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Today's Poll!Your Opinion: Viewpoints on Amendment 2
Monday, August 6, 2012
From Sue Gibson, Jefferson City:
Dear Editor:
Amendment 2 troubles me.
No one can keep another from praying any more than they can keep one from thinking. So that is not a problem.
The proposition seems to require certain content in prayers, the two words “Almighty God.” I would hate for someone’s kid to be hauled off to the principal’s office after being overheard asking their dead grandmother to help them remain calm during an exam.
Prayers are such an individual matter, that the larger the group present, it seems to me the more important it becomes that they be expressed silently, for to apply to larger groups of people they must become diluted and general in focus in order to apply to everyone.
Let’s remain free by each being responsible for our own prayer and not monitoring those of others nor having ours monitored in turn.
No on Amendment 2.
_
From Warren Solomon, Jefferson City:
Dear Editor:
What sincerely religious, freedom-loving Missouri citizen would vote next Tuesday against Proposed Constitutional Amendment 2, an amendment to our state Constitution that affirms everyone’s right to pray? After all, this is the language we will see on the official ballot:
“Shall the Missouri Constitution be amended to ensure:
• That the right of Missouri citizens to express their religious beliefs shall not be infringed;
• That school children have the right to pray and acknowledge God voluntarily in their schools; and
• That all public schools shall display the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution.”
What the official statement on the ballot does not say, however, is that the current Missouri Constitution already gives Missouri citizens the right to express their religious beliefs and that public school students already have the right to pray and acknowledge God voluntarily in their schools.
Moreover, visitors to public schools will discover the Bill of Rights is already posted in large numbers of social studies classrooms throughout our state. The proposed amendment seems to change nothing.
To vote responsibly on this matter, however, citizens need to go to both the wording of current law in Missouri’s Constitution (http://www.moga. mo.gov/const/A01005.HTM) and to the proposed new wording in the amendment (http:// www.sos.mo.gov/elections/ 2012ballot/fulltext_1.pdf).
They need to be aware of what they are voting for.
The amendment in its entirety is really much longer than the current section of the Bill of Rights dealing with free- dom of religious expression. Sadly, the new language will likely cause confusion for public officials, school administrators, teachers, and students.
There is also a good chance that it may lead to conflict and lawsuits that could be costly in time and money for both the state and local school districts, whose resources are already tightly stretched.
Laws can have consequences that are unintended and sometimes harmful.
This proposal, if it becomes law in our state Constitution, is likely to have such consequences.
Marry Me
Comments
asb 9 months, 2 weeks ago
Ms. Gibson explains perfectly why organized religion is of less and less value to the individual as it gets more and more adherents and gets more and more organized. Mr. Solomon is correct in the lack of need for redundant rights expressions, particularly when Amendment 2 is so poorly and vaguely written that it could well have the opposite result than wished for by its politically motivated sponsers and supporters. Vote no, give credit to the people who have already worked the federal and Missouri constitutions into their wonderful and completely effective state.
Sequoia 9 months, 2 weeks ago
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
Matthew 6:6-5
John 9 months, 2 weeks ago
Not a literal requirement. These and the accompanying passages of chapter 6 were in reaction to the Pharisee's pracice of teing their clothes, putting dirt on their faces, and wearing huge philactories in order to draw attention to themselvs.
To take these verses literally would mean that the only prayer a Christian should ever pray would be the Lord's Prayer.
Many times, the literal use of thes verses is used by Christians to justify hiding their faith because of embarrassment or timidity. It is also used by many who argue that it is somehow offensive to them to see a Christian pray and therefore want no regulations allowing them to practice their faith (interestingly enough, only the Christian faith) when and where they so choose.
TickledPink 9 months, 2 weeks ago
Has anyone stated why the Bill of Rights has to be displayed?
tonto_goldberg 9 months, 2 weeks ago
This is just a guess, but it probably has to do with creating the illusion that the proposal is not public prayer and creationism. It will be cancelled by the federal courts if it passes.
xhepera 9 months, 2 weeks ago
"Pharisee's pracice of teing their clothes, putting dirt on their faces, and wearing huge philactories in order to draw attention to themselvs."
Not metaphorically unlike what many still do today. People who call themselves Christian and who are constantly praying, but wouldn't know the "still, small voice" if it bellowed in their ears. The Pharisees are not gone, merely changed in form, place and practice.
"Many times, the literal use of thes verses is used by Christians to justify hiding their faith because of embarrassment or timidity."
Also, many times the literal use of scripture serves to justify the prejudices of those who call themselves Christian but cannot seem to keep even Christ's simplest commandments.
John 9 months, 2 weeks ago
I concur with both your paragraphs. That "still, small voice" can be awfully ellusive. One must be careful to listen while we pray.
