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Today's Poll!Gays see repeal as a civil rights milestone
Sunday, December 19, 2010
NEW YORK (AP) — Allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the U.S. military is a step toward equality, advocates say, but a fight for other social changes such as gay marriage still lies ahead.
The Senate voted Saturday to end the 17-year ban on openly gay troops, overturning the Clinton-era policy known as “don’t ask, don’t tell.”
“It’s one step in a very long process of becoming an equal rights citizen,” said Warren Arbury of Savannah, Ga., who served in the Army for seven years, including three combat tours, before being kicked out two years ago under the policy. He said he planned to re-enlist once the policy is abolished.
“Even though this is really huge, I look at it as a chink in a very, very long chain,” he added.
Supporters declared the vote a civil rights milestone.
Aaron Belkin, director of the California-based Palm Center — a think tank on the issue — said the vote “ushers in a new era in which the largest employer in the United States treats gays and lesbians like human beings.”
For thousands of years, he said, one of the key markers for first-class citizenship in any nation is the right to serve in the military, and Saturday’s vote “is a historic step toward that.”
Repeal means that for the first time in U.S. history, gays will be openly accepted by the military and can acknowledge their sexual orientation without fear of being discharged. More than 13,500 service members have been dismissed under the 1993 law. Before that, they had been explicitly barred from military service since World War I.
The change won’t take immediate effect, however. The legislation says the president and his top military advisers must certify that lifting the ban won’t hurt troops’ fighting ability. After that, there’s a 60-day waiting period for the military.
Some supporters of the repeal traveled to Washington to witness the vote, including Sue Fulton, a former Army captain and company commander who is spokeswoman for Knights Out, a group of 92 gay and lesbian West Point graduates who are out and no longer serving.
Driving home to North Plainfield, N.J., the 51-year-old Fortune 500 executive said she thinks the repeal will have an effect on the civil rights of gays in America.
“As more people realize that gay and lesbian citizens are risking their lives to defend this country, perhaps they’ll be more willing to acknowledge gays and lesbians as full citizens in other ways,” she said.
Conservative organizations said the vote didn’t reflect the sentiments of rank-and-file military members and should not have taken place so close to the end of the current session of Congress.
“The issue that really disturbs me more than anything else is that legislation that’s controversial tends to be done in lame-duck sessions when a number of the elected representatives are no longer accountable to the people,” said Len Deo, president of the New Jersey Family Policy Council.
In New York, home to one of the nation’s largest gay communities and a gay pride parade whose grand marshal this year was an openly gay, discharged serviceman, 28-year-old Cassandra Melnikow glanced at a news ticker in Times Square announcing the repeal and said: “Excellent! It’s about time.”
“I don’t see what difference (sexual orientation) makes in the fighting military,” said Melnikow, a public health researcher. “What’s the big deal?”
———
Associated Press writers Russ Bynum in Savannah, Ga., Jay Lindsay in Boston, Geoff Mulvihill in Trenton, N.J., Sudhin Thanawala in San Francisco and Stan Lehman in Sao Paulo contributed to this report.
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Comments
Rocksham 2 years, 5 months ago
The number of "friendly fire" mishaps may go up. But, that is understandable.
xhepera 2 years, 5 months ago
To imply that violence be instigated against any innocent person, especially the men and women who defend our country, is disgusting. In this case it's also un-American.
pdiddle53 2 years, 5 months ago
Joe, one cannot infer something from what he himself says. He can imply, but not infer.
As for the Senate decision, once again our "betters" have taken a course of action contrary to the advice of experts in the field.
Everyone's opinion counts except those that this action harms most. But at least those who voted in the affirmative will feel good about themselves tonight. And that is really what's important after all right?
Politicians, is there anything they don't know? s/
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
Not happy with congress allowing openly gay in the military its gonna be a huge problem and unfair to the straight people. Putting gay men with the straight men in the showers is like putting me in the showers with a group of attractive women.
misshoneybee 2 years, 5 months ago
Just because gay soldiers shower in a community shower with straight soldiers doesn't mean that the gay men go into 'heat' and want to sex all the straight ones. It doesn't happen that way. Besides, they shower together NOW.
To all those homophobic men, here's an FYI for ya'--Just because a gay man may happen to glance your way doesn't meant that he goes into 'automatic pilot' and wants to 'mount' you.
I would be willing to bet that many straight men have no idea how many gay men are up close and in their presence EVERYDAY. Not every gay man is some big ol' flaming queen. THAT, my friends, is a Hollywood stereotype! Some are over-the-top, flamboyent queens, but MOST are NOT! Gay men are the other 'invisible man'. They are there, but you just don't know it!
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
Its still not fair to the straight man in my opinion. Why not just have one big group shower now with men and women together. Its no different then having gays with you. I have no issues with them just don't think its fair or right.
misshoneybee 2 years, 5 months ago
I am SHOCKED, usmc. I can NOT believe you feel this way. But you have a right to feel anyway you want.
xhepera 2 years, 5 months ago
misshoneybee, you are spot on! And have you also noticed that the most vocally homophobic types, with their "they'd better not be lookin' at or touchin' me" rants, are most often the ones that no self-respecting gay man would touch with a ten-foot pole, much less go after?
