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Today's Poll!JCFD kicks off sales tax campaign
Capt. Jeff Tadsen of the Jefferson City Fire Department rings the bell atop the 1956 fire truck parked at Station No. 1 as firefighters and their families kicked off the Proposition 2 campaign. Photo by Julie Smith.
Tuesday, July 3, 2012
With just more than one month before the election, the Jefferson City Fire Department officially has started campaigning for a dedicated one-fourth-cent sales tax.
Citizens for a Safer Community, the committee endorsing the sales tax initiative, kicked off the campaign Monday at Fire Station No. 1, along with members of the City Council, city staff, Mayor Eric Struemph and off-duty firefighters and their families.
The sales tax proposal would reduce city property taxes by 17 percent, eliminating a 9.61-cent contribution to the Fireman’s Pension Fund, and replace the funding mechanism with a one-fourth cent sales tax that would sunset in 15 years. The Fire Department has shown the funds would pay for expenses in seven categories.
The categories include fire suppression and emergency equipment, firefighting and EMS training, apparatus lease/vehicle replacement, property tax replacement, station replacements and renovation, operational projects and improvements. Another category also provides for future fire staffing, adding three new firefighters, three new fire drivers and three new captains beginning in 2021.
If approved, the tax is projected to raise more than $41 million in the 15-year period.
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Comments
rodinman 11 months, 3 weeks ago
Folks, are you aware that if Prop 2 passes the reduction in property taxes can be reinstated, for other uses, by a vote of the city council. That is right, the city council can reinstate the tax and spend it for their "transformation" projects. Additionally, look at the proposed list of items the fire department is asking for -- a couple of good ones are a pair of binoculars for $3,300.00 and a personal flotation device for each fireman. Is each fireman issued an axe, a water hose and a ladder. No, they are placed on the truck and used by all. The same should be for personal flotation devices. Why didn't the fire chief ask for all this stuff before the vote on the transformation tax was defeated? It was not needed, it was covered by their budget. However, some on the city council and the mayor decided to trot out the fire department on a white horse for a sympathy vote to increase our taxesd. Vote no to Prop 2 on aug 7th.
rodinman 11 months, 3 weeks ago
No, but I can question a budget request and ask for more details. As for knowledge, yes; I oversaw a fire department as part of my military duties. No Tea Party, Republican or Democratic Party prattle -- just good common sense.
JMO 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Forgive my ignorance, but why exactly does a JC fireman need a personal flotation device? I mean, I know there's a river, but do they put out fires in the middle of it? I'm not being silly, I just really am wondering why they're necessary. Is it for wrecks on the bridge? Do they have to climb around on the outside of it?
Sequoia 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Sometimes firefighters need to rescue people in flash floods.
JMO 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Duh. Can't believe that didn't occur to me. Thanks...I feel much stupider. LOL
Forward 11 months, 1 week ago
Probably because we have multiple rivers, lots of low lying areas that are susceptible to flash flooding, and a few companies that rely on operations near the river like the sand plant and the water company.
JCLifer 11 months, 3 weeks ago
Everything else around here operates on a shoestring budget. We are proud to be the #50th state capital city. Might as well keep everything poor and broke as it always has been and vote this one down too. Folks like things the way they are around here and do not want to change.
Of course, Rodiman and others make good points. Why give them more money to mis-manage when they already cannot prioritize and effectively managed what little they have now? Cut back on all the brand new city vehicles every year. Cut back on all the free upgrades for the downtown property owners. Redirect the police to fight actual crime like drugs, rape, robbery, burglery, assaults, etc. instead of speeding and parking tickets. Do we really need to keep adding on the city Hall and building more maintenance sheds down on Hyde Park? Do we really need greenway trails built all over, but we exempt builders from having to put in sidewalks in our neighborhoods?
viktorkowski 11 months, 3 weeks ago
ask colorado springs how that tax reduction has been working out for them. more gifts from the tea party
attilla 11 months, 3 weeks ago
This is no tax reduction, only a tax increase. The current property tax supports the firemen's retirement fund. The sales tax brings in tremendously more money than the property tax, that is why the proposal has changed. The sales tax proposal will be used in place of general revenue. Jefferson City has stated they have a budget problem and may need cutbacks. The City council wants to move ALL fire department budgets to be supported by this sales tax, in addition, money could go the police department and EMS. Thus with The city of jefferson failing to properly the fire department in the past, this is a new way to shift money around. They City council wants more than Jefferson City residents to support the fire department now, and allow them to shift money now allocated to the fire department to other pet projects, (Convention center). The increase in sales tax will eventually reach the point that it will be cheaper for people to shop elsewhere. (Aren't the local merchants complaining now?). If you look at local sales tax rates, Jefferson City is starting to rise to the top in rates. Good budgetary policy would go a lot further than supporting everything with its own sales tax. If this passes, when its up for renewal in fifteen years, imagine the scare tactics the city would use to get it approved.
