Subscribe
Shop Local
Magazine
Gas Prices
Today's Poll!Judge: Hobby Lobby must offer morning-after pill
Tuesday, November 20, 2012
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A federal judge Monday rejected Hobby Lobby Stores Inc.'s request to block part of the federal health care overhaul that requires the arts and craft supply company to provide insurance coverage for the morning-after and week-after birth control pills.
In a 28-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Joe Heaton denied a request by Hobby Lobby to prevent the government from enforcing portions of the health care law mandating insurance coverage for contraceptives the company's Christian owners consider objectionable.
The Oklahoma City-based company and a sister company, Mardel Inc., sued the government in September, claiming the mandate violates the owners' religious beliefs. The owners contend the morning-after and week-after birth control pills are tantamount to abortion because they can prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in a woman's womb. They also object to providing coverage for certain kinds of intrauterine devices.
At a hearing earlier this month, a government lawyer said the drugs do not cause abortions and that the U.S. has a compelling interest in mandating insurance coverage for them.
In his ruling denying Hobby Lobby's request for an injunction, Heaton said that while churches and other religious organizations have been granted constitutional protection from the birth-control provisions, "Hobby Lobby and Mardel are not religious organizations."
"Plaintiffs have not cited, and the court has not found, any case concluding that secular, for-profit corporations such as Hobby Lobby and Mardel have a constitutional right to the free exercise of religion," the ruling said.
Heaton wrote that "the court is not unsympathetic" to the problems cited by Hobby Lobby and their owners, the Green family. He said the health care law's expansion of employer obligations "results in concerns and issues not previously confronted by companies or their owners."
"The question of whether the Greens can establish a free exercise constitutional violation by reason of restrictions or requirements imposed on general business corporations they own or control involves largely uncharted waters," Heaton wrote.
Hobby Lobby's attorney said the companies' owners will appeal.
"Every American, including family business owners like the Greens, should be free to live and do business according to their religious beliefs," Kyle Duncan, general counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, said in a statement.
The morning-after pill works by preventing ovulation or fertilization. In medical terms, pregnancy begins when a fertilized egg attaches itself to the wall of the uterus. If taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex, it can reduce a woman's chances of pregnancy by as much as 89 percent.
Critics of contraception say it is the equivalent of an abortion pill because it can prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus. The lawsuit also alleges that certain kinds of intrauterine devices can destroy an embryo by preventing it from implanting in a woman's uterus.
Hobby Lobby is the largest business to file a lawsuit against the mandate.
Hobby Lobby calls itself a "biblically founded business" and is closed on Sundays. Founded in 1972, the company now operates more than 500 stores in 41 states and employs more than 13,000 full-time employees who are eligible for health insurance coverage. The company, which is self-insured, has said it will face a daily $1.3 million fine beginning Jan. 1 if it ignores the law.
"It is by God's grace and provision that Hobby Lobby has endured," said David Green, founder and CEO. "Therefore we seek to honor God by operating the company in a manner consistent with biblical principles."
The Green family has said it has no moral objection to the use of other contraceptives and will continue covering them for its employees.
Marry Me
Comments
spelchek 6 months ago
Just cut your employees hours below 30 hours (to avoid the penalty tax), drop the insurance (which we were promised we could keep), and force your employees to get on Obamacare to receive said mandate. Thanks Democrats!!!
Unions don't have to worry, their on the exemption (political favors) list. Do as we say, not as we do.
asb 6 months ago
So, to work for Hobby Lobby, I'd have to accept the Greens' religion? Well Spel is right, 25 hour employees on ACA insurance is perfect. Will that 25 hours include mandatory praying? A Christian Loyalty pledge?
JCLifer 6 months ago
You would have to accept and behave according to any employer's values and policies. Why is that so hard for you to understand? You don't like what they are offering, go somewhere else where the majority think like you do.
spelchek 6 months ago
They will never figure it out Lifer. Other peoples money is what they're after, not putting it where their own pie holes are. They talk, but will never walk.
tonto_goldberg 6 months ago
You've stretched a silly concept to the point of lunacy, and all because that scary man got re-elected and you can't take the country back to the 1950's. I thought we knew better around here in the Heartland, so I must have been asleep when the rest of you went crazy.
Do Catholics make their Baptist employees convert, or vice versa? Do Christian Scientists try to force their employees to abstain from the regular medical care the rest of us expect? No, but the Greens want to force their employees, and now the entire country to "respect" their beliefs by allowing them to pick and choose which health care benefits they are willing to provide their employees. A pox on their houses.
spelchek 6 months ago
"No, but the Greens want to force their employees," -- Wrong. You've unsuccessfully tried to put a business that never had any issues with the public, it's employees, or the government until the new Democrat mandates rolled out. The only "force" is coming from the Democrats and the only thing "scary" is that you don't or won't recognize this unfortunate turn of events. The great divider marches on...........
asb 6 months ago
So the Church of DoItMyWay decides that 40 hour weeks, Social Security, Workplace Safety, are all against their religion and I can go look elsewhere? The government doesn't agree with that either. Are those mandates then an evil encroachment on the Greens' rights to slave labor in an economy where any job is a good job? BS!
