Mo. Senate panel endorses union legislation

Monday, January 30, 2012

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — Legislation to make Missouri a “right-to-work” state is again coming up in state Senate.

A senate panel last week endorsed two bills that would make it a misdemeanor to require workers to pay union fees as a condition of employment.

One of the two proposals, sponsored by Senate President Pro Tem Rob Mayer, would go before voters if it passes the Legislature. The other would go to the governor’s desk.

Business groups say such laws could help the state attract more jobs, while unions say the measures would allow people to get benefits without paying for their representation in bargaining talks.

The legislation in Missouri comes as Indiana appears close to becoming a “right-to-work” state. A Republican bill there passed the House and is headed to the Senate.

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Union jobs bills are SB438 and SB547

Online:

Senate: http://senate.mo.gov

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Daddy 1 year, 3 months ago

Wow union busting in Missouri? Say it isn't so! And people wonder why Missouri is such an impovrished pathetic state where people have to work three jobs to make ends meet. But hey! Support your local Republican they love when you throw away your working rights and line their pockets!

spelchek 1 year, 3 months ago

It's not busting, the law would simply give workers the option to pay dues. Not by force which the unions currently practice in order to funnel money to the DNC.

Daddy 1 year, 3 months ago

Oh look another one lol, no wonder Mid Missouri is suffering so bad, the people really are sheeple. Spel if you don't have the whole workforce behind collective bargaining then eventually the business can hire only those that don't want to be union. Once the union loses power guess where wages go, that's right you just went from $20 an hour to $10 if your lucky. More than likely you will be working for $8.25, but I'm sure you can fine a few extra jobs to make things better, right? LOL!

spelchek 1 year, 3 months ago

In regards to the new Volkswagen plant built in the right to work state of TN: "...the plant will pay starting workers about $27 an hour in wages and benefits, according to estimates by industry analysts. That's roughly half the $52 an hour cost of labor at the Detroit Three auto makers and some non-union U.S. plants owned by Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. It comes as Korea's Hyundai Motor Co. and Kia Motors Corp., whose Alabama and Georgia plant labor costs are similar to VW's, are gaining share against Detroit and Tokyo rivals."

asb 1 year, 3 months ago

$57/hr may be high, but you make a great case for right-to-work slashing pay. Do you really think cutting $30/hr will benefit the auto market, the buyers, the tax base in these low-pay states? I think the auto co stockholder will love it, and my 401k likely holds some auto co stocks in its portfolio, but my k took a nosedive on greed and lack of financial regulation more than screwing the auto workers of Tennesee did. Sorry, right-to-work does also mean for less, and in some cases, lot's less.

TraceyT 1 year, 3 months ago

Daddy, I have mixed feelings about unions, but if unions have provided great wages for Missourians, why are wages so low when the "busting" is just starting now?

JCLifer 1 year, 3 months ago

If union membership pays so well, how come everytime you see a union bumpersticker on a pickup, the pickup is a rolling heap of a wreck? You never seen union stickers on nice new pickups.

wyriontair 1 year, 3 months ago

WONDERFUL!!! No one should have to pay dues to get a job in our state. Unions are not what they started out as. If we get rid of them, the more money people would have in their pockets, not going to Union leaders to line their pockets and send it to politicians. Unions have driven up costs on almost everything and sent a lot of businesses overseas and south of the border and that includes the presidents jobs czar, who sent his businesses overseas.

Daddy 1 year, 3 months ago

Don't like unions? GREAT! I have an $8 an hour job for you where you pay for your own healthcare, when would you like to start? LOL! the reason business went overseas is because the fat cats wanted more than one yacht and didn't want to share profit with the workers, it had nothing to do with the unions, simply the greed of owners and management.

asb 1 year, 3 months ago

Workers are just as greedy as owners/managers, nobody got shortchanged in the "me, me" department at birth, but the owners have power while the workers in a non-union world don't.

NoMoBigBro 1 year, 3 months ago

I couldn't find the button for the little smiley guy that is rolling on the floor laughing his arse off, for asb's comment... :(

Daddy 1 year, 3 months ago

You nailed it asb and that is why folks work paycheck to paycheck because as the unions are busted the divide between lower class and upper class widens. There is no longer a middle class mainly due to union busting.

asb 1 year, 3 months ago

I don't accept your position that taxes and regulations are what is harming business or the economy in general; both are easily adjusted and are needed, but the greed that has robbed the economy of much of its wealth and fire is here to stay. It too can be controlled, but for nearly a decade the American business community muzzled that control at nearly historic levels and we've all paid the price, except the wealthiest of us. Yes, the middle class gets services for their taxes, and so do the wealthy. Recently, however, the middle class has paid a proportionately larger amount of the burden.