I especially agree with you latter comment about the "literal use of scripture: which is what I was referring to in my earlier response. However, that is not to say that none of the Scriptures should be taken literally. Much of the Holy Bible can and should be taken literally with no apology. The meat of God's message is the gift of discernment and, of course, studying the Scriptures in context. One of the key things to remember is that the Bible interprets itself --- requiring us to use the entire Holy Bible in our studies, not simply one or two verses.
I also would like to add that ALL of us have problems with keeping even one of God's simplest commandments.
JCLifer 9 months, 2 weeks ago
Instead of wasting time on this tripe, i sure wish the Legislature would have worked on a jobs bill to help the economy. Missouri's economy is pitiful. They could have at least done something to help Ameren get going on the reactor, maybe passed some road money, etc. to get some jobs opened up to help all the un and under employed.
I'll pray anywhere and anytime I damn well want to. The government is not going to interfere with my walk with my Savior.
Sequoia 9 months, 2 weeks ago
Any so-called Christian who needs the government to approve and validate their faith is a worthless, simpering coward. They are a lapdog to power. All they care about is being petted and stroked by power. They are weak and small.
Jesus faced down death because power is terrified of the true Christ.
So, any faith embraced and publicly proclaimed by a politician is not the teachings of the true Christ.
Any true prayer is in silence. Anything else is an advertisement. Any prayer in public is not directed towards God. How could it be?
Most of the time I go to church, people come into the sanctuary chatting. During the mass, they look around, fuss with their kids, mumble the creeds, etc. As soon as the mass is over they start chatting again. They never spend one minute in silence. All they care about is that their neighbors see them in church, "being good." They vote for politicians who tell them they're good, that they're better than the rest because of their "faith."
That's why they are like frightened little puppies. They'll vote for this Amendment because they are afraid. Christ isn't enough for them. They need the government to tell them they're good. They need SOMEONE to tell them they're good. They are cowards.
John 9 months, 2 weeks ago
Your deep incite into your fellow man, you knowledge of all things, and your ability to know any and all about everything is always quite a treat to read. You obviously are the only true Christian because you seem to be the one who has an understanding of each person's true heartfelt thoughts and feelings concerning life, their fellow man, and their faith. Perhaps you should contact the diocese office and have them forward your name for the short list for cannonization, sainthood, and to be selected as Pope? Better yet, if you have such a poor opinion of your fellow congregants, perhaps you should reconsider where you attend. It is obvious they are not Christian, your cathedral is Christian, and it's teachings are not Christian -- this is obvious in your post. . .
Sequoia 9 months, 2 weeks ago
John, the word is "insight," not incite. How can you get that word wrong after TWO posts on interpretation of scripture?
You see, I'd make a terrible Pope. I'm more like the nun with the ruler.
How are my statements about the inner life of people around me any different than the third paragraph of your first post? Looks like we both claim to know "each person's true heartfelt thoughts," eh?
John 9 months, 2 weeks ago
You're absolutely correct. I used a word incorrectly. The last refuge of one who has lost the argument (debate) is to attack the spelling, grammar, typing, or punctuation -- unless, of course, it matters in understanding. However, in this case it obviously did not because you were able to select the proper wording. It really is quite simple. Further conversation on the subject reveals what one is thinking and feeling (in many cases). Such as your on-going diatribes and using Biblical verses bent to suit your argument instead of you using your argument in accordance with Biblical verses. You have done it before and were caught and now you were caught doing it again. You also went on at fairly great length to write of those who go to mass with pious (implied) you and are not quiet or reflective and therefore not true Christians. Sequois: you are truly a piece of work. Youl, your thoughts, feelings, and meandering arguments would make great study material for any psychology class. Now, I have better things to do today that stay in my study to read your silliness. You take care and have a nice day. . . If you will be so kind as to excuse me, I am going outside now.
Sequoia 9 months, 2 weeks ago
Sadly, most Americans believe in God the way children believe in Santa Claus. They mumble their little prayers and say the right things, hoping that the magical man in the sky will be happy with them. We can't imagine God, so we imagine a being like us with human emotions like "happy" or "angry."
When people forget the Holy Spirit, then they create "morality." Give up sainthood. It will be a million times better for everyone.
Just forget your "self" and let the mind become still. Wait quietly while the mud settles. No priest or legislator can do this for you.
The true Holy Spirit is like water. It flows in places most people reject.
spelchek 9 months, 2 weeks ago
So those who need government to tell them they need...say....healthcare are cowards too? All they care about is being provided for and stroked by power (otherwise you pay a tax penalty). They are a lapdog to power. Thanks for clearing that up.
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