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Black drivers stopped at greater rates in Missouri

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By David A. Lieb
Associated Press

Published: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 6:58 PM CDT

Black motorists are significantly more likely than other drivers to be stopped by Missouri law enforcement officers -- a disparity that has grown greater during the past decade.

An annual demographic report on Missouri traffic stops released Monday shows that black drivers were 67 percent more likely than white or Hispanic drivers to be stopped in 2008.

That's just 1 percentage point higher than the previous year. But since Missouri became the first state to publish such a report in 2001, the racial disparity in traffic stops between blacks and whites has more than doubled.

"Absolutely, I think racial profiling is real," said Attorney General Chris Koster, whose office compiled the report on more than 1.6 million traffic stops made by 639 law enforcement agencies.

"But this report is not intended as a detailed explanation for what is occurring in any particular law enforcement agency," Koster added, "but as a catalyst for honest and informed discussion at the local levels."


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Thanks.

Amazed wrote on Jul 23, 2009 2:03 PM:

" Boscoe.

From 1976 to 2005 Blacks committed more that 52% of all murders in America.

The black homicide rate is 7 times higher that that of whites and Hispanics combined

Blacks commit 40% of all violent crime arrests, to include 57% of all robbery, 35% of all aggravated assaults, and 30% of all property crime arrests.

Blacks have a consistently lower chance of prosecution after being charged with a felony than whites do.

The race of a criminal reported by a crime victim matches arrest data on a yearly basis.

Our racial differences is in criminal offending, not racism.

Let the AA PC whiners begin. "

the1joncook wrote on Jul 13, 2009 7:12 PM:

" Though I understand some in this comment section do not approve of keeping these statistics, I for one think they are a good thing overall. We do live in a country that in many aspects is dominated by race and racial bias. It has not even been 50 years since the end of segregation. Things take time. I believe America continues to more forward, though at a halting pace, to purge itself of racial discrimination. Keeping these statistics harms no one. Attempting to understand these statistics may help us continue to move forward. "

boscoe wrote on Jun 15, 2009 4:07 PM:

" I'd like to see the break down by race of the officers making the stop. "

limerick54 wrote on Jun 14, 2009 11:51 PM:

" I sat around for a while the past few days, just watching cars zip by. Honestly, from the places that police "zap" cars with radar and so forth, they can't tell who is driving them at all. This is just dumb. "

boscoe wrote on Jun 14, 2009 10:57 PM:

" Mariab, what's YOUR OPINION as to why black drivers are stopped at a disproportionally higher rate?

Why are blacks incarcerated at a disproportionately higher rate?

What needs to be done to fix the disproportionality once and for all? "

mariab wrote on Jun 14, 2009 8:38 AM:

" I roll my eyes whenever people cite Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and OJ. Or when they point to Bill Cosby as the guy who tells it like it is about His People.

People seem to put their brains into neutral when it comes to viewing groups superficially different from them, such as actually believing that one or two people are THE spokesmen for an entire group that happens to share an exterior commonality, such as skin pigmentation (or religious denomination).

Who are the spokesmen for all white people? Rush Limbaugh? Michael Moore?

Who are the spokesmen for all (white) Christians? Pat Robertson?

Is Madonna THE Jewish representative? "

mariab wrote on Jun 14, 2009 8:15 AM:

" Crissy - You say you've never gotten rich off the backs of others? I'll go along with that, taking you at face value. But trust me, you and I, and just about everyone else in this community certainly do benefit off the backs of others' poor circumstances. We do this when we buy items made in certain countries. We do this when our purchase choices are driven primarily by low cost - and we don't care how they come to be at such a low cost.

I'm not accusing here - I'm as guilty as many are. The only possible difference between me and some is that I acknowledge it. "

wow wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:45 PM:

" Should read
" Facts, I appreciate our spirited discussion, if more people held such conversations without all the name calling, getting upset and telling people 2"shut the heck up" because 1person said this or that about the other or disagrees with a particular point of view. Then perhaps we'd be a bit better off on this issue of race. It's shameful when adults can't speak about critical issues without resorting 2childish outburst of immaturity. Once again "Facts" and the others who shared their views like responsible adults. It's because of this type of adult behavior that we can take comfort in helping things 2progress in a positive manor thus bettering our community for all. Thank you, enjoy life and stay safe " "

wow wrote on Jun 12, 2009 6:38 PM:

" Facts, I appreciate out spirited discussion, if more people held such conversations without all the name calling, getting upset and telling people 2"shut the heck up" because 1person said this or that about the other or disagrees with a particular point of view. Then perhaps we'd be a bit better off on this issue of race. It's shameful when adults can't speak about critical issues without resorting 2childish outburst of immaturity. Once again "Facts" and the others who shared their views like responsible adults. It's because of this type of adult behavior that we can take comfort in helping things 2progress in a positive manor thus bettering bettering our community for all. Thank you, enjoy life and stay "

crissyanthemum wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:53 PM:

" whoops, stomp your feet. "

crissyanthemum wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:52 PM:

" How can we fix things when all you want what's coming to you for all the suffering of others? You don't want to fix things and make this a better world. You want to whine and cry and stop your feet until everyone gives you everything you want.

Here's a cookie. Shut the heck up. "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 12, 2009 6:12 AM:

" And the key word is HISTORY. It's time to live in the now, and move forward. Reject the race baiters like Sharpton, and Jesse. Reject those who live off the misery of people they claim to represent. As long as that chip is on the shoulder, as long as the past is looked to for excuses you can't move forward. Living in the past has no future. "

WOW wrote on Jun 11, 2009 9:31 PM:

" History is full of these incidents where innocent people were hurt/killed due to ignorance and denial and I have no problem with educating you on these numerous "isolated incidents' ......but I'd much prefer to discuss the progress that has been made and how we can work together at moving toward finally fixing this mess we've inherited.

