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Today's Poll!Planned Parenthood closing Jefferson City office
About 15 people on Tuesday recite the rosary near the Planned Parenthood office on Southwest Blvd. For the past nine years, a prayer group has held weekly 30-minute gatherings in front of the clinic, which is consolidating with the Columbia office at the end of this month. Photo by Kelley McCall.
Wednesday, November 16, 2011
A group gathered for prayer outside the Jefferson City Planned Parenthood office Tuesday for the last time. After nine years of praying for a change of choice for clients and employees at the family planning office, the group began an eight-week prayer of thanksgiving.
While these pro-life supporters are pleased, others in the community who have depended on the local Planned Parenthood office for services will have to travel to the Columbia office or find a new provider locally.
Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri announced this week that it would consolidate the Jefferson City location with the Columbia office. The consolidation should provide more services to more people, said Michelle Trupiano, Mid-Missouri public affairs manager for Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri.
The Jefferson City clinic, opened in 1975, will continue to be open 10 a.m.-6 p.m. Tuesday and 9 a.m.-5 p.m. Thursday through Nov. 29.
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Comments
shpotter 1 year, 6 months ago
I PRAY EVERYDAY FOR PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THEIR ACTIONS. DO YOU REALIZE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE BY CLOSING THIS FACILITY. YOU HAVE MADE IT HARD OR IMPOSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO GET THE SERVICES THEY NEED WHEN THEY NEED THEM. ABORTION OR BIRTH CONTROL ARE NOT THE ONLY SERVICES PROVIDED. HOW IGNORANT CAN YOU PEOPLE BE. ARE YOU WILLING TO PICK UP THE SLACK FOR THESE PEOPLE. ARE YOU WILLING TO PROVIDE FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES BECAUSE OF YOUR STUPIDITY. I REALLY HOPE YOU OR YOUR FAMILY NEVER NEED THESE SERVICES AND WONDER WHY THEY ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE. KARMA FOLKS KARMA
acbcox 1 year, 6 months ago
This post is very hateful. If pro-life supporters were to post a comment calling the pro-choice community 'ignorant' and claiming their 'stupidity', the comment surely would not remain posted for this amount of time. This comment is not acceptable.
tonto_goldberg 1 year, 6 months ago
This newspaper is known for its conservatism and strong pro-life support. They probably don't feel defensive about allowing strong opposing opinions, unlike some people and groups.
The post makes some statements and asks some questions; are you willing to answer those questions?
Where will people of limited means find family planning and womens' health care services? Where will they find maternal health care? Is there a right-to-life organization that really does this?
Finally, do you have another word for the behavior of a group which plans an eght-week prayer of thanksgiving for the closing of an office that did not provide abortions but is despised because of the name on the sign? I won't use the fightring words, but I will tell you that karma is a long-term thing.
yonomo 1 year, 6 months ago
I read the articles and comments here quite often. Don't post too much though. One thing I do notice is, no matter what the article is about, Gracefuls replies always include "left wing" or "right wing". Really, no offense, but whats your story anyway? Are you convinced everything in this world is a conspiracy of the Dems or Reps? I mean seriously, the story could be about declining deer population in the area and somewhere in your reply would be a reference to the left or right.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Because it is what you do. Everything you comment on is polarized left/right, and the left is an evil force out to destroy America through need for power and godlessness. You describe a relentless conspiracy and agenda of the left and anti-christian forces. Why are you denying what you do every day in these posts.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
Yeah. I think the only one surprised that someone would make such a statement is you, Graceful.
tonto_goldberg 1 year, 6 months ago
I will reference my earlier comment about the News Tribune and its tolerance for dissenting views, and suggest you consider how they are able to do that. A little confidence in the value of your own opinion can reduce your dependence on a group of followers and can eliminate your need to stifle opposing views.
If you need examples of pro-life supporters hurling gratuitous insults and worse at the pro-choice community, you simply haven't been paying attention. Follow the column of posts on this page and you will find several. Look at posts by Graceful and evenkeel to get you started. Some of the lefties give as good as they get, too.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
Services are still available elsewhere. Sure, you might have to pay for them now instead of suckling off someone else. Bottom line: Don't make a baby if you cannot pay for it.
You sound like a real piece of work.
tonto_goldberg 1 year, 6 months ago
Clue for you: Planned Parenthood did not perform abortions there.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
Did I say that PP performed abortions there?
