is a false comparison, Ahmedenijad to someone like me who refuses to let the sins of our past slave owners dictate our actions today. I am not a slavery denier, and I don't want slavery today. Ahmedenijad denies the Holocaust and wants all modern Jews dead. How is that even equivalent? Its not, but again you know that. How the U.S. dealt with slavery is one of the greatest achievements in man's relationship to man, but that is not the story that keeps the leftist social agenda moving forward. If there is any negativity about how whites and blacks view one-another, it is a by-product of focusing on the sins instead of the redemption.

Sequoia 5 months, 3 weeks ago

I'd encourage everyone to watch Ken Burns' documentary on the civil war. You can stream it on Netflix.

It is true that we have come a long way. Part of the reason why that documentary is so powerful is that it is so hard to imagine that sort of thing happening today. Anyone concerned about the tone of politics and race relations today will take heart at how far we have come. But, it is also important to remember that 150 years is not a very long time. I've lived in the old confederacy, and, let me tell you, time moves more slowly in some places than others. That "redemption" came with a LOT of blood, and it didn't end with the war. In those civil war battles, you had 3,000 people dying in a matter of minutes. It was a crazy, crazy time in our history.

And, this is off topic, but after months of reading Gus comparing Obama and Democrats to socialists, Nazis, and all sorts of evil things... NOW he's worried about "false comparisons." Incredible.

GrumpyGus 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Well, I guess I can compare your last statement to a lie. Never accused anyone of being a Nazi. You can deny Democrats act like socialists (spread the wealth around, rich paying their fair share, etc.), that would be misleading as well. Your guy won, go soak the rich until the teat runs dry. Here we come Greece! Back to the topic...

John 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Nearly every noted authority or recognized historian will adivise all to be cautious of history learned on television, the same is true when dealing with specific so-called historians such as Ken Burns and Kearns-Goodwin. They have agenda behind their productions. . .

asb 5 months, 3 weeks ago

The comparison is valid in that history leaves its mark and we need to know history or nitwits have their way. I agree that overcoming slavery was a great American achievement, the Lincoln Memorial ain't for nothing. We agree that the left feels the history is more important than the right, but I think that's because the left sees solutions in history and knowledge, while the right often tries to pretent it didn't happen and that the legacy is an agenda rather than an issue. And comparing yourself to Ahmad is a little wacked Gus, He isn't saying we should let the past be passed, he's saying the jews have orchestrated the lie of the holocast and that Isreael should be destroyed. Are you really in that club Gus?

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Thank you.

However, I would hate to call another constitutional convention these days. No doubt we would have a simple contitution that says "Give it to me for free!" and that would be about it.

GrumpyGus 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Did you read the post correctly asb? The comparison is false for the reasons I outlined. So no, I refuted the comparison. The Lincoln Memorial stands for nothing if half of society thinks we must still set social policy based on the reasons for which Lincoln and other thinking Americans fought their fight. The fight was won, Jim Crow was defeated years later, we have utter and unequivocal equality. Why rehash the negative despite the positive? So we can have a wedge issue. Hyphenated-Americans, graduating dunces out of public schools, and mandatory political correctness. That is how liberals win, divide and conquer.

Sequoia 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Lifer, you seem to be saying that history doesn't matter, and that we should never learn anything about any time that we're not currenlty living through. You aren't really saying THAT, are you?

Surely you're not saying that ANY discussion of history is irrational and amounts to "living in the past," are you? Wouldn't you agree that it is important for people to know facts about the history of their country? As a conservative, wouldn't you agree that we ought not to forget the past?

I understand if you're arguing with other posters here, but answer me this: If one of these houses was actually built by slaves, and the tour guide mentions that, do you object to that or not? If yes, then we have an issue. If you don't, then carry on...

It seems like the posters are just saying that the fact that a slave built a house (if that is the case) ought to be mentioned as part of a history tour of that house. I'm not sure how that amounts to "complaining" or "feeling like a victim."