We have come along way...but as you can see, we still have a very long way to go.
Ok.....I'm out:) "

WOW wrote on Jun 11, 2009 9:23 PM:

" Bull Connor/State Trooper's attacked innocent people who by law had the right 2demonstrate/demand equality. Yet Big Bad Bull used his dog's-fire hoses-police 2beat down innocent people and in spite of all that news footage...neither Connor or any of those firemen, officer's or god old boyz doing their civic duty 2keep those darkies in their place, was even so much as arrested, let alone prosecuted 4their obvious criminal conduct.

GWallace defied a presidential order and shouted "segregation, now, tommorra! The killer's of Emmitt Teal confessed 2the murder and were not punished due 2some goofy technicality until years later.

A white women, Viola Liuzzo was killed by a Klansmen 4helping the marcher's during the 1965 Bloody Sunday incident.-Nobody-was-ever arrested-or-charged.

-Cont- "

wow wrote on Jun 11, 2009 9:01 PM:

" Twana was an isolated incident...my grandmother sheltering her kids while watching hooded goons beat my grandfather damn near to death for wearing a military uniform is an isolated incident, the Duke La-Cross Team was an isolated incident..I admit it whites have been victims.

But this just proves my point...ignorance is not restricted by skin color and we cannot accept the lie that racism or racist are only one race, age, sex, religion.

Jim Crow lasted from 1880 until 1960. I'm sure there were at last a few isolated incidents where a person was killed for trying to vote, get a meal, use the swimming pool, get an education. -Cont- "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:11 PM:

" Seems to me some poeple looks for excuses and isolated incidents to support their own racism. In that spirit, let me say one more thing.

Tawana Brawley. :>) "

wow wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:52 PM:

" If I simply agreed with a few of these negative "these people, invader's minorities are whining racist, comments, I'm sure that would make a few of you happy; however I'd prefer to voice my opinion. I know from experience racism is real and it didn't take the beating of Regional Denny or the recent death of Officer Stephens to convince me that we have some very sick people walking around this country. Regretfully these people out number the good people who understand what The United States of America" means. However-I'll-continue-working-with-anyone-who-is-working-for-a-better-tomorrow-for-everyone.

Good Cops don't engage in racial profiling and I appreciate these fine LEO's 4the job they do. May god bless them one and all.

Stay safe! "

wow wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:37 PM:

" NY late 80's 2 male Dr's are convicted of rape...the white Dr.raped an AA woman who was a former patient, the good Dr. was sentenced to probation, the AA Dr. raped a white women and this menacing animal was sentenced to 6consecutive life sentences.

In today's society statement s like "we already have a" (pick you poison) is the same as saying they (pick you poison) have advanced far enough, it's time to draw the line.

1987 Al Campanis's comment on air that "AA lack the necessities 2become successful MLB manager's.

The 2009 estate of Thomas Jefferson has yet to pay reparations to the 2009 Hennings family. Why is that?

1948 Exec-Order-9981-officially-ended-segregation-in-the-military-yet-as-late-as-the-1960's-blacks-were-being-beaten-and-killed-for-simply-wearing-a-US-military-uniform. Why is that-Cont- "

wow wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:13 PM:

" Crissy...I'll make so ta nebba agin say nutin bad bout ole Mr. Massa. Lord no's colored folks ain't nuttin but truble an needs ta b minded of day place.

Brown v Board happened in 1954, yet in Boston and many other places, school's were not actually integrated until at least 1974 and nobody got in trouble 4breaking the Federal Law directed by the US Supreme Court. Why is that?

Most people believe OJ either killed or was involved with the killings and IMO the evidence would've proven that. Yet Mark Furman tampered with the evidence...why? Didn't OJ deserve a fair trial? That's what Manson and McVeigh got and they killed a lot of people. -Cont- "

gofish wrote on Jun 11, 2009 4:06 PM:

" Face it. There is no justice. Those with the best lawyers who give campaign contributions to their favorite judges and tell the biggest lies win. Justice used to be a tradition. Now it is a mere formality. A judges rubber stamp on another day of legal wrangling by the bullies and the liars. The whole system is corrupt. And no, I don't have any solution, but prosecuting lawyers, cops, and judges who don't follow the law would be a good start. "

G.Willikers wrote on Jun 11, 2009 9:24 AM:

" crissy - You are a very wise individual. We need more people like you in society! "

crissyanthemum wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:27 AM:

" Wow - You list all the labels and tags that others use while using the label "non-white" yourself. You're a hypocrite and uneducated to real problems: a whiner in every definition.
I, for one, can tell you that my family has never owned a slave and/or gotten rich off of any other class of person. My Anglo-Saxon heritage was persecuted out of their homelands and came to America for freedom. My American Indian heritage was driven out of their lands and forced to conform to the "white man". Am I bitter? Am I seeking retribution? No. I realize that it was their suffering who made me who I am today. I honor their suffering, not hate it. "

midline wrote on Jun 10, 2009 8:41 PM:

" ok back to the profiling on stops, does'nt each car record what happens on tape ?
Can't we tell what most are stopped for on tape ? You know what I think this recording
race on stops will do, it will make officers gun shy to stop minorities for fear of being
called out for profiling, now that would be great, just another example of being forced
to do the wrong thing for fear of the card being used "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 10, 2009 6:24 AM:

" Uh wow, we didn't have 6 million blacks, and 5 million others rounded up and systematically killed since 1933, there are no others, other than the few high profile cases. Please specifically state who else you are talking about, with a real date, your quite irratic here. You yourself have throw around racially charged statements and acusations that only serve to bait and fan hate, looking rather typical from the left, quite an ordinary strategy. "

wow wrote on Jun 10, 2009 6:14 AM:

" Read some of the daily comments....phrases like..."inner city kids, illegal invader's, you people, those people, stealing our job's, etc, etc.....are filling the news headlines. It's scares me to think how easy people are being manipulated into the frenzy that the (whatever you choose) race is going to take over. It sounds like the advertisement for the "Birth of A Nation".

