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Teen charged with murder of Elizabeth Olten

15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, seen above in a screenshot taken from her MySpace page, is charged in the death of Elizabeth Olten, 9.

Updated with additional details

By Jeff Haldiman, News Tribune
with additional reporting by The AP
Published: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:40 PM CST
A Cole County Grand Jury has indicted 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante on a charge of first-degree murder in slaying of Elizabeth Olten.

The grand jury indictment Wednesday accuses Bustamante of killing the 9-year-old girl by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her on Oct. 21 -- the day Elizabeth went missing.

She also is charged with armed criminal action for using a knife in the attack.

The charges in adult court were filed just hours after Bustamante had been certified to stand trial as an adult.  A judge entered a not guilty plea on Bustamante’s behalf and referred her to the public defender’s office.

Cole County Sheriff Greg White said Bustamante would be held at a different, undisclosed location.

Certified to stand trial as an adult

"She wanted to know what it felt like." That was the reason given by the investigator who interviewed Alyssa Bustmante, 15, after last month's death of Elizabeth Olten, 9.

In an adult certification hearing Wednesday morning, Cole County Judge Jon Beetem found the nature of the crime Bustamante committed was violent enough to warrant her being placed in adult custody.

Upon the judge's ruling, Cole County Sheriff Greg White arrested Bustamante on the charge of first-degree murder, placed her in custody and led her out of the courtroom.

Bustamante, wearing an orange jail jumpsuit, showed little emotion during the hearing and did not speak.

Samantha Green, attorney for the Cole County Juvenile Authority, called several witnesses. Among them was Jefferson City High School Principal Jeff Dodson, who told the court Alyssa's grades were As and Bs prior to this incident. He said she attended school on a regular basis and was in school each day before Elizabeth's death.

Dodson said Alyssa had no behavioral problems, according to their records. He also said he had just casual contact with the girl, and considered her to be an average 15-year-old.

Also called to testify was Bill Heberle with the Missouri Division of Youth Services, who talked about what services the state might have available to treat Alyssa.

Attorney Kurt Valentine, who was appointed by the court to represent Alyssa during the juvenile process, had Heberle talk about how they would work to try and find a care program to fit what Alyssa would need, if she were kept as a juvenile offender.

Green also called David Cook to the stand. He is the chief juvenile officer for the Cole County's 19th Circuit Court.

Cook said his office had been able to determine Bustamante had been in Cole County for six years, living with her grandmother who had been her guardian since 2001.

He said that, until this incident, there had been no referrals on Alyssa and his office had no contact with her.

In September 2007, Cook said they found that Alyssa had spent 10 days in Mid-MO Mental Health Center after a suicide attempt, and then was treated through Pathways Community Behavioral Healthcare, dealing with depression.

He said Alyssa and her family were very involved and had attended treatment regularly. She had been prescribed Prozac for her depression.

Cook said there was an episode last year, while she attended the Simonsen 9th Grade Center where she delved into the Goth culture, which is typically associated with dark clothing and makeup as well as a fascination with vampires. He said the family had expressed concerns about Alyssa getting on the Internet and finding information about Goth activity, but that eventually stopped.

Cook also said Alyssa spent time in the woods without permission.

Based on all this information, Cook said, it would be his recommendation that Alyssa be certified to stand trial as an adult.

The last witness Green called was Sgt. David Rice, an investigator with the Missouri Highway Patrol, who interviewed Alyssa after she was taken into custody.

Valentine argued that Rice's testimony would be more relevant to the process of finding innocence or guilt in this case and that was not what the certification hearing was about.

But Green argued that Rice's testimony provided information to help the court make its decision, saying it showed the violence of this crime.

Rice testified Alyssa told him she had dug two holes the Friday prior to the killing, and did lead authorities to Elizabeth's body.

In closing arguments, an emotional Green told Judge Beetem that Alyssa, regardless of her need for rehabilitation, had committed a serious crime and that if left in the juvenile system would be allowed to walk out at the age of 21.

"I don't know what type of rehabilitation we can offer," Green said.

Valentine argued this case puts us in uncharted waters.

"None of us want to be here," he said. "The most telling thing we've found is we don't know what to do."

Further Background: Officials were called about 7 p.m. on Oct. 21, after Elizabeth Olten didn't make it to her home in the 200 block of LoMo Drive (Route D) near St. Martins after leaving a friend's home in the 600 block about 6:15 p.m.

Sheriff's deputies, firefighters and volunteers began searching for the girl quickly, and continued that search Oct. 22 and 23, until Elizabeth's body was found about 2:40 p.m. Oct. 23.

"It was in the woods, several hundred yards away from the houses,” Sheriff Greg White told reporters after the discovery. "We had been (searching) through that area more than once.

"The body was very well concealed.”

White told reporters that Elizabeth knew the suspect, who is not related. White said that physical and written evidence led investigators to question the suspect, who then led them to the location where the body was found.

10 A.M. POST: 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante has been certified to stand trial as an adult in the homicide of Elizabeth Olten.

Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem ruled this morning that the crime was serious and vicious and the state had no adequate facilities or services to treat the teenage suspect if she were to remain in the juvenile court system.

The girl was identified in court by her juvenile defense attorney only as Alyssa. She was immediately arrested on an adult charge of first-degree murder following the judge’s ruling.

Earlier coverage

Cole County's Circuit Court has set some extra security measures for this morning's hearing to determine whether the 15-year-old accused of killing Elizabeth Olten, 9, will be tried as an adult.

The teenager, whose name and gender have not been released by police, is accused of first-degree murder in the death of Elizabeth Olten. Law officers say the teen led them to Elizabeth's body in a wooded area near St. Martins.

The teen has been held in juvenile custody since last month. Cole County Judge Jon Beetem is scheduled to hear arguments on whether the teen should be prosecuted as an adult.

Under Missouri law, children as young as 12 can be charged as adults with first-degree murder. Ten factors are considered in deciding how to treat juveniles accused of crimes. All must be evaluated, but Beetem does not need to weigh them equally.

Among the factors: the seriousness of the crime; whether viciousness, force or violence was involved; whether people or property were affected; the suspect's criminal record and background; and the individual's age, sophistication and maturity.

If Judge Beetem determines the teen should be tried as an adult, then the Cole County prosecutor would have to file charges and a probable cause statement against the suspect for the case to be continued -- the same procedures as required in all other criminal cases.

Court officials have planned extra security measures for the hearing, which is open to a limited number of citizens. Cell phones, laptop computers, tape recorders and cameras all have been banned from the courthouse and those who attend the hearing can't re-enter the courtroom once it has started. Law officers at a security checkpoint in the court basement also will be screening more items.



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Thanks.

lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 25, 2009 3:10 PM:

" the subject here is murder "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 25, 2009 12:26 PM:

" AB was on antidepressents...Prozac...look it up and see the side effects...that alone is a huge sign that doctors shouldve been watching for. Next thing do we know what pushed her to depression? Do we know all the facts of what made her snap? A child lost her life but lets learn from this so this child didnt die in vain. I also agree that AB does need the hardest punishment the law will allow. Reguardless she had little reguards for another life. But with that said Im saying we need to change the subject at least for one day and give thanks for the things in our lives that need to be given thanks. Sometimes it takes reaching out to others to stopthis From happening "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 25, 2009 12:23 PM:

" Teachers were asked how AB was in class and they said she was a lovely girl with great grades. That she was respectful in the classroom. What signs would you get from that. She spoke out to a friend but if that friend doesnt tell anyone about what was said to an adult which adult will know what was going on. As for the Myspace do you know how many teens have a Myspace page that they can check at school. I personally dont have internet at home so how do I control what my child may or maynot be doing on internet at the school. I have to trust the school is watching while my child is in their care. "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 25, 2009 12:21 PM:

" lumpsinthesandbox there is a precious little girl who's life was taken from the earth much too quickly. Her family wont ever see her beautiful face again. And yet we keep talking about all the evil which inturn does nothing to bring any good from this death. We need to look at how things can be changed to never allow this to happen again to another child. We also need to pray for the other family as well. Everyone is quick to judge but not all signs are seen by the adults because teens are very good a hiding things. We have to be prepared to ask the proper questions and get to know who our children are hanging out with. "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 25, 2009 10:13 AM:

" ndnlvngcherokee - I thank God everynight that she didn't kill my babies. "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 25, 2009 10:07 AM:

" Thanksgiving may be tomorrow, but I don't know what "good" things can come out of this subject.
Don't forget, Elizabeth won't be celebrating Thanksgiving with her family. Not her choice, because all of her choices were taken, brutally, away.
Nor will Alyssa Bustamante. She made her choices - and they were horribly evil ones.

There was not, could not, have been "extensive supervision". "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 25, 2009 9:42 AM:

" With hearing so much bad lately in the news and with Thanksgiving close approaching tomorrow can everyone please list at least one thing they are thankful for?? Personally I can list many...family, friends, life, having a home in which to live, a job, and I also thank the troops for defending our freedoms.... "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 25, 2009 9:41 AM:

" Many try to put blame on others...what needs to be looked at is most children who are 15yrs old act one way in front of parents and adults and act another way in front of their closest friends. We see the signs now because they are all put out front for us to see. At the age of 15yrs old most children dont have full time supervision and alot of those same teens are the ones babysitting for people to go out on friday night. So think now how well do you truelly know the one watching your child? I personally know a person who had the grandmother do daycare for her and she spoke very highly and said the children loved her. "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 25, 2009 9:09 AM:

" boxer - I wondered the same thing. I think they also had a pool table. "

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boxergal wrote on Nov 25, 2009 8:47 AM:

" And another thought. Grandma and grandpa's home looked like paradise. Sometimes we shuffle our kids off to play with others because its convenient. I always checked out my kid's friends and parents. I have to wonder how much time Elizabeth spent there because it was convenient and probably a lot of fun for her, being they had a pool and horses. Sadly, paradise turned into hell. "

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boxergal wrote on Nov 25, 2009 8:44 AM:

" You know, grandma (I think) can't be much older than me. In looking at some of those you tubes, I can tell ya, those kids look a bit out of control. But who knows. You would think that if she had troubles with her own daughter, she would be more alert to what goes on with the granddaughter. But maybe she had her hands full, what with babysitting and all. I think it was probably a great gesture that she went to California and brought the kids home but sometimes its just too much. I know I couldn't raise 4 kids (I think there were four). "

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122665 wrote on Nov 25, 2009 7:45 AM:

" BTW, Grandma's son-in-law is in prison and daughter is a 'wanderer'....granddaughter attempted suicide and had issues resulting in an young innocent life being taken - maybe the other grandchildren need to be evaluated to ensure that being with the grandparents is in their best interest. Maybe it's not. Just a thought!

I believe Allyssa should be made an example of so others in our community who may seek the 'thrill of murder' will think twice before committing a horrific crime. If there are others that feel this need for thrill - hopefully, they seek help!

Parents need to be more involved in their kids' lives! "

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122665 wrote on Nov 25, 2009 7:42 AM:

" Agreeing w/earlier post - where was Grandma! I too read where she supervised Allyssa extensively but as stated and seen on Nancy Grace - she was not always supervised. A friend has now come forward to say Allyssa discussed murder but the friend didn't take her seriously. I hope this comes as an eye-openner to all - friends if your friend talks about murder - take it seriously and report it immediately. Parents/Grandparents - if your child/grandchild is acting mysteriously - take more time to be involved in their lives and get help or get additional help - don't put your head in the sand! An young innocent girl paid w/her life - that is not fair nor is it acceptable. "

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Justanumber wrote on Nov 24, 2009 5:28 PM:

" Byron W. this whole thing has hurt our city and surrounding communties but has woke us up to. If it happened to my children you would have to hold me back from hurting whoever did it. So I'm stuck between my believing and human sole. So I'll leave it up to you :) "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 24, 2009 12:19 PM:

" Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:11 AM:

" Social workers are useless. What needs to get done doesn't take money it takes discipline. We need to crack some heads. "

Old time hockey...Eddie Shore!!!

:>) "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:38 AM:

" ndnlvngcherokee wrote "And everyone mark the date I agree with one of Byron's statements...that sometimes just showing compassion doesnt work sometimes it takes tough love and a boot in the butt to make kids change and listen."

It is all coming together nicely!!!!!!! "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:37 AM:

" douglas12 wrote "If your point was in response that a broken home had nothing to do with these kinds of acts is cool and I agree with you,

If you think it had nothing to do with it, you are more than sadly mistaken. "

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bsnoltth wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:29 AM:

" boscoe wrote
"Bsnoltth, please tell me how Dungeons and Dragons and other role-playing games advance the cause of Christianity or worship Him?"

Hah! Where did I say it did?

Are you saying that anything that doesn't further that cause is evil? That would be a VERY broad statement... and very closeminded.

And I don't believe you truly believe that, considering you believe society should allow gays to marry. Or are you very selective on what you hear and believe from the church? "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:16 AM:

" Justanumber wrote "Byron W. so your saying because I won't judge that's why society is the way it is now?"

