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Justice is demanded for injured Missouri demonstrator

By ST. LOUIS (AP)
Published: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:59 PM CDT
- Protesters are demanding justice for a man who was injured during fighting that erupted last week when audience members at a St. Louis-area aging forum began yelling about health care reform.

Backers of Kenneth Gladney, 38, of St. Louis, gathered Saturday at the offices of the Service Employees International Union for an event organized by the pro-limited government Tea Party coalition.

The group claims union members attacked the politically conservative Gladney at the event two days earlier. But members of the union, which supports the president's health care plan, say Gladney initiated the fight.

The melee, which ended in six arrests, was one of several at town hall meetings around the country as Democratic lawmakers returning home faced resistance to proposals to reform the nation's costly health care system. U.S. Rep. Russ Carnahan, D-Mo., organized the event in Mehlville.

To view the entire article, please go to our e-edition/">e-edition.





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Thanks.

NT webmaster wrote on Aug 17, 2009 11:14 AM:

" Stop the personal sniping and get on topic please. "

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Boomer wrote on Aug 17, 2009 10:15 AM:

" I honestly think health care cost would stabilize or drop if a law was passed that required every lawyer the filed a health care related law suit and lost would be permanently dis barred. That would make them think twice about frivolous law suites.
The doctors I have talked to say the cost of insurance to protect them from the bloodsucking lawyers is their greatest expense. So remove them. "

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Bsnoltth wrote on Aug 17, 2009 9:01 AM:

" Byron W. wrote

"Oh yes the obesity nonsense. Do you realize that many superbly conditioned athletes are considered obese by current standards? You have fallen for another lie."

It's gotta be tough being paranoid. I guess it's ok to be 250 lbs and 6' tall, that makes you a superbly conditioned athlete. Heck, my BMI is 23, quite a bit below the obese BMI of 30 or higher. I should go do the Ironman!

Also, love the personal attacks. Almost every one of your posts have them, and yet the editor always lets you go. Kinda strange. "

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Bsnoltth wrote on Aug 17, 2009 8:23 AM:

" Byron W. wrote
"No, the healthy are not outnumbered by those that aren't. No wonder why we have so many problems so many people are out of touch with reality. "

Well I'm not about to try to convince you of anything Byron. We all know it's pointless. But there are more than enough studies out there that have shown that both obesity and other health related issues have increased dramatically in the past fifty years. The number one cause of death is tobacco related, and number two is obesity.

www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html

Note that is obesity alone, nevermind the other ways of being unhealthy, smoking, drugs, chew, alcohol, the list is endless.
But-hey,-I'll-just-keep-on-being-"out-of-touch-with-reality". "

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Byron W. wrote on Aug 15, 2009 3:58 PM:

" Bsnoltth wrote "The extra healthy people are very out numbered by the extra not healthy people. =) Would make it hard to pass anything that casts a negative light on the not healthy."

No, the healthy are not outnumbered by those that aren't. No wonder why we have so many problems so many people are out of touch with reality. "

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Bsnoltth wrote on Aug 14, 2009 3:25 PM:

" ODF wrote on Aug 14, 2009 12:23 PM:
"I think that is kind of the point bsnollth. How do we say that texting is bad enough to make them pay for their own care if they cause a wreck, but 5mph over (which is against the law) is not."

Well, we won't, and this concept is completely hypothetical anyways. The concept of pay for your risk won't happen that way, this country is much too in love with it's vices, and we wouldn't make ourselves pay extra for our freedoms.

The extra healthy people are very out numbered by the extra not healthy people. =) Would make it hard to pass anything that casts a negative light on the not healthy. "

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ODF wrote on Aug 14, 2009 12:23 PM:

" I think that is kind of the point bsnollth. How do we say that texting is bad enough to make them pay for their own care if they cause a wreck, but 5mph over (which is against the law) is not.

Another thought on this...if we say that everyone who acts against their best interests must pay for their own care, then what? Are you going to have people dying on the streets? Are we going to allow insurance companies to only cover those people that are doing good and then allow them to rake in millions/billions in profits? Are we going to allow insurance companies to completely opt out of things like the entire Gulf area because it's unsafe-during-hurricane-season? "

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Bsnoltth wrote on Aug 14, 2009 11:00 AM:

" G.Willikers wrote
"How is somebody driving careless, speeding, textint, etc. or someone crossing a street without looking an "accident"?? This is a stupid, stupid concept because thre is no end to where you could draw the line."

