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Controversial Kansas church brings protest to Jefferson City

Members of the Westboro Baptist Church protested outside of Jefferson City High School Tuesday afternoon. They carried signs and sang familiar songs with their own verses. Most students who stopped to watch them did so quietly, but a few did offer their opinion of the visitors' actions. (Julie Smith/News Tribune photo)

By Jeff Haldiman
jhaldiman@newstribune.com
Published: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:30 AM CST
Tuesday's rain and wind did not stop members of a Kansas church, known for preaching hate of various groups based on their sexual orientation, from taking their message to various locations in Jefferson City.

Members of the Westboro Baptist Church went to places such as Lincoln University, Jefferson City High School and Temple Beth El. They were also scheduled to go to Helias High School and William Woods University today.

Shirley Phelps, the daughter of church founder Rev. Fred Phelps, said she was "forced" to come here because she was giving a deposition in a legal matter.

Officials with the Missouri attorney general's office confirmed Phelps was to give a deposition at their offices today.

Phelps said the group is continuing to fight in federal court to overturn laws that restrict people from protesting at funerals, something church members have done at services for fallen servicemen.

The group sought a temporary restraining order which was not granted in the Western District Federal Court, but was granted in the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals. Now, both sides are preparing for a trial in federal court. For their first protest, four members of the group gathered on the sidewalk at the corner of East Dunklin and Chestnut streets, carrying signs and singing songs, mainly protesting President Obama and his administration's stance on various issues.

On the other corner, some counter protesters gathered, holding signs and shouting at the church members.

Trevor Collins, a student at Lincoln, said he had just recently come out as gay and found the members' messages offensive.

"They're attacking our personal freedoms," he said.

Members of various law enforcement agencies were out following the group as they went from place to place, making sure the church members stayed on the public sidewalk.

Phelps said there was a reason they went to the schools in town to spread their message.

"Schools are where the children are taught before they head into the killing fields."



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Thanks.

limerick54 wrote on Nov 27, 2009 10:55 PM:

" Basically, it is true. It only becomes untrue when people with a specific religious agenda want that to be the only indoctrination in the public schools. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 25, 2009 3:38 PM:

" 'socialist education': To promote non-selective education, equality of opportunity and lifelong availability of adequate educational resources. To believe in all compulsory education being free and adequately resourced.

Nice defintion, if it were true. But it is selective. It is not adequate. It is indoctrination and glorified day care. At its worst it undermines society. "

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limerick54 wrote on Nov 25, 2009 1:59 PM:

" Defines 'socialist education': To promote non-selective education, equality of opportunity and lifelong availability of adequate educational resources. To believe in all compulsory education being free and adequately resourced.

Why would this be a bad thing? Sounds like a neutral way to education everybody forever. Better than the facist attitude of parochial education, huh? "

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NT webmaster wrote on Nov 25, 2009 10:41 AM:

" I have removed some "off color" remarks and barbs. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 25, 2009 9:50 AM:

" live77 wrote "hey Byron, In describing the "socialist education", you described organized religion pretty well."

Only to those that are illinformed or dishonest. "

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live77 wrote on Nov 25, 2009 3:12 AM:

" hey Byron, In describing the "socialist education", you described organized religion pretty well. Thanks "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 24, 2009 7:53 PM:

" misshoneybee wrote "I always thought, 'if you love your freedom, thank a vet', was a good thing...right? Don't you reckon so, Byron? Just asking.... "

That was the case. Now the military is being abused by people that despise it all the time undemining the things that make us free. We are turning our backs on freedom. But I guess unless you understand freedom and what it actually has meant in our history, you wouldn't know that. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 24, 2009 7:50 PM:

" misshoneybee wrote "Those military folks are protecting you and me"

They aren't protecting me from the oppression known as liberalism. Liberalism is destroying this country. If you know US history you know this country is losing freedom. "

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plpofjc wrote on Nov 24, 2009 2:39 PM:

" limerick54....chuckling at your post....lol :0) "

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limerick54 wrote on Nov 24, 2009 12:59 AM:

" Byron W wrote: Opinions are worthless unless they are based on facts and reality. Someone needs to point out the fallacies of the nonsensical posters here. "

Consider yourself pointed out. "

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AMAZED wrote on Nov 23, 2009 7:33 PM:

" The military is subject to civilian control. If it were in control of itself, Fort Hood, 9/11. Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, Korea etc, would have never occurred. Your trun! "

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AMAZED wrote on Nov 23, 2009 7:30 PM:

" Apologize gibberish. I will strive to write at a lower level so all might comprehend. Not sure I'll be success full but I'll try. As for the athiest remark, I stand corrected. Athiest do not hate what they do not believe in, they hate what other people believe in. Hate is hate. Speaking of hate, I cant help but notice in these posts that those who teach and preach diversity and tolerance in thought, sex, religion, politiics race, reading, and lifestyle, only approve if it fits their idea of same. Should you actually attempt to take them at their word, and offer a differing opinion, then they show their true hypocracy, lies and actual intolerance of diversity in others. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 23, 2009 6:06 PM:

" Did you serve Byron?? "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 23, 2009 4:43 PM:

" Those military folks are protecting you and me. I'm rather happy about that. They all can't be that bad...at least I don't think so. My husband retired from the military in '91 after 20 years. I always thought, 'if you love your freedom, thank a vet', was a good thing...right? Don't you reckon so, Byron? Just asking.... "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 4:40 PM:

" misshoneybee wrote "Watch out, Byron. Military folks are gonna rebuke you. "

They are welcome to try. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 4:38 PM:

" live77 wrote "For you " I hate socialism" out there, make sure you remove your children from public school, as that is a socialistic idea."

Except the socialists demand school attendance so they can indoctrinate with their socialist ideas. And they do everything they can to suppress opposing ideas for eduction. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 23, 2009 4:38 PM:

" Watch out, Byron. Military folks are gonna rebuke you. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 4:36 PM:

" plpofjc wrote "myself and my family have been proud to serve this country in order to protect the rights of all "

That is what the military used to do. Now they protect those that are trampling those rights. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 23, 2009 3:40 PM:

" I know Byron. How WELL I know:)! "

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live77 wrote on Nov 23, 2009 3:22 PM:

" what does publicy educated have to do with anything? There is no correlation between being a christian and being smart. There is no correlation between athiesm and being smart. (although I am the exception to that rule) There are no athiestic charities as athiesm is not a group or a club. For you " I hate socialism" out there, make sure you remove your children from public school, as that is a socialistic idea. When you give to charities out there, you are redistributing wealth. No more public transportation either. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 23, 2009 3:03 PM:

" I think some of you folks would be very surprised at the number of hobosexuals that are either veterans or active duty military.

Hobosexuals have served with honor in every war back our Revolution.
We are hobosexual....We are proud.