One of the problems is that they make the mistake of assuming that gay men will be the same type of "dawg" with them as they, themselves, are with women. I also find it noteworthy that they never mention women. Of course, "straight" men LIKE lesbians.
bluesfan13 2 years, 5 months ago
---"Putting gay men with the straight men in the showers is like putting me in the showers with a group of attractive women."
Are you implying that all gay men find all military men attractive?
Are you afraid the gayness is going to rub off on you? Is it contagious?
Do you have the same problem with gay men in the showers at the gym? Maybe gays shouldn't be allowed to join healthclubs because they'd get to shower with the straight men?
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
MISSOURI Bond (R), No; McCaskill (D), Yes.
Rocksham 2 years, 5 months ago
I was not inferring nor implying. Just bringing to light a probable reaction. Gays and straights shower together in prison, why not in the service? However, some prisoners chose to shower only with their respective group.
asb 2 years, 5 months ago
Bond's was a moralist predictable super-Christian vote; McCaskill voted with the Pentagon's preference, developed through a tremendous amount of study and survey of the people most impacted, the line soldiers and their immediate commanders.
asb 2 years, 5 months ago
Spot on there Grace, Bond voted the Right way and Claire voted the correct way. Of course "Kitten" Bond would absolutely have to vote homophobic.
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
Clairs on her way out anyways.
xhepera 2 years, 5 months ago
Correct, asb. The Left has no lock on attitudes of "political correctness." Bond voted the politically correct way for the Right.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
Wrong would be treating people like second class citizens due to the way they're born. Especially ones fighting for you while you post on an online newspaper all day every day.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
"It is not treating them different based on "the way they are born." It is behavior. People can control behavior."
So science (not to mention common sense and the fact that the entire history of humanity has had gay people) is wrong but...you are right? OK whatever you say. Sigh.
"As for fighting for me, they aren't. They are fighting for an ever growing government that wants to tell its citizens how to live every second of their lives. "
Oh but they are, unless you don't live here. Like it or not, they're fighting for your right to voice these opinions, and voice them you do. And you are the only person I've seen advocating the legislation of your morality and trying to tell people how to live their lives.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
"I don't know what "science" you are referring too "
That doesn't surprise me. I could cite 1000 sources here, I found 5 scientific studies in two minutes on google, but your mind is made up regardless of what is actually true.
"Common sense, which the left is incapable of recognizing, and experience establishes that such behavior can be controlled "
Who said I was left of anything? I didn't bring up your political party at all. I'd hesitate to call bigotry a right wing quality.
Common sense would tell you that the majority these people, if they could choose, would choose not to be talked down to and discriminated against by bigots. Why would such a large percentage of the population choose persecution?
Behavior can be controlled? You're letting your true colors shine through here. If they don't want to 'control' it and exercise god given freedom? You want the State to come in and tell them what is allowed in their bedroom? Scary stuff. By the way: even if they decided to 'control their behavior' (which you liken to a disease like alcoholism, disgusting), straight people can choose to be abstinate too, it doesn't make them any less straight.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
My my Central Missouri is certainly filled with people who are scared to death of gay people! The level of hatred around here toward anyone different or who has a different opinion is astonishing! I cannot believe how bad this place is, and it is 2010, not 1950.
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
Things was ALOT better in 1950s. I'd give anything to live back then. Look at all the statistics. People was happier and got along. Nothing like today. Wars everywhere. Crime all over the place. Its a sad life we are living today. We are doing it to ourselves sadley.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
You must be a white male and from a blessed family.
The '50s were nice for the Cleavers (well, Mr. Cleaver anyway). They were not very nice for most of the other people.
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
I am a white male age 29 from a very poor family. Stll poor but I work and have a roof and food so I am happy.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
Well as long as you are happy feel free to discriminate against anyone not just like you. That seems to be what certain people feel is the American way these days. It's certainly the way things were in the '50s, when things "was a ALOT better".
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
I agree Graceful, it is a good thing to condemn bad behavior, like bigotry and prejudice. That's why the US government did away with DADT. A majority of them realized it was the right thing to do. People used to 'know' blacks were inferior to whites. People used to 'know' that women weren't smart enough to vote. Now people like you 'know' that gay people just choose to be gay and could be normal if they wanted to so they shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else. The bigots of the past were wrong. You are wrong too.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
You're losing your touch. I haven't seen anyone condemn conservatives. I have seen condemnation of bigotry and prejudicial statements, and I applaud the posters who did that. Again, hatred, bigotry and fear are not necessarily conservative traits. Funny you keep confusing that point. And what is more immoral, falling in love with someone of the same sex or hating the two in love because they're the same sex? You and I have very different ideas of what 'immoral' means, Byron.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
"I know of no one that hates anyone that loves someone of the same sex."
Believe it or not, but there are homosexual haters too. Just because you are gay does not mean you do not hate.
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
It was a better quality of life. Didn't have half the problems we have now. All the illegal or no called displaced people. Not all the worries with aids or beeing mugged. Could let your children run around free and enjoy xmas and halloween with out worry of pedifiles or offending someones religion. I don't agree with ow different races and women was treated but its was stil a better time. We didnt have a welfare problem people worked and took care of themselves not depend on the government asking for a handout.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
We had the problems we have now. Believe it or not, there were illegals, there were muggings, there were pedophiles. Not to mention the Civil Rights atrocities going on all over the country at the time. We didn't have the internet or 24 hour news channels to shove reality in your face all the time. We had highly censored tv tailored to not upset anyone white. It doesn't mean things were better, it just means the populace was less informed. I can understand how that would hold an appeal for some people.
