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Today's Poll!New club aims to increase acceptance at Fulton High School
Monday, October 31, 2011
The rainbow was adopted years ago by the LGBTQ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered and questioning) community as a sign of diversity and inclusiveness.
Founders of the new PRISM group — named as a nod to that symbol — at Fulton High School are hoping to accomplish much the same.
“Our goals are to provide a safe, supportive space for marginalized students, raise awareness of anti-LGBT harassment in school and in society, educate students and staff on topics that affect those who identify as LGBTQ, and create a more open-minded, tolerant and accepting school environment,” PRISM sponsors Megan Youse and Jennifer Lee wrote in an e-mail response to a series of questions about the new club.
Youse, a P.E. and health teacher at the middle school and varsity volleyball coach at the high school, and Lee — a foreign language teacher at the high school — said the decision to form PRISM was prompted by students expressing a desire for some sort of support organization.
“We both believe that any school would benefit from a club that can provide a safe, supportive space for all students, but especially for those that are marginalized,” Lee and Youse said. “Often students are seen as outcasts simply because of their sexual identity, orientation or even perceived orientation.”
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Comments
Gotigers 1 year, 6 months ago
Shouldn't a high school club deal with learning the curriculum? Ex. Latin club, science club, speech club) I fail to see how a club that focuses on sexual identities should be allowed in a tax payer funded learning enviroment. To me this really oversteps the bounds and actually promotes certain lifestyles.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
Learning the curriculum? So, no sports teams? Please. Students can form any club they want. Good for them.
Gotigers 1 year, 6 months ago
with all due respect Sequoia, I must disagree. Students can't form any club they want. What if they wanted to form a Pro or Anti Abortion club?Or a certain 'ethnicity' club? None of those have anything to do with learning. I just think if it is the tax payer dollars involved it should be about learning. Does anyone know if JC or Helias offers this?
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
I'm not sure what "tax payer dollars" are involved here, but preventing and dealing with harassment has a lot "to do with learning" for these students.
Moreover, I'm not sure where you're getting the "having to do with learning" as the standard here. The law from the Supreme Court is that a school must treat all after-school clubs the same. A school may reserve after-school clubs for certain groups or discussion of certain topics, but the restriction must not be based on the viewpoint of the groups. For example, if a school allows students to form student groups that discuss current events, the school cannot prohibit a student group that discusses current events from a Christian perspective. It really depends on the school's policy, but the school can't prohibit students from discussing a topic just because it might make some other students or parents uncomfortable.
So, there is nothing wrong with what these students are doing. Good for them. And any Christian who feels the need to "express their faith" by berating gay teenagers needs to re-read their gospels.
And I'd love to see pro and anti-abortion student groups (especially if they debated each other), ethnic groups, or any other student group you mentioned, so long as they did not exclude any student who wanted to join. It's a big world, Gotigers, and there is room for all of us.
tonto 1 year, 6 months ago
Teachers usually, but not always, get paid extra to be club sponsors.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
That may vary from district to district. I got the impression at JC that they did not. I suppose I could be incorrect, but I think they only get paid extra for school sponsored clubs like glee clubs and pep clubs, etc.
Gotigers 1 year, 6 months ago
hello sequoia... you have well thougth out replys and I do agree with some of your statements. And yes, it is a big world and there is definately room for us all. My family is probably as diverse or more diverse than 99% of people on this message board. I just believe that clubs should be 'education centered'. I agree that a speech and debate club could debate current events and thats great. but it doesn't just stop at one issue, it considers all of them. I also would feel the same way about a 'straight' club or white, black, pink, doesn't matter. I believe a schools sole pupose is to educate. Not preach or sway or push agenda's.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
Hi Gotigers, I appreciate your point of view and the tone of your response.
So, are sports teams or the young Republicans "education-centered"? Do you think the school should re-write its policy to get rid of those groups? Is that the road you want to go down?
Also, you realize that the students started this group, not the school, right? The school just gives the students a place to meet. Can you explain how the school is pushing an agenda? And what do you think that agenda is? If you're on the same "gay conspiracy to turn your kids gay and atheist" page as Graceful, just let me know and I'll save my breath.
In your view, is the school "endorsing" the group simply because it did not prohibit the group? That's an odd definition of "endorsement."