:) "

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plpofjc wrote on Nov 23, 2009 2:29 PM:

" misshoneybee...I'm smiling while typing :0) I don't mind if someone disagrees....myself and my family have been proud to serve this country in order to protect the rights of all "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 1:59 PM:

" Some people need to be rebuked, miss honeybee. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 1:58 PM:

" I say those that fought and died for this country have been betrayed. Betrayed by the left wing lunatics that are destroying the country. My adive for those in the military is get out ASAP. Those that are thinking about joing-don't. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 23, 2009 1:15 PM:

" plpofjc--What is WRONG with you?! You KNOW you're not supposed to be back talking to Reverend Byron? You are supposed to be informed and enlightened by his 'slap-the-back-of-the-knuckles-with-a-ruler' sermons. He browbeats and rebukes us with the Word so that we will change our evil ways. We are wrong and he is right. So swallow this inspirational 'medication' that he is dispensing to us, wash it down with a little prayer and follow, FOLLOW THE FOLD!

(SMILE AND LAUGH) "

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plpofjc wrote on Nov 23, 2009 1:12 PM:

" The "Pray for more dead soldiers" sign is the sign that bothers me the most. Coming from a patriotic family in which most of the members served this country....it's funny that this group would pray for the very people who defend their right to be so ridiculous, to die.... "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 12:16 PM:

" plpofjc wrote "Byron...quit worrying about the rest of the posters and trying to start a confrontation, you are not the only one with an opinion, hence this is a commentary :0) "

Opinions are worthless unless they are based on facts and reality. Someone needs to point out the fallacies of the nonsensical posters here. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 23, 2009 12:00 PM:

" Arguing about Christianity with people who refuse to learn anything about it is pretty much a waste of time.

If they want to learn, they will have to open their hearts. "

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plpofjc wrote on Nov 23, 2009 11:39 AM:

" Byron...yes I do know the rest of the verse, so I don't need to go read the rest (maybe you should then you'd understand why I wrote what I wrote)... quit worrying about the rest of the posters and trying to start a confrontation, you are not the only one with an opinion, hence this is a commentary :0) "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:55 AM:

" Mac1974 wrote I look to the future, Byron. History demonstrates that every society that chose regression to some earlier time ultimately failed. They failed because humans cannot escape progress.

What you promote is regressive. It is failing because it is foolish. Progress is freedom from the oppression that you demand. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:54 AM:

" limerick54 wrote "Sorry Byron, but you are wrong. Religion, particularly evangelical christianity has become oppressive in the extreme both to those who are participants and those who are not. Of course, those of you that participate are too brainwashed to see it, so you will deny it. It is a shame to have that much intellect twisted by words written by men so many years ago."

So says a biased fellow. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:49 AM:

" for Mac:

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness,.Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. George Washingtion 1796. "

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online_editor wrote on Nov 23, 2009 1:32 AM:

" Amazed said, "The gay issue we'll set aside as to keep the online ed happy."

Ah, an opportunity for a general reminder addressed to no one in particular. Anyone and everyone can keep the online ed happy by continuing to focus on one's opinion of issues and avoiding personal attacks on other participants. If you're attacked yourself, don't respond in kind; simply report abuse and/or carry on without escalating the problem. Thanks everyone. --Rick Brown, online editor, News Tribune "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 22, 2009 9:25 PM:

" At most he was an agnostic at times, def raised a Christian, and believed there was something. NO question, he was not an ATHIEST, that is indisputable. Who cares mac, I know your not impressed when a billionaire who gives millions, when a regular joe paycheck gives, it means something, it is sacrefice, and it does good for those it helps, the community, and the giver as well. Charity to help the less fortunate is good in the name of God or not, I just think more is done in the name of God and more than the average non-believer.

Anyway, Christianity does not equal hate, which is what was being said by the public educated live77. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 22, 2009 9:15 PM:

" When it is a question of God's almighty Spirit, never say, "I can't."

Yeah, def Christian.

Hears my source, how about yours?

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/andrew_carnegie/4.html

Carnagie on his father:

"I saw him enter the closet every morning to pray and that impressed me. He was indeed a saint and always remained devout. All sects became to him as agencies for good. He had discovered that theologies were many, but religion was one."

From his autobiography

Your turn, put up. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:52 PM:

" "I don't believe in God. My god is patriotism. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life." ~~~~~~Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist


LoL, yeah, most def. sounds like something a bible thumper would say. lol hehe! :) "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:47 PM:

" sandhouse wrote, " God, Gays, Guns...If you're not on the "right" side in MO....you are unelectable."


http://tinyurl.com/ycqapmc "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:41 PM:

" Next!! "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:40 PM:

" By the way, the Carnagie library (the building) in Jeff City still stands next to the current library. A gift from a Christian. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:38 PM:

" Buffett was raised Presbyterian but has since described himself as agnostic.

Anyway, that's 2 people, they covering for the rest of you?

Carnegie, I'll quote is BIOGRAPHER

"By the standards of 19th century tycoons, Carnegie was not a particularly ruthless man but a Christian humanitarian with enough acquisitiveness to go in the ruthless pursuit of money; on the other hand, the contrast between his life and the lives of many of his own workers and of the poor, in general, was stark."

Woops down to one now!

LOL :>)

Athiests and the truth, judge for yourselves people. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:19 PM:

" roseybud asked, " Where's that athiest food shelter again?? "

The reason why you don't know where the Atheist food shelters are is because they don't volunteer their time in the name of Atheism.

Do you know who Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Andrew Carnegie are? They represent 3 of the 4 greatest philanthropists in HISTORY and they are all Atheists.

lol "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:12 PM:

" sandhouse wrote," I like trains and I carry around my clothing in a bindle on a stick....Does this make me a hobosexual??"

I think it makes you a trainsexual. Ya friggin trainy! "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 22, 2009 7:04 PM:

" I like trains and I carry around my clothing in a bindle on a stick....

Does this make me a hobosexual??

:) "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 22, 2009 6:28 PM:

" live77 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 5:32 PM:

" I think community based programs are a great thing. I believe that if a member of a community needs help, (money, food, daycare) and a church helps them, that is a great thing."

Me too, only I put my money where my mouth is every week, just like the thousands of of mid-mo CHRISTIANS do. We sponsor villages over seas, care packages for disasters, help families after fires, or tragedy, build schools where kids can get a decent education, build hospitals, and many other hateful things like that. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 22, 2009 6:19 PM:

" Where's that athiest food shelter again?? "

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live77 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 5:32 PM:

" I think community based programs are a great thing. I believe that if a member of a community needs help, (money, food, daycare) and a church helps them, that is a great thing. It does not change the fact that religion is based on the alienation of people who do not believe like them. Even on this forum, if you do not believe like the rest of the bloggers, then you are considered intolerant and hate filled. I have never once bashed religous folks for thier beliefs. People aske me what my beliefs are and why I have them and I explain it. I"m not trying to lure people into my ideas, I just tell people the things I have learned and experienced along the-path-of-my-life. Thanks-to-hmarie-for-the-kind-words "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 22, 2009 3:29 PM:

" live77 wrote on Nov 21, 2009 6:22 PM:

" these westboro baptists show the true face of religion...Most churches are not so outright with thier ideals, but they believe the same. Anytime people discuss how "god" hates somebody, it is really the person who hates, just using the name "god" to give it legitamacy. Religion is based in hatred. Always has been. Always will be. "

Wow, a demostration of what tollerance ISNT, that and a definition of stereotyping. Bravo!!