Some white people seem to have the view that any discussion of slavery and race amounts to an attempt to blame them for it. I don't understand this anxiety about being blamed. No one is blaming you for slavery. No one is saying you're guilty, or that you should feel guilty. Do you disagree with that? Can you be more specific about who is blaming you, and how?

I mean, I'm white, and I'm fascinated by the civil war, slavery, and how that past influences our present. I understand that slaveholders and apologists for slavery committed sins, but I don't feel guilty just because I have the same skin color as slaveholders.

I just don't understand why you feel blamed, who you feel is blaming you, and all this anxiety about it. That's what seems irrational to me.

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Missouri average slave ownership per slave owning individual was never very high at all. Throughout most of the period prior to 1860 the average was less than three per slave owning family and that average was greatly influenced by a very few cotton producing farms, tobacco, hemp, lead mines and river boat businesses. Most Slave owners had one slave only.

Cole County had an average of 5 slaves per owner in 1860 but again was heavily influenced by river transportation and the farms outside of Jefferson City. Callaway county actually had more slaves but the same average per owner. Basically ownership of slaves in large enough numbers to be used as construction crews if only temporary could have only been accomplished in the South Eastern part of the State.

It is interesting to note that many small farm families who moved to this area in the earlier 1800's during the agricultural land depletion in Virginia and the Carolinas owned slaves while in those Eastern areas and then didn't own slaves when finally settling in Missouri according to US census data.

I have not found any evidence of a large number of slaves being used as construction crews although leasing slave labor out on a temporary basis may have been normal and not necessarily recorded in and around Jefferson City. The "jack of all trades" situation of slavery in Missouri would certainly indicate that some slave labor was used in housing construction but I would seriously question it being assumed to have been a significant amount by any stretch of the imagination.

asb 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Now that's history, thank you very much. Missouri's relatively poor farmland would help explain the low ratio. And, the greater personal contact between owner and a few slaves may well have contributed to the schism on the topic experienced here. Thanks again Mr. Clay.

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

asb There are many works written about how the Slaves in Missouri were treated as more equal partners than actual slaves but I don't usually attempt to use them as a reference because, well, even I will admit there more than likely is some bias there and under today's race relations no one wants to hear that anyway. However although my family which settled here in the mid 1820's did not own slaves in Missouri that I can find evidence of in the 1960's we did purchase some land in Southern Callaway county that had at one point housed slaves. This property even came with an old Black gentleman that had complete run of the place and made no bones about it having been where his grandfather had been born and farmed as a slave. He even mentioned that his Grandfather had been a pallbearer for his original owner's son as they had grown up together.

For all I know it could just be a story I am not presenting this as fact but that is what the old guy told me when I was a youngster and even if it is false it does present a unique insight into Missouri slavery attitudes and how they manifested themselves after the civil war.

asb 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Your story is real, no matter to whom or where it applies. Slavery isn't black and white (sorry). Gentility in the face of oppression is a comon literary theme, along with mindless brutality within peerages or family or between classes. Faulkner made a living with his ability to point to human foibles and beauty in every possible way. American slavery was particularly bad in the organized, contrived, legally enforced, and academically justified system that was put together to make it work. It was church supported (and opposed in minority) and for one thing, to build and support an economy that could've waited on mechanization. I'm guesing you've read De Tocqueville's Democracy in America, a windy tome that projects our present race relations like Nostrodomus, based on what he saw in the South's economy. He lamented that such a perfection of western political thought (our constitution) would be soiled for centuries by slavery and dehumanization inspired by greed.

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

I don't feel blamed because I know I have had nothing to do with slavery. I do not wish for slavery, and i am not sad that those times are over. I have been to the Lincoln memorial. I feel no anxiety. I do feel some curiosity. I also feel hatred by folks of other races, and I don't know why they hate me. I never did anything to them. I don't worry about it, because I figure everyone has a right to hate or feel anyway they want. I don't have to joim in or participate however.