Not you specifically but being part of the group that refuses to do so, yes. Juding ispart of doing your duty. It is your responsibility as a member of scoiety. Because people refuse to make judgments people are getting away with things they should not. It eliminates the standards by which people can assess their own behavior. And society gradually sinks further ito depravity. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:11 AM:

" pioneers wrote "Social workers are over-worked, mental health services are having their funding cut. There's not enough money or resources to do the work that needs to be done."

Social workers are useless. What needs to gbe done doesn't take money it takes discipline. We need to crack some heads. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 23, 2009 10:08 AM:

" Footloose wrote "Cole county is unique in that a special statute (section 545.473) removes the automatic change of venue available in other counties. In Cole county, a change of venue is only available for cause."

Technically true. But we know why it is there. It will have no impact on this case. "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 23, 2009 8:38 AM:

" She dug the graves when school was out.
Where was grandma or grandpa? On one of the news sites it said it grandma extensively supervised Alyssa. This would have taken hours....
Where were her brothers during this?
On the youtube site where she had posted the video's of the pool, the fence, and the basement.... I didn't see an adult checking with them at all. "

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Footloose wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:57 PM:

" Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, about the defense attorney not needing grounds for a change of venue because:

"he does not need to. Cole County still has a population of less than 75,000. Any claim for change of venue is automatic. http://tr.im/FxQl"

This is incorrect. Cole county is unique in that a special statute (section 545.473) removes the automatic change of venue available in other counties. In Cole county, a change of venue is only available for cause.



Online Editor's note: I shortened the above URL because the long one was causing formatting problems on this page. It works the same. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 22, 2009 5:05 PM:

" fishing01 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 3:25 PM:
" OH, and most of all, I am mad because you all want to tar and feather this girl. How civilized of you. "

Tar and Feather Alyssa? This may be your best idea you have had thus far. "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 4:44 PM:

" Mine too. I can't wrap my brain around it. Why these two?? "

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pioneers wrote on Nov 22, 2009 4:26 PM:

" fishing01 I'm mad and confused.

It's like we just threw away 2 human beings. Both of their dads are in prison. How much help did both of these familes get?

There is so much about this story that rattles my brain.

Tar and feathering Alyssa is the easy solution. That's how we can ignore what caused this.

I don't want to have a witch hunt and blame anyone. Social workers are over-worked, mental health services are having their funding cut. There's not enough money or resources to do the work that needs to be done. But we as a community must figure out what happend and at least try to make changes. Otherwise all this pontificating is hooey. "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 22, 2009 3:44 PM:

" fishing01, civilized enough to KNOW that our Nation has laws that allow for a person to be held accountable for crimes they commit. "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 3:25 PM:

" OH, and most of all, I am mad because you all want to tar and feather this girl. How civilized of you. "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 3:23 PM:

" Its could all be labeled a cult if you practice a religion that worships a deity. Satan, Mary, Joseph Smith. The LDS infuriates me because my family was LDS. A cult does not have to be devil worship. I somehow doubt that if Alyssa was wrapped up in some serious devil worship. Like Pioneer said, it was probably a phase. Do you have kids?? "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 22, 2009 3:14 PM:

" fishing01, you can say Catholicism is a cult, yet when someone says that the Church of Later Day Saints is a cult that that infuriates you, but you can say worshipping the devil isn't a cult. No need in discussing it, we woudn't agree.
I don't take someone telling me that threats have been made if kids open their mouths when a child has been murdered as necessarily rumor.
cj650, what message is that? "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 3:09 PM:

" ....attracted to each other. Alyssa could have killed anyone, her grandmother babysat. The whole thing was like two trains on a collision course. If you don't want to raise your kids people, give them up. Most of all I am mad because people are just pulling stuff out of mid air because its just pure gossip and this area is known for that. I all makes me sick. "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 3:07 PM:

" You will have to forgive me, I am mad. I am mad because Elizabeth's father was not there for her but chose a life of crime. I am mad because the same happened to Alyssa's (yes she has a name, not just AB) parents chose to abandon her. I am mad because no one was there for Elizabeth that night. No one came to pick her up and folks, that driveway alone was a long ways for a little girl. I am mad because Alyssa fell through the cracks and someone in mental health didn't follow through with treatment. I think these two girls had more in common than you can ever imagine. Its like they were attracted.... "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 22, 2009 2:59 PM:

" douglas12, whether Lincoln is predominately black or white is beside the point, what I asked boscoe is which skin color gets the pass on offenses?
I'm not getting the issue of a Catholic with you, I'm not on here to argue with anyone and that would be one. But I will say this, people who worship satin and practice it, its not their heads that are 'mentally ill', its their soul.
As for speculating, not doing that either but I do listen to what I am told.
Onceajay, what I was told would be nothing the Sheriff wouldn't already know about. Someone reported it at school, because I was told the school couldn't substantiate the threat is why the student wasn't suspended. "

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cj650 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 12:25 PM:

" onceajay and fishing01 - Very well said!!! Everyone should read these posts again and THINK about the message in them "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 12:01 PM:

" ....of time, it clouds the issue. I read where someone said she came into the house with bloody clothes on. NO where have I read this in the news accounts and I have read most of them. Rumors, nothing worse. "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 12:00 PM:

" as a cult. Devil worship or not. Its a phase, Kristy. Its something these kids can identify with one another with. Its usually over in about a year. Kids are strange creatures. The best you can do is keep your eye on them, look at their myspace and search their room. If you think they have gotten too deep into this stuff, you get them help, which obviously the grandparents did. I have a feeling this is nothing more than rumor mongering, which good old JC is famous for. Its titilating, and exciting for the bored members of a small town. If you know something, tell the police but the rumor mongering is a wasteof... "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 11:57 AM:

" You have kids Kristy???? We do. One. When he was in the 8th or 9th grade he would draw skeleton's and such on his notebook. Even a devil face (gasp). Its a phase some of these kids go through. He is now an educated (which is more I can say for a lot on these forums) productive member of society. I delt with it. I didn't like it. I watched him close. Cults entail every walk of life. I have hear people refer to the latter day saint religion as a cult (which enfuriates me). Catholicism is a cult. Any group of people that get together and worship can be viewed as..... "

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Onceajay wrote on Nov 22, 2009 11:01 AM:

" Kristy-I do have a question for you (and all others who have stated "information" and "facts" on here) If you have talked to kids who are terrified to speak out of fear of reprisals from this Satanic cult and you know people who know the true Alyssa, I'm assuming that you, as a responsible, law abiding, God-fearing adult who shares their fears, have gone to Sheriff White with your concerns so he can follow that avenue of investigation; am I right on this assumption? Or are you, like many others on this forum, merely engaging in Jeff City's fav sport: repeating rumor and innuendo as "fact"? If not, then shame on you and stop posting. If so, good job! "

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Onceajay wrote on Nov 22, 2009 10:55 AM:

" Kristy- I didn't respond to you because i just read your responses. I don't spend my life putting my opinion out there and engaging in arguments with people I've never met because when the rubber meets the road, my opinion isn't worth more than a hill of beans in the bigger world. Yes, I understand the community is sad, angry and frightened. My point is that that is being portrayed in a harsh and backward way. I believe fervently that I can feel sorrow for Elizabeth and Alyssa without condoning for a second what Alyssa did. The people casting aspersions on Elizabeth's family are especially horrible. And I was commenting on the hypocrisy of some professed Christians' posts. "

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Justanumber wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:26 AM:

" Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:48 PM:

" Justanumber wrote "I WILL NOT JUDGE ONLY GOD CAN! "

Sorry it is your public duty to judge. Thosee that abdicate that duty are part of the reason for the depravity of society. "

Byron W. so your saying because I won't judge that's why society is the way it is now? I can't be a Doctor or Nurse either but I'm glad their are some people out there that can do this otherwise eveyone would be the same. Sorry just can't do it. "

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douglas12 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:08 AM:

" I don't know anything about this gril or her ''cult'', however I just know that the majority of kids confused or even with very disturbing interest are not capable of acts such as this. Why can't we just accept that this was a horrible event and there is no set reason other than a very very disturbed child with mental problems? We all feel horrible for thee families involved on both sides and hope the best for them. Speculating about this 15yr olds motives and what led to this or other friends of hers is just nonsense that helps nothing. "

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douglas12 wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:04 AM:

" predominately black Univeristy?
Sorry Kristy but Lincoln is more white than black for many years now. But yes is is a historically black university.

I see many cults around and they are for the most part christian cults. Nothing irks me more than these churchs that have their own schools with children from 5-18 yrs old working towards GED's. Pathetic. Just look to the likes of these Lay ministers or many catholic priest. Child rape pops up in the church many times, so therefore I assume I am just to consider all people of faith and followers of Christianity as posssibly following these monsterous acts? No that would be stupid. "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 22, 2009 1:02 AM:

" pioneers wrote on Nov 22, 2009 12:25 AM:

" So who is the leader of this "cult" as you refer to satanic worship?

As I refered to it as? What I said was "As another said to me today about this (more than one has said it too) its a "cult" "

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pioneers wrote on Nov 22, 2009 12:25 AM:

" So who is the leader of this "cult" as you refer to satanic worship? Cults have leaders who have something to gain from roping in followers.

Is there a place where someone can go to join? Cults have places where the members meet and do what the leader wants them to do.

Are there costs associated with being part of this group? If there isn't, it's not a cult. A cult thrives on the money and resources of the members. If there's no money changing hands it's not a cult, it's a group of confused people, going through a phase. "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 22, 2009 12:22 AM:

" 'boscoe', when you say that one skin color (of students) are held a little bit accountable for offenses and the other skin color (of other students) is given a pass because of their skin color, don't accuse me of wanting to stick a needle in a 'mentally ill' (as you claim) murderer.
You post how "sad" some of these posters are regarding the murder of a little 9 year old girl because they want Justice served. Really? Which skin color are you saying gets a "pass" for offenses in a predominately black Univeristy?
Nancy Grace is also giving this case very good coverage. "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 22, 2009 12:06 AM:

" 'boscoe', your answer is yes and mine is you posted students of one skin color get a pass about the shooting at Lincoln...who is casting stones?
Don't put words in my mouth, I was happy as could be when the Judge said alyssa would stand trial as an ADULT, thats different than not wanting a trial as you tried to construe my words to be.
Pioneers, no, worship of the devil isn't a 'phase'. As another said to me today about this (more than one has said it too) its a "cult".
Fox news had a very good video also, still on there as of tonight.
Forensic Psychologist, there is a difference between 'sick' or 'mental ill' and criminally insane. "

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pioneers wrote on Nov 21, 2009 11:33 PM:

" Worshipping the devil is a phase, it's not a religion. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 21, 2009 11:27 PM:

" The other answer is that you don't even know a tenth of the facts, but yet you want to stick a needle in a mentally-ill 15-year old girl without having a trial or trying to find out any more facts or to hear anything more than the very weak news coverage that local media has.

Kudos to KRCG for working to dig further. They had a nice piece on tonight's news seeking to find more answers. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 21, 2009 11:24 PM:

" Kristy, my answer is yes. "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 21, 2009 11:01 PM:

" douglas12, my questions were addressed to boscoe and onceajay, are you answering for them since they don't seem to be able to?
Before you tell me to get off the Christianity stuff, learn how to spell the word.
Obviously you don't talk to kids that know the girl and even hung out a few times with her if you think kids and even adults don't worship the devil instead of God in this World.
Or maybe you don't even know there has been student at school who has said if anyone talks they will get killed, I was told this by a student who does know both him and the almost 16 year old charged with Elizabeth's murder. "

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douglas12 wrote on Nov 21, 2009 4:58 PM:

" J.C. where I agree with you people in this community want to go way over board when some talk about the death penalty and such, however to even compare her to this Olten child is pretty off base. If your point was in response that a broken home had nothing to do with these kinds of acts is cool and I agree with you, but not to say that the Olten child could have followed. We have a world of children that are from so called broken homes, however this does not happen everyday. Broken homes? A home can be just as dysfunctional with one, two, none, or church going christian parents. "

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douglas12 wrote on Nov 21, 2009 4:54 PM:

" Kirsty it is not about labeling everyone as backwoods hicks and bigots, although many around here are. it is fine to have a different view with me or anyone else about what you think this CHILD deserves. But let me just say this has nothing to do with ridiculousness of if she was following the devil. Get over the chritianity stuff with everything people. This was a sick messed up minded child, agree she does not need to ever be back in society, but I sure as heck don't think it is anything to do with God. "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 21, 2009 1:42 AM:

" boscoe wrote on Nov 20, 2009 8:29 PM:

" Many of the posters here continue to reinforce the Jefferson City stereotype that people here are backwards bigoted hicks. I find if sad that most are proud to be the way they are. They actually LIKE being so close-minded and prejudicial. "

boscoe also wrote on Nov 20, 2009 3:37 PM: (about the shooting at Lincoln University)
"These are just evil people- probably outsiders going to college or being brought in by evil Larry Rice"
And you call some of these postings closed minded because we want to see justice done when a child is murdered? "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 21, 2009 1:37 AM:

" Onceajay, have you thought when you read these posts that its a community that is upset a young child was murdered and maybe some in the community don't appreciate that?
What is with the National spotlight you refer to? Just wondering because I have a friend in Intelligence and was told with this being in the National spotlight that people with businesses and things are worried how this murder will reflect on them and Jeff City.
Is that what you mean?
boscoe, how does wanting justice in a first degree murder case of a young child define bigoted? Or how does wanting the full sentence possible for that murder considered prejudicial or close minded? "

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bluenurse wrote on Nov 21, 2009 12:30 AM:

" Boscoe & OnceaJay: Take a look at the posts on STL.com regarding Alyssa. Some are very similar to those here but many are downright disturbing.