JCLifer 6 months ago
In a free market economy, no one would be forced to work there. If you get a better deal somewhere else, then you can go there. If the DottyMyWay company cannot hire anyone, they might have to improve their working conditions and compensation package.
Freedom is a good thing. You should demand it and embrace it.
spelchek 6 months ago
"Slave labor"? How many employees depend on YOU for a salary, birth control, and the morning after pill? How much do YOU pay? What benefits do YOU offer? How many FTE's are on YOUR payroll? How many part timers? I'm guessing zilch for all aforementioned questions making my point about walking the walk in regards to you and others being an expert on how others should spend their money, apt.
asb 6 months ago
I'm usually an employee Spel, sometime an employer. I get both arguments. But for the government I'd employ children and pay them in candy. As a worker I expect my employer to abide by centuries of workers rights earned through peaceful and sometimes violent discourse. The Greens are already meeting federal labor and SS mandates, they're going to have to get used to this new one, I have.
spelchek 6 months ago
You reap what you sow. Actions have consequences. Two phrases that mystify liberals.
JCLifer 6 months ago
Add: "Personal Responsibility". That phrase really makes them scratch their heads...
asb 6 months ago
Don't forget what goes around comes around. Personal Responsibility is my favorite FRightWing catchphrase. It doesn't seem to apply to paying a fair share of our society's obligations and gets turned into "I got mine, and yours, and that's the way, uh huh uh huh, I like it."
spelchek 6 months ago
" Will that 25 hours include mandatory praying?" -- No just mandatory laws that force you to defy your own beliefs. They already offer contraception and this isn't apparently enough for someone who feels entitled like yourself. This wasn't an issue until Obamacare was forced down our throats by Democrats at midnight on Christmas Eve by the most transparent administration in history. Do you know where the money is going due to this mandate? Corporations. The same corporations you throw under the bus every chance you get. So here you are blaming the business for not wanting to make big pharma even richer by a President that signed a law allowing that to happen and that you voted for. (Let me guess, this is somehow Romney's fault....right? Bush? Lincoln? Taft?)
JCLifer 6 months ago
Mandatory praying might not be a bad idea. This country can use all the prayers it can get. Add mandatory pledge of allegiance every morning. People in this country have lost their values. Decadence is what results without strong values and morals. Ever since we took prayer and pledge of allegiance out of schools, this country has been on a downward spiral.
Time to take back our country and instill some good Christiand and American values like we had when it was founded.
spelchek 6 months ago
They'll continue to persecute Christians while Muslims plan their next attack. Sick.....I know.
JCLifer 6 months ago
That is the new normal that we are transitioning towards: 2 or 3 part-time jobs for everyone, instead of one full-time job at 40+ hours a week.
I have talks to several employers, mainly small businesses, but some public agencies who say they are going to move to make sure no one works over 30 hours. They simply cannot afford the additional taxes that ObamaCare is laying on their organizations.
This drastic change to the workforce, encouraged by federal policies, will serve to hasten the national divorce. The sooner we get it done, the sooner we can move forward to repairing the Liberal damage.
tonto_goldberg 6 months ago
Your friends are no better informed than you are. There are federal tax credits available to support any real additional cost that comes from providing health care to their employees.
spelchek 6 months ago
Well your comment rules out JC and most small towns for the most part.
"In addition, small businesses will qualify for tax credits if they have no more than 25 employees and average wages of $50,000 per year."
washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamacare-tax-hikes-vs-tax-breaks-which-is-greater/2012/07/06/gJQAx6AyPW_blog.html
JCLifer 6 months ago
That is to reward the blue areas on the map. Red areas just have to pay for their own and pay for the blue areas too. Cronyism and rewards by the demos.
asb 6 months ago
Oh, so there'll be no Republicans taking that tax credit? The people who brought us tax credits in the first place? Right.
tonto_goldberg 6 months ago
From the IRS website:
To be eligible, you must cover at least 50 percent of the cost of single (not family) health care coverage for each of your employees. You must also have fewer than 25 full-time equivalent employees (FTEs). Those employees must have average wages of less than $50,000 a year.
Your blog-sourced quote is wrong about the thing that matters most.
spelchek 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Most left leaning papers do not give the whole story in order to steer people to their side. I give you my Washington Post link that you bring up as evidence.
Mr_Grimm 6 months ago
Last time i checked it was called a Benefit. A benefit for working at that job......not a requirement. Every company in America should be able to choose what benefits they give give, IF ANY. I dont see anyone trying to pass legislation to make Holidays required time off, so why birth control? Thats like saying a company has to cover addiction counseling because you never know when you might get addicted to something? Simple, DONT DO IT! If you dont want to have a baby.....dont do what makes one. If you dont want to be a drug addict....don't do drugs. Take responsibility for your own actions.
I am a small business owner, and after hearing the things our "president" wants to force on us I WILL NOT HIRE EMPLOYEES! I can afford it and the help would be great, but I will not have ANYONE tell me what I HAVE TO DO in MY business. If I want to offer benefits, I would, BUT I will choose what, when, how much, and from what company.