Besides, you're 29. You weren't even alive in the 50's.
jeffcitygirl 2 years, 5 months ago
I love it!! Great post Joe! The good ole days had their share of problems, as well as society forcing their socially acceptable ways on people so that they never got to be themselves, to never find out who they were and live happy lives. They lived for what other people thought, doing the "socially accepted" thing instead of discovering and exploring their true selves. This type of pressure to conform leads to severe repression and frustration, depression and suicide. Live and let live as long as no one is harming each other, who cares what people do with their personal journey in life? I agree, the thought of going back to those days makes me shudder, I feel lucky to be an adult in today's world. One where being an individual and finding your own happiness in life are celebrated and encouraged. Life is short and you should enjoy it and live it the way YOU want to, not teh way some majority social group has determined it "should" be.
xhepera 2 years, 5 months ago
I'm black and was growing up in the 50s. As for my age, let's just say I'm pushin' 60. It was really cool to not get served at lunch counters, and having to go around to back door in the alley of the Woolworth's to get served a hot dog was a special treat. Never seeing a person that looked like me on television other than as an object of caricature was pretty cool too. One of the best parts of it all was having to race home from certain neighborhoods before dark so we wouldn't get lynched! Good times, good times.
misshoneybee 2 years, 5 months ago
It is also astonishing how much the right hates those that disagree with them about gays in the military.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
It is astonishing there are people that promote exclusion and discrimination against others who are born differently than they are. A sure sign that this country is nearing its end.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
Previously, gay servicemen and women in our armed forces had to lie about it or be punished by being discharged. By being fired from a career they may have spent years cultivating. The repeal of DADT ends that. That's all. If you are against this repeal, you are saying gay people should not be allowed to serve but straight people should. That is the very definition of discrimination, that is the very definition of exclusion. You cannot have it both ways. You can't be against gay rights in every story of this type I've ever seen you comment on and then say you haven't discriminated against anyone. Well, you can and you do, but anyone can see it's not true.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
I know that's not what you SAID. But that is the underlying truth of your position. And I explained why. That was the point of my last post. You're trying to advocate for one thing yet say the opposite and I'm calling you out on it. If you have an argument that refutes that, please feel free. But just saying 'nuh-uh' doesn't cut the mustard.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
How about a law preventing bigots from serving in the military?
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
What bar exactly is that? And no there was gays in all branches. You could spot them. They just wasn't openly gay and it worked out fine. We always wondered and suspected but never asked or said anything to them. We just left it alone. There will be alot of problems. Many you all will never know because it will never be known to the public. I am just happy I won't be around it. I could careless what one choses to do but as long as it doesn't involve me, I talk to my buddies still in and they say the most of the members hate the new policy.
xhepera 2 years, 5 months ago
So if you could spot them and knew who they were back then, what's REALLY bothering you now is that they now have the temerity to be honest about themselves. Kinda like how some got upset in the 50s and 60s about blacks daring to speak up for voting rights, etc. Wow. Really dude? And as for your "buddies," well, like attracts like. The polling data from the Pentagon that I went over seems to say the opposite. Of course, I'm sure that you can find some polling data to refute that.
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
you have obviously never served.
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
how would you feel taking a shower with many men that you had no interest in but they all starred at you the whole time. its the same as having to shower with a gay person right.
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
I dont belive there is an honest politician.
misshoneybee 2 years, 5 months ago
I don't know how you can say that there were no gays in all branches, usmc, because the DRAFT didn't discriminate when it mailed out it's lovely 'let's-go-to-war' invitations. The DRAFT took ALL colors. If you were drafted, you didn't have a choice. Gay or straight, black, white, red, or yellow, you went where Uncle Sam told you to go. Trust and believe, there WERE gays in the military then, just as there are now. And if you could spot gays then, you ought to be able to spot them now. But you can't. And that's where the fear factor comes in. But, it is what it is.
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
I never said there wasn't they just wasn't flamboyant. Now it will change things becuase they wont keep there mouths shut. I hope you will someday be forced to shower with 30 males and I am pretty sure your a female and let them all oogle of you. and make you fell uncomfortable.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
Here's the "They better stay away from me" talk now.
pdiddle53 2 years, 5 months ago
Nothing like a good unneccessary controversy ginned up by know-nothing leftists to increase the morale and esprit de corps of our troops. Gays should be entitled to all the rights of heteros, but serving in the military is not a right. The military leaders made the call. DADT was the direction they chose, and then know-nothing, nanny-state, bed-wetting libs decided that was not good enough.
Leftists hate the military and this was their way of sticking it to them as they get ushered out of leadership.