I agree it's not always about race, but in some case it is. All I can do is try...I understand/respect your view and hope you reciprocate in kind...if not, this back and fourth can go on without me and you will not make any positive progress.

I said my say.... "

wow wrote on Jun 10, 2009 5:59 AM:

" Ohhhh boy if you think prosecuting a few high profile murder cases equates to justice, then you are wrong. OJ walked and so the system is unfair, M-Vick get's convicted and suddenly he's the King-Pin of the violent underworld of Dog-Fighting. Do you really think since Obama is Pres., everything is fine? That's part of the problem.

I agree some non-whites are part of the problem; however the same can be said about some whites, but not enough people want to admit that. Also there are those who feel that because Obama is in the White House all is good...and buddie that just ain't so. -Cont- "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 9:25 PM:

" Peta needed a scapgoat tough break For Michael Vick, it sure wasn't because he was black. A black man mouths something racist today, he gets a second chance, a white man get crucified and ruined. Need an example? How about the racist Dusty Baker and for a similar statement Jimmy the Greek. Sodermyor statements, if that was anyone on the right they would be hounded by the liberal press, oh wait your on our side, well take a pass. You want what you want, start living what you preach, and apply the standards EQUALY. Now who's oppressed here? How about you start you witch hunt with Robert Byrd, then we'll know your for real. "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 9:16 PM:

" not true wow, we have gone after them, the ones that are left, Byron Delabeckwith comes to mind and the murder of Medgar Evers, for one. The Seale trial in 07, and many others have been pursued and are being pursued. Your uninformed.

As far a law being applied equaly, is it by class. Thats not fair, but it's still the best justice systemthe world has ever seen. Ask OJ if the system is fair? He killed two, had money and walked. Whats Kobie up to these days? Oh he walked too. Barkley been whoring lately on a drunk and he's still got his TV gig, all is forgiven. I can do this all night. "

wow wrote on Jun 9, 2009 7:13 PM:

" Factsnodrama you are partially correct "The Jews did the hunting and bringing to justice of the Nazi's" however America, Canada, Britain, France and several other nations helped. Why hasn't America cleaned it's on house. I understand that most of these Lynch Mobber's are dead or dieing, but the fact that the authorities have yet to realistically close un-prosecuted yet solve-able murder's is quite alarming.

No ya don't owe me anything extra...but it would be nice if the law was applied equally.

I am not asking for anything you yourself would not demand/have not already demanded.

Truly last comment...good discussion...thanks Mr. Editor. "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 7:01 PM:

" Peace. "

wow wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:56 PM:

" Factsnodrama...I'd love to see JJ busted for the mess he's been getting away with 4waaaaaay 2long. But so far nothing dirty sticks 2him....I mean not even the IRS can hang anything on em. He's rich, but has never worked or paid taxes....now that's only in America Bro.

You are right about the LA Rioter's, if technology can prove who did what, then let's get 2work, caue there are so many criminals of all races who need t2be introduced 2the justice system. Now that's economic stimulus at it's best.

And 2stay on topic...most cops do not conduct business/traffic stops based on anything except fact's and circumstances about that particular event.

Stay safe. "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:52 PM:

" AA good idea, after reading all this, I'd say that's about right. Maybe NA would help too. "

wow wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:45 PM:

" If ya get beyond the color thing, you'll see that AA, benefits everyone, not just a person of color.

Also, you asked why there is a minority focused anything...the answer is..."greedy white men" controlled most of the who, what, why, where, when and how. However since there has been a bit of progress now minorities have accumulated some perks and have started controlling a small portion of the who, what, why, where when and how. So now ya get the other side of things...in some case it's not right; however in some case it is right on point!

This topic started out about cops and racial profiling cards, What a rush, and I did enjoy the conversation..See ya, PTAMP's:) "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:42 PM:

" Maybe we should use biometrics and review all the riots and lock up those killers too. The LA riots would be a nice place to start. That would be ok right? lock up murderers? Jesse Jackson's and NAACP are partly responsible for the condition and action of poor blacks, including murder.

Give us Jesse and you can have the Hose holders, straight up. :>) "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:39 PM:

" wow wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:24 PM:

" Thumb through the archives and look and the strange fruit hangin from the trees and all those faces in plan view smiling for the camera...yet nobody get's prosecuted. If that's was, is to much to ask or expect, then how can you say racism is a thing of the past or minorities are the reason racism is still here today.

The Jews did the hunting and bringing to justice of the Nazi's, feel free to hunt down the....hose holders of the 60's don't recall any recent (lets say last 50 years) of anyone standing next to that strange fruit. Good luck rounding up the dead for your never ending racist witch hunt. "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:35 PM:

" wow wrote "Nobody has ever been hurt or killed at an AA, NAACP or UNCF event and everyone has always been invited to attend these functions." ....and your point is? "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:34 PM:

" wow wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:24 PM:

" Why didn't American's go after those who participated in the all to common and accepted "Lynch Mobs" of the 40's, 50's and 60's

Uh they did, thats why we have progressed.

Hey was OJ innocent of the double murder? "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:32 PM:

" wow wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:08 PM:

Just ask the victims of WWII how important reparations were/are. If ya family got rich due to ill gotten gains, then yes your grandchildren are gonna have to pay up! <---what in the world are U talking about?

