2 schools of thought

Jackie Coleman, who served for 15 years as a board member with the Jefferson City Public Schools Board of Education, voices her concerns while addressing the current board during an open forum at Monday night’s meeting.

By Kris Hilgedick

Tuesday, December 11, 2012

After simmering quietly for years, tensions regarding the construction of a new high school erupted to the surface Monday night at the Jefferson City School Board’s meeting.

Speaking before the entire board for the first time, Rod Burnett and Dan Ortmeyer, spokesmen for “Citizens for 2 Public High Schools,” shared their group’s concerns about the board’s plan to move forward with a single new high school east of Missouri 179.

“We believe the two high school option is the way to go,” Burnett said.

He warned the board he doesn’t believe voters can be persuaded to accept a single high school. “You’ll be spending additional tax money to support an initiative the district doesn’t want,” he said. “We are not anti-tax. We could be some of your biggest supporters.”

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Clayton 5 months, 1 week ago

"He warned the board [that] he doesn’t believe voters can be persuaded to accept a single high school. " ...maybe because he's actively persuading voters to reject it?

] I think "Citizens for 2 Public High Schools" is a euphemism. These guys want to kill the idea of improving JC's HS system all together, and are feigning support for an idea the community already said it would not fund. (The community rejected paying for 2 schools in that recent survey, and we've been rejecting it for more than 2 decades. Dan and Rod know this. ) Where were Dan and Rod during the year-long community driven research phase? Those committees came up with 3 possibilites. The two campus option was there. The single campus with 7 separate academy buildings (with about 400 kids each) won out hands down.

I'm pretty sure Dan's kid(s) (one at least) goes to Helias. This guy either has alterier motives or is seriously mistaken. He said on KOMU that the new school will be 3500 kids (...more like 2,670...the guy should read the NewsTrib...). If he really wants schools of 800 students or under (like Helias), he should be all for the Academies concept. Each academy would average around 400 kids, all to themselves, within their own Academy building. Perfect. The 7 Academies wont, however, function in two high schools of 1300 kids. Less popular -yet essential- academies would have just 100 students or so... that's 25 kids per GRADE! A single, spacious campus with 7 high school academy buildings is closer to the path Dan has chosen for his child at Helias. Why shouldn't public school kids get that opportunity as well?

In a STL Post op-ed, Rod said - in support of building the Keystone Pipeline - "We should listen to experts." Education experts say that high schools of 300-800 are the ideal size. We have the potential to realize this ideal, but the numbers (of students) only work on a single campus. Our Board has listend to the experts. So, why the change or heart, Rod? [mid-way down: stltoday.com/news/opinion/mailbag/letters-to-the-editor-november/article_2a1d3f4c-448e-5f64-9685-7c2ad9c50ca5.html]

Both men may have reasonable explanations for what appear to me to be contradictions with the "2 public high school" position they've suddenly taken. I'd like to hear them.

TrueStory 5 months, 1 week ago

Blair Oaks.

mia 5 months, 1 week ago

SOMEONE needs to go back to school. (alterier)? I love, love Jackie Coleman. The Colemans are so well educated and terrific people. She is the ONLY thing I liked about that school board. I only wish I could vote on this because I so would. Fortunately, I took heed to the chants of "move if you don't like it" and can no longer vote there even though I still pay for that mess. And by the way, IF Dan sends his kids to Helias, he still has to pay for this with taxes. So whats the beef?" I pay for it and I think I should get a choice (still have a residence there) and have a voice. Thats the problem in that town. If you are not one of the special people, you don't count. I just sit back and watch the dog and pony show. And the beat goes on.

Timothy 5 months, 1 week ago

MR. CLAYTON, I don't know Dan, but I do know Rod. One thing I know without question is the integrity and high moral standards of Rod Burnett He served 20 years as a Marine. It is not neccesary to make personal attacks on an individual who has sacrificed so much. AND according to you quoting your experts "high schools of 300-800 are the ideal size, while Jeff City is closing in on the 3,000 range. Has the question been asked if an initiative petition can be put on a ballot to resolve the one or two high school issue? I know one thing, this school board is full steam ahead and it will take a court order to stop.

Clayton 5 months, 1 week ago

I'm very happy to hear that Rod's a man of integrity. It wasn't a personal attack. It's an effort to understand an apparent contradiction. I commend anyone who stands up for what they believe. That doesn't mean I have to believe it, however.