Sequoia 1 year, 3 months ago

Grace, this is not true. As a fan of the free market, I'm sure you've studied "Wealth of Nations," by Adam Smith (Just get the Cliff Notes. It's a brutal read.) The man credited with describing "the free market" said that in a perfect capitalist system, wages will go to subsitence level. That is, in a perfectly capitalist system, there is no middle class. Workers get only what they need to survive. This is why Adam Smith himself did not advocate perfect, unregulated capitalism, and that's why we have an economic system consisting of a capitalist engine with socialist brakes and steering wheels, if you will. The free market isn't some magic system that will produce all good things if we just let it alone. That's why we have regulations... to create and protect the middle class.

The debate should always be about better regulations. Not no regulations.

asb 1 year, 3 months ago

Well Cliffed. There hasn't been a free market in western economics in written history. War, darn unions, resources, energy, transportation, culture, and the weather a just a short list of the forces that tweak Smith's models. Most economists try and model a fair market and most extreme capitalists strive for a controlled market, but the free market is a utopian dream never, ever, realized.

asb 1 year, 3 months ago

Technically true, we can all migrate, educate and move on. But not really. Education and training costs more than many ever have, let alone between jobs. Migration may have made American demographics, but it's generally not a good thing and disrupts the areas left and those migrated to. California initially benefited from the dust bowl migration but now suffers from overpopulation, and Oklahoma is still recovering from it. Sorry, but putting this so heavily on the worker is not acceptable or reasonable.

asb 1 year, 3 months ago

All markets are closed on some scale, and all have connections to larger markets. Example: low wages and lack of competition prevent any real innovation coming from the local printers, yet no printing innovation fails to take hold here due to the large amount of printing being done locally. Also, consider the large number of chains and franchises here, a lot of local money gets away through them, but they also bring in products and marketing that would rarely occur in a city the size of JC.

spelchek 1 year, 3 months ago

Nobody is stopping you from starting a business and unionizing. Put your money where your mouth is.

John 1 year, 3 months ago

Given the situation with low paying jobs and employers who will do anything to save a penny, even if it requires cheating the employee (read Wal-Mart mentality), if we "get rid of them" it will not be long before 14 and 15 year olds are working full-time jobs. Considering the HUGE distance between the middle class and the upper class, the gap would only widen. I am so sick of the selfishness of many business owners being blamed on unions. Yes, unions have sometimes abused the power they had. However, just look at the state of railroads and American shipping (virtually non-existent); all because the robber barons refused to reinvest. It is readily apparent that we are still suffering from that kind of attitude.

asb 1 year, 3 months ago

I've been in two unions in my life and they both took more from me in dues than it cost to run the union. One had never had members grip and when they did, the dues went down. The other had thugs growl at you when you griped. The corruption of unions is bad, just like the corruption of any organization. Law and participation are the only antidote and both work. As far as non-union folk paying into the union at a mixed job site, too bad. There ARE costs involved and the "owner," even if government, has agreed to spread the cost. Non-union pay lower dues than union. Take away unions? OK, ask the Chinese Foxcon employees what happens when the "workers" no longer matter in an economy. Some type of legal, negotiating, strike enabled organization is needed to keep workers from becoming gears and disposable tools in a production system, and I'll take unions over the extremes offered by the Left and Right any day. An annonymous phone line and good RICOH enforcement go a long way toward keeping crooks out of the till. America's unions modernized worker representation and still lead the world in getting fair pay for hard work. Drop them at your peril.

spelchek 1 year, 3 months ago

My very first introduction to a union was via a lunch meeting where a fat, pony tailed, government union cry baby ranted on about how my supervisors will be out to get me. I stopped listening about 5 minutes into the lunch. That state is still filled with a bunch of entitlement minded gimme dopes with no sense of how good their situation really is. Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for me.

Daddy 1 year, 3 months ago

Spoken like a true Republican business owner Spel LOL!

spelchek 1 year, 3 months ago

I grew up around small business. I saw good times, bad times, rich times, poor times, stress at home, long hours, lots of risk being taken, a marriage almost destroyed, among many other things that come with owning your own business. Making payroll can be a scary thing when so many people depend on you for their living. Tell me, just how much of someone elses money aren't you making? What entitles you to it? Could it be that putting round pins in round holes isn't worth paying your required $20 /hr? Once again, nobody is stopping you from starting your own business with your own money and paying the wages you see as fair. But, that would be work, wouldn't it.

Daddy 1 year, 3 months ago

No spelchek that would't be "work", paying employees what they deserve would be the right thing to do. Your story puts the pieces together to show the larger puzzle. Looks like another greed driven business owner who thinks their employees deserve $8 an hour. Thanks for showing your true colors lol!