I can understand the JC posts - many people participated in the search, many people knew Elizabeth, Alyssa, or their families. However, that's not the case where I live.

Some of the posters on the STL blogs can barely write a coherent sentence - & we're in the big city:)

Have a good weekend. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 20, 2009 8:29 PM:

" Many of the posters here continue to reinforce the Jefferson City stereotype that people here are backwards bigoted hicks. I find if sad that most are proud to be the way they are. They actually LIKE being so close-minded and prejudicial. "

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Onceajay wrote on Nov 20, 2009 8:11 PM:

" I don't know whether to be worried, saddened, offended or amused at some of the comments on here. Many of the professed Christians are making some decidedly unChristian posts. Some are "certain" of psychiatric diagonses after saying, "I'm no psychiatrist...." All I know is that national spotlight is passing over the Jefferson City area right now and the impression going out, based on this blog, would have the nation see the community as unsympathetic, harsh, judgmental and, based on some of the spelling, vocabulary, and grammar in many posts, of lower intelligence. I hope the greater world will understand that the posters on this site do not represent a true cross section of the area. God help us if they do. "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 20, 2009 6:59 PM:

" jc in jc, your comments are absolutely deplorable, about how sad you think the concerned community is, Elizabeth's family, let alone try to prejudge what she may or may have done when she got older. Something no one will ever know because the little girl was brutally murdered, incase you haven't grasped that fact.
talk about a degenerate "

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jc.in.jc wrote on Nov 20, 2009 6:36 PM:

" It makes me sad to see the way this "fine" community is speaking of this young 15 year old. Please recall that although you seem to have risen Miss Olten to a level of sainthood she also came from a very low class family....a degenerate, law-breaking father with obviously poor genetics as evidenced in her brother, also a degenerate. They are both now "being housed by the state". For all we know, Miss Olten could have followed in their footsteps, just as Miss Bustamonte was possibly infuenced by her background. "

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sunworshiper wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:54 PM:

" In response to wo_jogirl: who said ~ "Why can't it be accepted that some people are evil and some people are not?" See my post below ~ we ALL have evil in us from Adam & Eve on down. We have all been given a "choice"....hence the "tightrope" I was speaking of. We all have the choice of doing good or bad....We just need to pray that the good will eventually win.... "

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sunworshiper wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:36 PM:

" Has anyone seen the Editorial comment in todays paper? WHY? Why did the 15 yr. old commit murder? When asked why she (Alyssa) did it, she responded, to see what it was likeI am sure all of you who had Bible School or any religious schooling remember what Eve said when God asked her why they ate the applecause they wanted to see what it was like.. Do you think the snake (Satan), might have encouraged Alyssa to do the same? We are all walking a fine line between the Light and the Dark..Alyssa fell off the tight rope, most likely from the same source that Eve fell from the tightrope. "

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TransplantFrom7 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 4:57 PM:

" Many have commented back and forth about Alyssa Bustamante possibly getting off under the "Not Guilty By Reason of Insantity or Mental Defect" and that is a reasonable concern.

I am not an attorney, but I do know that one thing is clear. Alyssa is a sociopath, she is permanently damaged goods. Some feel sorry for her while others feel differently. One or more people here even posted that is was too bad that her suicide attempt in 2007 didn't succeed.

Simply put, if she is convicted, she will never see the light of day. If not, she will be in an institution forever...same result. "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 20, 2009 1:35 PM:

" boscoe, the sick reality is that not all are Christians and worship our Lord, some choose to worship the devil himself in some sick satanic worship and practices. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 20, 2009 1:07 PM:

" Bsnoltth, please tell me how Dungeons and Dragons and other role-playing games advance the cause of Christianity or worship Him? "

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douglas12 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 12:30 PM:

" Bs, in refernce to DnD. recall in the 80's when the cartoon came out and was so popular for a few weeks anyways before it was labeled demonic. Funny how in reality that just wasn't that long ago. Still a few of those same people around when things like Harry Potter or the Golden Compass came out. I know of more than one set of parents that went to more than one church around that was speaking against letting children read the books or see the movies. "

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douglas12 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 12:27 PM:

" NDV, agree with most of what you said especially in refernce to children not having manners and respect. I have a hard time with my daughter and her friends from the stand point I expect to be called Mr. last name. But this is most parents fault for thinking it is okay for kids to call parents adult friends and whatever by first names.

I will say I do not agree with one or two parents making things much better. This girl is not a product of her upbringing. For someone to be capable of this there is just some serious wrong brain patterns going on. "

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Bsnoltth wrote on Nov 20, 2009 11:30 AM:

" boscoe wrote
"Dungeons and Dragons may be over in the mainstream, but there is a HUGE subculture that participates in role-playing, 2nd life-type virual reality worlds.
Wake up and realize what is going on in the world of today's teenagers."

Actually DnD is still very mainstream. It is a very lucrative business.

It's also hilarious to see people call it, or anything like it, evil. Ignorance is bliss... or not. "

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Grace wrote on Nov 20, 2009 11:17 AM:

" If you can go on-line - in 1994 in western New York - Eric Smith (13) kills (4) year old Derrick Robie because Smith said he enjoyed it. He comes up for parole every 2 years since that time. It is very chilling reading what went on in the mind of Smith. I think he was given 9 years to life. "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 20, 2009 11:14 AM:

" happy - thanks for letting me know, that was really bothering me
I do agree with rabbit, she had to have come into the house a mess "

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happy wrote on Nov 20, 2009 11:07 AM:

" lumpsinthesandbox KRCG reported last night that that was a mistake, they did not take her to the hospital that night but instead she was sent to the hospital the day or so after she was taken into custody at the juvenile center. "

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sillyrabbit wrote on Nov 20, 2009 10:46 AM:

" lump - if this was done the way as described in this article "strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her" I can't imagine AB didn't return home a bloody, dirty mess. Plus, surely they knew Elizabeth was with her at some point and then was missing upon her return. It seems like there was a cover-up going on to me by the grandparents. Also, it's been said that they weren't cooperative at all with the police. "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 20, 2009 10:34 AM:

" Is anyone else curious as to what the grandparents knew or suspected (or when)?

From krcg: On Wed 21st, (day of murder)
"Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital" "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:51 AM:

" " pioneers wrote " gofish, I think you're wrong. I think there are more Alyssas. Hopefully not in our community, but there could be. Basically she was a serial killer who got caught the first time. Or let's hope this was the first time. "

My previous post was suppose to say I agree with Pioneers on this one. ( I read wrong andI posted I agreed with gofish) my apologies.

I agree with Pioneers here. Serial killers are defined as killing 3 or more over a period of time.
with 2 graves dug, it seems like a very feasible theory. "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:44 AM:

" And everyone mark the date I agree with one of Byrons statements...that sometimes just showing compassion doesnt work sometimes it takes tough love and a boot in the butt to make kids change and listen. Children of today have gotten an attitude that they deserve to be handed whatever they want and dont have to work for it. That they can do or say what they want without anything being said. In my home it doesnt matter if its my children or yours if they talk to the adults or others with disrespect they get it back in return. I DO NOT put up with it. Its called manners and respect! "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:41 AM:

" pioneers wrote:" The lack of caring parents in the life of the accused may be a factor. Many have posted comments that they didn't have 2 parents in the home and turned out fine. That doesn't mean everyone in single family homes comes out as well as you did. Everyone is different."

There also have been many from families with 2 parents who didnt turn out well. We can always blame it on the fact of there being 2 parents in the home. Sometimes its better for one or both of the parents to be removed from the home. She was living with her grandparents whom they say were making sure she was getting syc treatment. Sounds like they were trying to do anythingTheyCould "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:31 AM:

" " pioneers wrote

"That's the most ludicrous thing I've heard on this forum. Serial killers are very very rare. A female serial killer is even MORE rare."

I agree with Gofish here. Serial killers are defined as killing 3 or more over a period of time.
with 2 graves dug, it seems like a very feasible theory in my opinion. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:15 AM:

" Also, someone keeps bringing up attorney Valentine. I thought he was only appointed to handle the case while it was in juvenile court. Now that it is in circuit court a person from the public defenders office will be chosen to represent, unless her family hires someone on her behalf. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:14 AM:

" Byron W. wrote "It would not be wise of the prosecution to offer murder two based on what we know. I think the public wants a trial and wants to hear what happened. "

Wisdom is not necessarily the guiding factor in the criminal justice system. I agree that the public will want a grisly trial with all of the salacious details. I just don't feel confident that our prosecutors track record will produce a murder one conviction in a criminal trial. It will be an up hill climb that without a plea agreement will drag out for years. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:07 AM:

" pioneers wrote " gofish, I think you're wrong. I think there are more Alyssas. Hopefully not in our community, but there could be. Basically she was a serial killer who got caught the first time. Or let's hope this was the first time. "

That's the most ludicrous thing I've heard on this forum. Serial killers are very very rare. A female serial killer is even MORE rare.

I would venture to guess that you stand a better chance of being hit by lightening than the odds of this girl being a serial killer, future or present. "

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122665 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 7:58 AM:

" Someone posted that the victim's family's history may influence a jury - I hope not for the victim was a 9 year old girl. No matter what, she did NOT deserve to be killed. Period. No child deserves to be murdered. God Bless Elizabeth!!

I do agree with a post that if the fifteen year old was not caught she probably would have killed again. Thrill-seeking, I fear.

No one's childhood is a fairytail; however, the fifteen year old KNOWS right from wrong - accept it - she is EVIL.

Protect the innocent, the state and nation needs to be stricter on laws and penalties for these individuals! "

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1stveil wrote on Nov 20, 2009 4:36 AM:

" I have to agree with Kurt Valentine, here they are not prepared for this at all that is why it all needs to come out Every Little Detail Mental Health couldn't see this what is really going on here "

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1stveil wrote on Nov 20, 2009 4:32 AM:

" I want to know who the 2nd Grave was for "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:52 PM:

" mojo_girl, lawyers are going to try any trick they can, didn't take him long to try to play the 'crazy card'. Wonder if he thinks people who get into witchcraft, rituals, sacrafices etc isn't a CHOICE they make just like any other bad things people get into, its a CHOICE they make and murdering a person is definately a choice that girl made and with TWO graves dug, she obviously didn't plan on only killing one person either.
My heart goes out to her family too but not because they are responsible, just because they went to counseling and tried to help her and they couldn't. Some people just cannot be helped and I think she is one of them! "

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wojo_girl wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:17 PM:

" cont - life in prison. "

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wojo_girl wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:16 PM:

" Why can't it be accepted that some people are evil and some people are not? Your upbringing might define you in so many ways but it is up to each individual person to make their own decisions. There are many people in this world who have less than fortunate upbringings but did they go on to kill someone just for the fun of it? No! Lets quit making excuses for this person who decided to dig TWO graves and then kill a 9 year old innocent girl. I do have some sympathy for her family because they have to be asking questions of where they went wrong. But AB is a heartless killer. Shes lucky to get "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:43 PM:

" kctv5 says her attorney filed a motion today to have her immediately placed in a mental hospital while waiting on charges: http://www.kctv5.com/news/21669569/detail.html

It's reported this girl has been treated and her family very involved in it, had attended treatment regularly, she has been on meds, what proof does her attorney need that the treatment didn't help and she still killed?
Not to mention a mental hospital has the facilities needed to keep her from murderering someone else while she's in the hospital?
What would the state say if that happens?
She has already taken one precious life, she doesn't need to be in any situation where she could take another "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 19, 2009 7:10 PM:

" mariab wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:18 AM:

" Rosybud, can you point me to the source of your stats? "

childrenofoffenders.com "

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Justanumber wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:52 PM:

" roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:37 PM:

" Justanumber wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:36 PM:

" I WILL NOT JUDGE ONLY GOD CAN! "

You wont judge or read forum rules either? :>) "

sorry about that everybody your right I can admit it just cast the first stone. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:42 PM:

" traceyt wrote "So what are you doing on a personal basis to reach out to those in your community with compassion."

I don't think compassion is always the best way to reach out. Sometimes it is the wrong thing to do. Sometimes the best way to reach out is with a boot in the butt. I try to do that every day. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:41 PM:

" traceyt wrote "We will never all agree on the definition of "insane"."

We don't have to agree. The law has a definition and she does not fit it. "

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traceyt wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:38 PM:

" Bryon W.
Please read the rest of my post and respond accordingly. We will never all agree on the definition of "insane". So what are you doing on a personal basis to reach out to those in your community with compassion. I would be interested to know? That was the MAJOR point of my post. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:27 PM:

" traceyt wrote "Insanity is not something a sane person will ever be able to "UNDERSTAND" so can we try some "COMPASSION" for a change?"