BUT, it is a sure thing that if you smoke or drink excessively you will have health problems. Where as you can go 5 over the speed limit most of your life and prooooobably not get in a wreck.
Guaranteed health problems vs possible health problems. It's all semantics, I guess, and you are right, it would be nigh impossible to do it that way, ESPECIALLY if the .gov is running it. "

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G.Willikers wrote on Aug 14, 2009 10:23 AM:

" How is somebody driving careless, speeding, textint, etc. or someone crossing a street without looking an "accident"?? Gimme a break! We know that if you are texting while driving you are TWENTY-SIX TIMES for likely to be in a wreck (notice I didn't use the word "accident"). That is MORE than driving drunk. What about eating unhealthy or fast food...should those people pay for their own care because the intentionally ate unhealthy? What about people that don't exercise, let's make them pay for their care too. This is a stupid, stupid concept because thre is no end to where you could draw the line. "

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Bsnoltth wrote on Aug 14, 2009 10:01 AM:

" G.Willikers wrote
"Average Joe - What about careless drivers that cause a wreck? What about stupid people that cross a street without looking both ways. What about the homeowner that falls of his ladder. "

G, you're comparing accidents to intentional health hazards. We all know smoking/drinking/drugs is bad for us. So if you choose to do it anyways, that should be your responsibility.
You don't know if someone is going to hit you today while driving your car. If you did know, you probably wouldn't drive that day. "

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G.Willikers wrote on Aug 14, 2009 8:55 AM:

" Average Joe - What about careless drivers that cause a wreck? What about stupid people that cross a street without looking both ways. What about the homeowner that falls of his ladder. At what point do you draw the line on saying "they are responsible for their own injuries"? It is insurance.... I pay for insurance to insure that I will get treatment when I do something stupid. What you are talking about is eliminating the insurance concept altogether. I think maybe you need to rethink your position. "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 12, 2009 11:10 AM:

" I know this is hard hearted, but If you do drugs, drink, or smoke and end up in an ER because of it, you need to pay up front the estimated cost of your hospitalization. If you cant pay, hit the road.

If you want a really good laugh, go on You-Tube and search "Darwin Awards". Stupid people doing stupid things = Job Security for health care people. "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 12, 2009 11:05 AM:

" I totally agree with you Facts no drama when you said: If you smoke your costs go up, plain and simple. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness, and that includes poor choices too, let people live the way they want. "

And Byron is right also: People need to pay for themselves not have someone else do it.

If people want to do stupid things and wreck their heatlh, they have every right to do so. Just don't expect me to pay for it through medicare, medicaid, higher insurance premiums, or socialized/govt run medicine. "

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Byron W. wrote on Aug 12, 2009 9:57 AM:

" AverageJoe said, "If you want to really fix health care in this country (in other words control the spiraling costs and keep the government out) this is what we need to do... fix the smoking, drugs, alcohol, obesity, and stupid people doing stupid things problem."

People need to pay for themselves not have someone else do it. That is why, as you pointed out, third party payment is the real cause of high prices. People may or may not change their habits if they have to pay out of their pocket but, if not, it will cost them not everyone else. "

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Byron W. wrote on Aug 12, 2009 9:56 AM:

" Average Joe wrote "Nobody I know wants socialized medicine, but-there-has-to-be-some-common-sense approach to health care and who pays for it."

Socialized medicine is not a common sense approach that is wy it does not work and Americans are rejecting it. "

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Byron W. wrote on Aug 12, 2009 9:55 AM:

" Average Joe wrote "Doctors, hospitals, big pharmacies make money by seeing patients, doing procedures, and selling drugs... whether they are needed or not.

I think doctors have enough to do without doing unnecessary work, but they must do some to avoid litigation. Insurance companies would rather have fewer procedures then theyd have to pay for less and keep more. I m still looking at pharmaceuticals. I know they make up their costs for selling under cost to Canada. "

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Byron W. wrote on Aug 12, 2009 9:45 AM:

" Mac1974 wrote "This is about bringing the power back to the people... period!"