As for all the leftist on this board, you are hilarious when you lose. But we now know you are dangerous when you win. Get used to your "schellackings" (quoting the Zero). Your weird and dangerous ideas are what put you in the minority.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
Sorry to disappoint you, but I am a quite conservative-leaning Christian. However, I also recognize the role of Science in this world as well. Furthermore, I have a lot of faults, but hating others just because they were born different than me is not one of them.
jeffcitygirl 2 years, 5 months ago
JCLIfer, we finally agree on a topic. I respect your way of thinking on this and applaud you for standing up for what's right!
pdiddle53 2 years, 5 months ago
I'll give you two bits if you can point to one sentence in my post indicating I hate anyone. Please take time to carefully read my post before spouting from a position of ignorance or indifference to the actual text. That said, I do admit that I hate the ideas and outcomes of leftists....they are dangerous. And please look at the board and tell me who has been called terrible names like "hater" and "homophobe". But I guess that is OK so long as they agree with your world view. I'll give you another two bits if you can tell me how the name callers aren't hypocrites.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
Sorry to disappoint you, but I am a quite conservative-leaning Christian. However, I also recognize the role of Science in this world as well. Furthermore, I have a lot of faults, but FEARING others just because they were born different than me is not one of them.
BETTER?
pdiddle53 2 years, 5 months ago
Actually not better...you once again called me a "homophobe"...a phobia is a fear genius.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
Help me understand your position. How do you feel toward gays?
online_editor 2 years, 5 months ago
General reminder: Please remember to focus discussion on the issues, rather than personal insults and accusations. Thank you. --Rick Brown, online editor, News Tribune
mamaj01 2 years, 5 months ago
i completely agree! it shouldnt matter when they are fighting for our country, lives and freedom who or what they are. leave your personal opinions out, and be happy they are willing to fight for this country. most of you that arent "open" to the idea, i really hope if you are in the military, the "gay" person doesnt look away from you, if you need help!! everyone should be happy we still have people willing to serve...there are all walks of life in the military, should we weed everyone out who we dont like? NO
doaskdotell 2 years, 5 months ago
I'm glad to see some moderate comments here but most of these posts remind me why I moved away from Central Missouri years ago and have never looked back. The first post in this list of comments says it all about why gay persons still cannot live full and safe lives in mid-missouri.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
Obviously you don't even talk to gays or even have any as friends.
herewego 2 years, 5 months ago
Whew, this is a interesting debate. One thing most of you have forgotten, or you flunked Biology in High School. It takes a Man and a Woman to procreate. Gays (of either sex) can not do that. They can only adopt, heaven forbid, from a straight couple Think about it, when the gays take over, it is the end of civilization, NO CHILDREN. Big Bang theory, or God instilled, it still takes two from different sex for natural procreation.
They can't make it on their own without help from straight people. Go figure.
And for doaskdotgell, so why did you move away, and still keep your nose in central MO business. You must have moved North.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
WTH? We are talking about killing and blowing people up. What does procreating have to do with war?
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
"No, only one person was talking about "killing and blowing people up."
The article we're commenting on is about the abolition of a military policy that discriminates against gay people. Unless you think the purpose of the military is human procreation, herewego's post has nothing to do with the policy, the story or any of the posts. I'm not sure what he/she was getting at, to tell the truth, other than 'gay = "THE END OF CIVILIZATION". lol
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
LOL! "When the gays take over"? Isn't that pretty much what the KKK says about black people? Everyone that says gay rights isn't a civil rights issue pay close attention to the attitudes of certain people posting on this site. The very first comment referenced the 'understandable' shooting gay people, another poster likens being gay to a disease like being an alcoholic and suggests that they just abstain from having a love life altogether or be immoral, and now gay people are apparently out to take over the world. All arguments born of fear, ignorance, and bigotry. These are not qualities upon which to base federal laws or policies. The Declaration of Independence includes all citizens of this country, regardless of color, race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation, when it says:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
Excellent post Nunya.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
... and left-handers live shorter lives than right-handers..
Perhaps being gay leads to much more stress in this hateful world and the stress is what causes shorter lives.
Bottom line: Why all the hatred of gays? They are human beings with the exact same value to God as you, me, and any other human being.
If you are going to hate gays, you might as well hate left-handed people and people with brown eyes.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
"Obviously some of the results of the behavior which include a much higher rate of promiscuity."
WHAT??? Where do you get this stuff? Do you even have a clue?
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
Statistically men live shorter lives than women. The activities of being a man are obviously harmful and therefore immoral. Maybe we should ban men from the military, eh, Graceful? Is that your argument? Because I fail to see the validity. And yes. If treating people equally under the law is 'radical individualism' sign me up.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
Your logic above states that people who live statistically shorter lives = obvious 'immoral' behavior by these people = it being ok to bar them from serving in the military. Statistically men lead shorter lives than women, so by your logic men should not be allowed to serve in the military. Do you agree with that? Or are you prejudice against gay people? I'm just asking. I'm sure you'll answer with another non sequitor, but God help me I'm interested in how you will try to explain this away.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
"Today gays are being treated equally in most aspects of this country. That they aren't is simply an untruth."
You have no idea what being gay is like! If you did, you would not make ignorant statements like this. Gays cannot even marry the person that they love- a very basic right granted to heteros.
nunyabidness 2 years, 5 months ago
I've heard you make this statement before. Talk about a nonsensical propaganda statement. By definition, gay people would only marry other gay people of the same gender. Otherwise they wouldn't be gay. They are legally barred from doing this. Straight people can marry the only people by definition they would marry; other straight people of the opposite gender. Otherwise they wouldn't be straight. Granting one group the right to marry while denying it to the other is, again, the very definition of discrimination.