Based on what we knowit does not appear like that Alyssa is insane. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:26 PM:

" boscoe wrote "You people are in total denial as to what kind of world many of these kids live in today. The world of video games, witchcraft, evil comic books, violent TV and movies, etc. warps their sense of values. Murder is an everyday thing in all those- nothing to be to concerned about.

And we are not allowed to counteract the depravity with good influences like Christianity. We reap what we sow. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:24 PM:

" gofish wrote "I see a strong probablity of a murder 2nd plea agreement. Too many potential things that will come up on the victims family if there is a trial.

It would not be wise of the prosecution to offer murder two based on what we know. I think the public wants a trial and wants to hear what happened. If she takes a plea to murder one there is nothing that can be done about that. "

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pioneers wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:22 PM:

" gofish, I think you're wrong. I think there are more Alyssas. Hopefully not in our community, but there could be.

Basically she was a serial killer who got caught the first time. Or let's hope this was the first time. "

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traceyt wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:20 PM:

" I get the feeling many on these comment post would have really "ENJOYED" the Salem Witch Trials. What is wrong with you people, have you no compassion for either family? This discussion board is getting way out of hand with all the accusations and trying to figure out "why". Insanity is not something a sane person will ever be able to "UNDERSTAND" so can we try some "COMPASSION" for a change? Look around you, see if any other young people in your life or community appear to be in trouble and reach out a caring hand instead of judgement or criticism!! Reach out with love to those who don't have the best life possible, show them they have choices! "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:52 PM:

" I see a strong probablity of a murder 2nd plea agreement. Too many potential things that will come up on the victims family if there is a trial. They will be pertinent to the defense showing reasonable doubt and may soften a jury to a "troubled girl's" plea. Either way, the only good that can come of this is if the 15yo gets the mental health treatment she clearly needs. "

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justaguy wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:43 PM:

" Question: Will she cop a plea to 2nd degree murder, and would Richardson offer it to keep this from going to trial? Would her background and mental health record justify this? If so, she could be eligible for parole when she's 40 or so, which may not go over to good with the voters. Just askin--I'm not a lawyer, but could anyone shed some light on this? "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:35 PM:

" pioneers wrote "How many Alyssa Bustanmates are there? "

God only made one of her. "

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pioneers wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:34 PM:

" I believe I read where Alyssa attempted suicide in 2007. If that's true, she was 13 years old. That's young to try and kill yourself. That tells me there were some serious emotional problems.

Whoever posted about the medication, that also could have played into this.

Again, I am not excusing her, just trying to figure out what caused a smart kid to murder.

As to the 2 graves, I thought I read where she had twin brothers. I wonder if that was plan a, and didnt' work out so she went to plan b. "

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pioneers wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:30 PM:

" I agree with Boscoe. We've got to learn something from this. We better wake up and realize kids are exposed to an incredible amount of violence, sex etc.

The lack of caring parents in the life of the accused may be a factor. Many have posted comments that they didn't have 2 parents in the home and turned out fine. That doesn't mean everyone in single family homes comes out as well as you did. Everyone is different.

I don't excuse the accused actions. But I believe she was not born evil. Something made her evil. Look around you. Are the same factors present in lives of others? How many Alyssa Bustanmates are there? "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:24 PM:

" Google the phrase "Prozac and Bipolar". The first site on the list reiterates my earlier post almost word for word:

"Unfortunately, if bipolar is involved, an antidepressant taken without the protection of a mood stabilizer can induce mania and worsen the course of the illness."

I'll put my money on that as being the reason "why". "

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leeannet wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:06 PM:

" Of all the excuses that can be made depression oh she had bad parents OH BS we cant all grow up in a perfect world but we arent KILLERS that thing was twisted she should of been locked up when they first dealt with her ILLNESS lookat her she looks like a nut with all that black makeup you mean to tell me her GRANDPARENTS let her leve the house looking like alice cooper? thats a sign right there WEIRD......... hey she did the crime now she must pay no one will miss her Im sure who was next? "

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lynnette wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:39 PM:

" I haven't gone thru every post but I just read on KRCG that Alyssa was on PROZAC..mind you I am not excusing this by no means but I have to wonder:It had been found that giving anti-depressants to children under 21 can cause suicidal thoughts along w/violance rage and dark troubling thoughts......Isn't this coming into question?????? "

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Kristy wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:36 PM:

" Many people have posted on many sites about this since it happened. With the few facts that are released in this article, when many had already 'heard' them, brings more credibility to other details 'heard' that haven't been released yet. "

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traceyt wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:26 PM:

" many families were changed forever by this tragedy, two young girls lives ended on this fateful evening. The family of one child has received the outpouring of sympathy and support of the community and rightfully so, the other family has been subjected to very harsh criticism and hostility. Please remember we all make choices and parents my do the best they can and still have a child that makes choices they do not agree with or "turns out bad" EACH human being is responsible for THEIR OWN choices. Both families are suffering, both families, deserve respect and support. Please remember we are all responsible to do our part to make our world a better place. What are you doing? "

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summer09 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:11 PM:

" Go FISH - If the shoe fits... "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:10 PM:

" Dungeons and Dragons may be over in the mainstream, but there is a HUGE subculture that participates in role-playing, 2nd life-type virual reality worlds.

Wake up and realize what is going on in the world of today's teenagers. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:08 PM:

" summer09 wrote "This day and age when you live on pavement, have gone goth & emo, spending your time in the woods " ain't " like when you grew up. "

You are stereotyping those who are "different" than you. Goth and Emo does not automatically make someone a sick murderer any more than wearing wranglers and ropers make someone a cowboy/cowgirl. For most, it's just a fashion statement. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:02 PM:

" Clearly you don't make it to any of the bonfires and mudruns that are in the country in 2009? Like I said, you should get outdoors more. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:00 PM:

" summer09 " GO FISH - Let me guess, you think she was spending all that time in the woods, roasting marshmallows and singing camp fire songs? Give me a break! "

Maybe so, was she ever a brownie or girl scout? Or maybe she just wanted to be left alone...or spend time with her bf? Lot's of things, not just the negative. My friends and I hung out the in the woods because it was peaceful and away from all the bs of life. For all we know she was reading a book.

I know it's hard to believe when you spend your time indoors with a computer instead of outdoors with nature. You should get out. "

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Unknown User wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:54 PM:

" Posted by Gofish-->" Has anyone considered in their paranoia that the second grave Allysa allegedly dug was for HERSELF!!!???

She may have been planning a murder suicide and chickened out on the second half. "

And she was going bury herself too? How would she cover herself up? Ding Ding!!!! "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:53 PM:

" 10-4 on the graphic blood and gore of Bugs Bunnie cartoons! It is exactly identical as what we see in today's popular video games and movies.

I agree that contraception and abortion should be legal and more accessible. Bringing a child into today's world is one of the most scary things to me. I wouldn't do it. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:52 PM:

" And before video games we used to act out our murderous tendencies by playing cops and robbers, street hockey, and watching roller derby. Seems like the act of doing would have made us more apt to commit murder than to just watch it on a computer screen. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:50 PM:

" boscoe wrote " You people are in total denial as to what kind of world many of these kids live in today. The world of video games, witchcraft, evil comic books, violent TV and movies, etc. warps their sense of values. Murder is an everyday thing in all those- nothing to be to concerned about.

Well Boscoe before you go postal on modern society consider this. I saw an alarming number of vicious assualts, murders, bombings, and WMD on tv everyday before I even got to kindergarden.

Elmer Fudd, Bugs Bunny, Wile E Coyote, superman, batman, nightly news of the vietnam war, The Lone Ranger, John Wayne, The Little Rascals, they were all a bunch of murderous thugs. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:50 PM:

" "Children need to be properly raised by both parents or else don't have them."

Yet there are still those who would remove contraception and abortion as a safe legal option....

And then seek to cut govt funding to WIC, preschool programs, our public schools, state mental health programs....

All the while spending trillions on nation building, illegal wars, and imprisoning non-violent drug offenders.... "

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summer09 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:45 PM:

" GO FISH - You're not the only one shaking your head in disbelief ! You just wait & see. Let me guess, you think she was spending all that time in the woods, roasting marshmallows and singing camp fire songs? Give me a break! "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:45 PM:

" summer09 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:53 AM:

" ..., I saw on her twitter page a quote from her stating, " Bad decisions make great stories."
Guess what theres a teacher at JCPS that uses that phrase in front of his class. I have heard it said from more than one student from that class. But with that said I believe it is meant to mean....That more stories come from bad things happening in our world than from news stories coming from good things happening...So should we judge that statement quickly. This girl was sick beyond means period! "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:34 PM:

" The research also shows that the first 18 months of life are so crucial to a child's development. Children need to be given our full attention and support during this period. If a child fails to get enough cuddling, hugging, and bonding during this period, the likelyhood is very strong that the child will develop a social character defect in later years. Children not properly nourished with love and attention during their first 18 months develop anti-social personalities that have no empathy for others.
Do the research. It is all there. Children need to be properly raised by both parents or else don't have them. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:30 PM:

" You people are in total denial as to what kind of world many of these kids live in today. The world of video games, witchcraft, evil comic books, violent TV and movies, etc. warps their sense of values. Murder is an everyday thing in all those- nothing to be to concerned about.

Again, I am not saying any of this in defense of what was done. I'm just saying we HAVE to learn from this whole thing and start making changes to reclaim our country, to reclaim our society, yes and reclaim our FAMILIES. Evil will triumph if we continue to ignore all that the world that children currently live in. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:18 PM:

" Riddle me this: Where did she get all these weird thoughts and sayings from the Goth world if it wasn't from TV, internet, magazines, video games, etc.? Everyone saying these evil things have no effect on her-- when i was 15 I didn't ever say or think these Goth things because I didn't know anything about them. If I hung out with Goth people and read Goth stuff (instead of the fishing and motorcycle stuff I read and hung out with), perhaps I would have done evil things too. Instead I did stupid motorcycle tricks jumping over logs and stuff like what I read. If I read murder, perhaps I would have tried that? "

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motherof1 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:13 PM:

" gofish--- that kind of makes sense... maybe she was planning on having the second grave be for herself... she did say in her twitter page that she was living in a grave above ground... maybe she was refering to herself... This is one disturbed young girl... wonder how she could have slipped through everyones eyes... my boy maybe be young but I sure know when something isnt right with him... why wasnt someone monitoring her and the activities going on at the house more closely... this poor little girl lost her life for the sick thrill of another... my heart goes out to the whole Olten family. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 1:48 PM:

" Has anyone considered in their paranoia that the second grave Allysa allegedly dug was for HERSELF!!!???

She may have been planning a murder suicide and chickened out on the second half. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 1:32 PM:

" psiblue wrote " LET THIS BE A VALUABLE LESSON FOR EVERYONE... PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOUR CHILDREN ARE DOING... MONITOR THEIR INTERNET ACTIVITY, AND KEEP THEM AWAY FROM THE GOTH & EMO CULTURE!! "

Good grief...panic in the streets. One murder out of the thousands of "good" kids in Cole county and we want to run into the streets screaming "beware". Let it be a lesson to you. Don't panic under pressure. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 1:27 PM:

" summer09 wrote " Cont.- who makes these kind of statements? "

Apparently, you. And I believe the news article about spending time in the woods was a quote from the Cole County Juvenile Officer.

Now when I was 13-15 and couldn't drive, and lived in the country, me and my friends spent a LOT of time playing in the woods, going fishing, hunting, or just hanging out. How does spending time in the woods make someone an animal torturing maniac.

Summer you sound like a child with a vivid imagination. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 1:24 PM:

" summer09 wrote "I GUARANTEE they will find at sometime that she was out there torturing poor animals before she tortured poor Elizabeth. "

Guarantee? Were you there? (shaking my head in disbelief) "

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psiblue wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:29 PM:

" LET THIS BE A VALUABLE LESSON FOR EVERYONE... PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOUR CHILDREN ARE DOING... MONITOR THEIR INTERNET ACTIVITY, AND KEEP THEM AWAY FROM THE GOTH & EMO CULTURE!! "

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maiximista wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:11 PM:

" G. Wil - My first thought was the same as you -- preparing the extra grave for baby sister, just in case it was needed.