Clue for you: Learn how to read.
tonto_goldberg 1 year, 6 months ago
I was referring to your bottom line comment about making a baby.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
What don't you understand? You cannot afford prenatal services, then you sure cannot afford to feed, clothe, and educate a baby. Don't make one. Life is not that complicated, and you sure don't need someone else to tell you what to do if you use a little common sense.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
I had a secretary once where I worked who got her annual exam and BC pills from PP. We had insruance there, but there was no prescription or birth control coverage at the time. I remember this young, married mother commenting to someone who got pregant with their umpteenth child, who had said she hadn't taken BC pills because of the expense. My secretary said something along the lines of, "I pay $4 per month at PP for birth control pills. I can't feed my child one hot dog a day for that price!"
It's people like her that this will hurt. Women without insurance, who are trying to be responsible and NOT bring children into the world they can't afford to have.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
Don't do the wild thing. BC pills are not an entitlement.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
Riiight. So married couples are just supposed to be celibate. Sure. That's the way to a happy, healthy marriage.
Never mind. Done feeding the troll.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
Yes. Many married people are celibate. If you cannot afford the protections or the consequences, then don't do the action. Just because you are married doesn't mean you get to do it anytime you want and to hell with the consequences. Use your head that God gave you.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
BC means you can. Your God also made that possible. Your prudish advice is horrible and controlling, surprise!
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
If telling the poor they shouldn't have babies isn't controlling then there isn't any such thing. Having babies is pretty much what we're here for. Prenatal care is cheap and clearly needed. You would actually change human nature to fit you moral perspective . . . and that's not controlling?
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Semantics Grace, your failure to control is a result of powerlessness. It doesn't diminish a bit your controlling nature, a characteristic of hte puritanical Right.
yonomo 1 year, 6 months ago
There you go again
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
Have all the babies you want, but don't ask me to pay for it. Take some personal responsibility. Can't afford to take care of a baby? Then don't have one.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
LOL! I SO wanted to say that, but I was too nice. Thanks.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
Then go get a job and buy some BC. Don't expect me to pay for your fun or for your "accidents".
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Pro life supporters have called women who've had abortions murderers in these threads abcox, I don't think pro choice folk have any monopoly on harsh rhetoric. The piece of work calling pre-conception, pre-natal and post-natal services provided to poor women by Planned Parenthood "suckling" has a tiny cold heart and has stepped outside any reasonable definition of Christianity or humanity, but trolling is a gift needing expression now and then and nobody does it better than the Lifer.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
What's wrong with going to a doctor? That is what most people do.
tonto_goldberg 1 year, 6 months ago
Money. Some people don't have much. Planned Parethood had sliding scale fees, and most doctors need to get paid.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
Then they need to get some skills and get a job instead of sitting around making babies. What is so hard with taking a little personal responsibility?
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
The jobs Lifer . . . where are they. There isn't one for each of us. Are you going Darwin on us now? Well obviously you are.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
Classifieds are full of them. Even more on monster.com.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
Okay, I just realized something....on the Strip Club thread you said,
"Conservatives could do so much better in the elections if they would get out of the bedroom. The messages about limited government, fiscal and personal responsibility are quite sound, but they lose so many votes by wildly persecuting gays, attempting to control a couple's reproductive business, and trying to protect people from evil thoughts through ponography and pot.
Hypocrit is a good description. They lose so many elections through their own stupidity. If they would just concentrate on separating religion and government and not imosing their puritanical beliefs regarding these personal freedoms, they would do so much better in elections."
So...Pro: P o r n, Pot, Gays and Strippers - but apparently AGAINST reasonably priced birth control for low-income people?
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
How is that more irrational than projecting and hoping for civil war. A war that the Right almost always loses.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
The left nearly always wins civil wars grace, but we won't have one here, in spite of your fantasy beliefs.
yonomo 1 year, 6 months ago
And again
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
That was directed at Lifer and not intended to start yet another discussion of gay rights.
JCLifer 1 year, 6 months ago
No, against using tax dollars to buy other people BC. Buy your own. No one buys anything for me.
3blindmice 1 year, 6 months ago
you are correct. those dirty hippies protesting should be out working instead of squatting in front of building that supplies jobs and other revenue to jefferson city.
bluesfan13 1 year, 6 months ago
I've often wondered about that myself. Why are all of these "life starts at conception" people not protesting IUD's or homone controls that prevent implantation. How many millions of fertilized eggs (babies) die every month because of that? I know it's exponentially more than the number of abortions performed.
bluesfan13 1 year, 6 months ago
So the form of the killing matters more than the quantity?