Sequoia 1 year, 3 months ago

"Nobody" is stopping him from starting his own business, but the market is. Every single American can't just start their own business and be their own boss. Not everybody gets to run a successful company, otherwise it is not "success." We have lots of workers and a few bosses. This discussion is about what options workers have to look after their own interest. And make no mistake, their interest is all of our interest.

wcywing 1 year, 3 months ago

so anyone that wants to make money is greedy? you know who is more greedy, the government, they hate competition.

Gabrielle 1 year, 3 months ago

why is healthcare something an employer would consider providing? I understand it has its roots in post WWII employment - emplloyees wanting to look attracitve to potential employees. Seems it has become a big headache.

John 1 year, 3 months ago

Lost production time . . . It's better to get 'em fixed and get 'em back to work sooner.

Gabrielle 1 year, 3 months ago

the benefits outweigh the costs?

TraceyT 1 year, 3 months ago

Lost production time may be the reason for a smart employer to provide health insurance, but the historical reason was that the federal government put caps on wages, and providing "benefits" was a way to get around the wage caps and entice employed workers to come to your company.

JCLifer 1 year, 3 months ago

Health insurance is much cheaper when purchased in large groups. Employee groups are cheaper to insure than neighborhood or church groups because employees are all working-- whereas the other groups may have several people who are sick, hypochodriacs, or otherwise too sick to work, but who are expensive to insure.

The better and more healthy group you can get into-- the cheaper the insurance and the better the benefits will be. That is why USAA has insurance so much cheaper- for years they only insured officers in the military- college educated, healthy and fit individuals.

Gabrielle 1 year, 3 months ago

this, then, is why businesses are promoting exercise etc in the work place - keep the costs down.....then, as John pointed out, procutivity is maintained at a higher level. Yes?

JCLifer 1 year, 3 months ago

yep!

spelchek 1 year, 3 months ago

USAA is a great company!!!!!

kentheco 1 year, 3 months ago

I had a chance to join a union while working for the State of Missouri; I didn’t because no current information as to their activities was provided, nor did they provide proof that they had provided any benefit for the dues they collected. We (the employees) then formed our own association and started the process to get them removed. At this time, union members from other states showed up trying to stop us from replacing their organization. We successfully formed our own organization to represent us. Then the real truth came out. As employees of the State of Missouri, we were prohibited from striking and everyone knows that getting the elected officials to bargain in good faith is next to impossible.

asb 1 year, 3 months ago

How was your association not a union? It was a good idea to form your own, competition is good in almost everything. Non-strike rules for public employee unions is generally not a good idea. If a worker cannot fire their organization, you've got reverse tenure, the union goes rank, and the worker suffers in the long run. A union not allowed the basic right of work stoppage is a neutered social club with too much time and money on its hands. Police? Fire(wo)men? EMS? military? OK, now the gray sets in and what DO we DO? In KC years ago, twice, the firemen went on strike. The city's solution was to have the police scab and work fires. Nearly lost a few good cops. Bad idea. Unions can be bad, corrupt, greedy, and can express all the evils available to human organizations; but without them we're less, just like church, business.and (gag) politicians.

JCLifer 1 year, 3 months ago

At-will employment = freedom for both sides. Employer or employee can terminate for any reason or no reason at all at anytime.

asb 1 year, 3 months ago

Except that one often starves to death without work, while the other just hires somebody else. Exaggerated of course but really, nobody works at-will but to eat.

JCLifer 1 year, 3 months ago

I can speak for myself. I don't need some fat greedy union boss to speak for me. I have no problem advocating for myself and talking directly to any employer. Union folks seem to be scared or maybe lazy-- I don't know why they think they need someone else to do their speaking for them.

Sequoia 1 year, 3 months ago

I think it is more a question of power than laziness. A group of unified people have much more power than a single person. Your boss can fire you. He probably can't fire everyone.

JCLifer 1 year, 3 months ago

I guess that is OK if you want to be like everyone else. It probably doesn't work well for those who want to work harder and be treated better than the average employee. Seems like it would be hard to get ahead and be recognized for hard work and thinking of innovative solutions to workplace problems under a union.

Sequoia 1 year, 3 months ago

I'm not sure why. If unions are functions of laziness, as you suggest, then I would think it would be easier for you to stand out among the union sloths than in a situation where everyone has to fight to keep their job.

Gabrielle 1 year, 3 months ago

I understand there are penalties for doing things that go against the union....even when you are part of it. there is an accepted line of behavior. don't step out of line.

tonto_goldberg 1 year, 3 months ago

Something like 99% of the people believe they are above average.

viktorkowski 1 year, 3 months ago

if you want to understand the right to work concept you have to take a look at who started it and where these people are from. it began in the southern states by a few industrialists who are worth several hundred million each. next take a look at the states that turned into right to work states. you will find they have become a temp employer's haven. people are only hired for a few months at a time then fired at will. no 401k, no health insurance, nothing. basically it has allowed these millionaires to get labor for free and let the state pick up the tab.

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