JCLifer 5 months, 1 week ago

This town deserves all the hell that it gets. People here work hard to earn it. This megaschool / juvenile prison camp is going to drive some more nails in the coffin toward killing this town.

People do not want to invest in the future of their town and their children and build two schools? That is isane.

I hope that someday soon the Missouri legislature wises up and votes to move the state capitol to a less embarassing place. I doubt if that will happen soon, because the statehouse folks pride themselves on having a embarassingly bottom-feeder state.

It doesn't have to be this way, but the stubborn and cheapskates here are happy to live in manure.

TickledPink 5 months, 1 week ago

We know how this is going to turn out. Nothing will stop them from doing the Academies and I see some political aspirations on both sides. Good - maybe Dan or Rod can use this to get on the board or City Council and somewhere down the road there might be some changes. I'm just glad my youngest will be out of school by the time all this is built and none of my children have any desire to stay in JC so I don't have to worry about my grandkids going here either.

JCLifer 5 months, 1 week ago

I predict that the vote for the higher tax and debt wil be defeated. Citizens are so fed up with their government they are not going to vote them another dime.

Blair Oaks, Helias, Concord, Lutheran High School, etc. enrollments will continue to climb.

lovebeingmom 5 months, 1 week ago

The plan that the district is considering gives this community the best of both worlds. It gives students smaller schools in which to learn. Each academy will feel like its own small school (between 400-600 students) but will have all of the activities that can be provided to students who attend a larger high school. I believe students who attend schools like this do not feel like they are getting lost in the system but just the opposite. They feel like they are part of a small high school with many choices. It is my understanding that each academy has their own principal and counselors. It seems to me that instead of getting lost in the system, the students would have much more attention. However, if the district would split the schools in two, it seems like everything would be watered down. There would be less educational opportunities for students.

JCLifer 5 months, 1 week ago

I remember when the district built Cedar Hill and Belair with those hiddous open classrooms where six classes shared on big room at the same time called "PODS". How could anybody think that was a good idea?

Same for how can anybody think cramming nearly 4000 kids on a gigantic high school campus with multiple buildings is a good idea.

Knock yourself out, JCSB.

Any predictions as to how run down and torn up Atkins Stadium will be in 3 years under Lincoln's leadership and maintenance?

kella65109 5 months, 1 week ago

@JCLifer, Nice way to make a dig at LU in an article about JC High School. Reed Stadium is clean and the field in top condition. Under LU leadership and maintenance!!!!

attilla 5 months, 1 week ago

The purpose of school is education. NOT sports. The coming spike in students is from age 5 to 8 years of age. The recent transformation sales tax had as one their reasons was to retain young professionals, and have them quit leaving the area. This spike in children would correlate to the majority of their parents being 25 to 35 years old. Aren't these in the young professional age range? Who do we believe now? Chamber of Commerce says these people are leaving, School Board says there is a spike!!! First have these two groups get their story's straight. The high school should have been broken into multiples years ago, the smaller the school, the better for education. Let's think about the kids Not Jay Spirit.

backesmarc 5 months, 1 week ago

Hey Attilla - why do you think the Board is moving forward with this plan? Do you really think it's about sports? If you do - you need to educate yourself and become a part of the solution and know why we're going down this path. This option has nothing to do with sports and EVERYTHING to do with education.

Second - the spike in enrollment in grades K-2 and the demographic outflow from Jefferson City are mutually exclusive and have not been correlated in any way. The spike in enrollment is most likely a bubble as there are no demographic or census trends to suggest that it is not.

Just because we have an influx of K-2 doesn't mean that young professionals and young people in general are deciding to stay here. All of the data suggests strongly otherwise.

RobHunterJohnson 5 months, 1 week ago

I for one vote, some of these school board members will be voted on next year, or the year after that! The mega school is not the solution! We need two high schools! I cannot help but sense that Football has been the driving force at spending my Tax dollars for a long time! When the new stadium was built some kind of thought process should have taken place as to where the school district would be in 5 years? That is not happening in my VIEW! Rob

backesmarc 5 months, 1 week ago

Rob - do you have kids in the district? Did you attend any of the town halls, public forums, Q & A's or anything the district had regarding this solution? Have you visited the newjchs.us site? Have you read about academies? Do you know the economics of why we're pursuing one vs. two high schools?

