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Evolution not in tune with school

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Published: Friday, October 2, 2009 10:18 PM CDT

SEDALIA, Mo. (AP) - T-shirts promoting the Smith-Cotton High School band's fall program have been recalled because of concerns about the shirt's evolution theme.

Assistant superintendent Brad Pollitt said parents complained to him after the band marched in the Missouri State Fair parade. Though the shirts don't violate the school's dress code, Pollitt noted that the district is required by law to remain neutral on religion.

“If the shirts had said 'Brass Resurrections' and had a picture of Jesus on the cross, we would have done the same thing,” Pollitt said.

Designed with the help of band director Jordan Summers and assistant director Brian Kloppenburg, the light gray shirts feature an image of a monkey progressing through various stages of evolution until eventually becoming a human. Each figure holds a brass instrument that also evolves, illustrating the theme “Brass Evolutions.”

“I was disappointed with the image on the shirt,” said Sherry Melby, a band parent who teaches in the district. “I don't think evolution should be associated with our school.”

But other parents were just as dismayed that the shirts were taken away from students at the Sedalia school.

“Whatever happened to the separation of church and state?” asked Alena Hoeffling, who was furious about the decision. “If I wanted my children to be sheltered, I would have enrolled them in private school.”

After practice Friday afternoon, band members piled the shirts on a aren't promoting evolution.”

The district will have to absorb the $700 cost of the shirts, which will be replaced as soon as administrators approve a design for the new ones.

table. Sophomore band member Denyel Luke said the reaction by some to the evolution theme was a little extreme.

“It's not like we are saying God is bad,” Luke said.


Skelton targeted by Republicans

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Before commenting read the News Tribune Forum's policies and procedures.
Thanks.

online_editor wrote on Oct 2, 2009 10:17 PM:

" Comments are now closed on this story. It appears both parties still participating have made their points, and personal insults are becoming problematic. Thanks everyone for participating. "

squigybits wrote on Oct 2, 2009 9:47 PM:

" facts,
Those are simply some of the dumbest statements I have ever seen stung together.
You still hold to the idea that there are no transitional fossils despite the links I have provided.
I would reconsider my standpoint if I were you. Like I did when I was 13. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 25, 2009 5:23 PM:

" The theroy of evolution today has more in common with the latest style of blue jeans, it's fashionable to bash, and mimick the Christian haters. Hey we understand, we used to use peer pressure to get people in the pews. I bet you have tattoos or a piercing huh squig? "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 25, 2009 5:18 PM:

" No species has ever developed or evolved into another. The genetic code simply does not allow it. No proof exists. Natural selection WITHIN a species does exist. All the current fossil records provide ZERO evidence of evolving from one species to another ZERO. There is a good reason for this, IT CAN'T HAPPEN.

How about I continue to look at things critically, and you continue to believe everything the evolution pimps and Christian haters spew.

Ask, demand, review, THINK. Open your mind, seek out the answers, ask for the motive, doubt the assumptions, look at the history, read the footnotes, devour the dissenting opinion. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 21, 2009 8:19 PM:

" Facts, I can give you one of my emails if you really want to talk to me.
my name at g. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 21, 2009 7:38 PM:

" Evidence for evolution.
http://pandasthumb.org/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/fossils_ruins/
http://www.mnh.si.edu/
There is no faith required when evidence is provided.
Or is the Smithsonian Institute part of a conspiracy against you? "

squigybits wrote on Sep 21, 2009 7:13 PM:

" Facts, you have shown that you don't understand it or just out right deny it without evidence to show any alternative hypothesis correct.
If you have evidence for something better than evolution I suggest you publish a peer reviewed paper with replicable experiments and definitive evidence. You will make millions and be hailed as a genius. Richard Dawkins is coming out with a new book about evolution. Maybe you should read it just to be informed by the "faith" of people like me. You know, I am surprised to know that I have "faith" everyone who knows me in person say otherwise but I guess you know me better. lol "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 18, 2009 6:38 AM:

" Squig, my beliefs concerning God, are not part of the debate. We are debating the merits of Evolution. I've shown it's false, you continue to keep the faith, and accuse me of being set in stone.

I'd love to share my beliefs with you Squig, but you would just use that to attack, talk about sagettii monsters and otherwise insult and mock. Stick to the issue son, Darwin would have moved on, why can't you?

I stand by it, it's my opinion the only reason evolution is still taken seriously by any scientist is the motivation against Christianity. An irrational fear in the equation, a foundation of science is now a foundation of fear. Darwin would be apalled. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 17, 2009 7:25 PM:

" Facts,
My criticism of your thinking process is not an insult. It is an observation.
If by won you mean you kept your beliefs intact dispute me trying to convince you otherwise you are correct. But in the end I am not trying to influence you, because your viewpoints are already set in stone, but influence anyone reading these posts who may be on the borderline between faith and reason. I hope that they will see that despite your little word games and logical leaps that science and real logic are the way to go. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 15, 2009 9:58 PM:

" rotflmao!

Your still hurling insults, and I find you boring after a four day victory. Join us in the no second apology forum, and have a nice day. :>) "

squigybits wrote on Sep 15, 2009 9:37 PM:

" factsnodrama wrote on Sep 11, 2009 5:06 PM:
" squigybits wrote on Sep 8, 2009 9:19 PM:

" Factsnodrama, Why do you believe in god? A- courtesy, he's always believed in me.

1. Circular argument and stupid.

Why do you believe in the word of creation as it is written in the bible?
Never said I did. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 15, 2009 9:17 PM:

" Facts,
I have yet to figure out where you are lying, willingly unaware or just delusional.
You stack strawman arguments with insults towards me. Why are you so angry?
The Coelacanth is still a great transitional fossil like Tiktaalik. But the Coelacanth exists today because it has evolved, slowly, but still evolved to be different than it was in the fossil record. Tiktaalik does not exist today and it's bones only are found in deep layers of the earth. Like the ancestors of the Coelacanth. They have been dated using multiple sciences and multiple sources and multiple known dates.
If you don't believe in Christian creationism or evolution what do you believe in? Are you Muslim? Do you believe that the earth is flat? "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 11, 2009 5:54 PM:

" Coelacanth was once the big trasnsitional proof, woops they found one alive, now it's just another species. Since that shame/sham they suddenly put all their effort to "prove" evolution on Tiktaalik. Hate, it's quite a motivator.

You gotta wonder after this all falls, if in the future some "scientist" doesn't find a Jackalope fossil and base all creation on it. It will probably be the breakthrough discovery of their time!

open your mind....OPEN your mind. Lemmings are boring no matter which side they are on. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 11, 2009 5:09 PM:

" Now where do I admit I'm wrong?

where is your smoking gun of my lies, dishonesty, or childishness?