Odd. To me it would seem that the more lives that could be saved, the better.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
What about the situation when conception occurs, but the fertilized egg is flushed from the body before implantation in the uterus? This happens naturally and quite frequently. How do you think about that? Do you think this is God killing a baby? If so, should humans try to intervene to stop the destruction of ANY fertilized egg, even if it occurs by a natural process?
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
I mean: if the destruction of a fertilized, non-implanted egg represents the loss of a human person, should humans not intervene to stop it, just as we intervene to stop human death by cancer, traffic accidents, etc.?
yonomo 1 year, 6 months ago
hehehe..........and again.............
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
People pull the plug on relatives in vegitative states too. Your stance seems to indicate that even if medical testing proved the child would be born with no higher mental functions, or with severe defects that would guarantee that there would be no decent quality of life acheivable, or would not survive but a few days/weeks/ etc., or if the Mother would have little chance of surviving the pregnancy, abortion would still be murder.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
So killing is not always murder? It's okay some of the time, but not others? Who exactly gets to decide that in your opinion?
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
The legal sense is the only definition of murder. You are referring to killing. Abortion is killing a potential being and is only murder if the law says so. Every shed egg is killed. Every sperm not fertilizing an egg is killed. In a few more years the ability to make viable humans from adult stem cells, and eventually many other adult cells, will mean that every every shed or lost cell could be considered killed. Absolute terms in a complex issue are wasted. You are wrong.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
I don't know that I agree with that, Lige. I was raised Lutheran. We kind of considered outselves "Catholic-Lite".
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Sorry Grace, that's biology. Each egg and sperm is the product of four billion+ years of continous life, and killing them is the end of that line, period.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
No Grace, my facts are axiomatic science. You've made it abundantly clear that science you don't like is wrong and made up by devious godless forces out to destroy America, but the real world is populated by countless billions of lines of life.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Therre's no ideology in the lineage of germ lines Grace, it's just how reproduction works. How is an egg not a continuation of all the lives that came before it? I call science the process known by that name, with no personal ideology, faith or superstition involved. I do have a skeptical mind, which is why I rely on facts rather than superstition or just faith. You are a dupe of the Right.
3blindmice 1 year, 6 months ago
I have a idea. instead of being a dirty hippy protesting in jefferson city why don't you go to kansas city and protest Bishop Robert Finn.
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
asb, a used condom is not human life. Are you saying it is? Are you claiming someone else is saying it is? Get a grip.
What is your "nuanced" view to terminating innocent human life? My view is not nuanced at all. I hate abortion. Abortion is evil. Absolutely.
Please visit vitaefoundation.org. It is a very moving website. Stay at the home page until you get to the picture with the caption "She rests blissfully because we didn't." Then go take a walk. Do it for you. I swear it will make you a better person and make your day a better day.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
The use of words like innocent, hate, and evil, don't really help your position much. As far as the Vitae Foundation's web site, I've been there before and I went again at your request. Very sappy and mis-leading portrait of what this is all about. We can start or stop human life the church approved animal way, the test tube way, through cloning, and - in a few years - using nearly any pluripotent human cell or combination of cells. The nuance in my view of abortion lies in timing. Post-birth killing of babies is presently outlawed and considered murder in the west. But not always, and not everywhere even today. Late-term abortion is generally not accepted, and I am opposed to it on the basis of the obvious suffering. early term is widely accepted, and I support it. Post conception birth control is widely accepted. Pre-conception birth control, whether chemical, physical or through abstinance, is preferred. Where's your line drawn? Oh, and regarding the used condom; there's enough genetic information in a recently used condom to make thousands of unique and distinct people, male and female, even of different races. You and I won't likely live long enough to see the procedures in use, but yes, throwing away a condom (please) is killing thousands of potential humans.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
I don't know why everyone keeps going on about abortion in this thread. This PP office did not perform abortions. They offered birth control, family planning and reproductive health and medical services. Their moving did nothing at all to stop abortions. It only made it harder for low-income women and families to get other types of care.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
A fetus isn't a human being. Planned Parenthood staff don't get jollies from helping women plan their families, and your narrow superstitious view of life begining at conception instead of the reality that it started billions of years ago oversimplifies the issue, which suits your argument but doesn't really address the issue of womens' and infants' health.
yonomo 1 year, 6 months ago
The left likes to look left, sleep left, drink left, read left, turn left, drive left, walk left, jump left, point left..........and even eat leftovers.............