4. Since when is there a statute of limitations on murder....uh since the suspects are dead!!!...and slavery isn't the only crime greedy white men committed..lets not forget the greedy spanish, portugese, Moores, Africans, Japanese, and the human rights kings the Chinese

how about the years of segregation and lynching's that occurred in 1940's, 50' and 60's they are still murder's aren't they? Please ID "THEY" smacks of racism itself. "

wow wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:24 PM:

" Why didn't American's go after those who participated in the all to common and accepted "Lynch Mobs" of the 40's, 50's and 60's in the same manor that the Nazi's were prosecuted. Thumb through the archives and look and the strange fruit hangin from the trees and all those faces in plan view smiling for the camera...yet nobody get's prosecuted. If that's was, is to much to ask or expect, then how can you say racism is a thing of the past or minorities are the reason racism is still here today.

Nobody has ever been hurt or killed at an AA, NAACP or UNCF event and everyone has always been invited to attend these functions. -Cont- "

wow wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:08 PM:

" 1.My earlier comment addresses the bigger picture of racism and points blame for this ilk in all directions.

2. Statements such as "people like you, you people, inner city kids, the racist minorities, illegal invaders", simply amplify the magnitude of the problem.

3. Just ask the victims of WWII how important reparations were/are. If ya family got rich due to ill gotten gains, then yes your grandchildren are gonna have to pay up!

4. Since when is there a statute of limitations on murder...and slavery isn't the only crime greedy white men committed..how about the years of segregation and lynching's that occurred in 1940's, 50' and 60's they are still murder's aren't they? -Cont- "

gofish wrote on Jun 9, 2009 5:02 PM:

" BTW, for my posts, insert any minority culture you want, not just color or ethnicity, but also "alternative lifestyles", religions, etc. "

gofish wrote on Jun 9, 2009 5:01 PM:

" Mac1974 wrote " Boscoe asked, "What happened to "BE COLORBLIND"? "

For most of us, nothing happened to that idea, Boscoe. The ability for all of us to be 'colorblind' is the ultimate goal."

My point exactly. If you say that we should be color blind (i.e. treat everyone equal), the racist minorities will scream to the high hills that being "color blind" rejects their "culture" and that the "real" goal is for you to respect their diversity, not try to lump it into the proverbial melting pot.

That is until a report like this comes out and then the diverse interests want equality, don't judge me because of my color. "

maxheadroom wrote on Jun 9, 2009 9:37 AM:

" Excellent points da'lake have'nt seen affirmative action help native american indians much
NAACP, is imo about trying to further the rights of one group of people , oh sure they
have cases for other groups even gay rights, but look who runs the national and local
chapters, all you need to see there "

@da'lake wrote on Jun 9, 2009 9:21 AM:

" You want to talk about mistreatment....let's talk about the Native Americans. Why is it always just the "one" specific race that we are trying to pacify? The othe thing that annoys me to no end is why is it okay to have racist organizations and programs (NAACP, Affirmative Action, UNCF, etc.) to try to undo past racism? Continuing racist programs in the name of trying to overcome racism is just ludicrous. "

maxheadroom wrote on Jun 9, 2009 9:13 AM:

" I would also have to say that I disagree that racism exsists because of lack of punish
ment, punishment does not deter crime and hate. There are many factors socially that
contribute to racism , and I don't think one of them is because of lack of punishment
read any new Sociology and Culture text on Ethnocentrism "

maxheadroom wrote on Jun 9, 2009 9:10 AM:

" behavior or expected preferential treatment ..IMHO "

maxheadroom wrote on Jun 9, 2009 9:10 AM:

" I agree with factsnot drama , how do you punish dead men ? And is it proper to
punish a current generation that is not , just to acquire justice. And if justice is achieved
through reperations does that make racism go away ? Does it also perpetuate the I
deserve what ever I want because my ancestors were discriminated against attitude .
Does it stop the only reason I'm in trouble is my skin color not my behavior excuse ?
No one is arguing what happened in the past or that it was entirely wrong, what many
are saying , is that it has become a cop out for people not being accountable for poor "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 9, 2009 7:30 AM:

" The white men you speak of are dead and gone, when will people like you get over it? Or should my white grandchildren born in the last few years be labeled greedy and be punished? YHO, is about worthless. "

wow wrote on Jun 9, 2009 7:15 AM:

" Let's get this right, racism exists today because greedy white-men have gone unpunished 4the deaths of 100,000,000 innocent lives. Not 2mention far 2many from all walks of life have played the "race card" 4the wrong reason. Ala "the black man did it" or they don't like, hire, treat me fair, promote me, etc, etc cause I'm (choose your poison).

Cultural Diversity exists, because the people able and willing 2do something positive 2solve the issue of race remain in the minority.

Until that changes and those that have lost their lives due 2racism are respected as much as those who have faithfully served this nation, regretfully racism will/does still exist.

Now....IMHO....that's the real deal. "

maxheadroom wrote on Jun 8, 2009 8:44 PM:

" Excellent post gofish and amazed , high five worthy. I'm so sick and tired of the card
as we call it, being used to explain unethical/ illegal behavior as an excuse. Yes
we all know the stories of racism and injustice in the past , it was wrong, we know
that and get it . But this perpetuation of claiming it is the reason certain people get in
trouble , is only making it worse as far as people getting to a color blind society
Boscoe I think your posts hit the nail on the head as well "

Deputydog wrote on Jun 8, 2009 6:41 PM:

" Most of the time you can't even see what race the driver is until they are stopped. Second you are all making this a black/white issue, what you are failing to realize is that a large percentage of the officers this article talks about are black themselves. The report doesn't state white officers are 67% more likely to pull over black motorists. Bottom line is as a police officer you stop people for breaking the law, white, black, hispanic, asian, whatever. "

boscoe wrote on Jun 8, 2009 1:39 PM:

" No racism here. Its all about behavior. A jerk is a jerk, regardless of the color.