JCLifer 6 months ago
Mr. Grimm, you nailed it! Benefits are supposed to be things that sweeten the deal for employment as part of the total compensation package. I don't know why they got to be considered to be "required entitlements". Government should stay out of the contract between employee and employer. Let free market decide what the compensation package should look like.
asb 6 months ago
Well except pay your taxes, meet any required regulations, pay overtime, etc. Really? You can run your business without employees? Why then do you have any. You must be a very very small business man.
Sequoia 6 months ago
Yes, the issue is benefits.
The issue is that if one employee gets a benefit (health care), then all employees get that benefit (birth control is health care). You can't deny a benefit (health care) to one group of people (women), while other employees receive the benefit.
If you are an employer, you must comply with the law that applies to all employers. If you don't like the law, close your business. There are a thousand others ready and willing to take your place.
You can't just duck out of laws by saying that your "morality" prescribes otherwise. That's true for both businesses and individuals. A business can't violate the law for "moral" reasons any more than a Rastafarian can cultivate and smoke cannabis free of punishment for "moral" reasons, or an Aztec priest could sacrifice virgins to the sun god for "moral" reasons. The law is rational and neutral, so you can't weasel out of it by whining about your poor "moral values." Get a grip.
The idea that an employer and employee can contract around government regulations was rejected about 100 years ago, when employers argued they could contract around 8-hour workdays and legal prohibitions on child labor. The latest version of that argument, put forth by Lifer above, should also be rejected for the same reasons. You can't contract around the law.
The law is the law. Follow it or get out of the business. No one will miss you. Someone else will take your place, and the rest of us will forget you were ever here.
BTW I don't think Hobby Lobby "makes" people pray. Y'all are ridiculous.
Mr_Grimm 6 months ago
NO, I CHOOSE to be a smaller business. I can pay my bills just fine. My family is fed, and money is in the bank. I am not going to expand although we could do so easily because i WILL not put up with this garbage. If i am REQUIRED to buy some ladies birth control pills than i better see condoms for guys coming right behind it!!!! ITS THE SAME THING. THIS has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with SEX.....dont do it and you wont get pregnant. pretty simple stuff there. Its not my job as your BOSS to pay for you to go pretend to be a rabbit. kinda falls under the "dont do the crime if you cant do the time" way of thinking.
spelchek 6 months ago
Not any more. You don't purchase and qualify, you pay the tax.
connor 6 months ago
If birth control is health care then so are yoga classes, running shoes, weight sets, vitamins and any thing else dealing with "healthy" living and so called preventive maintenance. I guess that should include condoms and cialis (sp?) as well. That is of course as long as you look on pregnancy as an illness, which we all know many feminist do.
You certainly can duck out of laws, and we are going to see it more and more. This country was founded by a refusal to accept new "laws" and taxes promoted by a government 1000's of miles away with no knowledge or care for the actual circumstances their "subjects" lived under.
As for weaseling. Failure to pay for some woman's fun pill is now akin to cutting the heart out of an Aztec sacrificial victim? Talk about getting a grip.
JCLifer 6 months ago
I want a hot tub! That would make me feel better. Better yet, my mental health would be greatly improved by giving me two weeks all expense paid trip to the French Riviera. My employer should honor my healthcare needs and pony up the money for a trip and a hot tub. If my employer will not do this, then hopefully ObamaCare should pay for it. I am sick. I need some relief quick. I am a victim. Hot tub and vacation, now!...
spelchek 6 months ago
Don't forget that we're now taxed for something we're not purchasing. Wait until that expands.........flood gates = open
Paroquet 6 months ago
Right there with ya, connor! Paying for women's fun pills indeed!
Anything that is a function of a personal decision should not be covered. You used the knife that cut you by choice. You drove what you wanted where you wanted by choice. You ate the foods and were sedentary by choice. You were on your feet when you fell and broke your ankle by choice. Every one of those resulted from personal volition of the individual. You were on the ladder, by choice, and you fell and died. Shouldn't cover any of that. That's your logic working there, connor, not mine.
connor 6 months ago
Did you have a brain tumor for lunch Paroquet? Wait don't answer that I already know. Pregnancy is a healthcare issue but buying the anti-pregnancy pills is not. Falling off a ladder and breaking your leg is a healthcare issue but the safety harness you buy before climbing the ladder is not. According to your view it should be though.
Sigh explaining basic principals to counter the Liberal sensationalism really gets old sometimes.
tonto_goldberg 6 months ago
You've got the "explaining" part wrong. No one outside the absurdist right-wing blogosphere buys your version of basic principles. You also used the wrong word. A principal is either first, or is the manager of school teachers. The most important rules are your principal principles.
connor 6 months ago
Unless they are your principals' principles. Of which yours are decidedly Cleftwing denial and cover up.
Sequoia 6 months ago
Well, the Aztec thing was a riff on the absurd idea of religious exemption to public laws.
But anyway, only a man would say that a pill that gives women the means to determine when and how many children they will have is a "fun pill" or seriously compare it to yoga. Being able to control birth has huge social and economic consequences. Birth control means fewer abortions, less crime, less welfare, less unemployment, more family stability and better economic outlook for the actual women themselves. Yours is a clown answer, bro.