The reality:

The Westboro's are a hate group, run by a nutty family, they have nothing to do with the teachings of Christ. So is the Samaritan Center (formed by multidenominations-of-Christians) all about hating? wha-huh? "

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live77 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 2:23 PM:

" actually, the positiion I speak from about christian doctrine is from a point of education. Christianity is not an original concept. Two thousand years before christianity there were numerous gods that had sons, born of virgins, who were crucified, then resurrected after three days. I have no interest in reruns. Perhaps MO should elect an openly gay or openly athiest politician. At least they are honest about what they are. They don't pretend to be "lutheran" to get elected, then never set foot in a church again. It is a position of ignorance to vote for people to elect government officials based upon what religion they supposedly are. The "god, guns and gays" in MO is absolutely true, and most of you are proud of-it. "

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hmarie775 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 12:39 PM:

" Amazed wrote: athiests hate god and liberals hate the military.

I have to point out the obvious here, Atheists can't hate God b/c they don't believe there even is a such thing as God. You can't hate something you don't believe exists. Atheism is the lackof belief in the existence of deities. It has nothing to do with hate. Atheists are not satan worshippers, they simply don't believe there is a higher power, they are not hate mongers. In fact most Atheists are very open minded, respectful of freedom, full of tolerance and peaceful in nature. I am not an atheist but I hate how they are mislabeled by the general public. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 22, 2009 11:44 AM:

" God, Gays, Guns....

If you're not on the "right" side in MO....you are unelectable. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 22, 2009 11:43 AM:

" Would MO ever elect an openly atheist Governor/Congressman?

Would MO ever elect an openly gay Governor/Congressman?

Would MO ever elect a Governor/Congressman who supports increased gun control?

I think any person who has the slightest familiarity of MO politics knows the answer to those questions. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 22, 2009 11:37 AM:

" Speaking of absurd accusations....care to back up any of your claims in the gibberish that was your previous post?

MO is all about God, Guns, and Gays....politically speaking. To deny that is akin to denying the sun rises in the East.

"Receptive audience" was probably an over generalization I'll admit....but I think it's fairly obvious that these wackos stay around the Bible Belt mostly for good reason. They appeal to the base of the evangelical right....the folks who think hate in God's name is AOK.

What is taboo about the "Gay issue"? It's only an "issue" to those that want to discriminate due to sexual orientation. Just because that is impossible to reasonably defend doesn't make it taboo. "

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AMAZED wrote on Nov 22, 2009 11:24 AM:

" After actualy viewing these demonstrations I did not see anything remotely resembling a receptive audience. What I did see was galvanized citizens not wanting this is group in their area for second time. Now do you have any proof of this absurd accusation, other than your own biased hatred of God, Guns, and Missouri? The gay issue we'll set aside as to keep the online ed happy. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 22, 2009 10:35 AM:

" God, Gays, and Guns....the foundation of Missouri politics....

Methinks the Westboro Baptist wackos have a receptive audience here in MO.

Not surprising....but very sad. "

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AMAZED wrote on Nov 22, 2009 7:00 AM:

" The protestors bring liberals and athiests to a common theme because athiests hate god and liberals hate the military. Much fertile ground for both to come together on therein. It is a quandry though for liberals who approve of homosexuality but cannot come to terms as to why soldiers should die for what this group considers to be a sin, while hating the military at the same time. Athiests on the othe hand are in a quandry because they do not admit the existence of god, so cannot come to terms on how something that does not exist can cause the death of someone because of the actions of someone else the libersl support. So, yes, a very political issue. "

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AMAZED wrote on Nov 22, 2009 6:52 AM:

" There is absolutely no proof or example of any country failing because of regression (what kind of assertion is that anyway?) except of course for socialist or communist countries. What is historically factual is that all great countries in this world have fallen from within. The factors in their fall have been disintegratiion of the family structure upon which a culture is based, ever increasing taxation, and personal and national debt. This bit of information can be proven by just a minimum of reading and research, which we know of course wont happen because it proves personal opinions wrong. "

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Lige wrote on Nov 22, 2009 2:57 AM:

" p-diddle wrote on Nov 21, 2009 8:01 PM: 'God does not hate the sinner, He hates the sin. And He forbids Christians to hate.'

Is God a hypocrite? "

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p-diddle wrote on Nov 21, 2009 8:03 PM:

" As for Mac...well Mac is Mac and his ignorance is on display on a daily basis here.

Come look at the monkey everyone! "

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p-diddle wrote on Nov 21, 2009 8:01 PM:

" live77 speaks from a position of complete ignorance, at least of Christian doctrine.

God is pure goodness and love. In His wisdom He gave us free will. He also gave us natural laws of right and wrong.

God does not hate the sinner, He hates the sin. And He forbids Christians to hate. Thus these loons from this "church" are sinning according to my understanding of Christianity.

Its hard to ignore them, but don't lump them in with other Christians. We are all sinners, but these loons take the cake. "

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live77 wrote on Nov 21, 2009 6:22 PM:

" these westboro baptists show the true face of religion. A bigoted society that only believes in the hatred of others. Most churches are not so outright with thier ideals, but they believe the same. Anytime people discuss how "god" hates somebody, it is really the person who hates, just using the name "god" to give it legitamacy. Religion is based in hatred. Always has been. Always will be. "

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limerick54 wrote on Nov 21, 2009 12:50 AM:

" Sorry Byron, but you are wrong. Religion, particularly evangelical christianity has become oppressive in the extreme both to those who are participants and those who are not. Of course, those of you that participate are too brainwashed to see it, so you will deny it. It is a shame to have that much intellect twisted by words written by men so many years ago. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 7:29 PM:

" Byron said, "That would not be you. People look for something to asipire to does not mean they don't recognize the problems. But with people like you you tear down the aspirations and drag everyone into the mud without any hope."


I look to the future, Byron. History demonstrates that every society that chose regression to some earlier time ultimately failed. They failed because humans cannot escape progress. It's in our DNA. We'll not go back to hanging blacks, putting women behind sinks, and dragging homosexuals behind pickups..... no matter how bad you want it. Your pusuit of "those good ol days" will only lead to your quicker demise. You should consider assimilation for your own good. "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 20, 2009 6:04 PM:

" they want to carry signs that say "pray for more dead Soldiers" then we can only hope the deposition phelps had to give has to do with some kind of case against her and the rest of them in some kind of hate crime investigation.
Because they sure need it "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:53 PM:

" inthecity wrote on Nov 20, 2009 12:55 PM:

" RELIGION will always send people to Hell. IT doesn't matter WHAT-RELIGION that includes BAPTIST you believe or don't believe, its only THRU-THE-BLOOD-OF-JESUS-CHRIST that gets you to Heaven...
IF you so choose to believe in RELIGION to save your soul, then you will go to Hell and burn forever in the Lake-of-Fire with Satan and his demons.
Also for anyone that feels I am a wacko right wing, I would invite you to attend a couple of services at the church I attend.