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
There are black student clubs - no one would dare say they couldn't have that, would they? And yes, JC does have a LGBT student club, I don't remember the name, or at least it used to have. I saw a sign for it at an open house with my son. Students can form any club if they can get a teacher to sponser it -n which basically means they'll be in the room for the meetings, off the clock. My own son tried to form metal music club, but it didn't generate enough interest. I know there's a club for kids that play some card game - Yu-Gi-Oh or something. I can't really imagine what tax dollars you are talking about. There's no student/school time taken up. Meetings of student clubs are before or after school and when the school is already open, so it's not like they're using up janitorial time or utilities.
tonto 1 year, 6 months ago
Good luck with your intolerance club.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
A club organized to promote tolerance is an intolerance club? Just knowing a particular debate technique doesn't mean you shouldn't read the results before hitting Enter.
tonto 1 year, 6 months ago
I probably know a lot more gay people than you do. They are tolerant - they just want to be left alone. They don't even mind that I am not gay.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
I'm not sure why you think this club is "intolerant" of anyone. As for homosexuality's compatibility with both Christian faith and conservative politics, you should read through Andrew Sullivan's blog. He's one of my favorite conservatives, and he explains it better than I could.
3bunnies 1 year, 6 months ago
Right or wrong, wrong or right, gay or not, married or living together, premarital sex or sex, white, black , latino, hispanic, muslim, catholic, baptist, the list goes on and on. It's reality, we all exist here, and everyone needs a place.
Kudo's to Fulton.
tonto 1 year, 6 months ago
It's easier for Graceful to define "total depravity" - gay males who are not celibate.
NoMoBigBro 1 year, 6 months ago
If you need it defined for you, you may have none.
NoMoBigBro 1 year, 6 months ago
Let me help you latort...
mo·ral·i·ty /noun, plural 1.conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct. 2.moral quality or character.
Perhaps you are looking for some higher definition based on your Kant and Plato references. But really I think we're all just looking for the fact that people can and should act with a certain degree of virtue within their moral principles.
tonto 1 year, 6 months ago
The correct answer: Treat people as you would wish to be treated. Matthew, Chapter 7 Verse 12. It is treated a little differently by other apostles, but you do it first, you don't wait for someone else to obligate you. Pay it forward, to put it in a more modern idiom.
You're trying to tell us that morality is conforming to moral conduct, the practice of behaving morally, according to moral principles. You have defined the word using its root. There's always a simple answer to a difficult question, but it's usually the wrong answer.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
Love thy neighbor but don't get caught.
NoMoBigBro 1 year, 6 months ago
So...behaving morally is the wrong answer? Ok, wouldn't treating people as you wish to be treated the same as behaving morally?
Wait, I get your point. Actually, treating others as you wish to be treated yourself would NOT actually mean behaving in a moral manner if the person doing the treating actually liked to be treated badly themselves! Whew!
So tonto, how again is your "Treat other people..." answer right and my "practice of behaving morally" difinition wrong?
NoMoBigBro 1 year, 6 months ago
Ok latort, you seem to be some sort of philosopher or you just have a problem with definitions. If the latter is true, try dictionary dot com. It should help you with the meanings of a lot of these words you are having trouble grasping. These really aren't that hard of concepts to grasp.
NoMoBigBro 1 year, 6 months ago
Try this Chauncey.
On the concept of "rules of right conduct"...ready? Here it is, simplified for you. However, I have a feeling you may insert varying degrees of the color gray into it. Anyway, here goes...
1 - You help your neighbor rake his yard.
2 - You sneak into your neighbors yard and steal his rake.
Now, which of these two things would YOU consider right under the "rules of right conduct"?
NoMoBigBro 1 year, 6 months ago
Ok, I tried to make it simple for you. I should have stated that there are no other circumstances involved, I thought that was implied. Sorry.
Based on your answers, I see that you are just argumentative and I understand that, I work with a couple people like that. Just the way they are. Still good people though.
So, to your answers let me add this...
1) Your neighbor being a pedophile has no bearing on YOUR moral capacity. The implied statement was you simply helped your neighbor on your own accord.
2) IF burglars were, in fact, breaking into your neighbors window and you did, in fact, fight them off with your neighbors rake. Then...1 - you did not "sneak" into your neighbors yard for the purpose of stealing from your neighbor, and 2 - you did not steal his rake. What you actually did was defend your neighbor's property. Well done. I think you get a passing grade on this for that fact. :)
NoMoBigBro 1 year, 6 months ago
Bummer. You sound as if you are lost in a myriad of those tones of gray.
online_editor 1 year, 6 months ago
General reminder just to keep things on track: Please remember to keep the discussion focused on issues, rather than drifting into personal insults directed at other participants. Thanks. --Rick Brown, online editor, News Tribune
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
That doesn't take away the horrible pain of what Graceful said about my dog!