My real point is that corporations don't have religious freedom. The guy who invented Hobby Lobby surely does, but not once he incorporates.
The corporate legal form gives individuals like the Green family the ability to pool capital as "Hobby Lobby Stores Inc." Most importantly, it allows the owners to risk that capital as "HLS Inc." without risking their own assets. HLS, Inc. can lose a billion dollars and owe debts everywhere, but none of those creditors will ever be able to take the Green family home. That's the beauty of the corporate legal form that encourages risk-taking and invention.
And that's why a legal form can't hold a religious belief.
connor 6 months ago
If pills were the ONLY way to regulate pregnancy I might actually agree with you, but they are not, therefore they are a convenience the woman chooses. So she should pay for them herself.
Sequoia 6 months ago
Well, birth control is a "convenience" in the same sense that a cholestorol medication is "convenient" for the person who has chosen to eat foods that cause blocked arteries.
I mean, pills aren't the "only" way to prevent clogged arteries, or for that matter, to regulate blood sugar or improve kidney function or relieve allergies or whatever it is you're using medication for. Lots of times people are taking medication for conditions related to their choices.
But, to be more specific, a person's health condition is usually a combination of biology and individual choice.
The government doesn't wag its finger at fat old men who need heart medication after a lifetime of gorging themselves on meat for three meals a day. And, of course, we know that it is dumb and reductive to make such a broad, blithe statement as this about people with heart disease. Sometimes it is out of your control. Certainly you, old wise Jedi connor, you have seen it all come and go in the "real world," are not naive enough to think that women always have total control over their sexuality. Interesting, though, that even though we could make moral judgments about almost any kind of health care, you guys seem to enjoy shaking your finger at women. Funny that. Who do you think has to raise these kids anyway? Too often, men leave the scene once the sex is over!
So, no, birth control pills aren't the ONLY way to prevent pregnancy, but they are the MOST EFFECTIVE way. As far as government policy is concerned, that's all I care about. I leave the moral judgments to the individuals. This is where you can see the difference between my true conservatism, and the talk shows.
connor 6 months ago
Your so called Conservatism is nothing more than a mimic copy of a few effeminate Liberal White boy pundits not good enough to make the prime time talk show circuit who thinks their slightly bent view and dual priorities will fool some people.
As a matter of fact if the condition of high blood pressure and other health concerns is manageable by diet alone the insurance companies do not have to pay for it and don't in many cases have seen. SO that argument means nothing except to point out that birth control pills are not a healthcare expense.
As for raising kids funny that not only is the incident of mothers abandoning their children to the fathers being on the rise but mothers are much more likely to become the so called "deadbeats" than fathers are.
This birth control issue is really another form of Matriarchal Superiority trying to flex it's muscle and keep a lock on the procreation monopoly they have.
I tell ya what if Obummer care wishes to match any funding for birth control pills and abortions with equal funding to putting a male birth control pill into production I will go along with it completely.
I am sure as a feminist ally you would be all against that though.
asb 6 months ago
And Graceful just said they don't let vicious posts on this forum. You really do have a thing for the girls don't you? No, I don't mean that thing, I mean that other thing, the Rush thing, the "hey now that women have political and economic rights, my power is cut in half" thing. Too bad honey! That's the demographic thing, and the FRight loses again.
connor 6 months ago
Typical Cleftwing response. I want equal for me but not for thee and some are more equal than others. If you don't agree with us then we will call you racist and woman hater.
Graceful was wrong though. They allow you on here.
Sequoia 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Connor, I guarantee that if anyone ever invents a "male birth control pill," it will be covered by insurance, no question, and nobody will be having a religious hissy fit over it. All those male Catholic bishops won't be saying a word about it.
If men could get pregnant, no one would be trying to make abortion illegal, either. Believe that.
So, can you show me one piece of evidence that insurance companies aren't paying for blood pressure medicine? I think you're making that up.
I also think you're making up your statement that "mothers are much more likely to become the so called "deadbeats" than fathers are." Do you have some evidence for that? You're making that up, too.
A lot of my posts include links to the facts I'm addressing. Yours never do. Funny, that.
I get it, dude. You have a hard time with the ladies. They ain't using that birth control with YOU, so you're bitter about it and call them names.
Never had that problem myself, so its hard for me to see your point of view.
Also, what is "cleft" wing supposed to mean?
asb 5 months, 4 weeks ago
I'm guessing (so vicious) that it tickles Mr. Clay's California thing. It also conotate cleft, as in palate or such, in any case it is a slam on being incomplete, or femaile, or special, or lacking. But, since it actually has no meaning at all, I'm just guessing. And, dog, quit bragging . . . :)
JCLifer 6 months ago
How about BEHAVIOR being used to control births?
What part of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is not understood here?
Also, the BIGGER POINT is that no one is preventing employees from purchasing BC pills. It is the EMPLOYER who doesn't want to buy them for the employees. Employees are free to purchase all they want. Again, there is that little phrase PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...
asb 6 months ago
To you, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY means no sex without pregnancy as the motivation. That world doesn't exist Lifer, except where religious dogma is the law of the land. If this is your core argument you'll have trouble in America. I'd stick to the convenience should be a personal cost approach. Even that fails in the face of public health as a justification for mandatory coverage.