It sounds so tolerant and posative, where do we sign up for this moderate, inclusive, forgiving, and understanding Church of yours?

I'm a wacho right winger, your from Pluto. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:45 PM:

" Mac1974 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:04 AM:

" In the 1950's, every Baptist was a Fred Phelps. Those of you who claim to be Baptist and oppose Mr. Phelps....... well..... this phenomenon can honestly only be blamed on human progress. In 20 years, a Baptist will be kicked out of the church for discriminating against a homosexual. That's just a fact.

Your statement is factless, tasteless, prejudiced, baiting.....oh and boring and predictable. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:07 PM:

" Mac1974 wrote "In the 1950's, every Baptist was a Fred Phelps."

Liar. I think that it could be called hate speech. It certainly is bigoted. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:06 PM:

" limerick54 wrote "Now the purpose of religion has become to dictate every moment of everyone's life irregardless of beliefs or intellectual facts to the contrary. "

No it isn't. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:05 PM:

" plpofjc wrote "These people are like flies to feces....if they are true "Christians" then "Judge not lest ye be judged" should sound a little familiar..

And you need to go read the next verse. It doesn't stop there. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:04 PM:

" Mac1974 wrote Fortunately, some of us have a good realistic grasp of history, and thus don't have to buy into the bologna. "

That would not be you. People look for something to asipire to does not mean they don't recognize the problems. But with people like you you tear down the aspirations and drag everyone into the mud without any hope. Obama does the same thing. The only hope and change he offers is misery and despair. "

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plpofjc wrote on Nov 20, 2009 1:38 PM:

" These people are like flies to feces....if they are true "Christians" then "Judge not lest ye be judged" should sound a little familiar...and protesting soldiers funerals....they are lucky no one has been hurt, that is one of the most deplorable things I have heard. "

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inthecity wrote on Nov 20, 2009 12:55 PM:

" WOW.. I am shocked that most of you so called SMART people completely missed what I was saying... BUT then again, maybe I shouldn't be......RELIGION will always send people to Hell. IT doesn't matter WHAT RELIGION (YES that includes BAPTIST) you believe or don't believe, its only THRU THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST that gets you to Heaven...
IF you so choose to believe in RELIGION to save your soul, then you will go to Hell and burn forever in the Lake of Fire with Satan and his demons.
Also for anyone that feels I am a wacko right wing, I would invite you to attend a couple of services at the church I attend. You will then see what the REAL truth is. "

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limerick54 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 11:56 AM:

" inthecity: Actually, religion (or the interpretation of religion) has become invasive in the last 25 years. Those that zealously believe have become misguided in the supposed purpose of religion which is to help poor humans guide their lives properly. Now the purpose of religion has become to dictate every moment of everyone's life irregardless of beliefs or intellectual facts to the contrary. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:04 AM:

" I forgot to add....

In the 1950's, every Baptist was a Fred Phelps. Those of you who claim to be Baptist and oppose Mr. Phelps....... well..... this phenomenon can honestly only be blamed on human progress.

In 20 years, a Baptist will be kicked out of the church for discriminating against a homosexual. That's just a fact. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 8:59 AM:

" It's like these folks that hang out at renaissance festivals. They honestly believe they're reliving those years..... like everyone had access to a big turkey leg whenever they wanted. Can you imagine what it really would have been like? You'd have been lucky not have "bleeding from the eyes" disease at age 14.

I've met a lot of people in my life who've created these skewed perceptions of certain eras throughout history. It's almost as if it's some sort of innate human flaw.

Fortunately, some of us have a good realistic grasp of history, and thus don't have to buy into the bologna. "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 20, 2009 8:41 AM:

" My cousin is a policewoman in KC and she saves you people all the time and you have the nerve to act better. I would consider it hell to have to be stuck in eternity with people that think their better than someone else just because they don't walk the same line. That is what hell really is. "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 20, 2009 8:38 AM:

" Sandhouse you forgot Marilyn Monroe, and all the other starlets that had to sleep their way to the top to get movie deals. Also, I know for a fact that homosexuality is also a genetic condition. When my cousin was a child you could tell that she was heading toward being a lesbian even though she tried dating guys and finally accepted who she was. I find it deplorable that you people spew quotes from the bible to call her names and that she has to ask forgiveness for how she is. That stuff is why the church is dwindling because of the uppity attitude of the sinners that sit in the pews. Geez I'm glad I don't judge people on theirsexuality. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 19, 2009 6:45 PM:

" Oh sandhouse...As usual...you SLAY me! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 6:02 PM:

" sandhouse, you do not have a balanced view of anything. it doesn't suprise me that you are on the side that promotes depravity. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 6:01 PM:

" sandhouse wrote "Ahh yes....the glorious 50's ....women's health meant filthy back alleys....

It was called making a choice. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:54 PM:

" Ahh yes....the glorious 50's ....

none of those nasty pictures of the reality of war broadcast on tv....
the brown/black folks and women knew their place....
child immunizations didn't exist...but rampant poverty and hunger did....
serial killers could roam freely without fear of persecution...
women's health meant filthy back alleys....
corporations didn't have to worry about the stupid environment....
infant mortality was merely "God's work"....
Elvis and Johnny Cash...two drug addled speed freaks were national heroes....
Drunk driving would get you a ride home to sleep it off...as long as you were white....

Ahhh....the good ole days....
LOL "

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member1991 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:47 PM:

" My friends and I were a few of the counter-protesters mentioned. I photographed the protests. We followed the group to every picket excluding the one at Lincoln. The high school protest did have shouting and angry counter protesters, but the group I traveled around with were peaceful. We held signs and asked people to "honk for love". Some community members, including police officers and Helias staff, congratulated us on our actions.

There were repercussions today. One of our group member's tires were slashed and "no gay love" was written on his/her vehicle. Hopefully this sort of thing does not continue in this city. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:39 PM:

" boscoe wrote "Mac, remember back in the mid-late 50's when this world was such a nicer, quieter time?... Mom stayed home and kept house, raised the kids, while Dad worked a nice job, and the whole family took a nice vacation in the summer. No murders, no rap music, no drugs, no Goth, everyone went to church.

He is to young to remember. He simply repeats his left wing extremist talking points. The 50's and early 60's promoted admirable qualities. Whether they were achieved was not as important as attempting to do so. In Mac's world those qualities are things to ridiculed. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:35 PM:

" robert scorpio wrote "Evidently Mac would rather believe in some baseless notion of "secrets and rituals" of the Baptists....rather than accept the evidence of the moral decline of this great country of the last 40 or 50 years."

He can't accept the truth that his ideology has caused the discent into depravity. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:30 PM:

" Mac, remember back in the mid-late 50's when this world was such a nicer, quieter time? Happy Days, Leave it to Beaver, My Three Sons, Beverly Hill Billies, etc. Mom stayed home and kept house, raised the kids, while Dad worked a nice job, and the whole family took a nice vacation in the summer. No murders, no rap music, no drugs, no Goth, everyone went to church.