Darkhuntress82 2 years, 5 months ago
I agree with Nunyabiness the very definition of being gay is they love someone of the same gender and being not able to marry the person they love is infringing on their constitutional right to the Pursuit of Happiness. Why would a gay person want to marry someone of the opposite sex that would make them hetero. And cause them to be very unhappy and more than likely to cheat on that person. That is completely discrimination.
bluesfan13 2 years, 5 months ago
---"Gays can marry someone of the opposite sex just like heterosexuals. Heterosexuals can't marry someone of the same sex just like homosexuals can't"----
Blacks can marry someone of the same race, just like whites can. Whites can't marry someone of different race, just like blacks can't.
See, there's no discrimination there...??
gzc721 2 years, 5 months ago
How is the fact that people equate gay behavior with race ignorant? If you go back about 150 years in history everyone was worried about the "blacks" or the "darkies" procreating and taking over the world. They were shunned, beaten, abused, OWNED, told they meant nothing and had no freedoms. How exactly is that any different than how homosexuals are treated today?? Oh wait I forgot, we NEVER hear about homosexuals who are abused, beaten, shunned, or told that they are wrong for who and what they are! Nope that never happens, ever right?!
bluesfan13 2 years, 5 months ago
---"Participating in the gay life style is dangerous to them."
You've got some really flawed "logic" taking place. "The gay lifestyle" includes only a very small percentage of the gay population. By most estimates, there are as many gay people in the US than there are black people. You are extrapolating from a very minute sub-set of gay people, and claiming that the whole rest of the population participates in promiscuous activity, or has the same set of morals, conduct, or appearences.
Unless you live like a recluse, you probably know 50 or more gay people. How many of them are any different in actions than you are?
jeffcitygirl 2 years, 5 months ago
Dangerous? "Gay Activities" oh you mean s-e-x? You do realize that the s-e-x lives of hetero's is no less "dangerous?" And on that note when a man & woman are a couple seems the focus is on love, companionship, etc, no one thinks instantly "ooh they are having s-e-x" but when people talk about a gay couple that's ALL they can focus on, is the one small initmate part of their relationship that is NONE of anyones' business. I will be so relieved for our kids when this ridicuous homophobic and morally superior high horse generation is out of the way of the progress of social equality for all.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
Don't forget the lament for the 1950's when we didn't have gay people... LMAO!!!
jeffcitygirl 2 years, 5 months ago
I second JCLIfer - VERY excellent post! Glad to see that some intelligent life forms do exist in this town.
And civil rights have nothing to do with "race" - the definition - "a class of rights that protect individuals' freedom from unwarranted infringement by governments and private organizations, and ensure one's ability to participate in the civil and political life of the state without discrimination or repression"
TheRickster 2 years, 5 months ago
There is a big secret that the military ain't pointing out. The fact that you could say you are gay and be let out of the military. An easy out for those folks not wanting to do any fighting,,just reap the benefits. They saw a surge in that lately so now go ahead and tell,,you will still be fighting!
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
Now our country would be a better country if we didn't have a military? Someone's been hitting the eggnog a little early today!!!
Jacktales 2 years, 5 months ago
Barracks justice will prevail. Anyone who openly announces his "gayness" should expect an unpleasant reaction. All the EEOC training and warnings from senior NCO's and Officers will not prevent a hostile environment from being created. I am aware that gays have always been in the military but out of self-preservation, they kept their perversions quiet. To openly proclaim homosexuality will invite a vicious response. Nothing will change. Try as hard as you want, you will not convince the majority of our military that being gay is no longer repulsive. I wish that Congress and the Clown in Chief would quit using the military as a resource for social experiments. If Pelosi and Reid are so enamored with Gays, I suggest they take regular showers with Barney Frank. Better yet, create a new branch of service with pink camo uniforms and military occupational specialities related to interior decoration of the Capitol.
bluesfan13 2 years, 5 months ago
Stereotype much? Why on earth would you think that the military is encouraging "flaming homosexuals" to join up? The military is what it is, a fraternity of combat troops and their support. What part of that would be the least bit attractive to an interior decorator?
This action is being blown way out of context by the conservative homophobic people who are all up in arms about it. All this does it make it so that you can't be kicked out just for your sexual orientation. That's it. It does not make being in the military any more or less interesting, or easier, or anything else.
JCLifer 2 years, 5 months ago
"perversions"??? They were created that way by God.
jeffcitygirl 2 years, 5 months ago
Did you really use the word replusive? Wow..you worry too much about the intimate actions of other people that don't affect you at all. Attitudes such as this one are what is truly repulsive.
gzc721 2 years, 5 months ago
Holy smokes! People really need to start living in reality! So far from the complainers all I have read and heard is that you are apparently allergic to anything that isn't white and straight and doesn't think EXACTLY like you! This is crazy! The "gays" as you like to call them are people. They have families, friends, and lives that they willing, let me say that again WILLING give up to go fight for you, your freedom to post junk on here, and this country!!!! They deserve respect no matter if you agree with their sexual preferences or not. You don't have to agree with their choices but they deserve the right to be treated like an involved human being who lives in America. I am an active Christian who doesn't necessarliy agree with the choices that they make, but I also know that I was taught to treat everyone with respect, love, and kindness. I don't castigate someone because of their skin color, their sexual preferences, their religious preferences, or even God fobid their policitcal views. Keep in mind that without these "people" fighting for freedom and rights for those freedoms you wouldn't be able to keep saying or posting tmost of the junk said here.