What a twisted and wicked world we live in.... "

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motherof1 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:46 AM:

" If she was so messed up to kill a neighbor child, who says that other grave wasnt for another child in her family or neighborhood... just makes me sick... Reminds me every night to hold my son close and protect him from everything possible. This world is nothing like it used to be when I was growing up... you just cant trust anyone or any town anymore. "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:43 AM:

" She might have found out that her older sister killed her friend. It's been reported that someone called Elizabeth back to the Bustamante house after she'd left for home. Maybe Alyssa was nervous that her little sister might have known something if she was the one that called Elizabeth to get her to come back. Like I said...all speculation on my part. "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:39 AM:

" What would she have found out about Elizabeth's mother? "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:35 AM:

" mother - I've seen the reports of 2 graves, however I have not seen any information or even speculation about the who the 2nd grave was for. I wonder (and this is just my speculation) if it might not have been for her younger sister, if she knew (or found out) about Elizabeth's murder. "

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motherof1 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:33 AM:

" I just have one question and this might have been discussed already since I havent been able to read all of these comments but it says that she dug two graves... Seriously two graves, was she wanting to kill more than one person... was she hoping that Elizabeth wouldn't be found and then commit murder again.... I mean why 2 graves??? "

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webuiltthiscity wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:28 AM:

" Who cares about this killer...lock her up and forget about her "

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solarflare wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:13 AM:

" There have been so many reports on chidren hurting other children, one has to wonder what kind of parenting is going on. There is extensve proof that she knew what she was doing; She dug 2 graves prior to the crime. Life w/o parole is a gift. I pray for the parents of Elizabeth. Unfortunately, an eye-for-an-eye won't apply here. "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:10 AM:

" Oh yeah...one other thing....her Facebook or Myspace page listed one of her hobbies as "killing people". Good Lord, what more do you people need to see that this was a premeditated act?!! "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:09 AM:

" You all seem to be forgetting one little fact....SHE PRE-DUG ELIZABETH'S GRAVE!! She then (or had someone) call Elizabeth back to the house after she left for home. This was a PREMEDITATED act. IMO that means all claims of instability, manic state, lack of reasoning/judgment and all the other things meant to deflect responsibility from Alyssa Bustamante go right out the window.

SHE PRE-PLANNED THE MURDER OF HER YOUNGER SISTER'S FRIEND!!

Life in prison is not sufficient punishment, unfortunately it is the best we can hope for... "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:08 AM:

" If her grandparents knew or suspected she had hurt or killed one of my babies and tried to cover for her .... god help them.
That little girl was lying out there for what, 2 1/2 days? While her family was desperate. "

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summer09 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:00 AM:

" Cont.- who makes these kind of statements? "

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summer09 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:00 AM:

" Cont.- I also saw on the news how her very good friend said she was just the sweetest girl BUT the friends father said he did over hear her talking about how she would like to kill someone. WHAT? Does this even make sense? So, to me, if this girl spoke openly of this, to where a friends father even heard it, wouldnt you think he couldn't have been the only one? What about the friend that said she was just the sweetest girl? OBVIOUSLY if the friends father overheard this, she was talking to the friend? And, at what point do you intervene OR at LEAST stop allowing your children to hang out with a person "

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summer09 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:53 AM:

" ..., I saw on her twitter page a quote from her stating, " Bad decisions make great stories." Hum, wonder what she meant by that?
..., Also, I was wondering, a news story reported that she spent alot of time in the woods? IF you were the guardian of a teenage girl, wouldnt you be wondering WHAT she was doing & WHY she spent so much time there?..., I GUARANTEE they will find at sometime that she was out there torturing poor animals before she tortured poor Elizabeth. Dont tell me a little investigative work on the guardians part wouldnt have yielded a need for some major help BEFORE a senseless tragedy occured! "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:51 AM:

" 122665 wrote " Should we wonder how much the grandparents knew of what happen since they rushed her to St. Louis the night of the murder?"

That's a new one that I haven't heard before. "

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122665 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:47 AM:

" Should we wonder how much the grandparents knew of what happen since they rushed her to St. Louis the night of the murder?

If they knew, should they be penalized for not reporting? Yes, they're her grandparents (and they want to protect) but they have to realize she could have easily done this horrific act to her own siblings or them?

I'm so very sorry to Elizabeth's family. May God bless them with strength and love knowing she's now an angel in heaven. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:45 AM:

" I will say this. If a person who is bi-polar is misdiagnosed as only having depression a serious problem can occur. If you give a person that is bi-polar an anti-depressant only, and no type of mood stabilizer, it can throw that person into a manic state, wherein their judgement and reasoning is severely compromised. Bi-polar can begin in adolesence and the suicide attempt might be consistent with bi-polar. While not every person with a mental illness such as bipolar becomes violent, it is possible. This would certainly explain the "why" of why someone would commit such an atrocity. "

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Rockyv wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:40 AM:

" Bottom line she deserves the death penalty but she should get life without. She will make someone a nice little girlfriend in prison! "

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get a clue wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:36 AM:

" Did anyone stop to think that she is not wired properly. Then in combination of whatever drugs a doctor decided to put her on. Society is too quick to put someone on medication because they dont want to take the time to deal properly with a situation.

This is my opinion but I think it was a combination of things that lead to this child killing another child. This town is so quick to want to put her to death. I find this really sad. Then this town wants to blame books, movies, and games. There was murder way before that. People in this town are pathetic. Justa bunch of finger pointers, noone here willing to.step.up.and.help.our.children. "

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ConcernedInJC wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:34 AM:

" No matter what your opinion - this is just a sad situation for all concerned. However, the statement in this story, "In September 2007, Cook said they found that Alyssa had spent 10 days in Mid-MO Mental Health Center after a suicide attempt, and then was treated through Pathways Community Behavioral Healthcare, dealing with depression."... makes me wonder about Pathways assurances to the residents assembled at the City Council meeting, concerned about the close proximity of Pathway's new Truman treatment facitlity, that the people who will be housed there do not pose a threat to the neighborhood...maybe their concerns are warranted? "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:19 AM:

" What made this girl capable of this?
Anti-Depression Drugs? Mental Illness?
A victim of Child abuse?
Was she born evil?

This girl can NEVER be set free, no matter the cause; she could kill another of our babies.
But if her parent's messed her mind up - they need to be in prision as well - permanently.

What about the daycare her grandmother had had? Was that still there? "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:18 AM:

" And I am not defending what she did. It was horrible and wrong. And she should pay the price. I am just saying that I understand the cutting/mental problems. Like I said, we have turned intot a society of drug using, baby abusing people and our kids are paying the price. "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:16 AM:

" Editor - I think thats the same article I looked at. My heart sunk when I read she was into fencing. Good sport when used right. Not sure it would be good for someone with thoughts of violence. I think there was even a picture of her fencing somewhere and some rankings where she competed. Thanks. "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:08 AM:

" ndnlvngcherokee - seems like her grandparents probably had a good idea that she had done something to Elizabeth, with the time between the girl leaving their house and the phone calls from Elizabeth's family to find her. then the arrival of the police.

Also, I have wondered what condition Bustamante was in when she came out of the woods afterwards. Did she pass by her grandparents (or siblings) with her clothes bloody or torn? What did she do with the clothes she was wearing? Did one of them wash them? "

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online_editor wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:07 AM:

" fishing01: You mentioned fencing. I had forgotten about finding this April 2007 News Tribune article, which has a couple quotes from Alyssa in it.
Participants of all ages learn ancient art of fencing "

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oriley wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:57 AM:

" Haven't most people at sometime in their life had bad things happen. Some worse than others, that does not justify taking it out on someone else. It doesn't defend what was done to this innocent precious girl, Elizabeth. Her famiy will no longer have her to hold and love, she is physically gone. And for what? Because this brat had a bad child hood! Whoopty doo, most of us didn't have the fairy tale life, doesn't mean we go out and kill someone to make ourselves feel better.

She should get the death penalty, an eye for an eye, she deserves everything she gets in prison for her twisted ways. Personally, I don't want my tax money spent on feeding and housing killers. "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:45 AM:

" lumpsinthesandbox i noticed that statement as well...what my question to that was if she was taken to a phyc ward did they already know what she had done? "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:44 AM:

" he was raised going to a catholic school, attending church everyweek...and still acted a fool. So before you go placing blame everywhere else wouldnt it be better to blame the one at fault and that would be AB... "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:42 AM:

" boscoe i just got so far in reading comments before i hit yours and had to reply. First off yes there are many bad things in this world that are in front of teens today. I am a single mother of 2 teenage boys and neither of them have thought about killing someone. You ask how I know because I keep in contact with the school, talk to them every night and every morning. We discuss right from wrong. We believe in God but I dont go to church. My daughter goes to a Christian College and all of my children are taught right from wrong. Their father thought it was ok to pull a loaded pistol and threaten to kill me and himself.... "

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Travelin_Rose wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:42 AM:

" I'm sure the defense will bring up abuse in Alyssa's life because they will try to blame this murder on something other than Alyssa. However, the fact remains that Elizabeth Olten is still dead. Hooray for the judge in trying her as an adult. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:21 AM:

" floyd wrote "Byron, the court rule you cited refers to civil actions tried by jury. Wouldn't this be a criminal case? "

You are correct but the rule is basically the same: http://tr.im/FxQl "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:17 AM:

" From krcg:
On Wed 21st, (day of murder)
"Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital"

So she was let out on Friday - or was picked up and brought back to JC? "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 9:10 AM:

" I am no psychologist Mac but I can tell you what causes someone to cut (usually). I would bet this little girl was abused. She cuts for that release, to forget. It covers up the horrors that people have endured. I feel for the grandparents, they obviously had their hands full. They tried to undo the damage that probably was inflicted on this child at one time. I am sickened at all of the child abuse cases lately as we are breeding more and more of these kids that may grow up like Alyssa. At this point, there is not much we, as parents and society can do, except try to stop this God awful chain. "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:59 AM:

" I will be the first to admit I understand mental illness. I have OCD. I understand Alyssa's cutting. The anxiety comes over you and the repetitive thoughts or actions and/or the cutting is a release. I too came from an abusive background. And ironically, my father was a non practicing mormon. I have been on meds that made everything worse. But I can't for the life of me understand killing someone and the pre planning that went into it. By the way, is this the same Alyssa Bustamante that took fencing lessons at the Y??? Strange hobby for someone with violent thoughts. "

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qtpieblonde wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:59 AM:

" As what I meant in being ODD about her myspace page, is why didn't law officals, lawyers, or the court have it shut down. There are tons of other cases where there is no access to their social networking sites, even by hackers. Once they discovered she had a social networking site, law officials should of contacted that site and had that account deleted. With a proper warrant, law officials could of gotten a complete detail of where she was on that account, comments and associations she inquired using that site. But a WEEK? "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:49 AM:

" I'm empathetic with regard to Alyssa's upbringing. I feel sorry for any kid who might be exposed to life she had to endure, and I wouldn't be a bit suprised if that's the reason why she did what she did.

With that said, this human belongs in a prison for the rest of her life. For me, it's not about punishing her. For christ's sake, she enjoys mutilating her own flesh. She'll probably enjoy the whippings she's getting ready to take in prison.

No, for me it's only about 2 things. Most importantly, let's keep this person out of society. 2, let's acknowledge what caused this and address it. "

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jeffersonian wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:48 AM:

" I don't care about how rough Alyssa's life ws. I don't care what she has been through. I don't care that she "needs treatment". I don't care that her parents wern't there for her.

I don't care about Alyssa at all.

But our community..... all of us.... have a right to be protected from her. She must be locked up forever or our children are not safe. Not my children, not your children, not your neighbor's children.

If they ever let this monster loose again, all of our children are in danger of becoming her next victim. "

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JC_resident wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:47 AM:

" " Does anyone else find it ODD that her myspace page was accessed a week after her arrest? "

I am sure the LE accessed her account several times to find out more about her. "

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qtpieblonde wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:30 AM:

" Does anyone else find it ODD that her myspace page was accessed a week after her arrest? "

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mariab wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:18 AM:

" Rosybud, can you point me to the source of your stats? "

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Grace wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:17 AM:

" Society is "churning" out a bunch of robots. Being a good or bad parent does not necessarily have an effect on how the child turns out - it is genetic. I was abused, beaten and I outgrew my hatred for my father and started a new life. What was ironic my father was a devout Catholic. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 19, 2009 6:41 AM:

" Six out of every ten children of prisoners or ex-prisoners become involved in crime and prison.

Sad. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 19, 2009 6:39 AM:

" soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:57 PM:

"Millions of Parents are locked up and millions of their offspring lead crime free lives. I just don't see the relevance. "

Ignorance or misleading, the statistics show a much greater chance of prison for the children of criminals. Its relevance here? Who knows, but combine dear old dad, with mom who isn't raising her, and I think the picture is gaining focus. "

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sandhouse wrote on Nov 19, 2009 6:32 AM:

" Thousands upon thousands of children grow up in dysfunctional broken households....they don't thrill kill their little sister's playmates.

There is nothing lower than a child killer. She willfully planned and carried out a cold blooded murder on a complete innocent. She deserves exactly as much compassion and sympathy as she showed Elizabeth.

I say throw that piece of garbage into gen pop....I'm sure all those mothers will know how to deal with a child killer. "

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bluenurse wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:34 AM:

" STLtoday.com has posted the story of the hearing with some different information.

That story states the mother and grandmother were present at the hearing, but that the grandmother had custody. States nothing about the father. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:27 PM:

" I truly believe especially with killers that attempt to hide their crimes have NO excuse nor room for plea bargains of any kind. They knew enough even with the use of medications or other issues (Prozac, schitzo, etc) that what they were about to do was very wrong hence the hiding of the crime and should be treated as such.
I have no remorse for Alyssa, her family yes, but her none in the least. I am sorry if this upsets people but its my opinion and the way it is. "

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lifer wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:16 PM:

" contd.