Only a fool can lieve that it is bringing power to the people. It is giving government more power and it will be absolute. And everyone knows waht absolute power does. "

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Byron W. wrote on Aug 12, 2009 9:41 AM:

" Mac1974 wrote "It's not going to be a friggin bureaucrat sitting in that room talking to that patient and YOU KNOW IT!

No, theyll just be making the rules that must be followed or the consequences will be dire. Government does not work and only those that deny reality support more government involvement in health care. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Aug 12, 2009 8:54 AM:

" AverageJoe said, "If you want to really fix health care in this country (in other words control the spiraling costs and keep the government out) this is what we need to do... fix the smoking, drugs, alcohol, obesity, and stupid people doing stupid things problem."

You absolutely hit the nail on the head with this one. "

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stop wrote on Aug 12, 2009 7:44 AM:

" Amen factsnodrama "

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qtpieblonde wrote on Aug 12, 2009 6:41 AM:

" sabere wrote on Aug 11, 2009 4:30 PM:

" I am so sick of the pissing and moaning! When is the last time a new president came in and turned an upside down nation around in under a year? Obama wasn't even in for a couple weeks before people expected everything to just be back to normal and ok - these things take time and cooperation which is something we apparently have a hard time giving any situation. "- it isnt right side up YET, watch unemployment numbers fall again come winter when the stimulus projects on roads cant be done. "

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qtpieblonde wrote on Aug 12, 2009 6:28 AM:

" Several problem exist with healthcare: One, they are rushing it through to quickly. Bright ideas do not come overnight. Second , what is the REAL number of people without insurance minus those that CHOSE not to have it? You have parents giving their children anti depressant drugs or for ADHD for symptoms that describe CHILDHOOD. You honestly think all those people out there uninsured don't own possessions or buy "luxuries" for themselves instead of insuring themselves. Look around, that guy w/ the 15K rims on his car, or the money for 20 tattoos, or those that have game systems w/ hundreds of games, you are honestly going to tell me they can't afford insurance. There is no checks and balances, its a free for all. "

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factsnodrama wrote on Aug 12, 2009 6:26 AM:

" Average Joe wrote on Aug 11, 2009 9:38 PM:

" If you want to really fix health care in this country (in other words control the spiraling costs and keep the government out) this is what we need to do... fix the smoking, drugs, alcohol, obesity, and stupid people doing stupid things problem."

Sorry Joe, other than education, I disagree, we need people to mind thier own business, and let the free market address these issues. If you smoke your costs go up, plain and simple. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness, and that includes poor choices too, let people live the way they want. "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 11, 2009 9:38 PM:

" If you want to really fix health care in this country (in other words control the spiraling costs and keep the government out) this is what we need to do... fix the smoking, drugs, alcohol, obesity, and stupid people doing stupid things problem.

I said it before: people don't talk to their doctor, don't take care of themselves, then expect the doctor to wave a magic wand to cure them of all their ill's, and expect someone else to pay for it. "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 11, 2009 9:33 PM:

" Mac: when you say 'doctors just aren't discussing these things with patients', I have to disagree with you. Some doctors are discussing these things. That why you see Hospice programs. Nobody wnats euthanasia. That's why Kevorkian went to jail.

The problem is too many doctors are trained in saving lives and doing everything to prolong life. There aren't enough that know when to say the end has come, it's time to let go. And then there are the families that want everything done and have malpractice lawyers ready and waiting to sue when low and behold, gramps died from lung cancer and heart disease after smoking, being overweight and sedentary for most of his life. "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 11, 2009 9:25 PM:

" The problem goes back to: doctors hospitals and pharmacies make money selling visits, procedures and drugs. Insurance companies and govt agencies want to control spending. Baby boomers want to live forever.

Nobody wants the government to tell you what you can and can't have done. But when doctors hospitals and pharmacies push more and more treatments on you so we can all live forever, who is going to pay for it all??? "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 11, 2009 9:18 PM:

" Mac: what I'm saying is that it is all ready socialized medicine because it's a business man instead of the govt agency telling you to get pre-authorizations, or you're not covered because it's a pre-existing condition, or that life flight you got after your accident wasn't medically necessary because your injuries weren't life threatening, or that treatment you need is experimental so it's not covered... on and on and on.