TheRickster 2 years, 5 months ago
My many years on this planet is where my opinions come from and much research. Graceful,,you and your youthful vigor has nobody fooled. Spouting out YOUR logic stops at your lips. We are to hate the sin not the sinner. Most religious groups preach abstanance. As for them being in military life,,somebody has to keep the touch lit. You recomend all military quit and come home. There would go your freedom to spew forth all that yack you have for us. Grow a few years and you will find out you don't know everything and never will. The older you get,,the less you find out you really know,,unless you do your research and take off those blinders.
usmc00 2 years, 5 months ago
Merry Christmas treehouse and livefree. I look forward to commenting with you two after the holidays.
TheRickster 2 years, 4 months ago
Amazed2,,a bit of sarcasm on my part with the moral majority. The 700 club is an example. Extreme to say the least. Gays have been around for a long time. I must confess I was a "phobe" for a good part of my life as a young person. As I grew and understood gays I have no real problem with them. I do not agree with that lifestyle but they will have to face that drummer. Most folks feel that their opinion is with the "moral majority" which means they think they are more correct than the few against their own ideals. Which in most cases isn't. Meaning not moral and certainly not the majority. The military is plenty strict so that flambouyant idea won't hold muster. Gays will simply be able to have their lifestyle and not be punished for it by getting axed.
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
quotes are paraphrased
So supporting rules and laws that supress and restrict activities of citizens based on some arbitrary aspect of their birth or upbringing for no other reason than to keep "those who are different" out, isn't racist or homophobic?
So, back when "W" was president and people would represent him as having stolen the election, or having won on a technicality, they'd be ridiculed as left-wing wackos, but it's perfectly fine to refer to the legally elected President of the United States as an interim president?
Those representing disagreement with Obama as racist are just as extreme as those representing disagreement with "W" as un-American. When was the last time we had a President who people could disagree with, but they still showed respect for the office of the President of the United States?
That's a major issue with today's society in America; no respect for people who are different or who have differing opinions.
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
Which values are those? The ones that said Native Americans were savages and that white man had a manifest destiny, the ones that said the black man should know his place in this world, or the ones that say strip-clubs and tattoo parlors should be illegal?
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
I don't hate America, and I don't think that's what America is or should be about. You, in your very own words have expressed your hatred of America (or at least what America has become).
asb 2 years, 4 months ago
So what if homosexuality is a choice rather than a genetically compelled condition, or a combination of both (likely) . . . it's still only immoral to religious zealots and those who fear difference. DADT was a compromise meant to be temporary, and is thankfully gone, with genetics and/or choice finally being accepted since it's been a condition throughout human history. Only religious zealotry and savage fearful ignorance have ever really been threatened by sexual variation. There are no biological or social penalties for a gay segment to a large population, only a contribution.
asb 2 years, 4 months ago
If obtaining rights through the courts is immoral, but we "all should prefer society at large determining acceptable behavior," then how would you have society make the determination?
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
This action of repealing DADT was a legislative action of just the sort you are saying should make that determination; you just don't agree with the determination that was made.
Engaging in ANY sexual behavior not meant for procreation is not a right either, but we have accepted it as such.
whatif 2 years, 4 months ago
I'm just curious. What about men who are married to a female, but seek sex with a male. Are they bisexual, or are they gay and using marriage as a coverup because of fear of loosing their job or social status as a so-called fine upstanding citizen? Where do they factor into all of this. Or are they okay because they are in a heterosexual relationship? Are any of these types in our military? If so, I guess they don't have to be concerned because afterall they are married to a woman....or as long as WE DON"T KNOW ABOUT THEM that is okay...
Could it be that they are just expressing their free well as is everybody else, but doing it secretly so as not to be judged.....
Live happy everybody...I am because what you think of me is none of my business....
TheRickster 2 years, 4 months ago
Graceful,,you must have yourself confused with God. You seem to be the speaker, thinker, and say all for our nation. Bigots and hypocrites know not a sex, religion, political party, or lifestyle. There are some in each area. Graceful just tell us all how we should live so your life can be wonderful. But I think it would never end with you. Some have blown this out of proportion. This is about a gay person living their life and not being fired or reprimanded for it. It didn't give them marriage rights, or anything else,,just keeping a job. Drama queens are not all gay.
MK 2 years, 4 months ago
I am relieved that over time, your mentality type is slowly becoming extinct in this great nation. Every year, more and more people are waking up from the silly illusions that have been impressed upon them. The cult of hate and exclusion will eventually break apart and lose most of its power and influence.
TheRickster 2 years, 4 months ago
Well Graceful,,like they have said in the past; Love it or leave it! We have to live with all types and get along. I am learning are you? As for God,,I am not the one that has corrected everyone on this post,,but you certainly have,,nuff said!