Please explain in greater detail. I don't get it kid. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 11, 2009 5:06 PM:

" squigybits wrote on Sep 8, 2009 9:19 PM:

" Factsnodrama, Why do you believe in god? A- courtesy, he's always believed in me
Why do you believe in the word of creation as it is written in the bible?
Never said I did
Why is the bible true?
Never said it was
Are other religious books true? Why are they not?
Please be specific
They all claim singular understanding of the truth.
Can all of them be wrong?
yes
Or just one or two or most of them. all possible
Most of the people that have ever lived believed in different gods than you.
Why are you different?

I don't know, I do know God exists. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 11, 2009 5:01 PM:

" Wait, thanks, that was funny. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 11, 2009 4:50 PM:

" I'd appreaciate it if you stopped the name calling squig.

Why can't we make a cow thats thirty feet high and gives 80 gallons of milk each time it is milked?

Why cant we make a chicken the size of a turkey that lays eggs of preportionate size?

A - The DNA code in the species simple does not allow it, if it's not there it cannot be. The same DNA does not allow one species to suddenly or over time transform into another one, it just does not happen, never will, and no evidence exists proving otherwise.

Now-what-was-the-question(s) you-want-me-to answer? I'd be glad to oblige if you'll quit with the "your stupid, childish, or dishonest" balogna. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 11, 2009 1:37 PM:

" Questions borrowed from progressiveU.org "

squigybits wrote on Sep 11, 2009 1:35 PM:

" Thank you NT webmaster, I was very frustrated.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/images/hominids2_big.jpg

(1) In this sequence where do ape-like skulls end and human ones begin?
(2) What criteria did you use to make your decision?
(3) If you couldn't tell then why is this not a VERY GOOD example of transitional fossils? "

NT webmaster wrote on Sep 11, 2009 12:33 PM:

" You can post url's now. Again, please stop the personal attacks. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 11, 2009 11:55 AM:

" squigybits wrote "Do you call everyone haters when they disagree with you?"

Whether he does or not he pegged you right. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 11, 2009 11:53 AM:

" squigybits wrote "Facts, I treat christianity no different than I treat any other group making a claim. If they cannot prove their claim I conclude that it is probably wrong."

There is more to life than facts and figures. if you haven't figured that out yet you still have some growing up to do. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 11, 2009 11:23 AM:

" Facts, I treat christianity no different than I treat any other group making a claim. If they cannot prove their claim I conclude that it is probably wrong. If you want to call me names for using logic to assess someones claims feel free. But it seems kind of childish. Do you call everyone haters when they disagree with you?

And you are far from honest. The "Evolution is more faith based than anything else." is one of the most dishonest single sentences I have ever read. Evidence is not faith but unfortunately this crappy paper won't allow me to link to the evidence to prove you very, very, very wrong. "

waitingontheend wrote on Sep 11, 2009 9:01 AM:

" factsnodrama wrote on Sep 9, 2009 5:57 AM: (see copy)

Love it, Okay here is my take Mother Nature created the earth with all her creatures then God wanted a piece of her action and she said "No" so he created man to destroy her Earth to get even with her. But she is recruiting some of Gods creatures, people like me to restore her Earth and of course you know what they say, "It is not nice to fool with Mother Nature!"

So there you have it. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 11, 2009 8:40 AM:

" God loves all, even the haters. He sent His son Jesus to die for your sins to pay the price for you to have eternal life, if only you will accept His free gift. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 11, 2009 7:09 AM:

" I have when wrong admitted it, no one can fault me for honesty in posting on this forum squig. Loud, argumentative, combative yah sure, but I deal in facts only. I have never pushed faith for the sake of it, I respect others beliefs. If you want to say your a member of the Evolution church, maybe I'll throw you some.

Evolution is more faith based than anything else. The facts to date show species DO NOT "evolve" into other species. Natural selection is real within a species, breeding bigger cows, chickens that lay on less feed, better producing crops etc.

Can you admit your a hater- of-Christainity squig? You certainly attack it enough.

Anyway-the-blessings-of-Darwin-to-you-may-earth-bless-you. "

online_editor wrote on Sep 10, 2009 9:35 PM:

" I removed a couple of comments that delved into personal attacks. Please keep to issues and/or ignore anyone you have personal issues with. Thanks. --Rick Brown, online editor, News Tribune "

squigybits wrote on Sep 10, 2009 9:12 PM:

" Is chubacabra an example of this spontaeous appearance of life or evolution?
10. NO! The Chubacabra is an example of supernatural thinking and people mistaking natural phenomenon for the unexplained.

Is God messing with us? "
11. There is no god, so no one to mess with us!

Now answer my questions!
Or are you not willing to admit when you are wrong? "

squigybits wrote on Sep 10, 2009 9:09 PM:

" If we are, who created that culture and world?
8. Redundant.

If life just appeared, why doesn't it still happen today?
9. Maybe I should ask you that because you are the one claiming magical appearance. In evolution the food chain microbes take advantage or every single possible nutrient source so there are no stagnant pools of organic chemicals to create new life. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 10, 2009 9:08 PM:

" Who made all the complex DNA strands that define each species?
6. Why should there be a who? We can observe a natural organizations of salts and organic materials without an outside intelligence. Is it that far off to think that life could start randomly and thrive?

Are we just a zoo of some distant culture and world?
7. I really dont know. But you are asserting that we are. One created by your god and always tapped on the bowl by him. Why do you think this? "

squigybits wrote on Sep 10, 2009 9:08 PM:

" Why can't you make a cow out of a horse?
4. I really dont know. Given enough research into the genetic structure of things maybe we could. I do know that the theory of evolution never said it would. Gradual changes over time. Please get it right! Otherwise you are just lying to justify your beliefs.

Why are there no transitional-fossils?
5. All fossils are transitional fossils. Google birds and transitional fossils and you will see many. Heck, we are transitional to our future generations. Now stop being silly. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 10, 2009 9:06 PM:

" Factsnodrama, Ill take these by the numbers.

" Why does evolution breed tyrants? (Hitler, Stalin)
1. Evolution is an understanding of the world around us, like math. Not an ideology. What people do with it is in their own heads.

If a person is miserable, and other are content, why does the miserable person try and spread that misery around?
2. Why does the miserable person spread it around? Been trying to figure that for years. WTF is hell all about?

Why do people deny what they know is real?
3. Evolution? I really dont know. Maybe they have been indoctrinated in it and cannot see their hand in front of their face. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 10, 2009 8:31 AM:

" mariab wrote "Well, Byron, I'm still not sure how you define liberal, but in various aspects of liberalism, let me introduce you to mainline Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Mennonite Church USA, Catholics, reformed Jews, and so on. And these are just some judeo-christian denominations."