As long as there is a third party payer, it's socialized medicine. "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 11, 2009 9:15 PM:

" Mac: I think you misunderstood me or I wasn't very clear...
When I wrote: 'it's an insurance business man telling you what is medically necessary (a covered procedure) instead of the govt. "; you replied: It's not going to be a friggin bureaucrat sitting in that room talking to that patient.

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that a bureaucrat/businessman is going to be sitting in a room with you telling you what you should or shouldn't have. Yes, that needs to be the doctor. "

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joytotheworld wrote on Aug 11, 2009 6:45 PM:

" I don't expect miracles in under a year. I just expect common sense, and he has none. "

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boscoe wrote on Aug 11, 2009 5:08 PM:

" And what is up with those trips to europe to tell the other countries that the USA was wrong and weak?

Whose side is he on anyway? "

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factsnodrama wrote on Aug 11, 2009 4:53 PM:

" Still waiting, name one gov't program that came in under budget, and resulted in improved efficency. Just one.

We ALL want healthcare reform, just not gov't run healthcare. Give us reasonable controls on non-generic meds, cut out a chunk of the middlemen in this racket by allowing choices across state lines, and allow or create plans that individuals and small businesses can CHOOSE to join and see savings that others see in collective insurance user plans.

Now YOU try leaving YOUR ideological left wing aging hippie liberal socialism at the door. The man either works FOR us or gets his butt tossed out. Were not gonna sit here and watch him ruin us further with-his-kumbya-good-time-intellectual left-wing-manure-that-history-has-proven-does-not-work. "

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naturally wrote on Aug 11, 2009 4:52 PM:

" I don't think people are expecting a short-term turn around, we are expecting that he would STOP DIGGING. He hasn't put down the shovel and/or faced the right direction. We would also like to see him follow through with a few campaign promises rather than acting as though we can be lied to, then we should shut-up and take it.
Sorry he's not the 'dream machine' you'd hoped for. "

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sabere wrote on Aug 11, 2009 4:30 PM:

" I am so sick of the pissing and moaning! When is the last time a new president came in and turned an upside down nation around in under a year? Obama wasn't even in for a couple weeks before people expected everything to just be back to normal and ok - these things take time and cooperation which is something we apparently have a hard time giving any situation. "

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naturally wrote on Aug 11, 2009 3:45 PM:

" The more power we give the government the closer we come to a socialist/ communist/ nationalized/ world. This is the very world that dictators thrive in.
Please read you history books, its all been done before and started with allowing the government to limit our freedoms on the pretense of taking care of us. "

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naturally wrote on Aug 11, 2009 3:39 PM:

" no Mac1974', sadly it is about putting the power in the hands of a government that does not even listen to the people. You really want lawmakers like the ones in Washington to decide if your child should walk, if they are worth the procedures? Our private insurance may limit what they pay for but they cannot limit what the doctors can do for us.
Does anyone really know for sure what is in the current form of this bill? Do you think the legislators voting on it knows? Does our fearless leader know? NO, yet they are willing to support it. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Aug 11, 2009 2:26 PM:

" Naturally, you already need an ID card with your insurance company. Page 58 doesn't include anything new... AT ALL. Private insurance companies will require this information.... NOT THE GOVERNMENT!

And for crying out loud, please don't bring an ice pick to a gun fight, Naturally. Page 58 was debunked 1 day after it was exposed!

You conspiracy theorists may as well stay on the porch unless you plan on bringing something realistic to the table. Specfically, leave your ideological nonsense at the door. This is about bringing the power back to the people... period! "

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naturally wrote on Aug 11, 2009 1:58 PM:

" machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card;"

Way cool! I get an ID card! And, did you know that on pages 167-168, you get taxed if the Feds don't like the health care plan YOU choose?

Oh, and on page 42:

sec. 142. duties and authority of commissioner.

(a) duties.The Commissioner is responsible for carrying out the following functions under this division:

(1) qualified plan standards.The establishment of qualified health benefits plan standards under this title, including the enforcement of such standards in coordination with State insurance regulators and the Secretaries of Labor and the Treasury.