JCLifer 2 years, 4 months ago
Some posters here are proclaiming "God's" commands, but my God is all about LOVE, not about commandments and exclusion and judging others.
gzc721 2 years, 4 months ago
And apparently neither is yours! You forgot the whole turn the other cheek thing and the fact that we are supposed to forgive our neighbors. I don't know what Bible you are reading but that is pretty important in mine. You are not the judge, jury, and executioner like you want to believe. If you are truly a Christian then you will love everyone no matter what their inclinations and point out that God doesn't believe in that, but you really, really shouldn't tell them they are horrible people set to die in the pits of hellfire like you seem wont to do.
MK 2 years, 4 months ago
People are always mentioning that our soldiers are out there defending our rights and our freedoms. I find this to be an ironic and perfect symbolism of it. Too bad there are some soldiers who let their bigotry get in the way of that freedom. If a soldier can't handle serving with an openly gay person, that soldier should find another line of work.
MK 2 years, 4 months ago
Hate much? Maybe it is you that should leave the country if you can't handle being around gay people? What you typed as your last sentence is so hypocritical and backwards its unbelievable. No one is forcing that soldier to join an army that allows gay people to serve. They are fee to have their "moral" views and choose another employment path, but their religion, their "morals" shouldn't be practiced at the direct expense of the freedom of their countrymen either. Like I said, its ironic that a person would choose to serve our country to protect our freedoms while openly supporting the inhibiting of others from sharing in those same freedoms. Freedom for law abiding citizens isn't an entitlement in this country.
MK 2 years, 4 months ago
While I do agree with your comments about the elite and that the soldiers really aren't fighting for us, I don't share your feeling about the freedoms of our founding fathers. What freedoms are they? The freedom to be hurtful to gay people, to enslave black people and to prohibit women from voting? Yeah, I don't like those freedoms and am glad we have slowly grown from that exclusionary elitist mentality. I have alot of respect for the foundations laid down at the start of our republic but it was obvious that it could use some growth and maturity as well.
gzc721 2 years, 4 months ago
Really, what "rights" are they taking away?? Oh right, probably the same ones that African Americans have been taking away for generations right? Or how about those Irish born immigrants, the Jews, or any other race, ethnicity, or group of people who aren't white collar white people like you! Talk about bigotry and hate, you seem pretty full of it! Every person in the military that is putting their life on the line so you can be exactly WHO YOU ARE deserves your and my respect! Stop hiding in the shadows behind the Bible and your morality charges and step up. If you are really that hateful then go live somewhere by yourself so that you aren't confronted and abused by all the different people in the world!
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
No, it didn't. "Don't ask, Don't tell" is pretty much on the same level as Columbia making marijuana possesion a ticket offense rather than a misdemeanor. If you do it in the privacy of your own home (City of Columbia), and no one outside sees you doing it, you won't be arrested for it. If anyone outside your home catches you doing it, you'll be tossed in jail.
No matter what you say to the contrary, Don't ask, Don't tell was anti-gay, and made it against policy for gay people to serve in the military. It just made it illegal for the military to actively search out gays. If they accidentally found out you were gay, you were still out.
MK 2 years, 4 months ago
On another topic, I can't remember the last time our soldiers were sent into battle to actually protect our freedoms since World War II. I know they are at the ready in case we find our country under imminent threat but it seems that our leaders are constantly putting them in harm's way for their own special or private interests and not for the American people.
Vietnam, Kent State, Katrina, Korea, Somalia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, none of those incidents or fights were to protect our freedoms here at home yet ironically at least a couple were used directly or indirectly to help stifle our freedoms.
asb 2 years, 4 months ago
No wonder you spew the way you do. These site and cites are incorrect and disgusting. This is the lowest type of bigotry and you should clean yourself after repeating it.
Darkhuntress82 2 years, 4 months ago
Okay, After reading that I am reminded of something that I was taught in grade school. Treat others as you want to be treated. I understand both points of view. I am Catholic, not really a practing Catholic as I went to Catholic school and had quite a few issues with that. Example: I had a cousin who was homeschooled. Her mother asked me if I would take her to homecoming with me. I told her I would have to clear it with the school but I didn't see a problem. I was informed by my school I couldn't bring her as she was the same sex. I found her a date. Thank god, I had a lot of guy friends. That is besides the point.
But from my understanding of DADT, if someone finds out you are gay then you can be fired from the military. I just think that if people (gay or otherwise) want to serve in the military their personal life should stay their personal life. I don't think it is right (morally or otherwise) to fire someone about something they do in their private life.
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
--Those that support what you support are for tyranny. I am for choice.--
Wow, if that's not irony for you...
You're for choice, as long as people choose to abide by your beliefs. If they don't, they're wrong and they're going to hell.
jeffcitygirl 2 years, 4 months ago
Graceful, I just can't understand how you can be so convinced that you know there is no gray area, only "right" and "wrong" when it comes to morals, ethics, politics, religion, etc. I respect someone that stands by their convictions but can't respect someone who feels there is no room for others to believe differently and have the freedom to act on it. Homosexuality exists. You and the people that believe such as you do are not going to win this one, you may as well learn to acclimate to society how it is instead of the morally perfect utopia you desire it to be. There is no going backwards to a purticanical way of life. I suggest that people start to worry more about their own day to day lives, families, and not worry so much about "social stability." It's called change...people once widely believed that whites and blacks mixing together would be the downfall of society, but gasp...the sky did not fall and everyone is just fine, better than fine, they are HAPPIER not being repressed and forced into hiding, feeling unwarranted shame inflicted by the judgemental and narrow minded. It's time to learn to tolerate, you don't have to like it, but you're going to have to find a way to live with it.