I don't give bad behavior a pass because of race either. To do so would be racist in and of itself, as well as very demeaning and condescending. "

Amazed wrote on Jun 8, 2009 1:18 PM:

" Awesome post gofish. "

Amazed wrote on Jun 8, 2009 1:17 PM:

" Actually mac it those of your ilk which gives the rest of us a measuring stick on what we are facing in the rush to denormalize and socialize this country. The fact that there are those out there like you is not only scary it is reality check on what things could be like if we let you go unchallened. The fact that you feel the rest of society owes you everything while you are requried to contribute nothing is the real issue here. The stats on drivers does nothing to contain racism but merely inflames it. Blacks get angry and whites become more entrenched in their views that the Double A and PC principles are still alive and well. "

G.Willikers wrote on Jun 8, 2009 11:05 AM:

" Mac...you are mistaken. It is YOU liberals that make sure color is brought to the forefront even if it is a nonissue. Obama is of black & white parentage, so why do the dems label him as the first BLACK president? It is always about color with your type. I'd be willing to bet that 95% or more of the cops do not care or even notice what race a person is when the stop is initiated. Stops are made as a result of illegal activity. It is only AFTER a violation has occurred and the stop made that race is recorded. These stats do NOTHING to show anything other than the race of the driverAFTERthestopismade. "

Mac1974 wrote on Jun 8, 2009 10:14 AM:

" Boscoe asked, "What happened to "BE COLORBLIND"? "

For most of us, nothing happened to that idea, Boscoe. The ability for all of us to be 'colorblind' is the ultimate goal. With that said, racism still exists and thrives, and keeping a tab of who gets pulled over is simply a tool to keep the racism in check.

Frankly, it doesn't hurt anything. It simply offends some of you who would rather see racism continued. I understand that.

I expect some of you to be angry. Those of you who are angry provide a good measuring stick so the rest of us know what is and what is not appropriate.

I thank you for that. "

gofish wrote on Jun 8, 2009 9:12 AM:

" Racism exists where the minority doesn't get preferential treatment.

Cultural Diversity exists when the minority wants or gets preferential treatment.

Racism exists because either way it benefits the minority cause.

Remove "racism" and you will have a level playing field where everyone gets what they earn, good or bad. "

gofish wrote on Jun 8, 2009 9:10 AM:

" traceyt wrote "How can we ever treat people like race doesn't matter when we constantly remind them that it does matter by asking them what race they are? "

Racism continues to exist because it is USED by the minorities to gain an unfair advantage in situations where it can be used to help them.

1) If we are talking about the non-acceptable behaviors of a certain minority we have it thrown in our face that we should "celebrate" diversity, be culturally competent, and respectful of their "differences"

2) If you then identify and point out their race - - even through traffic stops that's being racist "

naturally wrote on Jun 8, 2009 8:32 AM:

" That courts are more sympathetic to women and gender biased? Or did you want the, 'more men are criminals' one? "

mariab wrote on Jun 7, 2009 7:30 AM:

" Boscoe, where in the world do you get your info that the 'majority of criminals in the U.S. are black'?

Are you going by prison stats? By particular types of crime? Or pulling this out of the air?

While you're thinking on that, I did go take a look at prison stats. Interesting. Ninety-three percent of all sentenced prisoners (nationwide) in 2006 were men. What do you infer from that? "

traceyt wrote on Jun 7, 2009 1:05 AM:

" I don't know where I first heard the idea, but I find the idea interesting and relevant that racism will never be able to die until we quit requiring people to categorize themselves racially every time they have contact with the government. How can we ever treat people like race doesn't matter when we constantly remind them that it does matter by asking them what race they are? "

boscoe wrote on Jun 6, 2009 3:08 PM:

" The whining now is by blacks who are having to see exactly what everyone has known for a long long time: The majority of the criminals in the United States are black.

The black communuty needs to clean up its own racial problems before it starts spouting about the behaviors of people of other races. "

boscoe wrote on Jun 6, 2009 3:05 PM:

" Mac1974 wrote: I'm sorry..... that's just completely ignorant! Race IS being tracked BECAUSE they want to know whether or not police ARE being RACIST in their decisions of who gets pulled over!!!!!!! What's the problem? What is it about this simple fact that you rednecks can't seem to get? You're whining now because the results verify what you didn't want to believe."

Uh, Mac, what you don't seem to get is that race was never a factor UNTIL you start making cops judge and record the race of who is getting stopped. By indicating the race of people, the profile cards are RACIST in themselves.

What happened to "BE COLORBLIND"? "

nospinzone wrote on Jun 6, 2009 2:47 PM:

" it is what it is........... If you are not following traffic laws /motor vehicle licensing laws,
have a warrant out , I don't care what your color of skin is or the percentages you
should get pulled over . This has been an issue in schools too. Concerned citizens group
worrying about certain skin colors getting punished more , if they are being punished for
behavior unwarranted, so be it . Prove the punishement is unwarrented if you believe this.
80 per cent of all disciplinary actions in schools comes from ten per cent of the school
population, look it up . Its hard to say that is profiling when this small gropu makes up most
of the years suspensions "

jetplt wrote on Jun 6, 2009 1:30 PM:

" STOP BREAKING THE LAW AND YOU WON'T GET INTO TROUBLE!!! IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!! GEEZ... "

traceyt wrote on Jun 6, 2009 1:37 AM:

" The report says it best when it repeatedly says that it cannot be used (by itself) to make a reasonable judgement of whether racial profiling is being used.

Per the report...
Statewide Findings section.. "A reasoned determination of the existence of racial profiling in a community requires a comprehensive evaluation of the full range of information compiled in the agency reports"

Attorney General's analysis.. "Statistical disproportion does not prove that law enforcement officers are making vehicle stops based on the perceived race or ethnicity of the driver."