I have no problem with learning history. I have no problem with telling everyone that the house was built with slave labor. Weren't the Pyramids in Egypt also built with slave labor? We don't talk much about that.

i just don't understand why slavery in America is brought up over and over and over, and yet other important historical events and concepts are virtually ignored. Is there some point to it?

I don't pretend slavery never happend. I do not deny the holocaust. i cannot change the past anyway. What happened happened. I wasn't there. I can only live in the present and try to plan for the future. I see all sorts of problems in the present day, and I don't see anyone doing much about them. I see people repeating past behaviors and expecting different results. I see all sorts of evil around me. I see some goodness too.

Some of these old houses are neat to look at, but I sure wouldn't want to live in one. The upkeep and utility bills are horrendous. Give me a new well-designed and well-built house anyday. I don't understand the facination by Jeffersonians to cling to the past and refuse to look toward the future. I don't know why they want to save all these old buildings and they do no want growth and progress.

This world pretty much mystifies me most of the time. I won't be around here a whole lot longer, and that is fine with me. This world is a mess and is getting much worse every day. It will be ablessing to leave it, and I look forward to getting out of here.

Sequoia 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Yikes. That's some pessimistic isht. Life is a gift, it's over in a blink. You'll have plenty of time to be dead. Enjoy your body in this world while you can.

I don't think the world is much more of a mess than it ever was. It's the world. Having a body in the world means misfortune. Without a body, how could there be misfortune? I'm certainly thankful to be living in this time and place, as opposed to any time in the past.

We don't talk much about slaves in Egypt? Been to church lately? It's a big part of the Old Testament! Anyway, learning about somethign that happend 150 years ago, just a few generations ago in our own country, is hardly comprable to 1,500 years ago. I don't feel like slavery is brought up "over and over." I still think you're being too sensitive.

I just don't see how a clear-eyed vision of the past, aims for the future, and full participation in the present moment are mutally exclusive.

One of the good things about living in a 100-year old house is that if it is still around today, it was probably built to last, and everything that will go wrong has probably already gone wrong. What needs to be fixed has probably already been fixed.

If you buy a 50-year-old house, you might be moving in right at the end of its life span, and end up with more work. If you buy a 25-year-old house, you might be buying someone's get-rich-quick scheme.

The problem with many new houses is that they aren't well built or well designed. Those McMansions are just drywall with nice carpet.

GrumpyGus 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Better talk to asb about your theory on studying history. We studied ancient history in the 1800s to help us end slavery faster than any nation in history. The ancient truths are the most valid.

Slavery was brought up in the first post of this thread, so while not brought up on a daily basis in every conversation, you can count on a liberal to bring it up first if there is the slightest tangental subject in the fore.

No argument on your last sentence...unless you go with a quality builder, todays houses are crizapp.

Sequoia 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Missouri has a truly fascinating civil war history. There was a big conflict with Kansas, a lot of conflicting sympathies within the state, and the origin story of Jesse James. From what I've read, a lot of people used the anarchy of war to settle old scores with rivals. Cool!

I'd love to see a documentary just about Missouri during the civil war.

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

General Order 11 caused most of the real issues in Missouri that lasted well beyond the Civil War. The hard feelings of some Missouri families towards the Federal Government that spawned acts like those of the James and Younger families started there. Historically fictional but in many ways accurate are popular movies like Clint Eastwoods and the one that came out a few years ago titled "Ride with the Devil" or something like that. The latter really explored some personal relationship and feud type behavior along with an interesting look at male/female relationship manipulations.

asb 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Grace's snips aside, I want to thank the posters in this thread. Slavery is a common point of discussion in these forums, and often devolves quickly to bitter arguing and hyperbole. A number of folks I often clash with have made insightful and informative posts, and man you all may smell funny, but this has been a good discussion. Thank you Wow, Conner, Sequoia, Lifer and Gus. Grace? Go home.

asb 5 months, 3 weeks ago

I take it back.