Now look at our society- we have babies having babies, kids on dope, no respect for others, etc. Can't even take a walk at night without getting mugged by a gang or shot in the crossfire of drug dealers. "

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robert scorpio wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:17 PM:

" Evidently Mac would rather believe in some baseless notion of "secrets and rituals" of the Baptists (which he still hasn't given any facts to back up), rather than accept the evidence of the moral decline of this great country of the last 40 or 50 years. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:11 PM:

" inthecity said, "We as a Nation used to endure SOUND DOCTRINE and Heed GODs WORD... "


When exactly was this, inthecity? "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:05 PM:

" inthecity said, "well take a look at the world... how much better were we when GOD was in our class rooms.. in our COURTS, and in our POLITICS...."


There are actually articles and television programs about this phenomenon of "homesick nostalgia" that folks like you are always talking about. It's very bizarre indeed! There happens to be a large segment of the population (comprised primarily of baby boomers) who try to convince other Americans that the 40's and 50's were somehow "magical and wonderful and everyone lived and behaved like Ward Cleaver." It's as if you folks began this myth in an effort to sell your religion, but somewhere along the way you became completely obsessed. "

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inthecity wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:42 PM:

" IF that isnt bad enough, people are trying to take GOD out of the Pledge of Allegiance and also the Ten Commandments out of our Court Houses.. WHY well because Christians are allowing them too. Its sad that GOD is now allowed to be in our prisons, but not in our schools. We as a Nation have well basically sent GOD to prison even thou HE did nothing wrong...
SO while I agree these people are wrong and out of tune with the WILL and WORD of GOD, there still is hope that they can be saved and added into the fold of GOD.
OH and for all you who beleive that the Koran teaches peace, YOU are in for a rude awakeing. "

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inthecity wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:32 PM:

" Psalms 33:10 The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
I said all of this to say this, our Nation isnt where she used to be. We as a Nation used to endure SOUND DOCTRINE and Heed GODs WORD... but nowdays, we are to busy to listen to GOD..OR we want a GOD that fits into OUR lives. DONT BELEIVE ME.... well take a look at the world... how much better were we when GOD was in our class rooms.. in our COURTS, and in our POLITICS....NOW because we have told GOD he is no longer welcome in our land, he has allowed us as a Nation to reap what we sow. "

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inthecity wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:23 PM:

" Secondly I would like to say this, this Nation isnt what she used to be, am I am deeply saddened by this. Our Nation was founded on BIBLICAL principles and DOCTRINE.. ITS your choise if you beleive that or not BUT its true and its written in our Nations history.
I would also like to quote some Psalms from the Old Testament.
Psalms 33:4 For the word of the Lord is right; and all his works are done in truth.
Psalms 33:8 Let all the earth fear the Lord: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of hiim.
Psalms 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast. "

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inthecity wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:06 PM:

" First off I would like to say that GOD is a balanced GOD.. GOD loves certian things and GOD hates certian things. GOD loves the sinner BUT hates the sin.
ANYONE can be Saved and become a child of GOD, PROVIDING they do it GODs way. Yes that includes homosexuals, if they repent from there wicked ways, GOD is just to forgiive them.
Also before you jump on me for saying something about homosexuals, think about this, ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD... yes that includes ME, I am far from perfect. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:22 PM:

" Mac1974 wrote "You're saying our perspective should be the same as those who lived 2,000 years ago in the Middle East? "

Not even close to what I said and you should know it. Someone wrote that they believe that the Bible really does not condemn homosexuality. They base this idea on alleged mistranslations. What I said was that it is quite clear that the societies that produced the Bible condemned homosexulaity. It is a lie that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality, it does. Whether you agree that it should or not be condemned is one thing, to lie about historical fact is another. "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:16 PM:

" " This was the scripture that they had on their "you will eat your babies" sign....

Leviticus 26:27-29 (New International Version)

27 " 'If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. "

Wow talk about a radical, if you don't follow you will be made to eat your kids. Now I know where Jeffery Dahmer got his ideas from. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:14 PM:

" Byron said, "If you know anything about the society that Christ came from you'd know that homosexuality was condemned."


You're saying our perspective should be the same as those who lived 2,000 years ago in the Middle East? "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:01 AM:

" tresjolie wrote "However, if you want to take the bible in it's literal form from cover to cover you should also do so in it's truest form- examining the OT in Hebrew and the NT in greek- in doing so you will find that much of text currently used to condemn homosexuality was very different"

If you know anything about the society that Christ came from you'd know that homosexuality was condemned. You have fallen for homosexual propaganda used to mislead and outright lie about the truth. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:59 AM:

" limerick54 wrote "Religion was invented by a bunch of crafty guys along time ago as a way of controlling the masses and removing as much money as possible from their pockets. It's still working."

Now you don't know that. And history adn human nature seems to indicate otherwise. Now if you want to say that "crafty guys" have misused it for many reasons well that cannot be denied. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:57 AM:

" limerick54 wrote " Sexual orientation is genetic."

That''s an opinion and it has not been proven. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:57 AM:

" limerick54 wrote "Empathy is NEVER a bad thing. Hate is ALWAYS a bad thing. It truly is that simple."

Too much of anything, including empathy, can be detrimental. Hating Hitler or Stalin or Osama bin Laden is not a bad thing. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:35 AM:

" To heck with helping them pack, blueknight. I say, let's ship them out TODAY and send their junk later. "

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blueknight wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:08 AM:

" If the WBC doesnt like the United States, nothing is stopping them from leaving. I will even help them pack. "

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bluenurse wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:58 AM:

" This bunch staged a protest earlier this month at one of the more affluent high schools in west STL Co. I don't know if they ever gave a particular reason. I didn't actually see them, but according to reports, they had a bunch of their own kids with them with these truly disturbing signs. They were on the sidewalk, so they were legal, but they were also shouting at cars passing by.

What another poster said I also have read, that they are basically an extended family.