Some people become mentally disturbed and some do not. It is not something a person chooses to do. It is a combination of genetic predisposition, traumatic events, environment and brain chemicals, and there but for the grace of God go any one of us.

Thank you onceajay for your comments. By the way Ted Bundy was practically a genius. Justice must be served for the crime, no one will argue, but this is a tragedy for ALL concerned, and my prayers are for both families. "

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lifer wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:16 PM:

" How many of you have had personal experience with mental illness? How many have taken psychiatric drugs which can sometimes make your problems worse? How many have lived with someone who is schizophrenic yet can fool a doctor into thinking nothing is wrong? How many of you have had serious clinical depression with suicidal thoughts and compulsions to do strange things? If you have not, your comments on whether someone is mentally ill or not, or should be able to control everything they do have almost no credibility whatsoever. Of course many people endure all kinds of abuse and do not turn into murders. Many watch the garbage perpetrated on us by a perverted entertainment industry and don't become dangerous. "

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peace wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:10 PM:

" soncerea,

I am sure she will have many psychological evaluations, what is really scary is that there are many people out there functioning on a daily basis at work and school who could snap at any moment and do the same thing. I think of a man I new very well and worked for my dad on occassion James Johnson, he attended church regularly, worked hard, was a vet, a model citizen that people looked up to and shot his friend and killed many others one night out of the clear blue. He had worked for my dad the very day before he killed several that evening. "

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Onceajay wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:01 PM:

" -graphic violence on TV.....(check)
-music that talks about killing...(some)
-gory bloody video games....(movies not games for me)
-role-playing games...(yup)
-computer access to chatrooms...(no
-working mothers...(yes)
-teachers who cannot teach right from wrong or apply dicipline; (no)
-families that do not go to sunday school, church, etc.; (irregular attendance)

Every generation has murder and blames society because to admit there was just a desire to kill is just way too scary.

MY Bible tells me as much about forgiveness as it does about sin. I can have compassion for Alyssa and still want justice served. It's heartbreaking that she did what she did. For everyone involved. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:53 PM:

" peace, while I respect what you are saying, I have a hard time with the fact that Alyssa was in the top third of her class with As and Bs.. very intelligent has been a description.. While prozac may be used as a defense in cases, I can't imagine it would hold up on this one. Not with her school grades being so good, and the long drawn out plan to commit this. I am not an expert, its just my opinion. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:44 PM:

" mrzonk...Elizabeth didnt hang out with the Alyssa... She was friends with the younger sister. "

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Onceajay wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:36 PM:

" Trying Alyssa as an adult is the right thing to do, IMO. Some on here are saying an 'insane' person wouldn't/couldn't premeditate. That's incorrect. Mentally people can premeditate and have reasons that make sense to them if to no one else. But this forum has saved Cole County a pile o' money, though, because y'all have discussed it, decided on a verdict and a punishment. Someone call the judge and tell him it's over. It's all figured out. Let this play out however it will play out. The girl doesn't even have an attorney yet--or didn't at the arraignment in adult court. There are two lost little girls in this, two grieving families. God, helpthemall. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:32 PM:

" I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, or whether or not I can share this, but Alyssa had a youtube account and people have re-uploaded her videos to youtube. If you go there and type her full name into the search, the first videos that come up belong to her and a few even feature her. It's really bizarre. "

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mrzonk wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:28 PM:

" This girl is undoubtedly evil and lives in a fantasy world of video games, gangster violence and hate. She deserves to die for her actions but I'm sure she'll be locked up for 50 or more. My question surrounds the victim. How innocent of girl was she and did she fall into this type of mentality? She was only 9, so I find it extremely difficult to believe this girl was involved with this thug. My daughter is 8 and she has little knowledge of this type of activity. My guess is the parents of this little girl played a limited role in her life, so she was basically raised by the roughness of the street. "

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peace wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:26 PM:

" soncerea,
I understand what you are saying, but take a look at this,

In a related area, doctors at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine have reported that five patients developed apathy, indifference, and loss of initiative when they took fluoxetine or fluvoxamine, another antidepressant. The doctors noted that the mechanisms producing these side effects bore a clinical resemblance to "those of frontal lobe dysfunction," in which patients may "display apathy, flatness of affect and lack of emotional concern, childishness and euphoria, socially inappropriate behavior, and difficulty in foreseeing the outcome of an action.

I have to wonder should anyone be taking this medication. "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:21 PM:

" "Latter", sorry. "

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fishing01 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:17 PM:

" You want a real shocker, go to the new article on KRCG's website and scroll through the pictures. I bet the Later Day Saint community is realing from this. I know it shocked me as my father was (non practicing) LDS and I have relatives in the church. "

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floyd wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:13 PM:

" Byron, the court rule you cited refers to civil actions tried by jury. Wouldn't this be a criminal case? "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:09 PM:

" peace wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:04 PM:
" . I am sure it will be used by the her attorney's, and honestly there have been many cases that people have done things while taking it that they would not have normally done. "

I agree with on the groundwork for a plea.. however I am not sure that prozac users actually
dig graves 2 weeks in advance.. Much forethought went into this. Very intelligent forethought.
That is scary! "

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Mac1974 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:57 PM:

" Not that it's unusual, but the photo of Alyssa in this MSNBC article makes her look completely different than the photo of her above.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34016501/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ "

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singingbaby wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:47 PM:

" i have always been upset when people blame music or tv or whatever violence they can for a teens actions. i grew up a hard life as well did others and im perfectly sane. i dont believe you can blame someones actions on parental or grandparental unless it was directly encouraged from them. as for judging or not judging others, yes by all means about casting the stone but yes we do have the duty to judge AFTER you hear both sides of the story. there are many rumors around JCHS among the students, you must verify whats true and whats not true. over all its all very sad and my condolences to both families, but pointing fingers at this time will not help anyone. "

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imme612 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:28 PM:

" I'm glad the decision was to try her as an Adult. Now hopefully she can be put away for a long time. Now she can wonder how that is going to feel. "

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peace wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:04 PM:

" After reading all of these post's about todays hearing I am amazed that no one picked up on the fact that ground work has already been laid for a plea, please let me explain, the news article stated that she had spent time at Mid Mo and tried to commit suicide and has been on Prozac. Prozac!! Ther are numerous cases and studies being done and have been done on the affects of Prozac on people. I am sure it will be used by the her attorney's, and honestly there have been many cases that people have done things while taking it that they would not have normally done. "

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DallasFan wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:02 PM:

" I have been reading these comments for several days now. Some of you are unbelievable. I have a 15 year old daughter who is from a split home, with a raging alcoholic father who is very verbally abusive, and who really has nothing to do with her because she is not into the same things as he. She has seen me physically abused several times in her life. She is NOT A KILLER!!! She has been depressed and torn up emotionally, but has NEVER had the thought to KILL anyone. If anything, the whole experience has taught her to be a stronger, better person. Alyssa needs to be tried as an adult because she chose to do the adult thing!! "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:57 PM:

" roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:36 PM:
" It's a big club aint it? Me too on the dead beat bio dad. I wonder what having one in prison does to a person?"

Millions of Parents are locked up and millions of their offspring lead crime free lives. I just don't see the relevance. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:48 PM:

" Justanumber wrote "I WILL NOT JUDGE ONLY GOD CAN! "

Sorry it is your public duty to judge. Thosee that abdicate that duty are part of the reason for the depravity of society. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:45 PM:

" roseybud wrote "No way this is a plea, this was premededated murder, she's gone for 30 at a minimum with a ACA charge to boot. She ain't going anywhere for a long, long, LONG time. I'd give life without parole about a 30% chance. "

You'd think no way but you never know until it is all said and done. The judge that hears the case will have a big say. There are a few softies in mind and body. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:42 PM:

" gofish wrote "There will be a plea agreement for murder two and 7 years, 5 in juvie and the rest on parole."

I can't see the prosecution doing a deal that low. I can't see why they would deal. I know I wouldn't. I would like to see who the judge will be. That might tell us something. And just for the record I made a mistake the minimum is 10 not five. Murder two is still a class A felony. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:37 PM:

" Justanumber wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:36 PM:

" I WILL NOT JUDGE ONLY GOD CAN! "

You wont judge or read forum rules either? :>) "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:36 PM:

" aldewitt wrote "If you people think Kurt Valentine isn't smart enough to read these comments and point out not only the obvious bias of those posting here, but the significant amount of unverified rumor being tossed around, then you're not giving him very much credit. I bet he uses the comments advanced here as a means of proving a local bias."

But he does not need to. Cole County still has a population of less than 75,000. Any claim for change of venue is automatic.


Editor's note: I took out the long URL because it was causing formatting problems on the page. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:36 PM:

" It's a big club aint it? Me too on the dead beat bio dad. I wonder what having one in prison does to a person? "

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Justanumber wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:36 PM:

" I WILL NOT JUDGE ONLY GOD CAN! "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:49 PM:

" roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:36 PM:
" She is responsible for her actions, no question. However if were looking for contributing factors, I think a lousy bio-dad is a nice start, absent or not. "

I have mixed feelings on that issue.. I mean I have a deadbeat bio father, but I could never ever even think of performing such an act. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:36 PM:

" She is responsible for her actions, no question. However if were looking for contributing factors, I think a lousy bio-dad is a nice start, absent or not. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:33 PM:

" chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:48 PM:

" For everyone's information she hadn't seen her dad in quite some time. So, it's hard to blame much on him. "


Can you hear yourself? "

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misshoneybee wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:18 PM:

" EVERY kid needs a daddy in their lives. A father is VERY important. However, a father's actions affect children nearly all their lives, especially if the actions of the father are not positive. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:12 PM:

" chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:48 PM:
" For everyone's information she hadn't seen her dad in quite some time. So, it's hard to blame much on him. "

Elizabeth's Family would not be of consideration of blame anyway.
No blame should go the parents/grandparents of AB.. It was her own action and decision that caused this. Noone elses' "

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chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:48 PM:

" For everyone's information she hadn't seen her dad in quite some time. So, it's hard to blame much on him. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:37 PM:

" roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:26 PM:

Her daddy is in prison, the victims daddy is in prison, can't we blame the parents just a little bit??? "

What doesnt fall on the parents.. Unless of course you consider Dale Sr taking Dale Jr on his crime spree. In that case.. Yes.
If this is off topic, it may be deleted, so I am apologizing just in case:)) "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:31 PM:

" No way this is a plea, this was premededated murder, she's gone for 30 at a minimum with a ACA charge to boot. She ain't going anywhere for a long, long, LONG time. I'd give life without parole about a 30% chance. "

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roseybud wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:26 PM:

" chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:31 PM:

" Apparantly I need to re-phrase something for the hot headed people making comments.....Alyssa is to blame for her own actions...and will pay for her actions. Her Family is not to blame. "

Her daddy is in prison, the victims daddy is in prison, can't we blame the parents just a little bit??? "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:26 PM:

" I may be out of context here, but it just dawned on me that By the time the trial is over she will be of adult age... Almost a shame that really won't account for anything. or will it? "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:11 PM:

" If we don't learn anything from this, her death will be in vain. "

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pioneers wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:04 PM:

" Boscoe, you and I usually argue, but this time I've got to agree with you. The garbage our kids are immersed in, not just exposed to, but overwhelmed with, has got to affect some kids. It doesn't make kids unaccountable for their actions. What Alyssa is accused of doing is horrible and evli. But I suspect there is more to this story. For her to even know how to kill the way she is accused of killing, she was overexposed to a lot of evli.

All these things make money for someone: Goth garbage, the sex and drugs on tv and everywhere, vampire crp,....it makes a ton of money for the people promoting it. I believe it is affecting us as a society. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:04 PM:

" Byron W. wrote If convicted of murder two the minimum sentence is not less than five years. This is far from over. "

Oh I agree completely. There will be a plea agreement for murder two and 7 years, 5 in juvie and the rest on parole.

By 21 she'll be "good as new", ready to get married, and have babies.

A jury will never see this case. Besides, reasonable doubt isn't really "that" hard to come up with these days.

It will be interesting to see the Olsen clan's take on sentencing given the obvious. "

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Bsnoltth wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:56 PM:

" boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:15 PM:

"Consider a modern-day 15-yr old's world:
-graphic violence on TV that dispicts death and gore multiple times per day;
-music that talks about killing cops and teachers and parents;
-gory bloody video games since age 5 where people die and blood splatters everywhere;
-role-playing games on the internet (i.e. Dungeons and Dragons, etc.);
-computer access to chatrooms and all sorts of violence and filth;
-working mothers and little parental supervision;
-teachers who cannot teach right from wrong or apply dicipline;
-families that do not go to sunday school, church, etc.;
How could anyone expect her NOT to do what she did?"

I grew up with all of this and am not a murderer? "

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Travelin_Rose wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:52 PM:

" This will probably be the lead story on Nancy Grace tonight. Tune in. "

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aldewitt wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:49 PM:

" If you people think Kurt Valentine isn't smart enough to read these comments and point out not only the obvious bias of those posting here, but the significant amount of unverified rumor being tossed around, then you're not giving him very much credit. I bet he uses the comments advanced here as a means of proving a local bias.