wow 5 months, 3 weeks ago

ASB...excellent comments. Ponting out that De Tocqueville's refered to "Democracy called in America, a windy tome that projects our present race relations like Nostrodomus, based on what he saw in the South's economy. He lamented that such a perfection of western political thought (our constitution) would be soiled for centuries by slavery and dehumanization inspired by greed". Even though Americans have made progress in the slavery area...there are still issues today which jestasin us back to the reference of slavery, racial injustice and racial hate...or just plan hate and love for doing wrong even when we know what is right. Just read some of the foolish comments about the issue in question. We don't have to agree, and that is a good thing, but some of these comments are really indicators that "HATE" is still alive and well in our community Graceful...your comment " Slavery was not conducive to getting quality work. Slave labor wouldn't work well in acitivties such as building a home except for maybe digging foundations, clean up and like activities". Is insulting to anyone trying realistically understand why so little progress has been made in this area. Sure this is your point of view, but FYI...Slave labor and that of poor whites built this nation. The railroads, every GDMF buildinbg assosicated with our nations capitol. The Empire State building and various other landmarks in this nation...so PAAAAALLLLEEEESE, if you have nothing realistic to comment, please dont't. The only thing your last comment did is prove my original call to tell the entire story about how these antibellum homes came to be in the city of Fulton as justified!!!!

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

You certainly have a very active imagination and a deep rooted hatred on a personal level, I will give you that.

Early Roman slavery had about as much overall impact on today's societies as US slavery did, especially in the areas of construction you are referring to. As far as racism goes you are comparing apples and oranges as a matter of fact. Slavery and racism are not the same thing and you seem to want to attach them together. The first slave owner in America was a Black man and there were many who followed in his foot steps. Slavery of one form or another has been imposed on just about every racial group currently living on this planet and in the course of human history not all that much further back on the timeline than it was for Africans.

Racism on the other hand continues without slavery as you prove just about every time you post.

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

You seem to be very full of hatred. Why are you so angry? What has anyone here done to you?

wow 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Slavery is based on one persons desire to rule over another and may not neccessarily be based on race; however in the case of what occurred here in the good ole USA of A...it certainly had everything to do with the desire to rule over blacks, indians,chinees, etc, etc, etc, anyone that wasn' in the ruling class...ala "rich white males". Furthermore the ill treatment of poor whites was based on ignorance and the..".I'm a rich white guy and thus better than you" thought process. This thought process was futrther amplified towards people of color and the darker the skin the more hatred and ignorant things got. It got soooo ignorant that even after the war that was supposed to have ended all this.."rich white men" made laws that spefically denied people fo color basic human rights...the same things the system of slavery did. Now if that ain't based on race, what is? These ignorant practices continued on for centuries and even though some laws have been changed for the better...somehow "rich white men" continue trying to make sure everybody is reminded just how superior "rich whte men' are suppose to be". I say suppose to be because, thank GOD there are more and more people everyday who have spoken out and said "enough of the BS", equal treament for all and those opposing just that...ya better be ready to fight! Cause the deal about one race being better than another is not only sickening, it's perverted, it's dumb, it's foolish, it's juvinile, and regretfully it's certainly what "rich white men" have been taught all their lives. Some choose not to believe the mess, but more than a few actaully believe they are the choosen few.
Yes we've made progress, but we still have so far to go. We can move a bit closer to resolving things....just buy allowing women the right to equal pay. yes there's more, but this is a start.

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

I have never worked at a place that pays differently based on gender, so I dont know anything about that.
You are bitter about what other people endured over 150 years ago? That makes no sense to me. The discriminatory things you mentioned are all against the law.
I don't get all your anger nor do I get your irrational perceptions.
I am trying to understand, but you have not provided even one example of any harm anyone has done to you, let alone any harm posters in this forum have done to you.
You seem to be fighting 150+ year old ghosts in your head.