JCLifer 6 months ago
Sadly, you are probably right. We have reached a level of decadence and decay that human beings are no more able to control their lustful urges than wild animals can. "Do it" with whomever and whereever and whenever you want" is now viewed as an entitlement, and somebody else needs to pay for it all.
Sad...
Sequoia 6 months ago
I don't care about the government trying to enforce "personal responsibility." I don't want a government policy designed to encourage moral behavior... I want the government policy that works.
Access to birth control works better than "abstinence education" or whatever "personal responsibility" nanny-state you're asking for. But, of course, you're not advocating a specific policy. You're advocating for a philosophy of government regulation based on moral principles.
Of course employees can still purchase birth control. Nobody is saying they can't. It's about the nature of the benefit. This court decision is saying that health insurance has to cover birth control just like any other medication. Employers can't exempt themselves just because they don't like the nature of that particular medication.
I happen to think that we have reached a level of decadence and decay that human beings are no more able to control their lustful appetite for meat any more than wild animals can. "Eat whatever and whenever you want" is now viewed as an entitlement, and somebody else needs to pay for it all. Since it is morally wrong to eat animals, and since there are other, more responsible ways to get protien, isn't it a moral tragedy that we're encouraging this despicable behavior by covering heart disease and heart attacks with health insurance SO THAT I HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR CHOICE TO EAT MEAT???!!! Why don't you food slu ts keep your mouths closed?
My point is, you can't administer a health insurance plan by subjecting one thing (birth control) to some kind of "personal responsibility" test that other medications don't go through.
"Keep your legs closed" is fine advice for a parent to give a child, but it is not a basis for good public policy.
Funny how people complain about the Nanny State on one hand, then want the government to pretend it is a Mommy or a Daddy on the other hand.
Go ahead and be sad, Lifer. Birth control has been a great thing for many families.
JCLifer 6 months ago
Go look up the definition of "medicine" and tell me what disease birth control pills cure.
Sequoia 5 months, 4 weeks ago
What "disease" does asprin cure?
dokeus6 5 months, 4 weeks ago
hangovers. Especially Tequila ones. Those are the worst. Sorry Sequoia, you left that wide open for interpretation.
JCLifer 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Aspirin does a pretty good job of preventing atherosclerosis, for one. Also, it is white and it works.
dokeus6 5 months, 4 weeks ago
guttmacher.org/media/nr/2011/11/15/index.html
Birth Control pills probably don't cure much. They do have other health benefits lifer. According to some studies, women use them to help improve their quality of life.
Here is a snippet of statistics from one of the studies from the web page listed above.
"The study—based on U.S government data from the National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG)—revealed that after pregnancy prevention (86%), the most common reasons women use the pill include reducing cramps or menstrual pain (31%); menstrual regulation, which for some women may help prevent migraines and other painful “side effects” of menstruation (28%); treatment of acne (14%); and treatment of endometriosis (4%). Additionally, it found that some 762,000 women who have never had sex use the pill, and they do so almost exclusively (99%) for noncontraceptive reasons. Menstrual-related disorders and irregular periods are particularly common during adolescence. Not surprisingly, the study found that teens aged 15–19 who use the pill are more likely to do so for non-contraceptive purposes (82%) than for birth control (67%). Moreover, 33% of teen pill users report using oral contraceptive pills solely for noncontraceptive purposes."
Same old story on this site. Everyone is so quick to condem things based on a news article without every taking the time to educate themselves on the other side of the story.
JCLifer 5 months, 4 weeks ago
I am not against birth control pills. I am against federal government meddling into every aspect of our lives. The constitution is pretty clear about the limited role of the Federal government, but the Monster is growing and is totally out of control right now.
I am also against the belief that everyone is entitled to get everything for free. I believe in equal opportunity for all, but I am against guaranteed equal results for all.
I am against unlimited spending and borrowing $0.43 of every dollar that the federal government spends. I know what that strategy does to my household economic situation, and I suspect it is no different at the federal level. Yes, I am also against unfair and unbalanced news media.
dokeus6 5 months, 4 weeks ago
"I am against federal government meddling into every aspect of our lives."
I'm against other people meddling in my life. The government is going to be in my life no matter what. I'm for people paying their fair share too but that doesn't happen either. Ask Mitt.
JCLifer 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Agree with you.
TickledPink 5 months, 4 weeks ago
LIfer, I've had my tubes tied for many years and I still take the pill for my PCOS. Before the pill I was in severe pain several times a year and there were a couple times I had to take off work because of it. After I had a cyst rupture (which was the most painful thing I've EVER been through - ranks right up there with giving birth 4 times) I was prescribed the pill and I've had no problems since. Not one. So even though I have absolutely no need for birth control, I'm still on the pill and I consider it medically necessary and so does my doctor.
spelchek 5 months, 4 weeks ago
TMI -- You're not one of those who talks on your cell phone 24/7 with no shame about sharing your personal drama with a justifiably irritated audience...are you?
JCLifer 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Great! Not sure what your point is, though.
TickledPink 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Lifer, you're the one who asked:
"Go look up the definition of "medicine" and tell me what disease birth control pills cure."