"Four summary indicators are included in Table 1 that may be useful in initiating further assessments of racial profiling in vehicle stops." "

traceyt wrote on Jun 6, 2009 1:36 AM:

" Simon,
Thanks for the link. I didn't believe that the reason for the stop is not recorded, although by focusing only on "race", that is the impression that is usually given when these reports are cited (including the Attorney General).

Having a third party make an arbitrary decision of what race the driver is also makes a mockery of the data.
Not knowing the race of the officer could also distort the numbers. "

traceyt wrote on Jun 6, 2009 12:59 AM:

" mac said "!Race IS being tracked BECAUSE they want to know whether or not police ARE being RACIST in their decisions of who gets pulled over!!!!!!!"

I would say that it is ignorant to track and evaluate (only) the race of those stopped to determine whether if racism was the reason because this data is not sufficient to make an accurate determination of racism. It is even more ignorant to ignore reality and continue to act like the data is sufficient for this purpose. If it were true that where 10% of the population is black, exactly 10% of crimes are committed by Blacks, this data would be great but it isn't that simple.

I_never_said_that_racism_doesn't_exist_in_LE,_and_you_couldn't_be_more_wrong_in calling_me_a_redneck,_unless_I_was_black. Then_again,_it_would_seem_from_your post_that_facts_and_reality_aren't_of_consequence_in_your_logic_or_arguments. "

Simon wrote on Jun 5, 2009 11:28 PM:

" Here's the web site to get the answers. ago.mo.gov/racialprofiling/racialprofiling.htm City by city, County by county stats on all stops, arrest, searches, warning, citations ect. "

Simon wrote on Jun 5, 2009 11:21 PM:

" Quick question. Has anyone on this board seen the report that was quoated in the article. Has anyone on this board seen a Racial Profiling card. Most questions and comments on this board would be answered with just a little investigation. "

Factsnodrama wrote on Jun 5, 2009 10:22 PM:

" Some people just don't want to be taken seriously.

Back to the subject, profiling can be (and is) used as an effective tool in police work. These stats are a leftover from the 80's and need to be put on the liberal trash heap. Guess they will change when better parenting and responsibility run rampent in the black community. We could talk about other groups, however the subject today is black. "

mariab wrote on Jun 5, 2009 9:31 PM:

" F-N-D ... I would agree that it is not appropriate to call someone an ex-convict while he is incarcerated. "

factsnodrama wrote on Jun 5, 2009 8:10 PM:

" Another liberal, more name calling. "

Mac1974 wrote on Jun 5, 2009 7:23 PM:

" traceyt wrote, " Instead of tracking the race of the suspect, maybe the police should record the reason for stopping the suspect,"

I'm sorry..... that's just completely ignorant! Race IS being tracked BECAUSE they want to know whether or not police ARE being RACIST in their decisions of who gets pulled over!!!!!!!

What's the problem? What is it about this simple fact that you rednecks can't seem to get?

You're whining now because the results verify what you didn't want to believe.

PERIOD!!!! "

Factsnodrama wrote on Jun 5, 2009 7:16 PM:

" Who's stirring the pot now?

The only thing I've done is point out the joy of being liberal, accusing others while using the same to attack conservatives. Facts, no drama. I agree, don't screw up. While were at it, don't use race as an excuse for bad behavior and poor life choices. Unless you can pay your debt like Libby and then become a multi-millionaire best selling author and radio host! "

limerick54 wrote on Jun 5, 2009 6:58 PM:

" Factsnodrama: Isn't someone that has been convicted a "Convict" regardless of ethnicity? You seem like a person that stirs the pot just to rile people, in spite of your name on here. And you're right, once you're convicted of a crime, that mark follows you always. Oh well, too bad, so sad. . don't screw up. "

Factsnodrama wrote on Jun 5, 2009 6:09 PM:

" mariab you used "ex convict" ( a term not used even when he was incarcerated). He's one of the most interesting Americans of the 20th century, and you LABEL him, and insult all offenders with the word convict? With all your liberal views expressed on this forum, I think you should admit your mistake in a weak moment of hate and move on. Or are the 15,000 blacks in Mo correctional centers today CONVICTS, and apparently by your standards CONVICTS for life. Arnt blacks pulled over in dispreportionate numbers being so because they are LABELED?

Convict? Sounds like word a Sheriff from segregated Alabama would use back in the 40's. "

keli wrote on Jun 5, 2009 12:34 PM:

" fair enough mariab..I can see that point..

It is unfortunate that there is not more factors that the statistics are citing...like already stated by many other posters. There would be a greater understanding of if it is racism or not...However, I do take up issue with the Black guy with gold rims, thumpin sound system, thug life stereotype taking up issue with "whitey always keeping him down" LOL (famous homer simpson quote)... when he knows he stands out as a stereotype...Not to say people should dress a certain way to avoid police but it is commonly known crimes are commited by thugs. If you are not a thug don't dress and act like one and you will be left alone... "

mariab wrote on Jun 5, 2009 12:11 PM:

" Keii, you're mixing apples and oranges.

As you say, if you don't commit a crime, you generally wouldn't need an attorney - ENERALLY.

What I'm talking about are situations in which the parties DID commit a crime, but the person who can't afford an attorney is far more likely to do prison time than the person (who also committed the crime) who CAN afford an attorney. "

mariab wrote on Jun 5, 2009 12:08 PM:

" Factsnodrama - Yes, Liddy was FBI and military ... which made his crime all the more egregious, in my mind. Made me wonder what he did during his FBI and military tenures that ran counter to the ideals of those establishments (and counter to our rights and freedoms). "

rambletamble wrote on Jun 5, 2009 11:24 AM:

" Where are the numbers for those vehicles with Ron Paul stickers on them?