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
JMO, PP is the largest provider of abortions in the U.S.. PP is loathsome. The fact that PP does other things besides provide abortions does not make PP any less loathsome.
This isn't difficult. I hear that Jerry Sandusky is kind to dogs. Does that make him less evil?
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Not enough to avoid the prison showers. There you go with your absolutes. PP is loathsome to you because you think any association with abortion is loathsome. Millions disagree with that.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Not.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
Evenkeel and Grace, That is your OPINION, and you are entitled to it. But it does NOT change the fact that it is a legal medical procedure that many people do not find to be immoral, much less evil. And it certainly doesn't change the fact that THIS office did not do it. Therefore, closing and moving THIS office did absolutely nothing to halt the action you find offensive. All it did was make it more difficult for low-income women and families from getting the non-abortion services they provided.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
It is a fact that it is legal. As to immoral, that is your opinion. It is not everyones.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Supporting legal abortion is not immoral.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
So the biscuit does have a crux after all. Graceful can see the validity of some abortions. EvenKeel says abortion is evil, absolutely. A wedge appears between Graceful and Evenkeel. The question becomes one of where to draw the line. A dead mom and a live baby vs. a live mom and a dead baby. Boy howdy that's a nasty quandry. A hundred years ago they'd both die. Today one lives. Tomorrow each of us can plant the seeds of our children, thin the early crop, pick and raise the final fruit and turn the rest back to dust or food, all without a spouse or with many. See how the advances in our civilization make life more complex, and morallity more difficult to define.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
Morality isn't difficult to define? Then answer this: Say a pregnant woman (say, a wife and mother to three living children) is facing a complicated pregnancy. Due to the medical complications, the doctors give her a choice: the mother can abort the pregnancy and survive, or carry the pregnancy to term, deliver the baby, but lose her own life. Considering the mother's responsibility to herself, her husband, her living children, and her unborn child, what is the "moral" decision? Is one decision "moral" and the other "immoral?" Are both actions immoral, but one is less immoral than the other? Are there gradients of morality, or is every decision we ever make simply moral or immoral, one or the other? Graceful seems to suggest there is one clear, correct answer. Let's hear it.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
This is fascinating. Why is the life of a fetus, whose face no one has ever seen, more valuable than the life of the mother?
Suppose that mother in the hypothesis is your daughter. She says, "Graceful, you're the most moral person I know. Tell me what is right, and I will do it." Your son-in-law and your grandchildren look at you and wait for your answer.
You'd really tell her that she must die so the fetus may live? Tell the husband and children that it is right that they lose a wife and mother? What about their suffering? What about the mother's right to life? What about the newly-born baby that must now grow up in these circumstances? You're absolutely sure it is right that this mother must die?
I'm not trying to be argumentative. I would love to hear you explain how you arrive at your "right answer."
Here's how I think this out: To me, the moral action is the action that minimizes suffering. In my view, human "life" and "personhood" is more than just cells and DNA. It is the soul, or the spirit. Life is the relationships we have... who loves us and who we love. A person's life is what gets ripped out of the hearts of her friends and family when she dies. Life is much, much more than just the physical materials of a body. By this measure, more "life" is lost with the death of the mother than with the death of the fetus. The death of the fetus, while not without suffering, causes less suffering than the death of the mother. So, I think it is more moral for the fetus to die and the mother to live.
That's my moral reasoning. What is yours?
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
JMO and asb, thank you so very much for allowing me to have an opinion. Now I will express it. I shed no tears for this loathsome abortion provider leaving town and I am unapologetic that I loath an abortion provider like PP . I look forward to celebrating their eventual demise. Why do you rally for this organization? It is as twisted as rallying for Jerry Sandusky.
Do you like the killing of innocent life? If you don't, how do you show that you don't? Oh, let me guess, the answers to these last 2 questions is no and no. You're not really on the side of angels are you?
Gosh, millions disagree with me. Oooh. I am not cowed by that. Let's conceed that the fact that millions disagree with me is a really weak argument and leave it at that.