If not - educate yourself and you'll discover this has nothing to do with a football stadium or a football team.

RobHunterJohnson 5 months, 1 week ago

To answer your questions no, but have in the past, No, but have attened other types of public sessions dealing with JC, such council , planning and zoning. Yes I have visited the new JCHS site, Yes I have been studing on the subject on of acadamies. I Have been trying to understand the economics of this. Having been a graduate of Parkway West, with an enrollment of over 800 seniors, That the oppurtunity was not readily available, over 70 kids try out for soccer, or from first to third string in band, PODs, that means no walls, New Math, and having survived all the new things they were trying in the 70s. ECONOMICS, our existing buildings have more life in them, than the board wishes to admit? 25 million to remodel? 45 million to build a new high school, 80 millon for a new acadamy style high school, with an elementry school added in to blend the costs, and a 3.1 miilion purchase of ground for a new high school. Which was a big surprise at the end of summer to most? Yes I am paying attention you better sell your plan better than you are! By the way who made the money off the land grab, enquiring minds what to know? Rob

MakeSense 5 months, 1 week ago

backesmarc, I appreciate all the work you did on the secondary committee. you and your wife dedicated citizens who were willing to give that much time to this district and willing to find solutions for all of our kids. I truly appreciated the comments you made at the school board meeting last night. I applaud you!

RobHunterJohnson 5 months, 1 week ago

backesmarc, you seem to be in the know according to MakeSense, so if we go to US High School Ranking Largest enrollments 2011, the top 100 on their list show me, if I was to add in the 9th graders on enrollment for this year our school would be just shy of 2500? That would place us at about the 70th largest school in the country do agree? Why are we that large? Rob

backesmarc 5 months, 1 week ago

Rob - what if I told you that splitting into 2 or 3 high schools wouldn't make a significant difference in academic achievement and that I can prove that with data from the Department of Elementary & Secondary Education?

Would it still matter how large our school is?

JCLifer 5 months, 1 week ago

Even though the research proves that students from smaller schools perform better?

Dave 5 months, 1 week ago

Though there are a thousand issues being thrown about with very poor support by both sides in this debate, let me raise just one more: When the two middle schools were built, school officials on more than one occasion boasted that their parallel design and large size would prepare the city for a future time when two high schools were needed. Simply by making a few superficial changes (i.e. raising the height of water fountains, etc.,) we were told, the buildings originally fitted for young adolescents could be just perfect for older students.
Currently, the middle schools house three grades (6-8), and there is no assertion that they are overcrowded, despite the fact that they currently house the "larger" graduating classes scheduled to hit High School over the next three years.
The socio-economic concerns regarding disparity in facilities between the old high school and a new one in a two-school solution would be completely avoided by converting the middle schools to two identical high schools, and making the current H.S./Nichols compound a middle school/junior high campus.
If the Simonsen building currently deemed acceptable for use by a college were in fact somehow deemed unacceptable for use by a public school district, the only construction project needed would be expansion of the current H.S. campus to accept one more grade (the 9th grade currently housed at Simonsen).
Why is the city now deprived of the benefits of one of the few truly forward-thinking design ideas ever implemented by the local district?

mikemojc 5 months, 1 week ago

Good idea! If those middle school building are running @ 75% or less capacity, there should be space to go 4 grades instead of 3. The current JC campus becomes a middle school, serving 3 grades, then the JCSB just needs to build another middle school somewhere.

RobHunterJohnson 5 months, 1 week ago

Dave, Now that is thinking out side the box, something this board is failing to do! Rob

JCLifer 5 months, 1 week ago

If the idea of a megaschool is to save so much money in operating costs by eliminating duplication, why hasn't the district applied this idea to the elementary schools? If the district would build a mega campus with five separate buildings for each grade, all the city's elementary students could go there and benefit from having only to be in a building with other students their own age group. This would cut way down on bullying, and the students would receive much more personalized attention. Think of all the money that could be saved! (yes, this would be a stupid idea, but why is it such a good idea for high school students?)

The one high school idea is only about JC Football. Nothing else. The elites want to continue to control everything.

mikemojc 5 months, 1 week ago

Mr. Clayton, in the 2011 school board survey, 74% of people were actively FOR a 2nd high school. What survey were you referencing?