Not a cure, but a medically sound treatment, just like heart disease meds and insulin.
Spel - how is any of what I said TMI? I realize right wingers aren't comfortable with anything dealing with the female body but that doesn't make it TMI.
dokeus6 5 months, 4 weeks ago
"Sadly, you are probably right. We have reached a level of decadence and decay that human beings are no more able to control their lustful urges than wild animals can. "Do it" with whomever and whereever and whenever you want" is now viewed as an entitlement, and somebody else needs to pay for it all."
You act like this is the first time that you have heard of sex. Why do you think the medical field uses magical medicine like "The Pill"?? The people that are using these pills are mostly adults who are making a decision to live THEIR lives this way. You right wingers are so quick to get government to quit telling you what to do but the right wingers are so quick to tell everyone what they should do. Hypocrites.
JCLifer 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Take the pill. That is fine. Take all you want. Why do you expect it to be paid for you so you can take it for free? Why do you feel entitled to free birth control? Where in the constitution does it say that every citizen is entitled to be provided free birth control from their employer, their insurance policy, or their government?
I would think that you might demand something more basic like toilet paper should be provided for free. I would support that one over free birth control pills.
Don't know what you mean about "You right wingers are so quick to get government to quit telling you what to do but the right wingers are so quick to tell everyone what they should do." I don't think the government should tell anyone what to do, except for what is listed in our Constitution. Don't like what is in the constitution? Fine, there is a process for changing it. Knock yourself out.
Sequoia 5 months, 4 weeks ago
I don't think anybody feels "entitled" to birth control any more than any other medication.
The narrative being manufactured now is that anyone who voted for Obama feels "entitled" to free things. That's not true, but you're running with it. Whatever.
Where does it say in the Constitution that every citizen is entitled to have their insurance policy cover ANY medication? The words "health" or "insurance" or "prescription drug" are not contained in the Constitution at all. Neither are "nuclear weapons," "terrorism," "highways" "securities fraud" or lots of other things.
All I'm saying is 1) that there are good public policy reasons for requiring health insurance plans to cover birth control pills, and 2) individual providers can't deviate from that law based on the moral beliefs of corporate officers.
You guys keep turning this into "everyone who disagrees with me is a moocher who wants everything for free." Yawn. How far did those weak manufactured narratives get you in the election? Obama's a socialist, Romney will win in a landslide, blah blah blah.
It makes you feel good to think of yourself as a "maker" and everyone else as a "taker." That's the narrative that the conservative movement is selling you now, and boy howdy are you buying in. It feels good, doesn't it? Just like junk food. Eat up.
Why do you feel entitled to a narrative that makes you the "good guy" and everyone else the "bad guys"? Why do you feel entitled to a government that implements policies that reflect your particular moral beliefs?
dokeus6 5 months, 4 weeks ago
The Constitution points out in the first paragraph that we are to provide for a common defense, promote general welfare, and secure blessings of liberty to ourselves and our prosperity. What gets me is that the right wingers take care of defense (which I don't have a problem with) but bawk at promoting the general welfare and securing blessings of liberty. I am not happy that people take advantage of the system but how do we manage an effective system to maintain the mission that the principles of our country were founded on and still be fair to everyone? IMO that is the question that is being left unanswered.
connor 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Your answer is within the 10th Amendment.
JCLifer 5 months, 4 weeks ago
All I know is that I am continually told how good everything is, and how much better it will be in the future. But what i see is things are not very good for quite some time, and things are getting worse, not better. After the last four years we are now deep in debt, and the projections are that it will triple during the next four years.
Don't tell me how wonderful everything is getting, when i can clearly see that it is not.
spelchek 5 months, 4 weeks ago
You're missing the point. In their mind, the closer we get to being equally miserable the better things are. See how that works? Me neither.
JCLifer 5 months, 4 weeks ago
I think you are correct. Hard work, making good decision, having good behavior, abiding by the law, earning graduate degrees, taking responsibilituy, etc. - Those things are not valued anymore. The liberals want everyone to have everything regardless of any of these factors. Trying to do good and right has no value. This is a hard pill for constituionalists, Christians, hard workers, and law abiders to swallow. It turns everything upside down as to how we were raised. I think that is the problem.
spelchek 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Who has time to accept responsibility for their own actions when they have so many fingers pointing at others as the root of their problems? I only need one finger to point at what I think is the problem. Libs don't seem to have enough fingers.
Sequoia 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Anyone who has different political opinions than you must hate hard work, law, good things, puppy dogs and apple pie. I love how, in your mind, "liberals" are just pure evil.
This is your analysis? We're good. Y'all are evil. That's your thinking?
Oh, how you were raised! Oh the hardworking people! Oh the liberals! That's where the problem is, alright. You've figured it out. What a sharp analytical mind you have. You've spotted the problem! Liberals hate all good things!
I mean, even Bond villians have more dimension than your "liberal" character you make up and argue with.
Libs! Responsibility! Durr de durr!