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
The difference between Right and Wrong can be simple, but often isn't. Helping a neighbor vs. stealing from him is simple enough for a dog, that's why it'll play with you while you rake and chew your leg while you steal, and using that as proof that morality is simple is . . . too simple. Right behaviour is often more complex and only simple from a religious or political perspective. Once you say that circumstances can impact right vs. wrong in a behavior, you're talkin' moral relatavism, a bogey of the conservative. To many, homosexuality is depraved and very wrong, so anything that supports or rationalizes it is intolerant of dogma and immoral. But since homosexuality isn't actually wrong, it isn't difficult to see biblical proscription as a source of moral relatavism :) Millions of religious fundamentalists consider their views the most moral and slaughter for their God, but considering the circumstances of their relentess warfare against the rest of us, they are immoral in killing for God. Do gays need a club in Fulton? Considering the history of their struggle against religious bigotry, yes for now, just like minorities need clubs to focus their struggles.
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
Nice leap asb. "The club is providing a safe, supportive space". So of course, religious bigotry is occuring. Yep, no question about it. So what is your evidence? The existence of this club in Fulton is your evidence. But of course, the non-existence of this club would also support your thesis. All roads in your arguments lead to the conclusion of religious bigotry. Your animus towards Christians is showing.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
No, I'm saying that calling the gay club an intolerance club, as Graceful did, is religious bigotry. If I'd known my animus was showing i'd have worn a longer shirt . . . sorry, my animus is toward religious fundamentalism, from any source. I consider anti-gay dogma a holdover from fundamentalist bibilcal anti-gay interpretations.
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
“Often students are seen as outcasts simply because of their sexual identity, orientation or even perceived orientation.” Often people - students included, determine who to associate with based on behaviors, values and common interests. Man, this is really deep stuff.
I guess anything other than total acceptance of everything means that those who are not totally accepted must be perceived as victims.
Actually, I do not really care about this article much. I see this issue as yet another attempt to put groups of people into protected victim status cocoons. "Oooh, look everybody, I am different, therefore I am a victim, therefore I have special needs and my struggles are more noble than your struggles, therefore please hold my hand." I have little truck with this. Probaby because I am handsome, smart, stylish, successful and cool and always have been.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
The kids aren't asking anyone to hold their hand. What is this "cocoon" you're talking about? It sounds like you're talking about something else. They just want to meet after school. They don't want special treatment, they just want to do their thing, just like other students and groups. You don't have to "accpet" them. Just leave them alone. Why is this such a big deal. What are you worried about?
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
"I guess anything other than total acceptance of everything means that those who are not totally accepted must be perceived as victims." Only when being shot, dragged to death behind trucks, beat up, denied jobs, denied the right to marry their own, etc. Otherwise non-straights are fine with their lives.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
Oh for Heaven's sake, let's take gay out of the equation. What if this were a student group for Hispanic students. Say they were considered outcasts or picked on because their parent's are from Mexico and they barely speak English. Say they get bullied and called wetbacks or whatever the slur of the the day is. Would anyone object to a Latino club, where kids could get together and talk about the problems they are having and how to foster acceptance within the school and community?
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
Hmm. Apparently not.
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
Really, Sequoia? I look forward to the story about the Fulton student group that decided to form a Cribbage Club. Oh wait, that wouldn't get an article in the JC newspaper, now would it? So PRISM is getting special treatment. Hmmm. Why are you accusing me of not accepting PRISM or not leaving them alone or being worried about something. (3 accusations that are baseless) Get off your high horse. Are you engaging in some kind of moral preening by rising to the defense of a group (a victim group, right? since they need protecting) that has not been attacked? I am saying that they are not special. Therefore, why the attention? Exactly because of moral preening - the moral preening of TOLERANCE. I repeat, I do not care about PRISM. I care about the victimhood industry that continues to belch out this kind of cultural pollution. Newspaper articles like this are part of that industry.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Dude, nobody's going to join a Cabbage club. a more generic garden club maybe but hello? Cabbage?
tonto 1 year, 6 months ago
I think cabbage is ok, but Brussels Sprouts are not aceptable.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
How do you know the Cribbage Club wouldn't get an article? Have you seen the stuff they put in this paper?
Hey, I'm not accusing you of anything. I thought you were arguing against acceptance. My bad. We both accept that this group is part of our student community. Cool. But you ARE worried about something... you called it "cultural pollution." You are worried about that, aren't you?