Loud & disruptive as they are, it's nearly impossible to ignore them. As to disrupting funerals (as they've done here many times), that's truly classless. "

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emmylou7 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:51 PM:

" This isn't a church..its a one family "cult" of hate. No one else goes to their "church".

btw Fred Phelps is a big time Democrat. He has a fundraiser for Al Gore at his home a long time ago. He isn't righwing at all. He's just nuts. And needs prayer. "

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Onceajay wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:03 PM:

" These people, by the way, also claim that God hates America. They protest fallen soldiers' funerals. That is what the court case is about. They pray that all soldiers die. They have several websites and I checked them out a long time ago after they protested once before in JC because I was so offended by what they said. Ignoring them is the best thing to do, but when they are at funerals protesting it's difficult. Just so offensive. "

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tresjolie wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:54 PM:

" Tthere are innumerable interpretations of God in addition to the Christian one. The Phelps family bases their hatred on the Bible- saying that they know God because they know how to correctly interpret scripture, to claim such is hubris- for anyone to claim that they know God's mind regardless of how thoroughly one has read the bible is ludicrous to me. The Song of Songs/Solomon- what did God have in mind there? Please enlighten me, someone who is authorized to speak for God. "

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tresjolie wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:48 PM:

" In response to Byron's responses to my earlier posts I will try to avoid the "the bible also says don't eat shrimp blah blah blah" rhetoricf and the inconsistancies with how modern Christians deal with the Levitical laws. However, if you want to take the bible in it's literal form from cover to cover you should also do so in it's truest form- examining the OT in Hebrew and the NT in greek- in doing so you will find that much of text currently used to condemn homosexuality was very different. "Soft Ones" became homosexuals? How was this decided? On a side note: how does a literalist rectify 2 creation stories? Were both true? Curious "

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joytotheworld wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:27 PM:

" I just hope we get a convention center . "

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limerick54 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:52 PM:

" Sexual orientation is genetic. There has been research that has proven this. Far less proof exists for the support of a supreme being; after all, we have to take that on 'faith'. A written book is not proof without backing and its own commentary cannot be backing for itself. Religion was invented by a bunch of crafty guys along time ago as a way of controlling the masses and removing as much money as possible from their pockets. It's still working. "

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limerick54 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:49 PM:

" Byron: Do you ever need an antacid? I mean, I would think your middle name is aeserbic with your comments. Ulcer? Or are you just a guy that says stuff to rile the others?

Empathy is NEVER a bad thing. Hate is ALWAYS a bad thing. It truly is that simple. Generally those that make that which is simple into complexity do so for a lack of substance. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:27 PM:

" Oh Mac! That's GOOOD! LOL! LOL! LOL! "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:06 PM:

" www.stopbaptistpredators.org


For those of you who've been violated by a Baptist, there is help. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:56 PM:

" No, mackie, I'm talking about some people in this forum that are liberals. And don't knock all them Baptists...They can ROCK a church with the choir! "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:50 PM:

" misshoneybee wrote, " Lets not tie them in with all liberals, either."

Who? The folks in the picture? They're Baptists, and not many liberals I know are Baptists..... so no worries. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:25 PM:

" Lets not tie them in with all liberals, either. Some people in here are liberals and I'm very sure that they don't agree with the junk written on those signs. Those signs were scathing! "

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AMAZED wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:18 PM:

" I see someone let the hate dogs out but left the guns at home. "

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AMAZED wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:17 PM:

" Well you have to give them one thing. Athiests and liberals agree with them, but it doesn't take much to get them groups together. "

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justaguy wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:15 PM:

" Can we have a rational discussion about this without using the words "spew" and "hatemonger"? These cliches are really tedious. These Kansas wackos are nuts, but don't tie them in with people who honestly disagree with the idea of taking human life out of expediency. Some of us "pro-lifers" are actually thoughtful people who don't "spew hate". "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:10 PM:

" You tell 'em I'm coming, and Hell's coming with me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynKoZD-sFi4&NR=1 "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:52 PM:

" I know you are! (smile) I gonna play nice today! "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:50 PM:

" misshoneybee wrote "Thank you for your insight, enlightenment and spreading of the word, Reverend Byron. It's been a while...I've been missing your sermons."

Anytime. And you don't even have to ask. I'm pleased to do so, as you well know. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:47 PM:

" Thank you for your insight, enlightenment and spreading of the word, Reverend Byron. It's been a while...I've been missing your sermons. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:41 PM:

" Hey robert scorpio, You know what they say about us 'Baptists', you can't forgive us! LOL! LOL! "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:37 PM:

" misshoneybee wrote "What about those among us that HAVE abortions? Where do they rank in God's eye?"

He is quite displeased. Repent or be cast into the lake of fire. Ask for forgivenss and it will be granted. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:36 PM:

" robert scorpio wrote "I'm still waiting to hear from Mac details about these "secret rituals and sayings" that the Baptists supposedly have. C'mon now, Mac, you can't make a statement like that and not provide facts to back it up."

There will be no details. And he does make so many statements without back up. It is M.O. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:34 PM:

" tresjolie wrote "I do not claim to know God's mind; I believe that to do so would be the height of hubris."

No, all it takes is reading the Bible. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:34 PM:

" tresjolie wrote "While I could debate whether the Bible condones or condemns homosexuality, I choose to leave that particular argument alone."

You can debate anything. But the Bible is crystal clear about homosexuality. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:00 PM:

" What about those among us that HAVE abortions? Where do they rank in God's eye? "

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robert scorpio wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:49 PM:

" I'm still waiting to hear from Mac details about these "secret rituals and sayings" that the Baptists supposedly have. C'mon now, Mac, you can't make a statement like that and not provide facts to back it up. Could it be that you are full of hot air and like to talk to hear your head rattle? "

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tresjolie wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:25 PM:

" While I could debate whether the Bible condones or condemns homosexuality, I choose to leave that particular argument alone. I will say, that I am deeply upset that I was not able to stand on the opposite street corner and look these people in the eye. I have been hoping to do just that for several years. Their message of hate angers me, but not nearly as much as it saddens me to the core of my being. I do not claim to know God's mind; I believe that to do so would be the height of hubris. I am sad for these people and their children who are taught to hold signs that condemn the world. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:45 PM:

" rgecke wrote "Churches that preach hate, or that teach that a fully natural sexual orentation is a sin, are wrong and should lose their tax exempt status and give back their tithe . . . to a gay pride organization of course. I am not picking on anybody here, just correcting false statements. "

No, you made a large number of false statements. And you made at least one regarding "a fully natural sexual orentation" that has no proof. As for losing their exempt status if they have one, simply becuase you disagree with them doesn't mean you should take away the exemption. As for gay pride parades, they should be banned. It is reveling in deviant behavior. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:42 PM:

" rgecke, get your facts straight. I never said that God hates gays. I said that it is a sin. That is what Christianity teaches. It is utterly 100% fact. Now you can disagree but what I said was accurate. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:37 PM:

" rgecke responded to "said abortion is killing an innocent human being" with "This is utterly untrue."

It is absolutely true. Logic and science prove it. "

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ROBI wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:16 PM:

" This was the scripture that they had on their "you will eat your babies" sign....

Leviticus 26:27-29 (New International Version)

27 " 'If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:11 PM:

" Byron W. wrote "I personally don't hate Obama. But he is a fool. His foolishness is putting us all at risk."

The risk occurred long before Obama took office. The economy began tanking under Bush. Obama is simply perpetuating the problem because he is an inept puppet.

And neither leader promoted free speech or the freedom of the press.

This group is radical - but there are others - bicyclists that want their own lane, abortionists, tree huggers, anti-nukes, evangelists, the house AND the senate, LE, defense attorneys, white supremists, and according to the MSHP intelligence certain liberaterians.

It all makes the world go around. "

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maiximista wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:57 PM:

" Rgecke - I could jump all over what you said with enough scriptures from the Bible to gag you, but you still wouldn't agree, so, for the sake of not creating the same argument all over again, and in an effort to stay on-topic, I won't go there.