Still they are the minority. "

mariab wrote on Sep 9, 2009 11:50 PM:

" Well, Byron, I'm still not sure how you define liberal, but in various aspects of liberalism, let me introduce you to mainline Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Mennonite Church USA, Catholics, reformed Jews, and so on. And these are just some judeo-christian denominations. "

limerick54 wrote on Sep 9, 2009 11:33 PM:

" Faith healing: The best of natural selection! HA "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 9, 2009 5:43 PM:

" mariab wrote "Byron, is there some connection in your mind between liberals and lack of religious faith?"

That seems to be the case based on my experience. The statistics seem to support it. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 9, 2009 5:41 PM:

" abomb wrote "It's more of recognizing natural selection and trying to overcome it."

In either case it seems akin to tilting at windmills. "

limerick54 wrote on Sep 9, 2009 5:13 PM:

" *Dives in* Okay, evolution is a theory with more evidence behind it than some of the more radical in this discussion give it credit for.
The comment about turning a dog into a horse was asinine in the extreme. One could say that the proposed creation of the Earth and Heavens in 7 days is as ridiculous as proposing turning a dog into a horse.
Religion is a nice story to make people feel good about life and death. The current practice of many religions is the offensive shoving of a belief at someone else. Sad, isn't it?
Freedom OF religion should include the potential for freedom FROM religion; for some they are one in the same. "

mariab wrote on Sep 9, 2009 4:55 PM:

" @544321 - When you refer to Brian Young, I assume you're referring to evangelical creationist Brian Young, whose organization is 'dedicated to the teaching of scientific creationism as opposed to the theory of evolution?'

Whose organization's belief is: 'We believe in a literal 6 day, 24 hour creation and an earth only a few thousand years old ... ." "

mariab wrote on Sep 9, 2009 4:49 PM:

" Byron, is there some connection in your mind between liberals and lack of religious faith? If so, what an odd conclusion to draw.

And what leads you to believe that I think the only thing that matters in life is rational thought? It simply happens that the topic of this thread is t-shirts and how people get a scientific theory called evolution confused with religion. "

abomb wrote on Sep 9, 2009 4:22 PM:

" It's more of recognizing natural selection and trying to overcome it. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 9, 2009 3:55 PM:

" Why is it that liberals praise natural selection but try to circumvent it? "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 9, 2009 3:52 PM:

" squigybits wrote "I only hate stupidity and the people who spread it."

me too. That is why i can't stand Obama, Pelosi and the rest of the fools. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 9, 2009 3:51 PM:

" squigybits wrote "Most of the people that have ever lived believed in different gods than you. Why are you different? "

C.S. Lewis can explain that very well, if you were willing to take it on. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 9, 2009 3:47 PM:

" mariab wrote "The fact that so many people continue to engage in arguing between evolution and creationism is a great tribute to the rhetorical skills of some religious folks.

Alas, it is not a great tribute to the general American population's thinking skills."

How closed minded of you. There is more to the world than rational thought and you, for one, should be grateful that that is the case. "

chipmunk wrote on Sep 9, 2009 10:48 AM:

" I have to agree with Mariab. They were just shirts and they didn't refer to any belief or non belief. God probably sits back and thinks what idiots we are for bickering and argueing over something so stupid. The dinosaurs did exists and we did evolve over time because God made it so. Did we all decend from Adam and Eve I don't think so. Did they exist most certainly. But to say because someone believes in Evolution he does not believe in God is absurd. All we are saying is we disagree with religions potrayal of how we came to be. "

544321 wrote on Sep 9, 2009 9:02 AM:

" Believe in something that has not been proven, that is Evolution. There is no written history of evolution or proof. Check out Brian Young. He recently spoke at our school and everyone there was intrigued by his comments. "

@da'lake wrote on Sep 9, 2009 8:58 AM:

" And it's a great tribute to the imagination and creativity of the non-religious folks dreaming up "proof" where none exists. There is NO evidence that evolution has ever created a new species, none whatsoever. Guess you all are just taking it on "faith" that it has happened, huh?! LOL!! "

mariab wrote on Sep 9, 2009 8:23 AM:

" The fact that so many people continue to engage in arguing between evolution and creationism is a great tribute to the rhetorical skills of some religious folks.

Alas, it is not a great tribute to the general American population's thinking skills.

The idea that politicians - presumed leaders of our communities, states, and country - do not understand the concept of "theory" and actually propose teaching creationism alongside scientific theory is disturbing.

The idea that an assistant superintendent pulls t-shirts that have nothing to do with religion, in reaction to a few parental complaints, shows the students that talk of leadership and courage is just that - talk. "

@da'lake wrote on Sep 9, 2009 7:31 AM:

" squigybits wrote on Sep 8, 2009 6:34 PM:
" Evolution *is* natural selection!
Over large amounts of time small adaptations and geographic isolation create new species."

There is absolutely ZERO proof of this ANYWHERE. It is purely a theory and one that cannot be substantiated by any scientific or fossil evidence. There is NO evidence that evolution has created any new species. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 9, 2009 5:57 AM:

" Why does evolution breed tyrants? (Hitler, Stalin)

If a person is miserable, and other are content, why does the miserable person try and spread that misery around?

Why do people deny what they know is real?

Why can't you make a cow out of a horse?

Why are there no transitional-fossils?

Who made all the complex DNA strands that define each species?

Are we just a zoo of some distant culture and world?

If we are, who created that culture and world?

If life just appeared, why doesn't it still happen today?

Is chubacabra an example of this spontaeous appearance of life or evolution?

Is God messing with us? "

squigybits wrote on Sep 8, 2009 9:19 PM:

" Factsnodrama, Why do you believe in god?
Why do you believe in the word of creation as it is written in the bible?
Why is the bible true?
Are other religious books true? Why are they not?
They all claim singular understanding of the truth.
Can all of them be wrong?
Or just one or two or most of them.
Most of the people that have ever lived believed in different gods than you.
Why are you different? "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 8, 2009 9:08 PM:

" True science discovers, it does not create a thing.

Peace to you grasshopper, I need my rest, with his blessing, God may have plans for me tomorrow.

You'll figure it out, no point in yelling at each other anymore. Thanks for the tussle. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 8, 2009 9:02 PM:

" factsnodrama, Hey puzzle me this, why don't athiests go around slamming people who believe in wearwolves, or leprechauns? "

Because they have no more evidence than all other supernatural things.

"I think a lot of scientists don't know squat, try to make a living off of squat, and even if it was true, doesn't mean squat, and would prove the not existence of God anyway."

It does not prove the nonexistence of god and I never said it did. Then scientists "don't know squat". Sad words. Look around you. My science has created the world you live in where as your region has only teaches us bronze age myths. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 8, 2009 8:57 PM:

" A - They don't exist, therefore they don't need to prove they dont exist. Deep down, athiests know God exists, and out of some rebellion or self importance enlightenment trip deny him.

I was raised without church kid, why did I always know God? He was and is always with me. I hope some day you can acknowledge what your heart already knows. Spare me semantics please, I'm being sincere. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 8, 2009 8:44 PM:

" I know you are but what am I? or something like that, lets not go down the road, you usually keep to the subject kid, don't fail me now.