Why not rally in support of carrying babies to term? Have you ever done that? Why not promote Birthrite? They say they are non-moralistic and non-judgmental.
Gee, that is 2/3 s of the holy trinity of liberalism, isn't it? Do you have a better angel in your character? How do you express it? You are a survivor. What do you have against these little ones joining us? I don't get it.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
First, I have said nothing to disparage or attack you for your opinion. It's a pity you are not a good enough person to do the same for those with whom you differ. But instead you call me twisted and imply that I am evil simply because we differ on this issue. How very Christian of you. Not.
We disagree on the definition of "life". It is my opinion that a fetus is not a separate "life" from the woman until they are capable of surviving outside the womb. I do support first trimester abortion. I don't personally think it should be used as a method of birth control, but I would leave that to a woman's conscience. I would support second trimester abortion in only very limited circumstances, such as I outlined in my question to Graceful. You're getting very close to a viable fetus in the latter second trimester. I do not support late-term abortion unless it is absolutely medically necessary.
I believe that programs that help women with unwanted pregnancies get medical care and find adoptive parents are a wonderful thing. I think more people should take advantage of them than probably do. But I don't believe that I have the right to force ALL women to make that choice. I think that victims of rape or incest should absolutely have the right to terminate their pregnancy if they wish in the first trimester.
I do not "rally" in support of either position. I do not "promote" either side. I believe it is a matter of conscience and I am not the judge and jury of every woman on earth.
I know you don’t get it. You don’t have to. My personal opinion is as valid as yours and I am entitled to it as well.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
Well, I did go there and went so far as to give you my definition. It differs from yours. I don't think this is a matter of what I want when I want it, I think it's a matter for every person's individual conscience.
No one ever changed anyone's mind on a message board and I don't expect to change anyones. My views are my own. I don't insist other's agree with me. I would hope that the world is big enough for all opinions to be heard, even if you disagree with them, and that we can all agree to disagree. I didn't step into this thread to try to take a side. It isn't an issue I take sides on, except to disagree with people trying to force other people to do their bidding. I don't believe a woman should be forced into an abortion, even to save her own life, if she doesn't want that. That's why the stance is called proCHOICE, not proabortion. Equally, I don't believe a woman should be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.
I kind of got drawn in to the discussion, and frankly, I never wanted to. I really, truly, only came on here to point out that this particular office didn't perform abortions and therefore it's closure did nothing on that front either way. That being said, I can't imagine at this moment anything else to say on the subject.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
I have given it a great deal of thought. I think my definition, viability, makes more sense and shows as much if not more thought as a simple "sperm + egg = life" reguritation you keep making over and over again. Frankly, I don't care what you think of my definition, my beliefs or my morals. In the list of people in this world who's opinion of me I might care about, you don't make the top 7 billion. I have no intention of defending my beliefs any further. I don't have to. They belong only to me. Everyone else is free to have their own.
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
I didn't say I didn't want to defend my beliefs. I have done so to the extent I deem necessary and my position has been made perfectly clear. You just don't like my answers and can't let it go. I notice is that YOU have yet to directly answer several questions directed to YOUR beliefs. You can't possibly have missed the questions. Are you simply refusing to answer?
JMO 1 year, 6 months ago
Oh please. You are choosing to ignore a number of reasonable and quite serious questions.
You've said all abortion was murder. Then you said if the mother's life was in danger, it would not be murder. Then you said it was still immoral. Care to explain the inconsistacy there? It's still killing and sill immoral, but not murder. I'd like to know how in your ideology you reconcile that.
You've been asked numerous times what you think the "appropriate" punishment would be for a rape or incest victim who chose to illegally terminate a pregancy. (Since you would have them all be illegal.)
Now Sequoia has asked a very serious question above about what if the person who would die would be your own child. I'd prefer that be answered under his question, since it's worded quite well I think.
None of those questions are ridiculous. You think people should "defend" their positions. Defend away! I, at least, won't ridicule you for your opinion...even if I've not been given the same courtesy.
Sequoia 1 year, 6 months ago
Evenkeel, you wrote: "...as rallying for Jerry Sandusky."
So, is "Jerry Sandusky" now like the new "Hitler," the latest greatest monster whose name we casually throw around on some small-town newspaper comment section? Is that a thing we're doing now? Good Lord, people.