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
asb, show me the article of those crimes in Fulton. Don't you see it? You just made another leap. Keep your feet on the ground. Here is the leap: PRISM means there is intolerance means there is shooting, dragging and yada yada yada. You are another example of a moral preener. Trying to feel good about yourself should not be so much work. But of course that is easy for me to say because I am handsome, smart, stylish, successful and cool and always have been.
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
Cribbage, not cabbage. The card game that is sweeping the nation along with the "I- must- be-a-better-person-than-you-because-I-rise-to-the-defense-of-TOLERANCE-even-when-it-is-unnecessary".
Gotigers 1 year, 6 months ago
I appreciate your responses as well (It's too bad the left and right wing people who write into the News Tribune can't be as civil). No I don't think anyone is trying to turn a child gay or atheist. I would be just as much against a 'young republicans' as much as I would be against 'young democrats'. As far as sports, I guess I have seperated that in my mind as I viewed it as an activity that can keep kids healthy--like band or choir,etc... However, I do think we spend way to much $$$ on JC sports. Thank you for sharing ideals and thoughts. this is what makes America great--people can disagree and still have respect for the other.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
You know, I don't consider my opinion on this to be "left." I'm arguing for more individual freedom (kids can form groups they want) and LESS government intervention (school shouldn't shut down groups), which I take as the conservative view. Doesn't "left" mean "more government"? At least we can agree to "Go Tigers."
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
Sequoia, I am not worried. I am pointing out the near universal politically correct Pavlovian response to any issue regarding a person of alternate sexual orientation. Defend them we must! Even when no offense is present.
I am concerned that if a person does not toe the line in regards to "acceptance" then that person is a "homophobe" (in this case). Man, don't some people love throwing the homophobe card! Those who are intolerant will receive the "Grace treatment" at this particular venue.
I am agnostic towards diversity and I am against intolerance of intolerance. There is nothing wrong with intolerance. Intolerance is not the same as crime and does not lead to crime. Thank goodness our thought police are so toothless, so far.
I am anti-crime and pro free association. If someone chooses to not associate with people of alternate sexual orientation or not associate with people who have biceps the same circumference as their wrists, that is OK by me.
I do not see a thing wrong with birds of a feather flocking together. I like the way Judge Bork put it, something like this if I recall: "I don't want to live in a segregated society and I don't want to live in an integrated society. I want to live in a free society." Go ahead. Bork me.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
Uh, I have no desire to Bork you. I defended the group because it seemed like some posters wanted the school to not allow the group. I got on here to point out that would be unconstitutional. You are certainly free to be intolerant to whomever you want, so long as you don't try to use government power to enforce your intolerance. That's all I'm saying.
You'll find I'm much more of a know-it-all than a bleeding heart.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
Actually, you are. Nazi's and the KKK hold parades and the Westboro people (I've decided to stop calling them either Baptists or a church) picket funerals. You can be as intolerant and hateful as you want, so long as you don't actively infringe upon the rights of the people you hate. There's a reason there's no "hate speech" laws in the US like there is in other countries.
tonto 1 year, 6 months ago
So long as you keep it to yourself you can still think whatever you want. You can also say almost anything yopu want. It's when you start hitting people, shooting them, setting them on fire, and tying them up and dragging them down the road behind your pickup truck that law enforcement steps in. Some times.
Gotigers 1 year, 6 months ago
Latort... Evenkeel apprears very bright to me. I believe he is humorously (and correctly) pointing out that the more we demand tolerance it works in reverse and the more intolerate we become of those who don't want to be tolerant. Same with diversity. The more we demand diversity and equality, by setting groups apart from the majority, the more inequal we make it. Live and let live
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
JMO, I agree pretty much with what you wrote. A person can be as intolerant as they want to be and a person can be as hateful as they want to be. And a person can be as intolerant as they want to be and not be a bit hateful. Intolerance does not = hate.
Thank goodness we do not have hate speech laws. However, this nation needs to get rid of prosecuting for hate crimes in the criminal justice system. Punish the deed, not the thought.
An evil-doer bonks me on the head with a pipe, apprehend, prosecute and punish him. An evil-doer who hates Capris bonks me on the head with a pipe because I am wearing Capris, apprehend, prosecute and punish him the same. No additional penalty.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
I agree with you completely. There are many intolerant people who are kind, generous people in every other way. I have family members who would fit that description. They don't hate minorities, I don't think they have a hateful bone in their bodies, but I'd have to say they fit the lable "prejudiced".
Wtih respect to hate crime laws; to paraphrase South Park, "If a man kills a man for sleeping with his wife, does he not hate that man? Every crime is a hate crime."
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