JCLifer 11 months, 3 weeks ago
Agree!
Earmarked taxes can result in unfair/crazy funding scenarios, such as the current state budget for most agencies slurping air, but Conservation Commission has more money than they will ever know what to do with, so they are buying up private property all over the state. Is this really what is best for our state?
hudson 11 months, 3 weeks ago
More taxes more goverment ,more goverment more taxes . Less goverment less taxes , less taxes less goverment .
Sequoia 11 months, 3 weeks ago
Instead of "more government" versus "less government," which offers no insight as to value, I would suggest having a discussion about "good government" versus "bad government" or "smart government" versus "dumb government."
I'm aware of no situation, anywhere, ever, in any context, where "less" of anything is automatically better or worse than "more" of that thing. Reflexively saying "no" to everything isn't that smart. No one would live any other aspect of their life in that way. Always saying "no" without weighing the merits would be a terrible way to run a business, a family, or a personal life, so why bring that attitude to governement? Makes a good bumper sticker, but no sense. Let's try a little harder to put our brains to good use.
Rodiman: Is the City Council's power to re-instate/increase the property tax a function of Prop. 2? That is, doesn't the Council have that power whether or not Prop. 2 is approved? Doesn't it make sense for homeowners to favor a property tax cut now, then raise a fuss later if they try to raise it? I'd rather see fire paid for out of sales tax rather than property tax, because it spreads the burden around more fairly to all those who benefit from fire suppression. But I'm uninformed about all the details. Take me to school if I'm missing something.
Also, I don't get this idea that a few cents more of sales tax will cause people to shop elsewhere. Like where? Taos? Anyone who uses the gas to drive any farther than that just to save a few cents on sales tax needs to find a calculator.
rodinman 11 months, 3 weeks ago
Keep things as they are and think outside the box on ways to recoup costs. Why not charge "out-of-towners" for services rendered whenever the fire department or police department are called to the scene of an accident and perform some function. A few things that come to mind are hazard materials containment and disposal, personnel extraction, fire suppression. If the FD shows up and does not use any materials then the "service" is free. Just bill their insurance company they way they get billed for replacement of a power line pole or for damage to a fire hydrant.
connor 11 months, 2 weeks ago
I 1/4th cent sales tax can really add up on those big purchases and certainly make it worth even a Jefferson City resident's time and gas to travel a bit for their purchase depending on what it is.
Businesses like wally world or target maynot take much of a hit but your large construction supply stores, car dealerships (if the tax applies to them) and other businesses that rely on large dollar transactions will take a big hit. Especially if Rolla, Fulton or the Lake has a competitive store.
Taxes never bring in more money by the time it is said and done and the fat lady sings. It has been proven time and time again.
melbrooks 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Regarding vehicle purchases: taxes on new vehicle purchases are collected based on where the buyer lives, not on where the dealership is located.
dor.mo.gov/motorv/salescalc.php
If I want to buy a fridge at Menard's for $1,000, the extra quarter cent will cost me...$2.50. I can't drive to Columbia for that. I'd have to spend at least $15,000 to make it worthwhile to go elsewhere--more, if I count my time.
That being said, it is my personal opinion the JCFD has great equipment and training already. I also believe the property tax is the most fair and appropriate way to fund JCFD operations.
connor 11 months, 2 weeks ago
I was more thinking about large scale home purchases like whole kitchens that type of thing. It is easy to spend 15k on that type of stuff. My wife spends 20K plus in her head every weekend just to re-do a bathroom.
tonto_goldberg 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Those kitchen and bathroom projects include a lot of labor, and labor is not subject to state or local sales tax. Freight and delivery charges will more than offset out any potential savings on sales taxes.
connor 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Labor? 20K would barely touch the materials especially for a kitchen job. Add in all the other taxes Jefferson City would like to levy and you have a big bite. If you want to be pecked to death by ducks or more importantly want to see your fellow Jefferson Citians peck to death. Then support yet another tax. The end result will be less actual revenue anyway.
tomsawyer 11 months, 2 weeks ago
So Im a firefighter and you just rolled your car over on the highway after someone cut you off and you're severely injured and trapped in your car. Im going to check to see if you're a city resident before I do anything. Oh, you're not? Thats okay I'll just get my Jaws of Life and backboard and then bill your insurance. Oh, you only have liability? Oh, well there's nothing I can do, I guess. Have a nice day. Drives off.