Mr. Valentine is a good attorney and a former prosecutor. Do not sell him short. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:45 PM:

" chctw73 wrote "Alyssa's siblings and other family members deserve our prayers,... "

From what I hear, their prayers were answered when Alyssa was locked up. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:43 PM:

" boscoe wrote "You people are so in denial and your denial is why this world has become so messed up."

Not denial, tolerance of bad behavior. I think most peoepl know what is right and wrong but they refuse to take a stand. They are afraid of being attacked. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:41 PM:

" boscoe wrote "OK- you all can keep believing that none of those things can contribute to someone committing murder. Keep on keeping on as you are doing. The world is fine and there are no problems. Everyone should see blood and gore and view pornography all day long because there is nothing harmful about any of it. Kids don't need parents, teaching, or dicipline. There is nothing wrong with any of this."

I don't know one person that has stated anything that would anyone to conclude that they feel this way. The truth is even with all those horrible things this murder is a rare event. "

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jimmyolsen wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:35 PM:

" Online editor wrote: "The certification hearing was intended to determine which system, adult or juvenile, is most appropriate to handle the case. "

I think this is still not the right answer....if the hearing was really to see which system suited the accused best, then the decision was: we need to certify her as an adult "because the juvenile system is not equipped to deal with this." That also means the decision was based on the juvenile system, not the needs of the accused. If that is the case, then it should have been a juvenile system certification hearing, shouldn't it? "

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chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:35 PM:

" As I said before...

She committed a crime and will pay for it....that's that. " "

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chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:33 PM:

" Warm flngs....no...I think not....I made the statement of her grades and her being loved to prove a point that you can never predict what kind of person would do something like this. Even people with the best upbring are criminals. Homecoming Queens can murder also. "

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chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:31 PM:

" Apparantly I need to re-phrase something for the hot headed people making comments.....Alyssa is to blame for her own actions...and will pay for her actions. Her Family is not to blame. "

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leeannet wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:29 PM:

" Sure lets think of 101 reasons for POOR ALYSSA BS the animal is sick u know right from wrong u know you dont go and kill someone esp a 9 yr old girl... no matter how tough life is or what excuse of mental illness, you know you ARE NOT to kill people or anything she knew what she did she even says I wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone how sick dont use the oh her poor background well she was messed up ok get her help or lock her up she had NO BUSINESS doingwhatshedid "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:23 PM:

" chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:21 PM:
" There is no one or nothing to blame for this"

are you kidding me? "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:22 PM:

" chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:19 PM:
" First of all, Alyssa was and is a loved little girl who attended church, had good grades in school, and wonderful friends."

I apologize if anything here has offended or hurt you, however, why would you come to this discussion knowing what you were bond to find? Did you really expect everyone to have the warm feelings for this girl that you seem to? It is not going to happen. "

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chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:21 PM:

" Alyssa's siblings and other family members deserve our prayers, just as Elizabeth's family does. This is a horrible situation that should be bringing our community together not dividing them. There is no one or nothing to blame for this....no media, no video games, no song lyrics. No cop outs! She committed a crime and will pay for it....that's that. "

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chctw73 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:19 PM:

" Reading everyone's comments makes me sick to my stomache......like the whole situation didn't alreay. First of all, Alyssa was and is a loved little girl who attended church, had good grades in school, and wonderful friends. So, that make this whole thing even harder to swallow. No one know why she did this, so don't try to figure it out. Only Alyssa knows and God. She will pay for her crime and God will punish her. Does this make it any easier on Elizabeth's family, probably not. Society had nothing to do with this horrible crime. Alyssa had some serious mental problems and needed help. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:14 PM:

" kymizzou1 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:21 PM:
" @dalake,
Alyssa might be mentally ill or had a terrible upbringing, what is her cognitive ability. Is it possible Alyssa is a victim as well.

Fact of the matter is the facts that are out now say enough.
Upbringing has nothing at all to do with it...Many people have bad upbringings, even ones with the best upbringings commit crimes such as these.She made her bed and now she will get to lie down in it. Cognitive abilities are the brain-based skills and mental processes that are needed to carry out any task from the simplest to the most complex. She indeed did that very well! "

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Keno wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:12 PM:

" For hmarie775:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/ "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:11 PM:

" OK- you all can keep believing that none of those things can contribute to someone committing murder. Keep on keeping on as you are doing. The world is fine and there are no problems. Everyone should see blood and gore and view pornography all day long because there is nothing harmful about any of it. Kids don't need parents, teaching, or dicipline. There is nothing wrong with any of this.

You people are so in denial and your denial is why this world has become so messed up. "

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@da'lake wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:44 PM:

" kymizzou - Frankly I do not care if you like my opinion or not. I am free to express whatever my opinion is and I will do so, with or without your approval. If you don't like it or don't wish to read comments, TOO BAD....click off. You coming onto a comment board and telling people not to comment is just absurd.

BTW, you do NOT know me or know what I do or do not know. So it's pretty stupid of you to get on here and pretend like you know me. "

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my2boys wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:33 PM:

" to boscoe:

I have not commented on this once until now you saying the statement How could we expect her not to this makes me think you need to have your head examined!! It worries me deeply that you in some manner think that all of what you listed is a good excuss. NEVER is there an excuss for such heinous acts!! I grew up with almost everything you listed as to why you think she would do something like this and never would I ever consider planning a murder. If you honestly think those things caused her to do such things then a lot of us are going to turn into murderers in your book. "

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redblack564 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:25 PM:

" One more thing Boscoe. I came from a broken home, moved around alot was poor but I still new it was wrong to kill someone. Your upbringing doesn't decide who you are, you do. "

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redblack564 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:22 PM:

" Boscoe all that stuff that you listed in your post may be true. Kids are bombarded with graphic stuff every day. I listened and still listen to Gansta rap music watch violent movies and play violent games. I know right from wrong and would never murder someone in cold blood. Thats the difference , Right from wrong. She new it was wrong or never would have dug the graves. In my opinion after the fact she grew a conscience and led the police to the body, knowing what she did was wrong. Anything punishment she get is what she deserves. "

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kymizzou1 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:21 PM:

" @dalake,

I am refering to people like you and everyone commenting on this message board, not the people who actually work in the judicial system and know the case. You don't know the case, you don't know all the facts, you have not even considered the fact Alyssa might be mentally ill or had a terrible upbringing, what is her cognitive ability. Is it possible Alyssa is a victim as well. Nobody wants to hear that side of things but I am going to say it because it needs to be said. As I said before this whole story is tragic on both sides. Clearly adults have failed this girl repeatedly, and failed to see the warning signs. "

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ap101 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:01 PM:

" There is NO EXCUSE! "

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rockh wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:01 PM:

" This is so sad,in so many ways.I am heart broken for Elizabeth and her family.What is our world coming to.I am glad the girl is being tried as an adult.i hope that she never sees the world from outside of a cell.Just because she wanted to know what it would feel like to kill someone,she has taken the life of a sweet young girl and wrecked the lives of elizabeth and her own family.She has also scarred our lives,the friends of elizabeths family and our community.I pray that God forgives this girl but she needs to pay for her crime.Life in prison is the best I can hope for her.That still doesn't bring back Elizabeth.Only God can mend our pain with time. "

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ap101 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:00 PM:

" I am sorry Boscoe I do not agree. If someone did this to a child close to you I garuntee you would not be saying "How could anyone expect her NOT to do what she did? " that is probably the most rediculous statement I have heard on this forum! And how do you know what her up bringing was like how do you know her parents didn't treat her great! speculating that her upbringing is to blame is not right. Plain and simple this girl no matter what the media is like today or how she was brought up thought this out, dug up graves and I don't even need to say what happend next! "

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plpofjc wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:44 PM:

" I am glad that she will be certified as an adult. Many people come from broken homes and do not kill people, Alyssa is sick and disturbed.
God bless the family of Elizabeth, they are going to need much support as this difficult trial goes underway. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:32 PM:

" Just so the NT understands that was "can't rely on the media!!!!!! "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:30 PM:

" G.Willikers wrote "Can you claim false confession if YOU were the one that led the police to the grave?"

You can claim anything. But what if LE knew where the body was before she confessed? We just don't know enough. As we all know we can' rely on the press for accurate info. That is why there are trials. "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:27 PM:

" gofish wrote "Not guilty by reason of insanity or Incompetent to stand trial, not gonna happen."

The odds are against NGRI but it's not impossible. She might plea but what does she have to lose at trial? There is no death penalty and it is clear that the only penalty is life without parole. It is possible that she ends up with a conviction for murder two. After all she is only 15. A jury, or even a judge if a jury is waived, might say that although it was premeditiated she didn't understand the true ramifications of her actions. If convicted of murder two the minimum sentence is not less than five years. This is far from over. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:25 PM:

" boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:21 PM:
" I guess you know right from wrong if someone TEACHES it to you. My bible says humans are born into sin, and they need to be taught right from wrong, good from bad. "

I'm sorry Boscoe... Many killers had good homes and were brought up in a christian home.
Remember Jeffrey Dahmer?... "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:24 PM:

" Compare YOUR upbringing and world to this poor girls. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:23 PM:

" I don't kill and murder, but then again I had quite a different life experience than this poor girl had.

I'm not saying what she did was not wrong, and I am not saying she shouldn't suffer the consequences. I am saying that we need to learn from this tragedy and make changes to society and to families and to parents to try to prevent this from happening again. We are on the road to ruin, and we are reaping what has been sown in the 80s and 90s. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:21 PM:

" boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:15 PM:
" Consider a modern-day 15-yr old's world:
How could anyone expect her NOT to do what she did? "


I am laughing so hard! That was utterly amusing!

Blame the TV, radio, parents, etc. No blame at all on AB.. your unbelievable!

I for one EXPECT (sorry for the caps) people not to do things like this.. If I expected that, what would that mean? think about that! "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:21 PM:

" HMarie, I guess you know right from wrong if someone TEACHES it to you. My bible says humans are born into sin, and they need to be taught right from wrong, good from bad. "

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MoBlogger wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:19 PM:

" This is just sad on so many levels.

Families losing a loved one.

Fathers losing daughters.

Mothers losing daughters.

Siblings losing each other.

Friends losing friends.

When is this world going to wake up to the reality it has created for today's youth that must struggle through it. "

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jcres77 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:17 PM:

" two_cents_worth wrote:
" The statement "I wanted to know what it felt like" sounds to me more like a child who hasn't yet developed a sense of conscience reasoning rather than an adult who understood the consequences of their actions.

Conscience reasoning ability is developed early in life than adulthood....simple right or wrong is taught from day one. Children seek to try new things, make mistakes, learn. Touching a hot stove, climbing a mountain, failing class, drinking, playing new sports, drugs, cutting their hair differently; they just wanted to know what it felt like. But they still know right from wrong. Often its bc it is wrong that they are drawn to it. They know consequences result from actions. "

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hmarie775 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:17 PM:

" Boscoe, that is a cop out. Just b/c you are exposed to these things does not excuse one for not knowing basic concepts of right and wrong and between life and death. Millions of kids are exposed to those things and DON'T murder people in cold blood. This is obviously a VERY disturbed young person.

(Oh and off topic and irrelevant but no one plays dungeons & dragons anymore, that was the 80's.) "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:16 PM:

" Oh, and the gangster/rap/goth cultures that make it "cool" to kill others. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:15 PM:

" Consider a modern-day 15-yr old's world:

-graphic violence on TV that dispicts death and gore multiple times per day;
-music that talks about killing cops and teachers and parents;
-gory bloody video games since age 5 where people die and blood splatters everywhere;
-role-playing games on the internet (i.e. Dungeons and Dragons, etc.);
-computer access to chatrooms and all sorts of violence and filth;
-working mothers and little parental supervision;
-teachers who cannot teach right from wrong or apply dicipline;
-families that do not go to sunday school, church, etc.;

How could anyone expect her NOT to do what she did? "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:07 PM:

" Can you claim false confession if YOU were the one that led the police to the grave? Kind of hard for you confession to be false, if you are the only one that knows where the little girl is buried.....but I understand the point you were trying to make. "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:06 PM:

" Soncerea nailed it!

So 2cents....you don't think that pre-digging a grave (not just one, but reportedly TWO) indicates she knew EXACTLY what the consequences of her actions were? Or by "consequences" are you wanting us to believe that she thought maybe she could get away with light punishment for this because of her age? Which just shoes even MORE of a calculating, manipulative mind.

Boone County just sentenced a 17 year old to 22 years for killing someone, I believe it was a drug deal gone bad. Too bad he didn't think of the "I didn't know the consequences" defense, maybe he could have walked.

Life in prison for this 15-year old is too light of a-sentence, IMO. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:02 PM:

" Mentally Ill? Perhaps. Not guilty by reason of insanity or Incompetent to stand trial, not gonna happen. Best the defense will get out of this is a psych eval that will prove the obvious, she knew what she was doing before during and after she did it. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:01 PM:

" two-cents who is 48 cents short of being 50 cent. :-)

Child? Yes

Accused killer? Yes.

Insane/Incompetent? Not a snowballs chance.