I believe God's word from cover to cover, and I use it to determine what is sin. I stand firmly on God's word and make no apology for it. That being said, one can take that stand without being mean-spirited or hate-filled towards others.

Westboro's approach is way off base and is a detriment to God's work on this earth, no matter how sincere they might be. "

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rgecke wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:50 PM:

" Byron said abortion is killing an innocent human being. This is utterly untrue.
Byron said Those that do abortions are killers . . . This is utterly untrue.
Byron said God hates gays. It is a sin. This is utterly untrue.

Churches that preach hate, or that teach that a fully natural sexual orentation is a sin, are wrong and should lose their tax exempt status and give back their tithe . . . to a gay pride organization of course.

I am not picking on anybody here, just correcting false statements. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:20 PM:

" limerick54 wrote "The folks that say you are like these "people" are wrong, while you are opinionated and unwilling to exhibit empathy for the position of others if it clashes with your ideology, you rarely (if ever) exhibit that kind of hatred.

Empathy has cuased a lot of problems whne it comes to law. It has nearly put the US in bankruptcy. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:18 PM:

" limerick54 wrote "Byron: The story is accurate saying that they spread their message of hate. . read the signs; they are full of hate. Simple enough for you?


In a moral relativist world, no it isnt simple. It floats their boat. It seems that should be enough for liberals. Oh yeah, but there is that hypocrisy thing. "

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devildog35 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:33 PM:

" I see a lot of " FREESPEACH" filled with hate, my question is this, "Where is all the anger towards muslims and their hate speach?" They want to cut our heads off if we do not convert. I have seen no such threat from these people. Just ignor them they'll be gone tomorow. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:18 PM:

" waiting said, "The dinosaurs drowned in the great flood because Noah wouldn't let them on the ark. hahahhaha I still laugh at that one. "


I wouldn't want them on my boat either. The pterodactyls would be flying around making a mess of the masts and snacking on all the warm-blooded grass eaters. It would be complete chaos! "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:15 PM:

" boscoe asked," Is Mac talking about the Freemasons- that cult that many Baptists like to belong to? "


Another good point, Boscoe. Baptists are Freemasons and Freemasons have secretly cracked the Davinci code. Bingo! You have a major secret right there! They've quite possibly implemented some type of ritual to celebrate that secret. Of course, I wouldn't know anything about that since it's all secretive. "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:14 PM:

" Mac - yep I just walked away. Oh, I get snubbed by the snobs but who cares, I don't. I finally realized that the stuff the preacher was preaching was so far fetched that I did not need to waste my time. The dinosaurs drowned in the great flood because Noah wouldn't let them on the ark. hahahhaha I still laugh at that one. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:42 AM:

" Is Mac talking about the Freemasons- that cult that many Baptists like to belong to? "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:40 AM:

" God hates Pride.

God hates Gluttony. "

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maiximista wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:40 AM:

" Again, I ask Mac to provide details to support his statement that "Much like the secret 'rituals and sayings' of Catholicism, similarly, the Baptists also have secret 'rituals and sayings.' "

And again, I say, if you will study the beliefs of this "church", you will find that they in no way reflect the beliefs of, nor have they been accepted into, any current Baptist organization worldwide.

If a dog walks by with a "Cow" sign on its back, you don't instantly decide it's a cow. Likewise, don't consider this group to hold Baptist beliefs just because they choose to use that name in their title.. "

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redblack564 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:40 AM:

" Go back to Kansas and spread your hate there Jayhawks !!!!! Go M-I-Z-Z-O-U "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:40 AM:

" waitingontheend said, "back when I use to go to church I was a Baptist"


Excuse me? You "were" a baptist? And you still have the ability to type? I thought it was like "blood in, blood out" with that religious group? Not even one broken finger? Not even a hammered pinky? "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:36 AM:

" maiximista said, "Mac - please share more about what you know about these "secret rituals and sayings" that the Baptists have. You have my complete attention."



no can do.... they are "secret" for a reason. "

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limerick54 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:34 AM:

" Byron: The story is accurate saying that they spread their message of hate. . read the signs; they are full of hate. Simple enough for you? The folks that say you are like these "people" are wrong, while you are opinionated and unwilling to exhibit empathy for the position of others if it clashes with your ideology, you rarely (if ever) exhibit that kind of hatred.

Has anyone else noticed how much Fred Phelps looks like the "demonic preacher character" from Poltergeist 3? Phelps: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_95272E7706U/SZulFuqkenI/AAAAAAAAB_w/SPyk6iE-VyI/s320/fred-phelps.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fosnez.blogspot.com/2009/02/this-is-sparta-karma.html&usg=__pj_suPeaHc1NgalzEIUkk-9Rvt8=&h=316&w=306&sz=27&hl=en&start=11&tbnid=BhtppvVjsRoqxM:&tbnh=117&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfred%2Bphelps%26hl%3Den

Poltergeist guy: http://campblood.org/Newblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/poltergeisttemple.jpg "

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MelodyH wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:33 AM:

" I fully support this groups right to both free speech and the right to protest no matter how hateful but to attack children and the dead, how cowardly. This is no way to be a city on a hill. Perhaps God does hate but he also loves and I surely do not see these people demonstrating that. Given a choice between a kind gracious person; regardless of religious beliefs, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, or a vonom spewing hatemonger wearing the guise of Christianity I know who I would choose to both be and to know. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:30 AM:

" Mac1974 "similarly, the Baptists also have secret "rituals and sayings."

Utterly untrue. "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:27 AM:

" No, Byron I don't hate you but find myself chuckling alot. :) "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:26 AM:

" Usually I agree with you Mac, but I have to ask the same question, back when I use to go to church I was a Baptist and I don't ever remember rituals or secret sayings. At least the Catholics got wined and dined every Sunday but not in the Baptist church, unless someone dies. Unless you are talking about baptism and getting dunked in water. I guess that could be considered some sort of chineese water torture. :) "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:25 AM:

" waitingontheend wrote "Hey Byron, you are the one calling people baby killers, preaching how God hates gays, talking about how much you hate Obama and want to start a revolution."