I think a lot of scientists don't know squat, try to make a living off of squat, and even if it was true, doesn't mean squat, and would prove the not existence of God anyway.

Hey puzzle me this, why don't athiests go around slamming people who believe in wearwolves, or leprechauns? "

squigybits wrote on Sep 8, 2009 8:31 PM:

" I only hate stupidity and the people who spread it.
Are you one of them? "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 8, 2009 7:55 PM:

" Zero fossils of one species transitioning into another species ZERO. Natural selection is evolution in a species, not from speices to another. Make any dog you want, if you make one into a cow, let us know. :)

God or spontanious life generation, I don't know, nobody does, we do have 150 years of fossils since the theory, and no evidence. We do have an energized group of Christian haters who fear evolution's frailty,relax squig, evolutions demise does not prove God's exitence, or that Jesus is the son of God.

Go-ahead-with-your-Spegetti-thingy, oh and Mules cant make Mules...why is that squig? This is so easy when FACTS are on my side.

Ya got nothing, cept haters. "

justaguy wrote on Sep 8, 2009 7:51 PM:

" From the looks of things in Sedalia, Darwin was right. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 8, 2009 7:43 PM:

" Who do you think developed the transitional fossils?

God, silly! "

squigybits wrote on Sep 8, 2009 6:58 PM:

" Also, if you do not believe that there are any transitional fossils just pick a species and google "(species) transitional fossil". We have literally tons of evidence!
To the people who will now call me a liar or a zealot or whatever. Where do you get your information?
I get mine from Biologists, Geneticists, Geologists, Anthropologists... you get the idea. All experts in their field and all agreeing on the concept if not the minutia. You are literally denying your own eyes for an ideological viewpoint. I mean come on, even the pope and the church of England admitted that they could no longer deny the evidence of evolution. "

squigybits wrote on Sep 8, 2009 6:34 PM:

" Evolution *is* natural selection!
Over large amounts of time small adaptations and geographic isolation create new species. These species cannot breed with or cannot sire a fertile offspring with the original population. Like horses and donkeys making mules. They are on the verge of or can be considered two different species. Transitional?
Over vast periods of time these two once close species can become as different as Hippos and Whales.Then over vast periods of time single cell organisms can become multicellular and evolve into more complex organisms. The fossil/geologic/genetic record show this very distinctly and without question!
The beginning of life is called a-bio-genesis not evolution! Do not confuse the two! "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 8, 2009 5:29 PM:

" I'll buy that, species, don't evolve into other species. Evolution, Zero evidence, natural selection that animals "evolve", buku evidence.

You gill, I mean get all that? "

@da'lake wrote on Sep 8, 2009 12:45 PM:

" Evolution as in genetic mutations and those mutations being passed along that may create a superior animal WITHIN a given species has been shown. However, evolution as in it was the beginning of human beings as we know them or ANY NEW SPECIES is nothing more than speculation. There is NO scientific proof that evolution was the foundation for life or human beings...it's all conjecture and theory based on limited evolution within a species. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 7, 2009 10:30 PM:

" This thread has evolved into some crazy comments! "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 7, 2009 3:57 PM:

" Yeah, most of us were just having a discussion. Heated at times, sacastic occasionally, but no bodily harm. Mark me down for against slapping, and kicking anyone over a t-shirt.

The writing is on the wall for evolution, on it's way out. Relax, they won't replace it with Jesus. :>) "

geoff-f wrote on Sep 7, 2009 12:43 PM:

" This attitude...

I was disappointed with the image on the shirt, said Sherry Melby, a band parent who teaches in the district. I don't think evolution should be associated with our school.

is the same type of supersensitivity exhibited by atheists who decry the "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.

What's worse is the school district caving in so easily.

The shirts were harmless. Sometimes people, who see harm in the harmless, need the common sense slapped into them. And cowardly institutions need a swift kick in the behind.

It's funny how stupidity exhibited so brazenly drives one to violence. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 7, 2009 10:52 AM:

" You want them to teach something that isn't real?

Isn't that the argument on the left about Christanity, creation, and their hatred?

They should teach the disproven theory of evolution, and discuss the great things Darwin did in recording natural selection, expanding thought, and the hijacking of his now defunct theory by the Christian haters on the left who profess to be so inclusive and understanding of others.

This is hilarious, the left has become what it hated, intollerance, and religion. Darwin is Jesus, the animals deciples, and the planet is God. The holy triune, and if you say anything against it we will attack you, facts be darned! "

joymom wrote on Sep 7, 2009 10:01 AM:

" Well, now... imagine if the shirts had illustrated any other important theory, big bang or Pythagoras, supply and demand? The theory of evolution is just that, a theory. Teaching it offers many opportunities for development of discussions regarding scientific process, science history, and related concepts. Mendel shirts might not have been as interesting. The debate has sharpened our sense of when to leave religion out of the schools. How did This school decide to leave learning out too? "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 7, 2009 7:10 AM:

" Sorry, no fossil records of any species evolving into another. So as Darwin said himself, if hundreds of examples are not found in the future (it's been a hundred years + now) then the theory is wrong. Natural selection is certainly something that is real, but it is limmited within a species. The only reason Evolution is discussed as viable today is the hatred of Christianity, take God out and Darwin's theory would be a footnote as a time of expanding thought, not the be all end all the haters are stuck on.

Emotional responders, Christian haters, and bold faced liars please note: I have not endorced religion, spagetti monsters, or otherwise created the fear your now experiencing. " "

had_to_jump_in wrote on Sep 7, 2009 1:53 AM:

" Evolution is a valid theory. Natural selection is the driving force of evolution. These people that were mentioning earlier that we just "magically" transformed from monkeys are not taking into account that evolution does not happen on the individual level but it happens on populations. We have sub-species of organisms due to evolution. Different populations of same species are separated due to geographical barriers and over time they EVOLVE into sub-species. This happens over short periods of time (thousands to hundreds of thousands of years). Imagine what happens over millions of years. There is scientific evidence to support evolution. However, there is no empirical evidence supporting creationism. I'm not saying that I disagree with creationism there just isn't any data to support it. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 6, 2009 8:50 PM:

" OnceaJay wrote "Evolution is not religion."

It has virtually become one and an intolerant one, too. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 6, 2009 5:33 PM:

" Yes, and science has proven the theory to be incorrect. Evolution is not how species came to be. Natural selection is very valid, go make any dog you want, if you can turn one into a horse, let us know. "

OnceaJay wrote on Sep 6, 2009 4:11 PM:

" Evolution is not religion. It is science. There is no separation of church and state issue here. Pollit should know bettwer. He might as well ban shirts that say E=MC2 on them or A+B=B+A. It is shame that in this financial crunch time the district has to pay $700 because a high level employee wasn't educated enough to know a scientific theory when he saw one. Hopefully there are smarter people than him teaching Sedalia's kids. "

limerick54 wrote on Sep 5, 2009 11:32 PM:

" This shirt does remain neutral on religion. There were no comments about religion on the shirt, it merely played on Darwin in a clever way. No intolerance of any religion was mentioned etc. Now, if the evolving brass instruments/players had been stomping on Bibles and Quorans and Torahs, I would see a HUGE issue. This is a free speech issue and I hope the district gets sued.