So long, suckers!
asb 6 months ago
And if contraception were not the health benefit it's proven to be, I could buy the idea that it's just a woman's convenient choice and that it shouldn't be covered. But the public health benefits are well established, and the morals are not at issue, they're already decided by all but a very small minority of abstaining women. Dogma vs. reality: it's not just for Galileo vs. The Church anymore. "Health and Wellfare" overrides the Greens' dogmatic claim of government oppression.
JCLifer 6 months ago
Contraception sure is not a health benefit for the baby that God might have intended to create...
Sequoia 6 months ago
That's some corny stuff, man. Let's graduate from kindergarten.
connor 6 months ago
I am surprised no one got the "akin" I managed to sneak into the last sentence. The Liberal conglomerate is slipping.
asb 6 months ago
No, it's just that Akin references don't mean anything any more, sorry.
spelchek 5 months, 4 weeks ago
So he meant something to you before?
asb 6 months ago
Well one good point is getting air here, is contraception health care? I think this has been addressed, but I don't know where. Is Lipitor? Is blood pressure medicine? There are not any absolutes and there are some resulting conflicts. But, whether a drug is preventitive or reaction is not the same question as "is it moral or does it suit my dogma?" Viagra? Ciallis, Vitamins? Since the Greens are willing to cover some contraception, they must think so. We're taxed for things we don't buy all the time Spel, like schools.
PatsyDecline 6 months ago
Overpriced Chinese Junk....most of Hobby Lobby merch is a junk/garage sale quality.
With that said.....if they don't want to obey the law they can pay the fine or convert their employees to 1099 or close their doors. That's why its called the law.
spelchek 6 months ago
They weren't breaking the law until Democrats passed Obamacare, Hobby Lobby was on nobody's radar. Government is good at making hard working people into criminals (it was the central theme of the Obama campaign). More incentive to take your ball and go home. We'll see how long that promise to keep our doctors lasts, or keep our jobs for that matter. We'll all be equally miserable pretty soon and the liberal dream fulfilled.
JCLifer 6 months ago
Yep. Libs make the hard-working self-sufficent people into criminals, and they make the parasites into victims.
Crazy world, isn't it?
asb 6 months ago
Maybe in your world. In mine we're all in this together, nobody is self sufficient outside their hermit cave or cardboard box. You cannot live, let alone thrive, with me. Without the $8.50/hr kids and moms. Wiithout all of us. Self-sufficient my patootie! Build your own roads then. Defend your castle from the hoards. Grow your own food. Good Grief what nonsense you've learned.
JCLifer 6 months ago
I have paid my fair share. 47% cannot say the same.
Littleinvestor 5 months, 4 weeks ago
The portion of the 47 percent who worked all their lives, and paid income taxes, who are now elderly with nursing home, home care and enormous medical bills, and are not paying taxes currently, are not criminals or parasites. They are estimated to be 10-20 percent of the 47 percent. There are lazy worthless people in the 47 percent but the old people deserve better from all of us. Or do you want to put them on the ice floe?
asb 6 months ago
That's nonsense Spel, Hobby Lobby has been on the government's radar through SS, through OSHA, through EPA, the IRS, don't be so spugish! Criminalizing hard working people? Really? That's Scott Walker's song Spel!
joda 6 months ago
Hard working people?? You must be talking about liberals... The only thing republicans work hard at is betraying their country for their stock portfolios...
connor 6 months ago
YA those Liberals I saw who were herding those Somalis onto the bus to vote from one of the (Many) youtube videos out there sure were working hard. For once in their lives.
PatsyDecline 6 months ago
Heh....I'd lay good odds any Somali man of equal age to you would work you into the ground.
I'm a Republican. We lost. Get over it. It's not really the end of the world. Your delusions of secession and race wars grow tiring.
Move on with your life. Raise your family. Support your community. Quit trying to incite hate.
Happy Holidays.
connor 6 months ago
One - My comment had nothing to do with any work ethic of Somalis either male or female. So why even bring that up?
Two - MY opinion is still overall that the Republicans actually increased their power base in the last election so there is absolutely nothing for me to get over. It was a growth period of the Conservative movement. We didn't unseat OBummer and Lap dog Claire got re-elected which is very bad but overall the Republicans got some real power behind them now if they would just use it.
Three - I have not written any judgement call nor have I stated I support a secessionist movement. You sound just like a Liberal with your unfounded accusations, attempts to change predictions into support and off handed accusations of racism PD. I am pointing out that it is the Cleftwing tactics that are pushing a secession movement and if they continue along the path they have chosen it is inevitable. Most of the Liberal agenda is a direct attack on the rights and livelihood of the rural areas. These areas will have to do something and gaining control of the States is the first step left open to them.
You really need to digest what you are reading before typing I think.
TickledPink 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Try the Pumpkin Ale - it's great!
What?? She said we need a new Sam Adams!
spelchek 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Yes, libs work very hard at asking others for more of their money. Spot on. Good thing Bill Clinton never betrayed is country, that would be awkward for you.
3633 6 months ago
Now just as employees need jobs, employers need workers, so Hobby Lobby just needs to decide if they will provide ins or not and move on.