Why? Allysa knew what she was doing or she would not have dug a grave in advance to cover it up. That's premeditaion, not the act of an insane person. Insane people don't have the organizational skills to plan, prepare, execute, and attempt the cover up of a murder. The fact that she knew in advance that she needed to conceal the crime proves that she knew/appreciated the seriousness of what she was doing and that it was wrong. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:56 PM:

" Good call Byron. I agree. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:47 PM:

" two_cents_worth wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:27 PM:
" However, either being tried as an adult or a child, I'm guessing the outcome will be similar; either being found insane or mentally incompetant."

Mental incompetent as well as insane people do not commit crimes with premeditation.
She knew exactly what she was doing and how she was going to see it through.
As far as I see it, that shows plenty of competency.

Her statement about wanting to know what it felt like, doesn't mean she in a child like mind set.
It to me means she made a stupid remark and had nothing better to say. "

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0123 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:46 PM:

" So, 2cents, what you are saying is "I wanted to know what it felt like" would be a good defense for anyone, I mean if you are saying that she wasn't in an adult frame of mind by this statment then why wouldn't all the murderers use that as thir defense. "Your honor, I am obviously not in an adult frame of mind b/c I just wanted to see what it felt like to chop up that person." What a crock. This little freak knew exactly what she was doing from the start. She had this planned and knew what the outcome could be. She has no remorse nor emotion. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:38 PM:

" aldewitt wrote Everytime someone says something like "I say let's start the trial today and execute her upon conviction," you increase the odds of a change of venue."

Our comments mean nothing to the defense. Even a nitwit of an attorney will get the venue changed based on the local and national coverage.

It's a no brainer. "

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two_cents_worth wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:27 PM:

" The statement "I wanted to know what it felt like" sounds to me more like a child who hasn't yet developed a sense of conscience reasoning rather than an adult who understood the consequences of their actions.

However, either being tried as an adult or a child, I'm guessing the outcome will be similar; either being found insane or mentally incompetant.

I would assume there would be more resources for treatment in her case, as an adult.

I would also hope that any incarceration given, would be given to her as a fifteen-year-old, not as an adult.

After all she is, obviously, not an adult "

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Byron W. wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:12 PM:

" notagradbutlovejc wrote " Why should we even have to have a trail? She's already confessed when she was asked why she did it...because "I wanted to know what it felt like." What else do we need?

Well, we need to know if the confession was coerced or if LE followed proper procedures. And then there is the wacky argument of making a false confession. "

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@da'lake wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:52 PM:

" Defense attorney was claiming that certifying her as an adult and sentencing her to adult prison is essentially giving her a death sentence.

I have no problem with that. SHE gave Elizabeth a death sentence without so much as a trial. Why should we care if she suffers, lives or dies?? If she wanted sympathy, compassion and understanding she should have thought about that BEFORE she took an innocent life.

I'm done on this thread....it is making me ill just thinking about it.... "

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online_editor wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:52 PM:

" Jimmy: The certification hearing was intended to determine which system, adult or juvenile, is most appropriate to handle the case. Now that she's been certified to stand trial as an adult, the usual process begins in adult court. By the speed at which things are happening, the county prosecutor obviously already had the initial proceedings following certification ready to roll. "

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jimmyolsen wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:43 PM:

" I thought the certification hearing was supposed to be about the accused and about the crime. The coverage reads like the decision was made based on the lack of Missouri juvenile facilities to handle a perpetrator of this nature. "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:42 PM:

" A grand jury handed down a two count indictment to Alyssa Bustamante, the first on first degree murder charges for the murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten and the second count on armed criminal action. ... per KRCG "

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online_editor wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:37 PM:

" We do have reporters back at the courthouse to cover additional proceedings taking place this afternoon, an arraignment which would be the formal reading of charges and possibly an initial plea. "

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122665 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:36 PM:

" I agree this is a sad story all the way around; however, if others like her see it will not be viewed lightly than they may (and I say MAY again) reconsider acting out their thoughts.
I wish Elizabeth was alive and well able to enjoy the holidays

This may be a 'wake-up call' to parents, grandparents, teachers, community, etc., to pay more attention to individuals 'asking for help'! It's not always a 'phase'.

God bless Elizabeth's family and friends as well as the numerous volunteers who spent time and energy with hope looking for her. "

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notagradbutlovejc wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:31 PM:

" Why should we even have to have a trail? She's already confessed when she was asked why she did it...because "I wanted to know what it felt like." What else do we need.

Same as with the Ft. Hood killer. We know he did it why is there a need for a trail? "

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lumpsinthesandbox wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:28 PM:

" from krcg:
"Court documents said that Bustamante allegedly strangled, stabbed and cut Oltens throat"

hard not to be judgemental on that, isn't it "

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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:27 PM:

" Maybe NT could find out why so many students were saying even after this happened she was being allowed to attend school daily?? And the fear that I think would be that the 2nd grave wouldve been for her sister? "

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@da'lake wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:27 PM:

" By all means kymizzou, then let's throw out our entire judicial system since it relys on people to make judgments. I'm so sick of folks saying that us, law-abiding citizens should not judge or comment about the heinous and unlawful acts of others. Get over it already. There are also passages in the bible that talk about how we should judge. "

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@da'lake wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:20 PM:

" Good Lord aldewitt, get over it. This is a NATIONAL story. People are commenting and following this story across teh nation. There is coverage in all corners of MIssouri. There have been higher profile cases that have gone to trial and never been messed up because of a few comments on a message board or media coverage. "

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BCK wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:15 PM:

" "I'm sorry but this is good news. This may prevent other individuals who may 'want to find out what it's like to kill someone' from going forward with their plans. "

Sorry, but if that was actually the case, then we wouldn't have murders today, but surprise, we still do. Should she be tried as an adult? Yes, she probably should. But there is absolutely zero good news in all of this. "

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jcgirl5 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:11 PM:

" krcg reported it was said it court that she had a history of cutting herself and has even been trying to hurt/cut herself while in juvenile court custody...apparently with her fingernails.
Also that "Sources said that a grand jury has convened to decide on whether to indict Alyssa Bustamante on first degree murder.
The arraignment is expected to be short as the charges are formally read by the grand jury to Bustamante. Bustamante will then be asked how she pleas." "

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kymizzou1 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:59 AM:

" Let he who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. Don't be so quick to pass judgement. This story is absolutely tragic on both sides. I pray for the people involved in the decision making surrounding this girl. Their is no easy answer in this case. "

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aldewitt wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:45 AM:

" All of those of you who would really like to help out the defense team, please keep making your statements that reflect your prejudgment of the issues. Everytime someone says something like "I say let's start the trial today and execute her upon conviction," you increase the odds of a change of venue. That cannot be what you intend.

Everyone -- and yes, that means kids who lead people to the body -- are PRESUMED innocent until PROVED guilty in a court of law. Let the process play out. Justice will be done. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:30 AM:

" lumofo wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:56 AM:
" This gives the appearance of a beer belly judge out of the old west not even listening to the evidence"

She wanted to know what it felt like.. what more do you need to try her as an adult? "

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JBJBJC wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:26 AM:

" I completely agree gofish, I am sure this will be a snafu in jury selection, but all we can do is hope the Olten famly gets the fairness of justice they deserve and this heathen is not the recipent of a plea or sympathetic jury! "

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maiximista wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:21 AM:

" Has anyone considered that idea that, since she was willing to lead the authorities to the body, there is a very good chance that she will be willing to cop some type of plea. I could be wrong, but I don't think this will ever go before a jury. "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:17 AM:

" lumofo - From what I understand the grave was predug and the killer led the cops to the body. Good Lord, what part of "proper judicial system" is going to alter those facts. Why do you believe a judge cannot make a decision during the hearing whether or not to try the killer as an adult? How long would have been "acceptable" to you...a day....a week....a month for the judge to adequately reflect on this so you are appeased?

Again...premeditated murder of a 9 year old friend of the killer's sister. I say let's start the trial today and execute her upon conviction. Unfortunately that is not an option in this case. "

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gofish wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:17 AM:

" JBJBJC wrote "Lets hope that the whole trial is clean, swift and fair, but she knows whats coming by now from the legal system! "

A change of venue will be first.

Better hope it doesn't go to a liberal county like Boone where it will be all to easy to select a sympathetic jury. As an example, if a defense attorney stated something like bad upbringing, bad home life, suicidal, etc. A jury might find sympathy for the accused. "No wonder she did it", etc.

You have to remember we have a prosecutor with a track record of losing trials. "

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online_editor wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:14 AM:

" Just a note about the screenshot. It was captured obviously on or after Oct. 30, but as some have noted, it's quite possible some other authorized person was accessing it, so please don't speculate anything into that. "

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ap101 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:03 AM:

" she may not have it could have been parents or law enforcement "

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jcres77 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:02 AM:

" Boscoe: probably a family member who went in and made her account private-can't close it for evidentiary reasons?

lumofo: Beetem took into consideration the requirements for such and obviously found Alyssa met them. Yes he probably reviewed the requirements prior to so that when evidence was presented he had them fresh in his mind. From what I read-she meets every one! The individual requirements don't have to be weighed 'equally' either. It was vicious, serious, affected another person; what more do you want?

This is 'good' news because its the start of justice for Elizabeth. What Alyssa did was beyond terrible and she needs to suffer the consequences. Age aside, she KNEW better. "

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JBJBJC wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:01 AM:

" Since when is it a good idea to drag this stuff out? I cant believe they did make a decision this quickly, but thats only bc it normally always takes FOREVER to get some true justice in this town.WTG Beetem. Lets hope that the whole trial is clean, swift and fair, but she knows whats coming by now from the legal system! "

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KandZsmom wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:00 AM:

" acccording to KRCG.com she had two graves dug, but poice are not saying who the second grave was for, Thank God they got her before she did it again! "

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Travelin_Rose wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:59 AM:

" Good sound decision made by the judge to have her stand trial as an adult. I was afraid she would get off with a few years of counseling and then a free college education with an expunged record at 18. Good call in Jefferson City. "

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lumofo wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:56 AM:

" Gwilker, that may be true. but lets have some semblance of a proper judicial system. This gives the appearance of a beer belly judge out of the old west not even listening to the evidence. Guess he had somewhere to go for lunch! "

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jeffcitymom wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:55 AM:

" On KRCG it reported that she tried to commit suicide in 2007, to bad for Elizabeth that it didnt work. Now we have one dead girl and a second grave that was dug for another person who could have been killed. Now she will be a burden to taxpayers for the rest of her life! "

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happy wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:53 AM:

" boscoe she did not, i am sure LE had the ability to log in and look at her stuff at first her myspace was public but after her arrest it went private which I am sure was done by LE. "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:45 AM:

" lumofo - Premeditated murder. An adult crime deserves adult justice, period. "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:44 AM:

" How did she log onto Myspace 4 days after being taken into custody? "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:44 AM:

" boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:41 AM:
" May God give her family comfort in these trying times. "

I second that boscoe, except I would also like to include prayers for the victim's family. It'd be tough enough to lose a child to something like an accident or disease, but to have to bury a child because of something so stupid as senseless as this??!! I cannot even begin to imagine.... "

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lumofo wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:43 AM:

" WHy did they even go to court on this. Seems the judge already had his mind made up? didnt take him long to look over any evidence presented. I think the judge succumbed to mob mentality! "

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JBJBJC wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:41 AM:

" Finally, and I mean FINALLY!!! JC judicial system is doing something right.
I had a WHOLE lot more typed out, but this forum is full of attackers... So ill leave it it at that! "

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boscoe wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:41 AM:

" May God give her family comfort in these trying times. "

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soncerea wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:41 AM:

" As sad as this is for both families, trying her as an adult is the only "good" a decision to make. "

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G.Willikers wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:40 AM:

" I hope she gets to see what it feels like to spend the rest of her life behind bars. This is not good news, IMO, but I have no sympathy for anyone that takes an innocent life. Say good by to driving, prom or any of those other things that 15 year olds should be looking forward to in life. "

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happy wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:40 AM:

" It was good news that she will stand trial as an adult! "

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122665 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:36 AM:

" I'm sorry but this is good news. This may prevent other individuals who may 'want to find out what it's like to kill someone' from going forward with their plans. This may also wake up parents and grandparents...and their teachers.... to pay more attention when their children are having issues that may require more of their time and attention.........before an innocent child is killed in cold blood.

If you pay any attention those individuals released back out to the public often harm and kill again. I agree, she should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It's time we take a stand against individuals like her and protect our families! "

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recyclefree wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:35 AM:

" ...and justice for all!!!!!! "

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zandar wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:29 AM:

" agreed, bck. There is no good news here. Just tragedy. The loss of Elizabeth's life and whatever forces conspired to make Alyssa what she is. "

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jcmo5266 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:20 AM:

" I am glad that she will be tried as an adult. I just hope she is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. "

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bck wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:19 AM:

" Not sure that anything about this entire story could be considered "good news". "

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happy wrote on Nov 18, 2009 10:02 AM:

" Good news! "

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jcgirl5 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:55 AM:

" KRCG and KOMU are already reporting from the hearing. "

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