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

And that is fine if that is what you want to do, but I cannot see how that helps you in any way. What are you trying to accomplish? What do you want?

wow 5 months, 3 weeks ago

I lost a child due to racial ignorance. My grandfather was beaten darn near to death by some of those "ficticious haters" simply because he was a Negro wearing a United States Army Uniform...the same uniform he wore as he risked his life and bled defending this nation. American's fought to stop Hitler from's racial stuff at the same time blacks wear being lynched, denied voting rights, forced to endure segregation and worse Yet the very German soldiers American's captured and held as enemy POW's were treated better than the colored soldiers who defended this land. Oriental Americans were forced into camps just because. Indians are still living on reservations today! It aint about 150 year ago...the things I've seen in my life have proven to me that racism is a real problem RIGHT NOW and in spite if that being true...there are those still willing to say the negro and other minorities have nothing to compalin about. Yet these are some of the very same people who don't like the idea that white men are fast becomming the minority and their hold on power is shifting away from them!!! WAFJTSI. I'm not interested in white guilt AND YES THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO USE THE RACIAL ANGLE FOR THE WRONG REASONS...but that ain't t me..I just said that if you're gonna tell a story about antibellium houses and the period in which they were built. It sure would help if the entire story was told. But obviously some of you don't know, don't want to know and do';t want other's to know the truth. I really am not surprisesd, because that's nothing new.

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

And obviously some people just want to use racism as an excuse for everything bad that has ever happened to them. Here's a news flash for ya what you just described happens to everyone at some point in their lives and yes everyone suffers from racism as well. So get a grip and stop trying to blame all your problems on White Men or you are going to force issues you would rather not force.

wow 5 months, 3 weeks ago

It's gone from, there's nothing to complain about, thing's have all been fixed, not everyone is a racist stop living in the past, to give me some modern day examples of racial hate. Well now it's back to old THJREATof "don't blame all your problems on White Men or you are going to force issues you would rather not force". OOOOOOR what the Klan is gonna come visit me? Look..whomever...I only got into this issue because it's an intereesting topic which level headed, problem solving people need to deal with and work towards resolving. We all have opinions and that's good as long as we're resolving the issue correctly. Everytime we have a coversation progress is made...because like it's been mentioned this isn't the old day's..and even though we still have a long way to go on racial issues...we have made progress. So no this ain't exactly like the old days. So anyone..and I TRULY MEAN this. i want nothing more than to see American's live a fruitful life. I work hard for what I have..I earned it both good and bad through my own sweat and blood. I've made mistakes and will probaby make a few make a few more...after all I'm human. I love this country, have and always will. See, I have NO qualms about defending myself or those that can't defend themselves. So beware...I swore an oath to defend this nation against all enemies foreign and domestic, that oath I take seriously. In defending this nation I have no problem pointing out the good and bad things. That is so the good things can be improved upon and the bad things can be corrected. ANYONE THAT DOESN'T LIKE THAT and wishes to make threats like at least one other person choose to do......better understand this. This ain't the old days where massa had his way. Be yee black, white, green Kling-on or techa-color. Ya better recognize...I'M A TOTALlY SERIOUS BAMF SHEEP DAWG AND I'M NOT ALONE OR AFRAID TO TAKE CARE OF THE COWARDLY WOLF OR WOLVES TRYING TO DO HARM TO THE INNOCENT FLOCK. Just thought YOU might wanna know that. Thanks to the other's that discussed this issue with respect for differeing opinions no matter what side they were on, at least ya did it without SYA and making threats. Thanks for the coversation

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Thank you for you service and for you love of your country. I am convinced your life experience has been much different than mine. I hope someday I can buy you a cup of coffee and continue learning from you.

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Only someone with a innate need to blame others for their troubles and mistakes see threats all around them. I stand by my prediction if the race haters continue on the road they are on, blaming White men for all their problems there will be an end result that no one wants. If you think that is a threat so be it.

My oath is to the Constitution not the will of the mob or the twisted logic of those seeking to blame others for their short comings.

Got an issue with that? Bring it.

eileen10 5 months, 3 weeks ago

In the wee hours of the morning I commented on an article titled "Library of congress shows diaries from civil war" At least one person felt the main reason for the war was to free the slaves. I'm not sure where to see everything they have released. Anyone know?

