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Today's Poll!Lawmakers still haven’t started examination of state employees’ pay
What salary study?
Sunday, October 2, 2011
Missouri lawmakers last May overwhelmingly approved a plan to study state employees’ salaries “and develop strategies for increasing the wages ... so Missouri will no longer rank 50th among states regarding state worker wages.”
But the 10-member Joint Interim Committee on State Employee Wages has not, yet, been given all its members — and it faces a Dec. 31 deadline for reporting its recommendations to the House Budget and Senate Appropriations committee.
Still, Mid-Missouri lawmakers named to the committee are not concerned.
“Sen. (Mike) Kehoe and I met with some of the people from the Office of Administration the other day, and they acted like they had a lot of the information already,” Rep. Mike Bernskoetter, R-Jefferson City, said. “So, I think we’ll be in pretty good shape.
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Comments
JCsleeper 1 year, 7 months ago
Well, surprise.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
Low priority for them like it has been for years.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
Someone has to be dead-last, right?
gofish 1 year, 7 months ago
“some of the people" "they acted like" “So, I think" "pretty good shape". Rep. Mike Bernskoetter, R-Jefferson City
Some, Like, Think, Pretty Good.
Now that what I call a reprehensable LACK of concern for their constituents.
Politics as usual. State Employees get the shaft while private industry gets a special session to discuss tax credits that the state can't afford, according to the Govenor, every time he feels like laying off a few thousand.
I'm facing the fact that in spite of decades of service, my employer does not value my loyalty and hard work. A valiant career....wasted. Thanks boys.
tonto 1 year, 7 months ago
Maybe, gofish, it would help if we could all Imagine that these problems are just "misunderstandings" and that "maybe some groups of employees aren't" 50th out of 50 and at the bottom of the rankings. We'd feel so much better at 49th, right? Hey, maybe one or two groups could be as high as 48th!
gofish 1 year, 7 months ago
I think we used to be 49th, but then the other state got cost of living raises. All we got was higher health insurance premiums for less coverage. At least our state legislature can still vote raises for themselves. Hippocrites. I never want to see another press release or departmental memo that says how valuable our work is and how much we are appreciated until someone is willing to put their money where their mouth is. Fluff doesn't pay the bills.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
Yep, West Virginia was below us until very recently. WEST VIRGINIA now ranks better than us! Sorry...but I keep thinking of how poor people in the Appalachians are.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
Who could be doing well with their pay now?
Governor's office staff? Appointed department heads and their top three layers of managers? Commissions and their top three layers of managers? Legislative staff?
Everyone else is #50 and gets the shaft.
TraceyT 1 year, 7 months ago
JCLifer, Your comment made me realize what the true solution is. This is all really the Governor's fault. He just needs to hire a bunch more cronies and pay them even more than the current ones. If he does a good enough job of it, the wage averages will be brought up enough so that MO will be back to 49th. Problem solved. LOL
3blindmice 1 year, 7 months ago
they kept telling me at my department that my pay was at least equal to other professionals in my field. until I applied to a job in the pacific northwest that will almost triple my salary. same job. same level of expertise. Do I think the legislature is being genuine in their interest to raise wages, no!
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
Of course, you do have to keep in mind that the cost of living is much higher in the pacific northwest.
John 1 year, 7 months ago
It wasn't when I lived there.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
Just realized that sounded like I don't think our pay is bad. Not so. We don't have the lowest COL in the nation, so why do we have the lowest pay?
3blindmice 1 year, 7 months ago
returned from a housing trip last week. grocery items are about 10% cheaper and apartment rentals are comparative. obviously homes are more expensive. but a advantage is I can live near where I work, abundant mass transit options to get around town ie ditch my car and save more, and I make almost 3X as much. honestly I do not understand why the average resident in jeff city do not support their state workers. low state job pay drags down all pay in the area.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
I completely agree with you. And good luck with the new job.
tonto 1 year, 7 months ago
That must be it. The other states overpay their employees so much that most of them can't qualify for food stamps, medicaid, and section 8 subsidized housing. Missouri knows that its employees don't need all that sissy stuff like food, clothing, and shelter.
States can only cut their budgets and payrolls so much. Then it's time to shove the prisoners and mental patients out the door, turn off the lights, and lock up. Just think - you could be the first one in your neighborhood to rent your spare room to a serial killer.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
People in Jeff City have very low self esteem. They do not believe they deserve to have good pay and security.
tonto 1 year, 7 months ago
The people that are left are locked into their vested retirement. When they retire in droves over the next five years, the state will have some great budget savings and a huge lack of talent.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
Yeah, I am sure that it it. Arkasas, Mississippi, Utah, Nevada, Alabama, Kentucky, West Virginia, New Mexico, Arizona, South Carolina, North Dakota, South Dakota, etc. all overpay their employees too. That is why they are not # 50. Missouri is probably just about perfect because their paying at #50 in the nation while the rest of the states are just overpaying. That is why Missouri is at market level pay. No need for this committee- we already have all the information we need, and everything is just fine.