3633 6 months ago
Now was this type of insurance provided before now???
asb 6 months ago
By insurance companies, or not, it was a purchase choice by the employer. Employers and insurors both dislike the cost, so there was less coverage than the benefit would suggest. The ACA mandate, like the pre-existing, children, and other mandates, will add to the cost of insurance, and they will also reduce ER and other costs incurred due to a lack of coverage. In the long term, the ACA may or may not reduce America's healthcare costs, but it'll sure benefit America's health. We're more than wealthy enough to cover whatever increases do occur, as long as everybody pays their fair share of the cost.
JCLifer 6 months ago
WHAT?!?!?!? ObamaCare was sold on the promise of CHEAP healthcare for all!!!
Now you are saying that adding all these millions of people to the ObamaCare plan is going to cost us MORE???
Oh, the horror!!! The liberals lied to us...
joda 6 months ago
Wow. That lie is almost as bad as Republicans lying about WMD's in Iraq and getting 5000+ Americans killed. Wouldn't ya say, Lifer?
JCLifer 6 months ago
I would call a fleet of F-15s used against the citizenry a bunch of WMDs. However, like you, I would have slept just fine at night letting Saddam gas his own people and doing mass executions. That seems to be a common muslim practice. We should have minded our own business.
asb 6 months ago
Oh you've been lied to all right, but I think the Faux and Balognanced crew are the liars, not most liberals. I'm sure there are ignorant people who do think the ACA makes all healthcare free, but they both live in a fairytale. The rest of us, all along, have said "yes it'll cost, but it's needed and we can afford it if Elbonia can, as long as everybody pays."
tonto_goldberg 6 months ago
Reducing the total cost will require nearly everyone to have coverage so we are rid of freeloaders, and substantial reduction of fraud, waste, and abuse. A lot of our current cost comes from those two areas
RobHunterJohnson 6 months ago
Thats true, $500.00 diabetic shoes? Their tennis shoes! I have a pair, I think they were $56.00 plus shipping. Someone is getting RICH? I know who is getting Rich from FRAUD! How about all those Republicans do they? Rob
RobHunterJohnson 6 months ago
SOMALIS? People think about it? ROB
asb 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Spit yourself dry Grace, nobody cares.
spelchek 5 months, 4 weeks ago
And that's the problem.
january 6 months ago
I think your perception of “what this country has become” and what you are, are pretty similar. I hope you enjoy spitting on yourself.
RobHunterJohnson 5 months, 4 weeks ago
It is ashame the extreme right has taken the position it has. Alot of other sites are full of this kind of rhetoric as well! I may push my point of view, but not to the degree of a few! Rob
spelchek 5 months, 4 weeks ago
The "extreme right"? What is extreme? Explain, give descriptions. I find liberals burning the American flag as extreme. Defecating on cop cars by OWS is another example of extreme as is throwing Molotov c0cktails, smashing store windows, attacking law enforcement, squatting on bridges to disrupt traffic, unions holding LA hostage today, etc... Bill Ayers is extreme and Obama's friend. You need to give examples because what I've seen out of Tea Party folks (middle-class, employed citizens concerned about gov't spending) just doesn't add up to fit the definition of "extreme". You also conveniently forget the wise words of President Obama's (whom you told us repeatedly to vote for) mentor of over 25 years Rev. Jerimiah Wright, "...not God Bless America, but God D@mn America..." Your outrage just doesn't come off as sincere when you take a broader look at things.
connor 5 months, 4 weeks ago
And it's all bush's fault.
spelchek 5 months, 4 weeks ago
That kind of excuse making to avoid responsibility for a job Obama spent billions asking for is the kind of leadership libs look for out of their leaders. A majority of libs said so.....twice. Don't you remember JFK constantly complaining, "it's er..uh....Eisenhower's fault..."? Me neither.
asb 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Yes, some of the rich keep on skimming and tax-dodging
connor 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Anything that is not giving them what they want is extreme. Any opinion not their own is Fox news. After they get their way it is time to compromise. If their way doesn't work it was because the Republicans blocked them or sabotaged them. When they protest it is righteous anger - when any one else does it is spreading hate.
asb 5 months, 4 weeks ago
Actually your reasons are very similar, you feel disenfranchised. You have a limited stake in processes that suit others' needs more than yours. You're angry. You want a stake so bad you're willing to say that America be damned. You and Jerry Wright are, of course, wrong to damn this nation just because it doesn't run the way you want it to.
JCLifer 5 months, 4 weeks ago
It doesn't run the way its CONSTITUTION says it should.
Littleinvestor 5 months, 4 weeks ago
When I get my paycheck, my employer does not tell me how I can spend it. When he makes contributions to my 401K, he does not tell me how I can live after I retire. And when he pays the largest chunk of my health insurance (and has done so for 30 years), he does not tell me how to use my health insurance. And by law my doctors do not tell him how I use my health insurance. Of course, a broken leg, which I had this winter, is obvious but lots of us have medical conditions that are not obvious. Why should the "spending" of health insurance be any different than the spending of wages? Just something to think about.
Littleinvestor 5 months, 4 weeks ago
By the way, the premium did not go up in 2012. We'll know about 2013 in a couple of months (mid-year renewal) but one chronically ill person has gone onto Medicare and that will probably make a difference.
Commenting has been disabled for this item.