He didn't say the academy would be 3500 kids right out of the box, he said it would be built for 3500 kids (7 academies of about 500 kids each - do math =3500), 'built for' referring to intended maximum capacity. That then begs the question, "what do we do when THAT fills up?" because demographic projections indicate that possibility in the not-to-distant future.

As far as the student count goes, both you and the school board need to pay more attention to your language. You've indicated that this is one great big school that isn't a great big school, but instead it's really 7 smaller schools that aren't really small schools, but one great big school. I get tired just trying to follow the logic on that one. :)

As far as any comments made on another subject, please don't muddy the waters by mixing Rod's keystone apples with his high school oranges. Should we listen to the experts? Yes, when the expects are drawing reasonable conclusions from known data. We're still waiting for the school board to post that data as they said they would at last nights meeting.

Based on what I've read and heard so far, I still don't see where the school board got the 2011 poll data indicating near 3/4's support for a second high school , and made the interpretation to the current plan of one single mega-replacement school, disposing of the current facilities for a value of pennies on the dollar.

MakeSense 5 months, 1 week ago

Did you read the part of the survey where the 74% of the people dropped down to 49% of the people when they heard how much it was going to cost? Did you read the part of the survey that said 66% of the people would vote for a different option if it fit their price range?

mikemojc 5 months, 1 week ago

Yup. Did you know that people like free stuff, but get hesitant when they have to actually pay for it? Did you know that no matter which direction the school boards goes, it's gonna cost somebody something? It's true! ;)

The trick, as it were, in all these discussions, is striking a balance between what will work best and what we can afford. Yes, creating more facility capacity is going to incur more operating/maintenance costs. Many of us feel that the value of operating two separate campus's is worth the slightly increased building and operating costs.

Your point has merit, but I think the voters will see that the cost /value ratio of 2 campus's is worth it.

I'd like to point out that I still fail to see how building a 2nd high school, smaller than the SB's current plan, but able to handle about 1/2 the high school students and be 'scalable' to allow for future growth will cost so much more than the SB's current plan for one replacement mega-school. The SB hasn't convinced me of that , yet.

JCLifer 5 months, 1 week ago

Are there any other cities with our population that have one megaschool with academies like the board is proposing? I would like to know how it is working for them.

I cannot believe any young professionals would want to move to a town that has a huge megaschool, regardless of how many academies it has. Perception is everything.

This decision is not only about education our children and preparing them for their futures. It is also about designing a local education system that is attractive to potential employers and potential residents who may want to relocate here. It is about JOBS for our town. It is about ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

I suire would like to see a similar sized town with one megaschool public school running the academies model. I want to know about JOBS and STANDARD OF LIVING for that town. I want to know about growth. I want to know about STUDENT LEARNING for ALL STUDENTS at that town. Are there any?

I asked which schools the board visited on another thread, and no one would answer. It sounded like they went to Nashville, TN, which is nothing like Jefferson City.

If this is such a well-researched and good idea, surely the proponents will have several cities to share so we can learn what they think they have learned.

lulu 5 months, 1 week ago

Lay off the personal attacks and stick to the issue. With that being said...the ONLY reason there are those that reject the idea of two schools is because of football. Ridiculous! Stop worrying about sports and start worrying about academics.

By the way, I worked with/for Rod Burnett for four years and he was ALWAYS a fair and upstanding leader. He didn't act as a boss...he acted as a co-worker.

So thank you to those pushing for two schools and please don't stop...many, many of us appreciate and are counting on you to lead us where we want to go; two schools!

dokeus6 5 months, 1 week ago

" Stop worrying about sports and start worrying about academics."

That is where my main concern is in the academy approach. I have yet to find an answer for this scenario.

You have two students coming into the academy. One chooses the science and technology academy the other chooses the English and arts academy.

Will both students receive the same basic instruction through the first two years of there time in the academy?

JCPSDad 5 months, 1 week ago

The answer is yes. Each student must complete exactly the same core standards prescribed by DESE. Each academy just delivers the material in different ways. The S&T kids would have Algebra problems worded in projects related to S&T and EA would have the same concepts taught in projects related to EA.

sancho 5 months, 1 week ago

Another poster answsered your question (which is a very good question). If you go to the FAQs on the newjchsdotus website, the issue of all students receiving basic instruction is addressed

JCneeds2HS 5 months, 1 week ago

Enrollment statements in the news?