All the turnover in state government is due to the bad food served at the cafeteria. Employees leave their jobs not because of the pay that is 1/2 what the private sector pays, but because private sector employees work next to McDonalds.
Yeah, you are right. No problem here. Let's go give out some more corporate welfare payments and take more state dollars away from schools, law enforcement, roads, employee benefits, and lay off some more employees while we are at it.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
You apparently have never worked in a business, have supervised employees, or studied basic management principles. Turnover in organizations is very expensive-- and can cost as much as 2-1/2 times the salary of the position being turned over.
Google "turnover costs" and read a few articles and become enlightened.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
Low skill jobs should be automated and eliminated. Technology is cheaper than labor, and is also more accurate and reliable.
State government has little sense of basic industrial-quality engineering principles that can drastically reduce costs and improving quality.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
And the workers in those low skill jobs do what, exactly? Draw welfare? Or perhaps they should just starve or be homeless until they all die off?
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
I don't think it's uneccessary or poor quality - I just dislike the idea of human workers being replaced by machines.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
No, they should be trained to work with the technology and gain some skills. With skills, they can earn more pay and contribute more to the state government to help it operate more efficiently. Of course this would assume that the management changes its way of thinking about its workforce. Management might have to start to respect and value the workforce and see them as assets to be cared for and to be developed.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
That all sounds very good...but I don't see who's paying for the training, how that is saving money, and you still are saying jobs should be eliminated. At this point, many offices - and we're talking office work, not manufacturing that can be more easliy automated, are working with skeleton crews already.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
Job elimination is not a big issue. With the high turnover rates and the number of baby boomers who are going to be retiring over the next 5 years, there will be plenty of people leaving state government employment without having to let them go. The key is to have a higher "quality" of state worker- ones who have the training and the skills and experience to make things better and to adapt to changing conditions. These workers will require higher pay, but they will be worth it because they are doing more valuable work to helping the organization perform better and more efficiently.
Right now state workers do not get the pay and the treatment they deserve because there are so many unskilled and uneducated workers who look like slobs and who spend a lot of time outside smoking all day. Clean up the workforce. Educate them. Empower them. Dress them better. Get rid of the slackers and goobers. Then the jobs will truly become professional as they deserve to be.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
I don't disagree with your statement that more will be leaving the workforce. But I do take exception to your characterization of state employees. I don't know anyone who "spends a lot of time outside smoking all day". As an on again - off again (currently off) smoker, I took exactly three breaks a day - about 10, when I used the bathroom as well as spent 5 minutes outside, lunch, and about 3 - same as the 10 a.m. break. Most smoker's I know take the same type of breaks. That always ticks me off. "Dress them better" - really? Better than who and what building are you looking at? Our division has a dress code. We can't even wear tennis sh-oes! Yes, some do let employees wear jeans, but I seldom see a state employee in Truman or Broadway I'd consider dressed like a slacker or a goober.
The real problem here is that virtually everyone is underpaid. The professionals - attorneys/accountants/etc. are not paid very well either - but not too bad compared to the basic office worker. And every one is underappreciated. If Missouri had the lowest COL in the nation, being dead last in pay wouldn't be so bad; at least understandable.
So why do I stay? For my retirement that I've spent 15+ years building and still need another 5 to get - and the fact is, I LIKE my job - even if I don't like the pay and various carpola that comes with it.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
High employee turnover is a symptom of deeper problems in an organization. It shows they are unhappy with some part of their job, which usually is caused by poor management, poor pay, burnout, or some other job-related problems causing poor office morale. It results in an inefficient and ineffective workplace when new employees are constantly taking up the time of experienced employees for training.
It has nothing to do with freedom, unless you mean the freedom to leave a job you are unhappy with for some reason.
gofish 1 year, 7 months ago
If Kinder will campaign on a legit platform of resolving the pay crisis for state employees and have a REAL plan to address it, Nixon's draconian tenure will be over. I already miss Blunt and Holden and that's pretty sad. And trust me on face value I am not a Kinder supporter. He led the Republican band to cut benefits for senior citizens (his constituency) and simultaneously filed legislation for the state to pay for the contruction of the new busch stadium. Yes Peter, we remember. Here's a golden opportunity to redeem yourself.