First, abortion is killing an innocent human being. Those that do abortions are killers whether or not the choice of word is "baby." Second, I do not say God hates gays. It is a sin. He will forgive them for it if they ask. I personally don't hate Obama. But he is a fool. His foolishness is putting us all at risk. The desire for self preservation is not hate. It is clear you hate me for what I say. So be it. "

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richg wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:24 AM:

" If the media outlets would ignore these types of groups they would slither away and disappear. But all media groups feel the need to pander to these fringe groups and as a result give them some sense of legitimacy. "

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maiximista wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:17 AM:

" Mac - please share more about what you know about these "secret rituals and sayings" that the Baptists have. You have my complete attention. I look foward to knowing more. "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:13 AM:

" gofish - maybe the baby eating thing has to do with stem cell research maybe. ??? "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:11 AM:

" gofish, said, " Personally, the "You will eat your babies" sign caught my attention. Anyone know what that's about? "


Much like the secret "rituals and sayings" of Catholicism, similarly, the Baptists also have secret "rituals and sayings." "

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122665 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:10 AM:

" I think these folks have better things to do rather than protest. Volunteer at soup kitchens, donate $ (their gas $) or food/clothing to the poor,.....use their time, energy and resources for the better of people...rather than promote hate and anger. "

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cjs wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:09 AM:

" Regardless what you think about homosexuality, my memory is that we are to preach the GOOD news, that God has provided the way to Him through the Jesus. At no time do I recall that we are told to preach a message of hate. Funny, I don't see the people with signs about how God hates proud looks, lying tongues, murderous hands, wicked hearts, and other such things as are found in Proverbs 6. Then there is aduletry and over-eating...but I guess nobody wants to get into a discussion of those. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:05 AM:

" Personally, the "You will eat your babies" sign caught my attention. Anyone know what that's about? "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:00 AM:

" Byron, I wasn't being sarcastic their message on the signs remind me of some of your post. That is the way you come off on some of your post. "

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maiximista wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:56 AM:

" Mac- After some study of this cult group, I learned that they have no ties to any Baptist organizations in the world. They have simply chosen that as part of their name. Boscoe is right, God hates sin, but He has taught us in His word that while we are to hate sinfulness by not endorsing or approving of it, we are to love our fellow man as much as we love our own selves.

God does not hate any man. The message on their signs is errant. "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:53 AM:

" Hey Byron, you are the one calling people baby killers, preaching how God hates gays, talking about how much you hate Obama and want to start a revolution. This group is up your alley. If God truly hates then he is not a very nice person after all. He might hate broccoli next. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:39 AM:

" God HATES sin. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:12 AM:

" I can't believe how badly this community is treating their fellow Baptists! "

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Jthomas wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:59 AM:

" Like it or not, God does hate certain things. Preaching what God hates is biblical, there is biblical proof for it. You dont have to agree with what God hates. Or even agree with the messengers of God's hate. So who is to blame, the message or the messengers? "

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january wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:51 AM:

" Byron W. wrote "It may well be hate but using the term in a news story may show a bias in itself. Maybe the reporter hates the group for its behavior. "

There is a sign in the picture that says GOD HATES YOU

The article states: known for preaching HATE of various groups

I dont see how this is a bias connections. The group very specifically states that God hates you if you are a certain way. Thats preaching hate. "

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bck wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:35 AM:

" "It may well be hate but using the term in a news story may show a bias in itself. Maybe the reporter hates the group for its behavior."

Seems to me that hate is the best way to describe what these nutjobs preach. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:33 AM:

" waitingontheend wrote "I wonder if Byron was there with them all their signs remind me of what Byron spews out on here all the time. I bet he is a secret member."

It is apparent that you are the same kind of person as the protesters simply with a different ideology. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:31 AM:

" hmarie775 wrote "I had to refrain myself from wanting to run over them this morning as they passed right in front my car when dropping my child off at school. Helias was able to chase them off the property with police. They are disgusting excuses for human beings."

Hate must be a virus. It is spreading. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:30 AM:

" "Tuesday's rain and wind did not stop members of a Kansas church, known for preaching hate of various groups based on their sexual orientation, from taking their message to various locations in Jefferson City."

It may well be hate but using the term in a news story may show a bias in itself. Maybe the reporter hates the group for its behavior. "

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hmarie775 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:19 AM:

" I had to refrain myself from wanting to run over them this morning as they passed right in front my car when dropping my child off at school. Helias was able to chase them off the property with police. They are disgusting excuses for human beings. "

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happy wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:15 AM:

" Speaking just for myself, I never said I hated these people jthomas I said they give us christians that do not believe in protesting hate a bad name. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:55 AM:

" People, why get riled up by a few nut jobs? There are no laws against radical beliefs. The other 363 days of the next year will probably be void of this. It's a moment in time. Don't empower these radicals by giving them anything more than their 15 minutes of infame. Besides God has a special place reserved for them. "

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bndyvcky wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:52 AM:

" Radical Christians ought to get their point across by other means. I see scripture was quoted in another comment and that's the way to go. They should consider the "whole word". "

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jthomas wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:45 AM:

" Oh no, dont close down the comments yet, not eveyone has told us how much they hate the hatemongers. Spewing hatred for the hatemongers is still hate. Ironic, isnt it? "

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Boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:40 AM:

" I think we've had about enough opinions on this story now. It it time to close this one too.

Shut down all stories after 3-4 comments. We certainly do not want people to communicate with each other too much. That might lead to discussions that actually go somewhere. "

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waitingontheend wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:33 AM:

" I wonder if Byron was there with them all their signs remind me of what Byron spews out on here all the time. I bet he is a secret member. "

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devildog35 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:24 AM:

" Westboro Baptist Church members are misguided,radical and offencive, but at least they are not strapping on bomb belts and bombing innocent people, or going into military installations and killing people, or blowing up buildings. They are protected by the first amendment,like it or not, THEY are U.S. citizens. People should pay closer attention to all the muslim radical factions here in the U.S. that know how to be silent and deadly. bubbahotep,( not only likes Egyptoligy) but he is correct, ignor them. "

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jcgirl5 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:23 AM:

" sandhouse, while I don't disagree with the fact these people want attention from the media, they were in town on Tuesday and the certification in the murder case is today, wednesday. "

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jtownhomeboy wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:12 AM:

" These are the most mis-guided bunch of people I have ever seen. I remember them protesting Carnahan's memorial service. They have no class, no shame. I hope like heck that they are no longer allowed to protest at soldier's funerals, those days are tough enough on a family. These people continue to travel to our community, does anyone understand why? Is it simply because we are the capitol? I hope the local hotel owners read this and don't allow them to stay on their property, if so, maybe we need to protest their rooms the next time they are in town! "

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jthomas wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:12 AM:

" Happy, I wonder if Muslims feel the same way about their extremists the same way you feel about yours? There are Muslims that claim peace, but there are those that claim jihad. Here we see "christians" proclaiming God's hatred toward certain attitudes and behaviors, while others focus on God's love and mercy. But yet most would clump all Muslims into the extremist category while separating themselves from any extremist element of their own "religion". Like Bob said, "How does it feel?" You gotta give the members of the Westboro Baptist Church one thing...they aren't lukewarm. "

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happy wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:45 AM:

" bubbahotep I agree with you, ignore them and they will go away, all they want is media attention. It is sad they are using God's name to spread hate, any church or religion that says it is ok to tell people that "God Hates You" is not a religion I want any part of. I am a christian but this gives us christian's a very bad name because not all of us feel this way. "

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bubbahotep wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:52 AM:

" Free speech is a right given to us by our founding fathers. That being said, give me a break.

These hate spewing, misguided people should stay in Kansas with Dorothy and Toto.If they are Christians, then
Matthew 7,1 Judge not, that ye be not judged, should be familiar.

Ignore them, and they will, I hope, go away. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:49 AM:

" These hatemongers go wherever there are a gathering of news cameras. Being that today is the hearing in the Olten case there is lots of media in town. Think flies to feces..... "

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