By Bob Watson. newstribune.com/news/2011/jan/24/building-bond-issue-may-loom-jefferson-city-school/ Monday, January 24, 2011.

Superintendent Brian Mitchell said, the district must make some decisions about buildings, even if a consultant’s predictions of adding from 500-3,000 more students over 10 years are too optimistic. JC Schools Review Expansion Plan Dec 5, 2011 9:41 PM abc17news.com/news.php?id=4497 Mitchell says the existing building can't keep up with what the district wants to do and the steady, slight increases it expects in student population over the next five and ten years. JCPS Discusses Enrollment Oct 9, 2012 7:32 PM abc17news.com/news.php?id=7832 Increasing student enrollment is one of the main reasons for the new high school proposal. School officials have adjusted their original figure of more than 300 new students to just about 250 this school year. Most of the growth is happening in kindergarten through third grade, which means the district is only going to keep growing. Superintendent Brian Mitchell also showed a timeline of the major growth spurts in the district over the last 50 years. District leaders expect to gain a couple hundred new students every year moving forward. Jefferson City School Board Discusses New School Plans Posted: Oct 9, 2012 7:05 PM by Amy Fenton Updated: Oct 9, 2012 7:40 PM komu.com/news/jefferson-city-school-board-discusses-new-school-plans/ At the board meeting, Luther presented the results of the survey and said it is far from what they wanted. He found residents who are not associated with the school do not understand the new program. "We have a lot of work to do. It is not surprising that parents of student are more informed, but we need to inform the other residents as well," said Luther. Once the community understands the program better, the school board members will apply for a bond to start building the school, and will sell the old buildings. The total cost of the new school will be about $70 million, Luther estimates. The school board hopes to have the new school done by 2014. Two Public High Schools Not Likely, Jefferson City District Says Posted: Nov 16, 2012 7:22 PM by Danny Spewak Updated: Nov 16, 2012 11:19 PM komu.com/news/two-public-high-schools-not-likely-jefferson-city-district-says/ But Luther said that 2011 survey isn't necessarily a barometer of public interest. "You can look at that, but it's two years old now," Luther said. In 2012, Jefferson City Public Schools conducted another survey, but this time, it did not ask respondents whether they preferred one or two high schools. Instead, it focused questions more about the structure of the proposed academy system. "I have to be frank, that question [about two high schools] wasn't really part of this second survey because the board felt they were satisfied with the single high school option," Luther said. "They felt that was the right direction to go."

MO4LIFE 5 months, 1 week ago

Ignoring the citizens and taxpayers and doing what they want to do. JC at its finest.

MakeSense 5 months, 1 week ago

What was ignored? I don't think anyone is ignoring the part of the survey that says, "we aren't willing to pay the cost." The second high school failed at vote the last time it was put on the ballot.

connor 5 months, 1 week ago

Don't you think 16 years old is a little early to be having these kids choose a path of the magnitude you are asking?

Hard Science or Liberal arts paths being chosen at 16 or one's Junior year of high school seems not only restricting in the long term but a bit of overkill in the short term considering the general ed requirements already in place for the State.

Even with 7 to 8K teenagers I find it difficult to envision there being enough left over electorate class time to justify separate academies per student. Also your academies in and of themselves are going to be way off balance with significant size disparity between the disciplines.

Socially this approach is going to produce other issues in the near term that will bring the politically correct multi-culters out in force as well. If you cannot see how this is going to play out with cries of racism/sexism the minute they see a dime going to one of these academies more than another than those who support this farce are fools. If you use the common modern day theme of making the few go hungry while the many are fed then the liberal arts academy will be turning out a glut of social workers int raining while the hard science academy will be begging for slide rulers. If you try and be equal about things there will be more screaming.

This academy approach is a permanent liberal victim activist dream come true and will be doomed for failure from the start.

sancho 5 months, 1 week ago

What is "a permanent liberal victim activist dream?" What does that mean Connor?

connor 5 months, 1 week ago

It means that like clockwork you will get students of certain "profiles" in each academy and either one of the academies will suffer (And I know which one that will be) or sure as the sun comes up the same ol complainers about privileged and over blown historical oppression will demand more money get s-ucked into a bottomless pit. Thereby making all the academies suffer.

TrueStory 5 months, 1 week ago

So what happens when too many students want to go to one Acedemy? Wait list or you need to choose a different career path? Sorry!

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