TheRickster 1 year, 7 months ago
For Graceful and others that have a low opinion of State employees. I can give one situation from my experience which is similar to many others. I worked for DOR in taxation for over 10 years. Over that time I was trained on many aspects of tax preparation. In the beginning the benefits were an offset with the bad pay. Over a period of time they have wittled away at the benefits to the point that we could purchase insurance from a private company or switch to a spouses' employer. Several years back then and still continue now, the budget gets help balancing on the backs of State employees. When I had enough,,I switched to a private business with a bump in pay with half of the work. The one plus after working at DOR,, I have never been treated that badly again in my life!
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
The state managers are used to having a rather large unskilled workforce. That kind of workforce is not going to produce quality results or be efficient. Management needs to get a clue and work to make the state's operations more responsive, higher quality, and also more automated. Workers need to be empowered to be part of the solution and to help make their jobs better. Treating workers like they are dumb animals or children isn't working too well. And, you have to have a lot of workers if you want dumb slaves who cannot think for themselves or solve their own problems. .
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
And that is the fault of the incompetent management.
yonomo 1 year, 7 months ago
You still don't get it. Sure the state can pay low wages and decide it is fine with that when the turnover rate is high, but that turnover rate costs money as well. The state decides it is fine to lose a hard working, intelligent employee who wanted more money to turn around and hire a person who doesn't want as much money. The majority of the time when someone will work for less it usually points to
A: The state is the biggest employer in the area and people will not/cannot move away for more pay B: The person knows they are not worth much because they are not as intelligent and kind of lazy.
So if the state is lucky enough to find a smart, hard working employee who needs to stay local and willing to work for a very low wage then it works out for them. However, hiring a bunch of option B's will cost the state more in the long run with low productivity, little innovation and no motivation. You can hire less people if a good percentage of your workforce is the intelligent, hard working type. If not you end up hiring more people, paying more wages to do the same work.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
All jobs require motivated emplolyees to perform them correctly and efficiently. However, increasing pay is not a big motivator like most people think. Once a job pays what an employee comes to expect, more pay does not increase motivation. However, low pay is a serious demotivator. If the employee percieves that he is not getting a fair salary, he will be very demotivated to do his work. He will become bored. He may think of ways to make things more interesting, like sabotaging the operation or causing trouble to get attention he percieves that is lacking. The key for good managers is to find that "sweet spot" and set the pay very near it. Too much pay does not motivate emplioyees, and it doesn't make them happy when other structural or environment factors are not right for the job. You got to get those other factors right too.
From what I hear from my spouse, there are many serious problems with state government work. The managers treat employees like children at best. Employees are not valued resources to be developed, but rather easily disposable pawns to be tormented and play games upon.
It sounds to me like state government needs some long range planning, not the ever-changing initiatives du jour. Also, the managers and department directors need some training in how to to their jobs, and they need to be held accountable for their actions toward their employees.
It is a good thing for managers that the employees around here are quite passive and tolerant of all these games, poor treatment, and low pay. State government would never be able to operate this way in St. Louis or Chicago, or Detroit, or anywhere in Ohio or Iowa where the workforce is more educated about its rights and where they will stand up for decent treatment.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
Or the "B" employees just leave for better jobs after they learn the ropes at the low paying state jobs. The state just becomes a huge training organization, and a very inefficient and expensive one at that. Turnover is never a good thing.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
"Turnover can be a great thing when you don't like the people you work with!!"
This is sounds very inmature to me. It also sounds to me you don't mind paying for all the turnover and for all the inefficiencies and low quality work or having to redo things and constantly train new employees. Which is it-- do you want a lean efficient and quality state government, or are you saying that you like the way things are- high costs, low quality, no strategic plan, dissatisfied workers? You seem to speak out of both sides here.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
I was wondering about that too. Sounds to me like she'd fire me because I've been here for 15+ years and as a result am at the top of my pay scale and hire some kid fresh out of school who doesn't have the experience and knowlege I have, but she can pay 1/2 what I earn.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
Older workers cost more for health insurance. They are slower. They take more time to supervise because they grumble, complain, and talk back. If you can get rid of them right before they get vested, you can save a lot of money for the pension plan too. Bsically older workers suck.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
Jeeze, how old are you talking about? I'm just going to pretend you're being sarcastic.