Of course, there might have been a less potentially controversial way to have expressed the same thing. There is no musical work called "Brass Evolution" so it is a show concept dreamed up by the director that could've been called "Brass Projection" or something else. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 5, 2009 9:46 AM:

" 9.4 to 9.7 now that's no theory, that's fact. Unemployment, another quarter million evolving from employment to unemployment, but then again since Obama is at fault, maybe it's creation. Before you lefties get to defensive, that would make the chosen one GOD, right?....I mean left? "

online_editor wrote on Sep 3, 2009 9:14 AM:

" I removed a few comments from various authors because they headed into personal sniping territory or reaction to it. Much of the conversation has been respectful of each other so far, and that's a feat worthy of kudos given how emotional this topic can become, so let's continue along that productive course. Thanks. --Rick Brown, online editor, News Tribune "

traceyt wrote on Sep 2, 2009 9:48 PM:

" Don't you all realize that both theories are wrong? After all, the aliens are the ones who left our forefathers here, LOL. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 2, 2009 6:00 PM:

" live77 wrote "the majority of biblical stories are nothing more than the fairy tales we learned as kids. Is there really a difference between a man living in a fish and a boy buying magic beans?"

Apparently you are not capable of understanding beyond the surface of a story. As for intolerance it is the hate religion crowd that is intolerant. "

live77 wrote on Sep 2, 2009 5:09 PM:

" By the way, you can order the t-shirts from Main Street Logo in sedalia. I've ordered mine. "

live77 wrote on Sep 2, 2009 4:25 PM:

" I have read numerous books to include the everlasting man. It plays on the unproven parts of evolution very well. I also read a book about a boy, born of a virgin, whose father was a god. He became a teacher and was crucified and arose three days later. It was a book on the history of egypt about the god Horus, son of osiris. This "story" was said to have happened two thousand years before Jesus. Christianity is not original. "

live77 wrote on Sep 2, 2009 4:20 PM:

" the majority of biblical stories are nothing more than the fairy tales we learned as kids. Is there really a difference between a man living in a fish and a boy buying magic beans? I believe that the most logical answer is the right one. What is the most logical answer you ask? Is that we lived in an enviornment that we adapted to, (evolution), or is it that an all knowing all seeing space ghost created us from dust and wood. (religion) If people belonged to a club that promoted as much hate and intolerance as religion does, they would be shunned from society and considered an outcast. I absolutely have freedom FROM religion, it's called an education. "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 2, 2009 1:53 PM:

" p-diddle said, " I exhort every person on this board to read "The Everlasting Man" by G.K. Chesterton. It is the ultimate refutation of the theory of evolution as it relates to humans."

The Everlasting Man = Christian Apologetic Trash "

p-diddle wrote on Sep 2, 2009 1:09 PM:

" I exhort every person on this board to read "The Everlasting Man" by G.K. Chesterton. It is the ultimate refutation of the theory of evolution as it relates to humans.

That is why Chesterton is not taught in schools today. Because no one could stand up to his arguments against the theory of evolution. And we MUST get intelligent design out of the schools...so obviously no Chesterton... "

@da'lake wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:57 AM:

" Good point Byron....I mistakenly used "govt" and it clearly states "Congress". "

sillyrabbit wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:52 AM:

" Keep David Copperfield away from the monkeys! We don't want him doing anymore "magic" on them! "

Travelin_Rose wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:46 AM:

" Well, just another example of bias against Christianity. Fortunately, it wasn't something to do with Muslims or the ACLU would be swarming all over Sedalia. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:40 AM:

" @da'lake wrote "Whoever brought up church and state, please re-read the 1st Amendment. It grants the freedom OF religion, not the freedom FROM religion. All it says is that the govt. shall not enact a law respecting establishment of religion or prohibiting free exercise."

What the first amendement says is that CONGRESS shall make no law. But apparently it is okay for the federal courts to do so, at least in their own minds. The federal courts made a mistake when they imposed their will in an area where it is clear they were never intended to have any power. "

@da'lake wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:38 AM:

" 1st Amendment says govt. can NOT prohibit free expression of religion. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:37 AM:

" waitingontheend wrote "No Byron, the parochials can't have their own school and then think they can run the public schools to."

Oh they certainily can. They pay taxes and are memebers of the community. They have alegitmate interest in how society runs. What shouldn't be done is to allow government to run them out with bad policies and then exclude them. That is a form of tyranny. "

@da'lake wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:20 AM:

" Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

All it prohibits is the MAKING OF A LAW or prohibiting free exercise of, period. That is not a difficult concept. What is absurd is when atheists push the govt to remove religious symbols, restrict religious messages, prohibit clothing, etc.. THAT is prohibiting free exercise of religion. "

@da'lake wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:15 AM:

" Whoever brought up church and state, please re-read the 1st Amendment. It grants the freedom OF religion, not the freedom FROM religion. All it says is that the govt. shall not enact a law respecting establishment of religion or prohibiting free exercise. NOWHERE does it say that all govt. entities must not have any religious references, literature, etc.. Some of people on here REALLY need to re-learn history. It is the overreaching Supreme Court, the folks that are supposed to JUDGE laws that actually enacted this concept by trying to legislate from the bench. Their interpretation is NOT what the 1st Amendment says. "

waitingontheend wrote on Sep 2, 2009 7:57 AM:

" No Byron, the parochials can't have their own school and then think they can run the public schools to. That is why they have their own little schools. To teach whatever the hell they believe in. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 1, 2009 7:56 PM:

" lol, facts don't cease to exist if you ignore them mac. 1 idiot or 100, I could care less if I'm "surrounded". "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 6:41 PM:

" Here's a bit of embarrassing news. This story made it to #4 on digg.com's "top in 24 hrs."

Yes, it's probably one of the top 10 most popular websites on the entire Internet. Oh well, at least Missouri became popular for a day for something. lol

Facts, I think about this combined with your stance on evolution and..... lol

you're surrounded "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 1, 2009 5:10 PM:

" Gills, rotflmao!! Evolutionary myth that persist despite the SCIENTIFIC (YOUR priests) facts.

Science has already dismissed the "gills" as having anything to do with Darwins evolution "theory". Anyone who uses this to support the evolution "theory" is either completely ignorant or deliberately spreading false information, you know lying.

Species do not evolve into other species period. No proof, no fossil records, nothing, zip nada, end of story, and I do mean story.