That means the benefits the gov't gives you won't be your decision any longer.

columbiatribune.c**/news/2009/aug/10/near-drowning-bares-insurances-weakness/#c55132 "

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naturally wrote on Aug 11, 2009 1:57 PM:

" @Mac1974 - Please read this cut from the plan, posted by a freind in another paper. THEY ARE TRYING TO BAFFLE US WITH BS! THEY being the Progressive, Liberal, 'I just want the government to take care of it all' crowd.
Michael_Williams says...
The health care bill:
I really like this part: Page 58 of
docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-B...
(D) enable the real-time (or near real time) determination of an individuals financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a..... "

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tweediebird wrote on Aug 11, 2009 11:15 AM:

" the bottom line is that people are finally getting fed up with government, period. government and the people who are running it, both parties, are a failure. waste, waste, waste, power, power, power and people like Mac1974 that believe the lies. "

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Travelin_Rose wrote on Aug 11, 2009 10:17 AM:

" That Democrat Union Thug should be thrown into jail. I can't imagine shoving a person like Mr. Gladney. How would this be handled if a bunch of Conservatives had attacked a Democrat with the medical issues of Mr. Gladney? The media would be horrified. This dividing down party lines is getting very scary and dangerous. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Aug 11, 2009 10:08 AM:

" All of you are making a horrendous mistake when you buy into the BIG LIE that some IRS agent in a suit is going to be forcing your grandmother's death. That's ludicrous!


Pull your heads out folks! Wake up and realize which side of your bread is buttered! "

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Mac1974 wrote on Aug 11, 2009 10:06 AM:

" Average Joe said, "The only difference is it's an insurance business man telling you what is medically necessary (a covered procedure) instead of the govt. "

I agree with most of your theory, but the above statement is where you go left-field. It's not going to be a friggin bureaucrat sitting in that room talking to that patient and YOU KNOW IT! You know that statement is a fear-tactic and a lie!

Listen folks, here's reality. Joe is right! There is a slimy, no good insurance exec. deciding whether or not your mom should have a feeding tube. Obama is simply suggesting we eliminate that exec. and bring in a doctor to help make the determination. "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 10, 2009 11:30 PM:

" By the way, how many people do you know who have "loved" ones in a nursing home, then hide the family assets so they don't lose "their" inhertance; and go on to complain about how bad the service is in nursing homes?

And how about the blood ...ucking parasite malpractice lawyers who drive up health care costs from fear of litigation? "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 10, 2009 11:23 PM:

" Since someone was talking about Sarah Palin and her death panel theory: Medical science and technology have out-paced the ethics of health and well being for the last 40 years. You've got some who want multi-system transplants while others can't get an office appointment for a basic check up. You've got some who revile the thought of euthanasia but I can tell you from 20 yrs working in an ICU there are some fates worse than death.

Nobody I know supports euthanasia. Nobody lives forever either. Sometimes, a peaceful, pain free, dignified death is the best answer. Nobody I know wants socialized medicine, but-there-has-to-be-some-common-sense approach to health care and who pays for it. "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 10, 2009 10:34 PM:

" Doctors, hospitals, big pharmacies make money by seeing patients, doing procedures, and selling drugs... whether they are needed or not. Insurance companies and big government programs want to contain costs. Aging baby boomers want to live forever. Who do you think will win out? "

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Average Joe wrote on Aug 10, 2009 10:27 PM:

" The problem is people don't talk to their doctor, don't take care of themselves, then expect the doctor to wave a magic wand to cure them of all their ill's, and expect someone else to pay for it. Doctors are in the business of saving and prolonging lives. People want everything done and nothing but the best for their loved ones... as long as someone else is paying for it. As long as you've got third party reimbursement, you've got socialized medicine. The only difference is it's an insurance business man telling you what is medically necessary (a covered procedure) instead of the govt. "

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factsnodrama wrote on Aug 10, 2009 8:45 PM:

" Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot. "

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factsnodrama wrote on Aug 10, 2009 8:44 PM:

" Oh and name one gov't program that came in under budget, and resulted in improved efficency. Just one. I wouldn't trust this bunch (left, right, or otherwise) to park my car. "

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factsnodrama wrote on Aug 10, 2009 8:39 PM:

" Where are the jobs, the fiscal resposibility, the transparency in govt? All's we've gotten is another Democrat that ran center and governs far left. He's a disaster, and unless he gets smart like Clinton did, he'll be gone in 4.