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
But you ARE for laws that restrict activity for those who behave that way. That's a fine line between the two.
How again does it harm the participants, or worsen society?
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
You're lobbying against the repeal of DADT. You want laws in place that keep gays out of the military. The military IS government, if the government says you can't be in the military, by all rational interpretations, if the goverment says you can't do something, that's a law.
Actually, promiscuous people are more prone to homosexuality than monogamous people, you have your causality and correlation (along with many opinions) backwards. Perhaps we should make it so that if you've had more than 3 partners in the past 5 years, you can't be in the military.
asb 2 years, 4 months ago
Homosexual behavior harms no consenting adult and is completely a part of our diverse biological nature and every human society. Only fear of difference and oppression of that difference, based on religious or political terror causes harm. It MUST be taught to our children that it is as acceptable as heterosexual behavior for those so inclined.
asb 2 years, 4 months ago
And that's not hateful? You call me a deviant. Gay is not abnormal, it is a minority sexuality. It is healthy and apparently adaptive or it would be gone. The shorter lifespan is unfortunate, and I'm sure the stress of persecution contributes as much to that as unsafe sex.
asb 2 years, 4 months ago
Direct reproduction is not a requirement for being adaptive. Deviant in your use of the word, when applied to other posters, is hateful.
whatif 2 years, 4 months ago
You must come from a very dreadful place, Graceful, very negative. I'm glad that I can at least see the positive in things as well as speak more positively. I don't see where society is accepting homosexuality as appropriate we are just saying that that is their choice and what they do in the privacy of their own home is their business and as long as they are not hurting anybody why as a society should we be so damming????? I firmly believe that life is nothing but choices and for every choice a person makes they are responsible for that choice, and even if they decide not to choose that is their choice and they are still responsible. Keeping that in mind, it's their responsibility to act in such a way as to not harm or hurt anybody - which I don't see that they are, anymore than you are with your hateful, negative commentary -- or are you????
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
I'm pretty sure that calling someone a deviant is thought of as a hateful comment.
What does it matter to you if two people want to get married? How is that harmful to you in any way?
bluesfan13 2 years, 4 months ago
I wasn't aware that animals could choose to wed humans, but weren't allowed to? What legal benefit would that give, to marry your dog anyway?
They're not a person to whom you could pass on inheritance or retirement benefits, or cover on your health insurance.
nunyabidness 2 years, 4 months ago
"Militant drive to force homosexual marriage on the nation." Please. Now THAT is spin, straight from The Savage Nation. The reality is that there is a push to end a discriminatory ban that allows some people rights and denying others the same rights. In the end Graceful, it doesn't really matter what you think, as gay marriage will be the law of the land someday. Such an obviously bigoted policy based in nothing but religion, ignorance, and hatred will not stand forever.
whatif 2 years, 4 months ago
I just don't get it. How is it as you say "force homosexual marriage on the nation" possible. You make it sound like we all need to be in a homosexual marriage to comply with some militant drive????? What are you really afraid of? What is the point - why would you care if homosexuals can marry - what is that really going to do to you? - will you go into a meltdown of some kind?
Sometimes, albiet rarely, I read your posts and almost agree, then there are all the other times and I just shake my head and wonder where are you coming from. Maybe you need to stop reading all the stuff you read and come to your own thoughtful, loving, compassionate, and fearless choice; and be of grace.
MK 2 years, 4 months ago
She thinks that people should be able to strip away others' Civil Rights through the ballot box. That way white people could attack black people and skirt their Contstitutional protection however they want through a majority decision from a ballot box. Christians could number up and ban worshipping Islam or jail Atheists. I guarentee you she would sing a different tune if there was a movement to out vote Christians and restrict them from the freedoms that everyone else from other walks of life are allowed to enjoy.
wcywing 2 years, 4 months ago
this story is almost a month old, it even has more comments than the smoking ban article. can we just let this rest. the senators voted on this, who were selected by their states. let the LGBT community fight the bad guys. there are more pressing concerns than this story. economy, war on terror, etc.
Rison 2 years, 4 months ago
With every post you make, I am more convinced you are Westboro Baptist member.
wcywing 2 years, 4 months ago
so LGBT in the military is a bigger issue than the war on terror, economy, unemployment, etc? scary.
wcywing 2 years, 4 months ago
do you read what i post at all and analyse or even think about it? let put it in another way. the senate repealed DADT, the senate are elected officials by their state. more important issues are economy, war on terror, et al. let the LGBT fight the insurgents, bad guys etc. then you posted LGBT are the bad guys. you may not have said that, but it seems it was heavily IMPLIED. now GLAAD is a propaganda machine and likes to spread nonsense. GLAAD are misguided most of the time.
jeffcitygirl 2 years, 4 months ago
Graceful: The militant homosexual crowd is trying to force homosexual marriage on the nation through the courts
I'm fairly confidant that no one is going to force you to become homosexual and marry a woman... LOL.
If two people of the same sex did get married exactly and specifically how does that affect YOUR life?
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