Emotional responders, Christian haters and bold faced liars please note: I have not endorced religion, brought Jesus into it, spagetti monsters, or otherwise created the fear your now experiencing. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 1, 2009 5:08 PM:

" Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:12 AM: " Just curious, for the creationists, how does creationism explain dating of fossils to millions of years ago? "

God created the fossils. He has a sense of humor to create some of the fossils to support the theory of evolution, but he left out a whole bunch that are needed for the theory to be plausible.

God created everything, even you! God even loves you- why can't you love him back? "

misshoneybee wrote on Sep 1, 2009 4:59 PM:

" Bsnoltth--Didn't I tell ya'? It's like a whole new world in there. What you wanna bet they'd give ol' Byron W. a run for his money!!! Bet they'd give him a taste of his own medicine! (wink) "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 1, 2009 4:29 PM:

" waitingontheend wrote " I would have just told those parents that if they didn't like it pull their kid out and put them in a parochial school. This kind of stuff is so a-typical of certain groups. Gotta complain about something all the time."

Things need to cut both ways. Maybe this will get it through the thick head of liberals exzctly what kind of idiocy they promote. "

Byron W. wrote on Sep 1, 2009 4:27 PM:

" Whatever happened to the separation of church and state? asked Alena Hoeffling, who was furious about the decision. If I wanted my children to be sheltered, I would have enrolled them in private school.

Apparently Ms. Hoeffing knows next to nothing about private schools. If she did she'd know that unlike public schools private schools tend to teach kids how to think. "

Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 4:15 PM:

" stop wrote on
"I'm sorry Bsnoltth I thought you askes"

Eh, I didn't word it correctly I suppose.

Misshoney, wow, the sedalia board certainly has some thinkers there. Very thought provoking posts there. "

misshoneybee wrote on Sep 1, 2009 4:05 PM:

" waiting--My sister ain't smart enough to participate in the forum LOL! (wink,wink) I was on the spot and couldn't think of a good user name...poor me!! That user name ain't as good as I would like but it was a pretty interesting article, huh? And the forum is GREAT! You are able to receive e-mail!! Woo-Hoo! "

stop wrote on Sep 1, 2009 3:12 PM:

" I'm sorry Bsnoltth I thought you askes:

Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:12 AM:

" Just curious, for the creationists, how does creationism explain dating of fossils to millions of years ago? " "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 3:09 PM:

" mariab said, "Through this email, I lodge my complaint with Mr. Politt so that he will institute such ban in the Sedalia schools forthwith. "

Sorry mariab.... no can do. Mr. Pollitt remains neutral on issues relating to religion, therefore, he can't ban red shirts. "

mariab wrote on Sep 1, 2009 2:42 PM:

" I move that all red t-shirts be banned from all Missouri schools because red signifies communism, which has religious connotations in that communism is anti-religion, and therefore destroys the neutrality of religion in the schools.

Through this email, I lodge my complaint with Mr. Politt so that he will institute such ban in the Sedalia schools forthwith. "

waitingontheend wrote on Sep 1, 2009 2:11 PM:

" Alright Honey, are you Mizzlizz or do you have a sister? lol. :) "

sandhouse wrote on Sep 1, 2009 1:24 PM:

" Gill slits are a fundamental feature of all vertebrate embryos, including humans. Usually there are six to a side, although there are some exceptions.

As the respiratory system of a human embryo continues to develop those slits close.

Regardless of what your personal belief is, this hubbub over the band shirts is stupid.
In the end...it's just a t-shirt.

The overthetop reaction by some only hurts their cause.
Blind ideology is stupid. "

misshoneybee wrote on Sep 1, 2009 1:17 PM:

" Bsnoltth--WOW!!! You should read the thread about this t-shirt thing in the Sedalia Democrat!! Talk about snipey comments! Compared to them (SD forum), we're TAME!! VERY interesting thread!!! "

Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 12:32 PM:

" stop wrote
"Bsnoltth Im not sure what creation has to do with the dating of fossils to millions of years ago. But how does evolution explain it?"

Evolution doesn't, has nothing to do with what I asked really.

If we have scientific proof that a fossil is 50 million years old, how does that fit into the bible timeline, which most estimates, that I have heard at least, put the Earth at being no more than 10,000 years old?

This is completely out of curiousity, it isn't a challenge or anything like that. "

Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 12:28 PM:

" happy wrote

"Hey, if you want to believe a monkey can magically change into a human, that's cool with me also. "

Where did I indicate that I believed in evolution? The whale statement has to do with the bible being a true story or being basically the first self help book. "

waitingontheend wrote on Sep 1, 2009 12:14 PM:

" I would have just told those parents that if they didn't like it pull their kid out and put them in a parochial school. This kind of stuff is so a-typical of certain groups. Gotta complain about something all the time. "

misshoneybee wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:55 AM:

" I just want one of those t-shirts! "

indigo wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:43 AM:

" I don't have enough faith to be an evolutionist. "

stop wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:40 AM:

" Bsnoltth Im not sure what creation has to do with the dating of fossils to millions of years ago. But how does evolution explain it? "

sassy wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:32 AM:

" Can someone explain to me what is so offensive about a buch of monkeys carring some brass instruments that $700 should be wasted? Best I can tell no where did these t shirts say evolition is fact or fiction, truth or theory. That shouldn't have even been an issue. I bet there are plenty of kids in that district that have parents out of work that could have really used that $700 tax break!! "

G.Willikers wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:30 AM:

" happy - My issues isn't so much with the monkey into man...looking at fossil history AND given some of actions of today's humans that's not as big of a stretch for me as the random gases, liquids and molecules miraculously finding one another with the EXACT conditions present to form a living being and then that living being evolving over time into the species we are today...with absolutely NO fossil record of any of these creatures that existed in between amoeba & monkey.

I have faith...I also have a scientifid mind that likes to explore things and I'm always interested in reading/learning new things. "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:28 AM:

" Are viruses the exception to your "monkey - human" statement, Happy? "

happy wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:24 AM:

" Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:19 AM:

"Hey, if you want to believe some guy got swallowed by a whale and somehow lived, that's cool with me."

Hey, if you want to believe a monkey can magically change into a human, that's cool with me also. "

Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:23 AM:

" G.Willikers wrote
"It's all relative to what you believe so to sit here and argue opposing viewpoints based on the "proof" you believe is pointless."

Good point, but sometimes it's interesting to see how people explain their beliefs, especially if it is kept civil as it has been so far.

It's always a waste of time to try to change anyone's beliefs though. "

Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:19 AM:

" stop wrote
"Bsnoltth The Bible is not a book of fables.

If evolution is ever proven then all it would do is explain in detail how God did it. "

Hey, if you want to believe some guy got swallowed by a whale and somehow lived, that's cool with me.