:)> "

traceyt wrote on Jun 5, 2009 10:09 AM:

" For the press members out there, how about an article comparing the stop rates, ticket/arrest rates, and conviction rates for each of these groups. It would be much more useful to know the disposition of the stops. For example, if 80% of hispanics that are stopped are not ticketed, then maybe racism is around. If 80% of tickets issued to hispanics are thrown out, then maybe racism is around. If 40% of whites that are stopped are ticketed, but 90% of stopped hispanics are ticketed, then maybe racism is around. Would probably have to break it down by race of the officer also. Those statistics could actually be insightful instead of just being inciteful. "

traceyt wrote on Jun 5, 2009 10:02 AM:

" Instead of tracking the race of the suspect, maybe the police should record the reason for stopping the suspect, along with a statement by the suspect of whether the suspect feels that they are being unfairly targeted. In situations where the suspect feels that the officer stopped them because of racism or some other inappropriate stereotype, an impartial arbitrator could come out and oversee the situation. That way, if someone was ticketed or arrested because of racism, there would be an impartial third party viewpoint on whether the action was unjustified, at the time of the incident.

Would probably be unfeasible in real life, but at least the result would be more useful than the worthless information that is collected now. "

traceyt wrote on Jun 5, 2009 9:52 AM:

" mariab makes a good point. The fact is that low socio-economic areas tend to have more minorities than higher socio-economic areas. Race has nothing to do with it. Instead of tracking race, we should track the socio-economic level of the people that are being stopped. Clearly, there is no racial targeting going on, it is socio-economic targeting. :-) "

keli wrote on Jun 5, 2009 8:53 AM:

" And I don't feel as though it is race that is being profiled rather social choices and thug lifestyle...If you dress, behave and act like a thug then guess what? You will be targeted...Thugs break the law, it is a FACT so I say keep up the good work LE and pull anyone black white or green that is dressed or behaving like a thug....

IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK AND TALKS LIKE A DUCK!!!! Pull the duck over, arrest it, and let our tax dollars pay their way "out of trouble" "

keli wrote on Jun 5, 2009 8:50 AM:

" mariab wrote "Two, the lower socio-economic level you are, the less likely you are to be able to afford an attorney to keep you out of prison"

I have to disagree...they probably can't afford an atty to keep them out of prison, neither can I. However I don't need to, I don't break the LAW!!! If they you obey the law then you don't need shell out money you don't have for an atty to "get you out of trouble" You should be doing that on your own!!! "

HorseGlue4u wrote on Jun 5, 2009 7:35 AM:

" If you are breaking the law...listen up...it doesn't MATTER what color you are. Those that choose the "race" card are the usual cowards whom cannot think of anything intelligent to say , just to hide behind the skirt tails of ignorance. While I am at it... GET OFF the cell phone while driving, I'll sue you,too. "

Factsnodrama wrote on Jun 5, 2009 6:43 AM:

" For the record, since you CHOSE the EX-CONVICT label, along with other name calling. Mr. Liddy is also an EX-FBI, EX-Army Officer, current radio host, author, commercial host, and actor.

Some people are only liberal when they feel like it, how convienient. I think the article is suggesting the Police may have the same bias towards blacks that some people have towards former offenders. I guess 35 years living as a productive citizen can't erase one sentence served at a correctional institution back in the 1970's.... "

mariab wrote on Jun 5, 2009 5:45 AM:

" Hah! Good response, Naturally.

To the oxymoronically-named Factsnodrama: How in the world am I discrediting Liddy (and recklessly so, no less) by referring to the fact that he was convicted of a felony and served time in prison? For me, that fact goes into the mix, along with Liddy's high-drama, childish, personalized rants against others .... at the end of the day, I don't think he's much different now than he was as a criminal. "

Factsnodrama wrote on Jun 4, 2009 10:02 PM:

" G. Gordon's autobiography is outstanding (out of print, but available) What an interesting life, and what an entertainer. G, certainly presents an old world sense that is sadly missing these days. Intelligent, excentric, and funny. Like cow bell, we need more G. Gordon Liddy. Like all the black "ex-convicts" <---politically incorrect term wrecklessly used by Mariab to hate on and discredit Liddy, I don't think we need to label, he served his time, payed his debt, and pays more than his share of taxes. Bet he even gets pulled over now and then, driving while conservative. "

joytotheworld wrote on Jun 4, 2009 7:35 PM:

" Seems fair to me. Great job! "

naturally wrote on Jun 4, 2009 6:17 PM:

" Never said I admired him, I was simply attempting to answer your question about what some people believe a liberal is.
I think that's hilarious about Sotomayor's PMS, tasteless yes but funny. The more likely problem I'd be concerned about with her would be menapause. Would she start acting like Pelosi?
I hadn't heard that, thanks for the laugh. "

aswell wrote on Jun 4, 2009 6:04 PM:

" Glad the law enforcement doing its job,more power to them "

mariab wrote on Jun 4, 2009 5:31 PM:

" Naturally, I'm intrigued that you choose to quote (evidently in admiration) ex-convict (G. Gordon Liddy).

Do you also share his misogynist views, given his recent quote about Sotomayor: 'Let's hope that the key conferences aren't when she's menstruating or something, or just before she's going to menstruate. That would really be bad. ...'

ODF, you said, in response to my request for your definition of 'liberal': '... Mariab - I will save us both some time. I have read your posts....you are obviously a left-wing liberal. And racial...as in anti-white... '

All I can say is - oh, for heaven's sake. "

mariab wrote on Jun 4, 2009 4:45 PM:

" Naturally, you said: '...You have to believe that the only reason socialism and communism haven't worked anywhere it's been tried, is because the right people haven't been in charge. .........unlike humanitarian socialists like Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Hugo Chavez and a host of other sociaists...'