I think the thoughtless tossing out of these names to make some political point seriously disrespects the spirits of people who actually died in the Holocaust, and seriously disrespects the evil that those boys went through at that guy's hands, and all the evil that will follow (because a child who has been abused is much more likely to become an abuser himself, the evil he set in motion could last forever).
I don't care what "side" the target is: Unless the topic of conversation is the murder of millions or child abuse, tossing those names around is wrong.
evenkeel 1 year, 6 months ago
A guy pushes an old woman out of the way of a bus and saves her life.
Another guy deliberately pushes an old woman into the path of a bus and she is killed.
The liberal moral to the story: there is no moral difference between these two people, they both are guilty of pushing women around. That is the moral relativism of liberalism.
Choose life.
bluesfan13 1 year, 6 months ago
No, if anything that 'morality' is more related to what you propose on many threads. In your opinion on most topics, it's the act of doing that's more important than the end result.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Keel, the bus thing and your drawn conclusion are just to weird for words.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
Yesterday Gracefull made the point that DNA proves that an embryo is a separate life. I'd like to thank you for a brief moment of rational discussion, then split a semantic hair or two. The combining of parent DNA into an embryo's DNA creates a potentially distinct life, but not a separate one, nor a new one, nor is it the only path to a possible new person - until it's viable it's not separate. Identical twins are created AFTER conception, and are distinct from each other only then. I've mentioned (brutally to some apparent disgust) a very near future when conception in the traditional sense isn't even required Such a process does not require more than one person to contribute unique gametes, or can use gametes from many parents; and can result in many viable offspring. Another complication to consider is the number of changes an embryo’s DNA goes through during and after development. The embryo called Billy can become Sally. Traditional human embryos usually trace their uniqueness, but not their life, to fertilization. Ending any of these usual, or rare, or future pathways is killing and abortion. I believe an early end to a mindless, soulless, pain free, and parasitic embryo is defensible in many cases and should be a woman's choice. I don’t think it will ever again be called murder in America. And another consideration . . . when we raise billions of animals in horrific conditions of pain and suffering, slaughter and eat them with no nutritional need to (myself included), then early term abortion seems to be more on a continuum of choice. Yes, we're better than cows, and closer to any version of God I’ve ever heard of than any other animal, but what we do to them for no good reason could fairly be seen as only slightly less murder than abortion.
asb 1 year, 6 months ago
By separate I don't mean viable, even though that's what I posted. As you sort of state above, viability is an arbitrarily drawn line, and moves closer to conception with each pre-natal advance and skills at supporting earlier and earlier births are learned. By separate I mean compared to both parents. The embryo can go through significant changes after conception regarding which parental genetics it will settle on as it develops. BTW, conception isn't spontaneous, it takes time. And when an embryo is built from meiotic products of from one to many parent gametes, it may take days. The concept of conception will blur. I realize what we're moving toward in biology (hardly a prediction since it's already happening) can seem disgusting and unholy, but your future often seems monsterous to me.
cmnsense 1 year, 6 months ago
Why are all these comments about abortion, when no abortions were ever performed at this clinic?
wcywing 1 year, 6 months ago
people get emotional, they post whatever they want despite the facts. they equate planned parenthood=abortion.
tonto_goldberg 1 year, 6 months ago
The truth is something entirely different, but you are proving wcywing's point rather easily.
Mr_Grimm 1 year, 6 months ago
Personally, if Low income people want abortions, I volunteer my tax dollars for it! I sick of paying for other peoples kids to get free C**P off my back. Give free birth control and abortions and cut out welfare. I think it needs to be optional in the first place, just like organ donation.
wcywing 1 year, 6 months ago
most women that get abortions are well to do, thats that don't usually can not afford it.
cmnsense 1 year, 6 months ago
The sad truth is, some women do not deserve children. Case in point: Shelby Dasher. She beat little Tyler to death because he "wouldn't lay back down", and left his little body by a cemetery. Can you imagine what must've been going through his mind while being beaten by his mother, whom he had come to know and love? If she was going to kill him, why didn't she just do it before he discovered that he loved cookies, or playing in the bathtub? Before he had a chance to feel the funny fur of a puppy or kitty? Do you think he wondered why Mommy was always looking at him with hateful resentment? When do you think he would've suffered more? Before he was born, or after? Yes, she is a selfish and cruel person. Wouldn't it have been better if she had PLANNED to have a child? That is what Planned Parenthood is about. They NEED to offer those services, because any woman even considering an abortion does not DESERVE that child.
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