Thugs, stupidly, divisivness, blame game, and condesention. CHANGE we can't believe. "

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Boscoe wrote on Aug 10, 2009 8:25 PM:

" Who wants government-restricted health care anyway? The license bureau in town got so much better after Blunt turned over to the private sector. They got rid of the lazy employees and they now have free popcorn and soda. Government-run medicine is going to suckle
so bad and lose so much money, and the benefits are going to be pitiful, but at least there will be reams of paper forms to fill out, and lots of waiting like the IRS, SS, Medicare, and other governmental failures. "

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Boscoe wrote on Aug 10, 2009 8:21 PM:

" Mac1974 says: "Obama suggests meetings between doctors and patients on a regular basis which will allow patients to finally decide exactly what they want to happen during the dying process."


Well, duh. Why does the government have to force this? If patients want to decide, why do they need a bloated government agency with reams of forms and graft and corruption forcing them to talk to their doctors? If they want to talk to their doctors, they should do it. They don't need Obama's permission nor some bureaucrat to get between patients and their doctors. "

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joytotheworld wrote on Aug 10, 2009 6:34 PM:

" Typical leftwing sheeple. The lefties are throwing it away slowly, but very surely. This is like a train wreck. You don't wanna see what Nobama will do next, but you have to watch.

This will only get worse. Alot of us don't want Socialism. "

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Byron W. wrote on Aug 10, 2009 6:22 PM:

" I think it may be time for the new revolution. "

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Byron W. wrote on Aug 10, 2009 6:21 PM:

" Mac1974 wrote "Obama suggests meetings between doctors and patients on a regular basis which will allow patients to finally decide exactly what they want to happen during the dying process."

It isn't Obama's business. It isn't government's business. If the government doesn't want to pay for a treatment, then don't. But we don't need this nonsense. And if Obama really thought this was a good idea now he could implement it in the Medicare & Medicaid program without overall takeover of the health care industry. Once governmnet can prove it can handle the problems it already has maybe then we can let them have halthcare. But we all know that won't ever happen. "

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Byron W. wrote on Aug 10, 2009 6:16 PM:

" Mac1974 wrote "You republicans are seriously just giving up. You realize this, right? You're just handing it over with this insane stuff."

Apparently you aren't paying attention. Your people are putting the nails in their own coffins. If they pass the health care nonsense you'll see 1994 all over agian. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Aug 10, 2009 6:04 PM:

" Folks want certain things to happen when they are in the process of dying. Right now, that's not happening for a lot of people.... doctors just aren't discussing these things with patients. Some people do have plans; however, those plans do change due to many different factors (health improvements, decline in health, personal beliefs, etc.).

Obama suggests meetings between doctors and patients on a regular basis which will allow patients to finally decide exactly what they want to happen during the dying process.

Sarah Palin refers to this as a death panel and says it's evil? "

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factsnodrama wrote on Aug 10, 2009 5:51 PM:

" Typical leftwing union thugs. Of course the aging hippie liberal ilk laugh, when it's not one of theirs who's rights are being violated. All too typical liberal facists.

LIberty and Justice for all. "

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Mac1974 wrote on Aug 10, 2009 4:26 PM:

" First Sarah Palin's "death panel" remarks ....... and now a black conservative with no health insurance claiming a bunch of libs beat him up?


good gawd!


You republicans are seriously just giving up. You realize this, right? You're just handing it over with this insane stuff. "

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sandhouse wrote on Aug 10, 2009 3:50 PM:

" My favorite part of all this....

Now this gentleman is accepting donations to cover his medical expenses because he doesn't have any health insurance.

LOLOL "

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NT webmaster wrote on Aug 10, 2009 3:03 PM:

" copcamaro- Please re-read the policies. Particularly the first rule. http://www.newstribune.com/forum_policies/ "

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