Just thinking outside of the box. (only the most over used cliche ever that never works). Thats code for I don't have any ideas, do you?
connor 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Find a city fire department that has never accepted Federal or State handouts and you may have a very abstract point. In the same frame that car owner has paid fire department taxes somewhere as well and using the JCPD argument statistically didn't use their local FD since as stated most of their calls are for non-residents.
I find that claim suspect anyway but we won't quibble.
tomsawyer 11 months, 2 weeks ago
45% of all call are from non-city residents, per handout obtained yesterday at the Prop 2 booth downtown.
connor 11 months, 2 weeks ago
As I said I would like to see actual data on that figure. Including whether they were counting two car wrecks with one a resident and another not a resident as a non-residential call. Where these non-residential calls were to. If to the highway then the trade off for said non-resident flow is worth the occasional non-residential call. Was it heat exhaustion on the foot bridge? That wonder of increased Jefferson City spending traffic. Etc etc.
I simply find that 45% claim a bit hard to swallow and believe it was a situationally modified figure.
Forward 11 months, 1 week ago
I think they are referring to the fact that the city almost doubles during the 8-5 workweek. A lot of people travel from the surrounding areas for better employment sought here in JC.
JCsleeper 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Guess we're members of the new-sales-tax-of-the-month club.
JCLifer 11 months, 2 weeks ago
We need to get rid of all property taxes, or at least make them fair. Why should a homeowner of a house worth $100,000 be taxed at such a higher rate than a land owner who owns land worth $100,000? The homowner pays 2/3 more tax than the landowner for the same value of property.
Why should someone pay taxes on property every year? Maybe pay the tax when they aquire it, but why keep taxing them over and over and over for the same piece of property?
They probably already paid income or earnings tax on on the money that they used to buy the property with anyway.
Sales tax and/or flat income/earnings taxes are so much more fairer than Draconian property taxes. You make it? You get taxed on a certain percentage. You spend it? You get taxed on a certain percentage. You save it? You don't pay taxes on it.
JCLifer 11 months, 2 weeks ago
No wonder a lot of people think that the government is evil or at least inept. Around here it is.
Sequoia 11 months, 2 weeks ago
While the exact rate is certainly arguable, I can see the point of the property taxes I pay. A person who has a home on their land has more to protect, and thus benefits more from city services from year to year, than a piece of vacant land.
But you make a good point about taxing getting and spending instead of saving.
centerguy56 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Lifer: Could you explain further your homeowner vs Land owner math?
rebooter 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Keep things as they are and think outside the box on ways to recoup costs. Why not charge "out-of-towners" for services rendered whenever the fire department or police department are called to the scene of an accident and perform some function. A few things that come to mind are hazard materials containment and disposal, personnel extraction, fire suppression. If the FD shows up and does not use any materials then the "service" is free. Just bill their insurance company they way they get billed for replacement of a power line pole or for damage to a fire hydrant.
This is just the type of thinking that has the cost of medical care soaring... Do you really think if would be 'free'?? Who do you think would pay for it. I mean the fuel and equipment costs alone have a cost associated with it. If you own property in Jefferson City, you and you alone are paying for this free service to others. Additionally, this is not just about City residents vs. non City residents. It is more accurately about property owners and non property owners. Everyone who rents property in JC gets this for 'free'...payed for by those of us who pay the tax as it is. I think that if you are a NO voter on this tax, and you live in JC, then you must be a renter. If you see this as a tax increase it is only because you EXPECT those of us that pay our property taxes to pay for it for you. I will agree that there is always the likely possiblilty that funding for the fire department is mismanaged. That is an administrative concern and should be looked into. However, firefighters responding to your emergency, whatever it may be, will do the best they can with what they have in order to save you and yours. I see it all the time in the news that victims never think that something like this (their emergency) could never happen to them... And then it does. And then at that time they want the very best fire department that money can buy to save the day for them. That 45% of the non-resident calls that you speak of are not just out of towners... rather just people who are not property owning tax payers. I'm voting yes. I think that the 25 cents from the $100 I spend is a very small price to pay for the product we ALL will receive. These men and women deserve our support on this!
rodinman 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Renters pay property tax on the property they are renting, it is included in the rent. Therefore, your argument about it being aboput properlty owners and non property owners is false. I'll vote No on any tax increase if I believe the current (at the time of the vote) funds are mismanaged. No need to give them additional funds to mismanage. I believe the firefighters provide a tremendous service.
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