But how exactly does evolution go from being the devil to being "how God did it."? Isn't that kind of hard to do? I mean, to say evolution is wrong, God is right, but then to say if evolution is ever proven correct, it's now okay, but that's really just how God did it all along, doesn't that just seem...

Sounds-like-a-retcon-to-me,-and-I-think-if-that-exact-scenario-happened,-it-would-shake-a-lot-of-peoples-belief,-or-faith-in-the-church. Grasping at straws. "

G.Willikers wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:17 AM:

" Oops, messed up.....

This: "Creationism is based in belief and faith, again no theory."

should have read:

"Creationism is based in belief and faith, again no "proof"." "

G.Willikers wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:15 AM:

" Big Bang Theory has scientific proof...no it doesn't. Evolution has scientific proof...no it doesn't. It's all relative to what you believe so to sit here and argue opposing viewpoints based on the "proof" you believe is pointless.

Big Bang is still a THEORY, hence the title. There is no "proof" it happened. There is some evidence to support the theory, but no proof. Creationism is based in belief and faith, again no theory. There IS evidence of evolution....however there is no evidence that evolution is responsible for the creation of man or ANY new species. It is proved that animals do undergo genetic mutations, but no evidence it creates new species or created man. "

Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:12 AM:

" Just curious, for the creationists, how does creationism explain dating of fossils to millions of years ago? "

HAPPY wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:04 AM:

" So youre telling me that monkey's had the choice of staying a monkey or becoming a human? Interesting.

I personally believe that the good Lord made us and the earth and if you choose to believe that we were once monkey's and just decided one day we wanted to become humans then that is cool also, I am not judging anyone everyone is entitled to their opinion, I am just trying to understand the whole evolution thing. "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:46 AM:

" ~~~~~~~~~And since you ask why are there still monkeys that would be like asking why do some people live in the country and others in the city. That is the environment they choose to stay in while others choose to move on. ~~~~~~~~~~

Bingo! "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:45 AM:

" boscoe wrote, " Funny how these lost sheep use words like "proof", "facts", "evidence", etc. when evolution is just a theroy, and one that its own theroist had abandoned because of all the missing pieces."

Typical christian liar. Lady Hope did visit Mr. Darwin, but he never renounced his beliefs, Period!

Christians are supposed to be honest, not blatant liars. Shame on you, boscoe. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:29 AM:

" Funny how these lost sheep use words like "proof", "facts", "evidence", etc. when evolution is just a theroy, and one that its own theroist had abandoned because of all the missing pieces.

Even more sad is that these poor lost souls have nothing more in their life to cling to than the thought that they came from a monkey.

Life probably has little meaning to these people. How sad for them to waste theirs. "

sillyrabbit wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:19 AM:

" Happy--monkeys are monkeys, humans are humans and while we have a lot of similarities in traits/genes/DNA we did not evolve from them but a species similar to them. And since you ask why are there still monkeys that would be like asking why do some people live in the country and others in the city. That is the environment they choose to stay in while others choose to move on. They're adapted to that environment just as we have adapted to city life. I don't think a suit and tie are needed in the jungle. lol Okay lesson over for the day, I remember going to college with a bunch of D students and like railroad said it's kind of pointless to try explaining. "

sillyrabbit wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:01 AM:

" Actually stop the idea of the big bang theory does have plenty of scientific proof as we can see thru shifts in the waves of galaxies that they are indeed moving away from each other, similar to how your ears can tell whether a vehicle is approaching or moving away from you, which suggest that at one point all the substance in the universe was closer together and we are now going through an inflationary period so something had to cause this. No the big bang hasn't been proven but there are plenty of facts that support it. "

happy wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:52 AM:

" stop I have to agree with you also, it is pretty crazy how we Christians are considered crazy to think that God does exists and he created the world we live in but they believe we came from monkey's...just makes me laugh. Don't get me wrong I am not downing anyone for what they believe if you want to believe that we started from nothing and then we started out as monkey's and then become human then that is cool with me, my only question is that if (and that is a huge if) we evolved from monkeys then why do we still have monkey's? Did they just decide one day that we have enough humans and evolution stopped? "

stop wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:48 AM:

" Bsnoltth The Bible is not a book of fables. Many of the account in the Bible tell about how Jesus taught. Jesus used parables to teach people how to live and to make them think. The parables written in the Bible are words spoken by Jesus Christ.

This story is about a clever T-Shirt comparing the evolution of Brass instruments to the theory of evolution. No more No less. And making a big deal out of it is childish and petty.

If evolution is ever proven then all it would do is explain in detail how God did it. "

stop wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:32 AM:

" Waitingontheend I would like to know how the churchies are trying to impede the constitutional rights of others.

Madhatter I agree.

Railroad1 you know you look at people who believe God created life and roll your eyes and then turn around and try to convince people they evolved from a monkey, and all life started from a big bang with a straight face no less.

Happy I agree, what a stupid thing to fight about. The shirts should stay and the students should be applauded for their creativity. "

HAPPY wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:08 AM:

" another example of adults being ridicules, it is a shirt give me a stinking break. "

railroad1 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:03 AM:

" On one hand you have facts, science, proof etc..

Then you also have people who actually believe that when God created man (Adam) he "formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being"

You're going to be hard pressed to inject any sense of sanity into these folks. Oh well. "

sillyrabbit wrote on Sep 1, 2009 8:52 AM:

" I've never understood why people have such difficulty grasping evolution. Is it so hard to understand that creatures better adapted to their environment would have a better chance of advancing their species and pass more beneficial genes to their young to better help them survive and reproduce? A bird with better beak structure is going to be more proficient at catching worms, a bear with sharper claws will have an advantage at warding of predators, a female human with a bigger chest is going to have more male mates to choose from. It seems logically easy to understand. These changes happen over millions of years and while they may be unnoticable from generation to generation they are huge over time. Put your beliefs aside for-a-second-and-take-a-real-unbiased-look-at-what-makes-more-sense-to-you. "

waitingontheend wrote on Sep 1, 2009 8:33 AM:

" BSN you are absolutely right on, again the churchies trying to impeed on the constitutional rights of others. "

madhatter wrote on Sep 1, 2009 8:30 AM:

" What a shame, it sounded like a clever idea. Whoever came up with the idea should be encouraged instead of ridiculed. "

Bsnoltth wrote on Sep 1, 2009 8:17 AM:

" stop wrote
"Live77 religion has never been a myth read the Bible it is a history book of a man, Jesus Christ, and his followers. It is recorded events that happened during and after the life of Jesus and is the basis of Christian faith. Bluenurse how do you know live77 is absolutely correct"

I'm a Christian as well, but I also realize that the Bible is far from a history book. It is a guide book, made up of fables mostly, to teach morals and how to live. It is written by man, and is therefore fallible.
Is the word of God fallible? No. Is the word of God as interpreted by man fallible? Of course. "

stop wrote on Sep 1, 2009 7:37 AM:

" I am a Christian and agree it is stupid to get rid of the t-shirts. Darwins Theory of Evolution is just that a theory. Spider, evolution is not as absolute as the earth being round. Sandhouse, what residual gill slits? Live77 religion has never been a myth read the Bible it is a history book of a man, Jesus Christ, and his followers. It is recorded events that happened during and after the life of Jesus and is the basis of Christian faith. Bluenurse how do you know live77 is absolutely correct. "

david_heisel wrote on Sep 1, 2009 7:21 AM:

" @factsnodrama Good post, reglion as a whole needs to be removed from the debate in order to evaluate neo-Darwinism objectively. Also it is important to distinguish between microevolution and macroevolution, the former is scientific fact, the latter being quite debatable. As another poster mentioned, despite what many want to believe, the fossil record has actually done more harm for the evolutionists case than good. In response, theories such as Gould's punctuated equilibrium were proposed in order to explain the gaps and sudden rise in new species, e.g. the cambrian explosion. I'm not saying God created things as they are nor am I saying I believe the Genesis account to be factual, merely that evolutional theory has irreconcilable problems. "

factsnodrama wrote on Sep 1, 2009 6:38 AM:

" What remains of the theory stands on religious hatred, or complete ignorance, particularly the academic hatred of Christianity. Their greatest fear is mainstream acceptance that the theory has been proven wrong, which it has. Somehow, these "educated" people think that is then proof that creation or God and Jesus are more credible at that point (which they would not be). Stick with the facts, the picture is much more clear.

Take Chistianity out of this equation and the theory of evolution would just be a foot note, a growth period of thought, and nothing more. Who knows, if science lets go of this hatred they might actually come up with a viable theory. "

bluenurse wrote on Aug 31, 2009 11:21 PM:

" Live77 you are absolutely correct. "

geoff-f wrote on Aug 31, 2009 8:12 PM:

" The school should have checked with the parents about the design before they spent $700.
Lesson learned, I hope.

Suggestion: white out the evolving primate and keep the instrument. An evolving brass instrument shouldn't be controversial, right? "

factsnodrama wrote on Aug 31, 2009 4:55 PM:

" Darwin's theory requires (acording to Darwin himself) thousands of fossils of species transitions to be found in the future. One hundred years later, none (zero) have been found. Darwin would have abandoned his theory for natural selection. Creationism as a theory is more viable than evolution, and is compatible with natural selection.

Emotional responders and Christian haters please note: I have not endorced religion, brought Jesus into it, spagetti monsters, or otherwise created the fear your now experiencing. "

live77 wrote on Aug 31, 2009 4:41 PM:

" teaching evolution has to do with science, not religion. Evolution is at least a theory, religion, as far as I know, is still a myth. "

Mac1974 wrote on Aug 31, 2009 4:23 PM:

" According to Mr. Pollitt, the district is required to remain neutral on religion; however, Mr. Pollitt confiscated the shirts because of complaints based on religous beliefs.

That's ridiculous!

Sherry Melby said, "I don't think evolution should be associated with our school.

This lady is a teacher in this district. That's just scary. "

spider1981 wrote on Aug 31, 2009 4:10 PM:

" @Mac1974
Haha. No, that's just me failing at proof reading.
My overall point however was that while evolution cannot currently be accurately proven, and cannot qualify as fact nor theory, it is based off of a mounting collection of evidence pointing in that direction.
Holding creationism to the same standard, the only thing to give it credence would be writing in a book.
Personally, I subscribe to the belief in evolution, but to each their own. "

mariab wrote on Aug 31, 2009 4:01 PM:

" What education experience does assistant superintendent Politt have that he confuses evolution with religion, and therefore some befuddled idea of the need for neutrality?

And leaving that aside for the moment, how does Politt reconcile the fact that students in his school learn about evolution in science class (presumably) without a requisite lesson on creationism on an equal-time basis (or an "any" time basis)? "

Mac1974 wrote on Aug 31, 2009 4:00 PM:

" two_cents_worth wrote, " And creatures who wanted to fly suddenly sprouted wings and took off. Yeah...right."

As exhibited above, I think some people have difficulty grasping evolution because they lack an ability to perceive a very long period of time (millions or even billions of years).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the word "suddenly" doesn't fit into any explanation of evolution. I'm not sure whether you use that word because you're being consciously ignorant, contemptuous, or you just don't know any better. "

spider1981 wrote on Aug 31, 2009 3:59 PM:

" @two_cents_worth

Evolution is not viewable, repeatable, or refutable and therefore cannot qualify as a scientific theory nor a scientific fact. The belief in evolutions can only be accepted by those who choose to believe it based on current scientific understandings and findings.
Likewise, the theory of intelligent design or creationism must also be held to these same rules.
Basically, it's all in the eye of the believer. "

two_cents_worth wrote on Aug 31, 2009 3:51 PM:

" All they've EVER found are bones of different creatures. There's not a single piece of evidence to prove that one creature became another.

No proof equals theory.

And it's not a very good one. "

two_cents_worth wrote on Aug 31, 2009 3:35 PM:

" And creatures who wanted to fly suddenly sprouted wings and took off. Yeah...right.

Evidence that circumstantial won't hold up in any court.

It's a theory and should be taught as such in our schools. "

boscoe wrote on Aug 31, 2009 3:28 PM:

" Tax dollars were wasted to even discuss this issue?

What a waste. No one was supporting or banning religion here. I think it was kind of a funny poke at the evolutionists, that's all.

BTW: God created the fossils, the monkey bones, etc. God has a great sense of humor. "

sandhouse wrote on Aug 31, 2009 3:04 PM:

" "Evolution is, after all, still only a theory."

I guess those residual gill slits in your neck and what's left of your tail, the coccyx bone is "only a theory" too.

LOL "

Mac1974 wrote on Aug 31, 2009 3:02 PM:

" Here's the good news that nobody can deny. While this is a loss for us..... the loss of a battle, we are still winning the war. They can destroy those shirts, but we'll still make sure your child has a good understanding of the truth.... of how we came to be... of evolution.

:) "

spider1981 wrote on Aug 31, 2009 2:59 PM:

" Its a good thing those shirts didn't have something as equally crazy and offensive, like showing the Earth was round or something. Round? Can you imagine? "

two_cents_worth wrote on Aug 31, 2009 2:51 PM:

" Sorry but my ancestors were human. Everone knows australopithecus died out in the great flood.

Evolution is, after all, still only a theory. "

lustywench wrote on Aug 31, 2009 2:40 PM:

" This is so dumb.
It was a cute shirt. Those who were offended obviously aren't smart enough to understand that our former ancestors like Australopithecus weren't talented enough to play brass instruments, anyway.
It was clearly not a factual shirt to begin with.
Let the kids live a little. If they didn't want that shirt, they certainly could have gotten another. "

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