JMO 1 year, 7 months ago
Wow. I'm speechless that anyone would just come out and say you should fire old people because they cost more. May you reap what you sow.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
Not when the productive skilled and knowlegable employees leave, and the deadwood stays.
evenkeel 1 year, 7 months ago
How about this idea? If you are a state worker and you don't like what you are paid you can: 1. find employment elsewhere. 2. develop some job skills and thereby become more valuable so that you can then: a.) try to get promoted within state government or b.) go to #1. 3. take on more responsibility and then: a.) try to get promoted within state government or
b.) go to #1. 4. take the easy way: whine about it, become bitter and wonder why the world is so unfair because it does not comform to your idea of how things ought to work. Go to #4 for the rest of your life.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
I think that is the point. Many are doing #1 and #4, and there aren't many opportunities for #2 or #3 due to budget cuts. We need a 5th option- one that helps the state operate more efficinetly and provide quality services but also saves the tax payer's money and rewards the workers with a market wage. I believe #5 is possible, because I have seen it happen time and time again in industry. All it takes is some smart leadership, real strategic planning, training, empowered employees, and the will to quit playing greedy or political games.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
BS. Ever hear of never-ending improvement? Have you ever read J Edwards Demming? There is tons of waste in state government and many archaic processes. They have only scratched the surface with computerization and utilizing the world wide web.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
The entire quality assurance revolution of the 1980s- 2000 has passed you by. Amazing. You must not have ever lived or worked anywhere else but Jeff City. Google Peter Drucker, J Edwards Deming, Six Sigma, Continuous Improvement, Statistical Process Control, Kaizan, Just-in-time, etc.
Jeeze, this place is so backwards.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
Google "willful ignorance"
tonto 1 year, 7 months ago
Performance management, continuous improvement, whatever you want to call it, can make any type of organization work better. It's about having a management system that requires managers to analyze the cause of errors and remedies those causes. It helps employers get the most and best from their employees and it is especially applicable to low skilled low tech work.
As a simple example - there's a right way to use a shovel and lots of wrong ways. Anything more complicated than ditch digging offers even more opportunity for improvement.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
AMEN, Tonto! I don't think Graceful has ever been out of her little Jeff City office job. Obviously she has no idea regarding the sciences that are applied to improve work processes. The Japanese understood these concepts well-- Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. made huge leaps and bounds in product quality and work effectiveness and nearly killed Detroit.
asb 1 year, 7 months ago
And, ironically, they did it with Demming's tools of continuous improvement, an American who first applied his work to the American automotive industry.
JCLifer 1 year, 7 months ago
i'll bet that GM, Chrysler, and Ford all thought that they were building cars "about as good as they could be built" and they didn't think anything could be improved because they had all the assembly work broken down to very simple, low skill level jobs.
MommaR 1 year, 7 months ago
I don't know why the state workers complain about their pay, there are alot of people out here who make a whole lot less. and work a heck of a lot harder(not slamming workers, but I work in a factory, hot in the summer cold in the winter, physical work) I just got a letter last week about a job opening with the state...it starts out $300 a month more than I make now. I would love a job where I could set down all day, push papers, talk on the phone. I wouldn't complain about the pay or the benefits(better than I have now)
Spankthefed 1 year, 7 months ago
You do a great job of slamming workers for someone "not slamming workers". The treatment by the state of our state workers is disgraceful, completely embarrassing, and it does affect service, and it definately impacts the local economy. We have been told for years now, through GOP and DNC administrations that position cuts would leave opportunity for advancment and pay increases. Except for the hacks in whatever administration is in power, the true workers get nothing, while the phoney baloneys protect their phoney baloney jobs and cushon their retirements. I don't know where you work now, but if a state job pays 300 more, it must be dang near minimum wage and come with all the fries you can eat.
MommaR 1 year, 7 months ago
I said I work in a factory and I make more than minimum wage
evenkeel 1 year, 7 months ago
I am certain that workers who prepare themselves to become more valuable and marketable will be rewarded with better jobs and higher pay once the economy turns around, as long as they are active in seeking better opportunities. Those who complain about tough times, low pay and are passive about self-improvement will be forever mush-mouthing about low pay, whether their pay comes from the state or from the private sector.
muleman 1 year, 7 months ago
The government is like a septic tank, all the big ones float to the top
evenkeel 1 year, 7 months ago
How does slamming MommaR elevate you Spankthefed? If MommaR can get hired at a different job and make $300 more a month, why do you think she needs to have derision directed at her? All that bile is not good for you.
Spankthefed 1 year, 7 months ago
What slam? Pointing out her attack on state employees is a slam? Please. And read her post, she said the state job payed 300 more, if your gonna comment, please read first so you know what you are talking about. And I believe my "bile" was directed at the state, both parties, and the hacks that take up all the money, again, please read first, and have a nice evening.
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