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Well it was the main reason. I would even go so far as to say it was the only reason for the conflict. I am not one of these Historians who will throw out some "States Rights" issue as the reason. The big money in the South was dependent on slave agricultural labor and the North was fired up by religious dogma to put a stop to it. Certainly individuals had other causes and politicians had other reasons that were more important for them personally in some cases but if slavery had not been in the mix there never would have been violence.

Just my opinion others disagree of course.

Littleinvestor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Initially, the main reason for the Northern states wanting to keep the Southern states in the Union was because the main source of income for the federal government then was tariffs and harbor fees, and the very best and all weather harbors were in the South. Anti-slavery forces eventually gained great influence as the war went on. Slavery was a terrible institution and the U.S. ended it long after European nations. But it was becoming economically unfeasible in the mid-1800s and would have eventually been ended by the economy anyway. The causes of the Civil War are many.

eileen10 5 months, 3 weeks ago

In school years and years ago we were taught the war was fought to free the slaves but I learned differently drom various posts here and I also found out there were a number of things I learned that weren't true. There was a lot of coverup. I was made to feel people from other countries weren't as good as us. whites were better than people of color and Betsy ross sewed the flag. Hopefully kids in school now have history books that tell the truth.

TickledPink 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Nah, won't happen as long as social studies books have to go through right wing approval. If you want real history you have to forget 90% of what you're taught in school and read up on things on your own. Years ago I came across a book that completely changed my view on history called "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen. I highly recommend it if you're interested in a more accurate view of our country.

eileen10 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Thank you TickledPink. I will read the book. I read a lot now after stumbling on this place. I never really gave much thought to things concerning history or politics so I'm really getting an education now.

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

How can it be right wing approval when the schools are all run by ultra left wing fanatics, taught in universities by other ultra left wing kooks?

TickledPink 5 months, 3 weeks ago

I will say, most higher education institutions are more left leaning. I'm talking elementary school which is a whole different ball game. I work in the industry so I get to see both sides of it. Elementary text books have to go through an approval process and those panels are overwhelmingly conservative.

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Most follow one of three boards that approve text books. The Midwest tends to follow the Texas board and go with what they approve rather than funding their own studies. Even then they are mostly filled with Liberal revisionist history and fluff studies of insignificant importance.

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

The Truth apparently is a very fluid thing. It all depends on the person's point of view and their life experiences. My Truth may be a whole lot different than your Truth, and you better respect mine or else you are a hater.

wow 5 months, 3 weeks ago

The truth is like a cirlce, it is all encompassing. There is no this without that, no Ying without a Yang, no Alpha without the Omega. The truth isn't always fair or pretty, but it's real...that's all I'm saying There is no need to hide the facts of how this country evolved into what it is today. Why is it that people so willingly accept the Pope as the head of the Catholic Church, yet no where in the bible is there a reference to such a person? That only happens becasue peoiple want to believe in the Pope. Yet these very same people refuse to accept the vast amounbt of proof that one group of people have systematically promoted hate all these centuries. Wow I find that disgustingly amazing!

connor 5 months, 3 weeks ago

Yet despite selling their own kinsmen into slavery and the weekly new genocides against other religious beliefs and races by African tribes, most American's are willing to give Africans the benefit of the doubt as individuals and not judge them as a race.

RobHunterJohnson 5 months, 3 weeks ago

261 PIUS XII, to #266 Benedict XVI, in my lifetime. starting with the first Pope being Peter! Rob

eileen10 5 months, 3 weeks ago

How do you get your typing that big?

JCLifer 5 months, 3 weeks ago

If we didn't have the bad times, we wouldn't know what the good times were.

Victorian Home tour in Fulton to recognize Civil War heritage

Narrated bus tour of other antebellum homes also featured

More like this story

Comments

261 PIUS XII, to #266 Benedict XVI, in my lifetime. starting with the first Pope being Peter! Rob