Were the right people in charge when we were best buds with Stalin, Hussein, Noriega, Somoza, and other 'humanitarians'? "

unperfect wrote on Jun 4, 2009 4:40 PM:

" Yes, Amazed! that is what I was trying to say earlier. You just said it much better than I. We need more info and analysis. "

overqualified wrote on Jun 4, 2009 4:22 PM:

" Amazed - Good points! I was reading in the Post Dispatch this morning about this. In predominantly black neighborhoods, whites are pulled over at disproportionate percentages. The numbers in this report tell us nothing. Also this article says nothing about the stops being justified or not. If people are committing a crime, the police are doing their job by pulling them over. Race has nothing to do with it. "

Amazed wrote on Jun 4, 2009 4:22 PM:

" I haven't seen the 09 report yet but the 08 report shows 5 times as many whites were stopped as blacks, whites were arrested 3 times more than blacks were, and white were searched 3 times more than blacks. Where's that headline? "

overqualified wrote on Jun 4, 2009 4:19 PM:

" Actually ODF, I agreed with your positions in the beginning. This report is ridiculous from a statistical point of view. And I think Mariab speaks the truth too in her socio-economic arguments. Then what you said was (and I'm paraphrasing here):

"You don't agree with me so you are a white-hating liberal".

That doesn't seem very 'smart' to me, ODF. As a matter of fact it seems ignorant and childish. And who was 'mud slinging' and 'racist' in that post? You. By your own definition, you must be a HUGE liberal. "

Amazed wrote on Jun 4, 2009 4:10 PM:

" I'd like to some more variables added to this inflamatory and unproven stat. For instance, why dont we see who drives more miles, if blacks drive less miles then its credible, lets see who has more drivers licenses in the study, black or white drivers, lets see what the percentage of arrests are from these stops, lets do the variables. Like if a black driver is stopped in an all white county then the % is 100. I'd also like to know the race of the officer. Lets see if black officers stop more whites than blacks, lets see if white officers stop more blacks. 67% tells us absolutely nothing because we dont know the number base. "

ODF wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:57 PM:

" Bwahahahhahaa.....once again the liberals the liberals show their strength....racism and mud slinging! LOL!

Mariab put out there an example, lame as it was, with race being the only variable. I sufficiently countered that by adding in many other variables independent of race and the best you can do is attempt to summarily judge the "smartness" of people. My daddy's smarter than your daddy. ROFLMAO.

I suspect that your name is an attempt to compensate for your LACK of qualifications. See, i can play liberal and sling mud too!! But hey, thanks for the laugh anyway...... "

overqualified wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:41 PM:

" ODF said: I have read her comments on here.....I stand by my opinion.

And I have read yours, and stand by mine. "

overqualified wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:36 PM:

" Naturally - I don't think you can really argue against that. Poor people, white or black, commit more crimes than people in higher income brackets. Money trouble breeds desperation and lack of respect for the law. You don't normally see lawyers and doctors running shirtless and drunk down the road on 'Cops' do you? Redistribution of wealth" the way you're thinking is not the answer (welfare, hand-outs, etc.) but surely something can be done. "

ODF wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:33 PM:

" BTW overqualified, be sure and call Naturally out as less educated than Mariab as well since it appears he holds the same opinion of her that I do.

BTW UNqualified, in case you can't read there is NO argument of mine that she "trashed", as you put it. In fact, it was HER example that was "trashed" because she is trying to play the race card without putting ANY other logical thought into her lame-a**ed example. Seems to me it is probably you and mariab that need to brush up on your education....or at least your reading skills! LOL! "

ODF wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:30 PM:

" LOL!! Do you know me? Didn't think so, so you have ZERO knowledge, information or proof of who is smarter. Know crawl back in your incredibly uninformed hole.

I have read her comments on here.....I stand by my opinion. At least I have a basis for my opinion...you, you are just truly clueless. If it wasn't so sad it'd be down right funny. "

naturally wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:20 PM:

" I'm not just picking on you mariab - its meant for all those who believe this is a result of socio-economic differences and that it can be solved through income redistribution. "

naturally wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:05 PM:

" The following link actually refers a lot to Mac1974, especially number 36 and 40. It may be a little over the top for your run-of-the-mill socialist wannabee. "

naturally wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:03 PM:

" h-t-t-p alohahawaii.home.att net/leftwing.html
You have to believe that the only reason socialism and communism haven't worked anywhere it's been tried, is because the right people haven't been in charge. .........unlike humanitarian socialists like Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Hugo Chavez and a host of other socialists who raped, tortured, maimed and slaughtered their own people in the name of "income redistribution" [ala Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Lyndon Johnson and Barack Hussein Obama], political and economic advancement for the "plight" of the downtrodden.
Remember, "A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." ~ G. Gordon Liddy "

overqualified wrote on Jun 4, 2009 2:54 PM:

" Wow, ODF, because someone's smarter than you and can trash your poor arguments with well thought-out reason they're an anti-white liberal? I agree this report is rubbish, and if someone's breaking the law they should be held accountable, regardless of race. But some of the racist, yes racist, comments from some of you guys make me ashamed to live in Jeff City. "

stop wrote on Jun 4, 2009 2:32 PM:

" You talk about how many of the thugs dress, well wearing your pants down so you underware shows is called sagging and it was originally a form of flagging to indicate homosexuality.

real tuff guys "

ODF wrote on Jun 4, 2009 2:12 PM:

" Sorry.....this "And racial...as in anti-white... " should have read "racist....as in anti-white".

It's funny that liberals care about every race OTHER than caucasian. Not only do they care about the other races, they actually support anti-white racism....NAACP, UNCF, Black Caucus, etc., etc., etc.. "

ODF wrote on Jun 4, 2009 1:52 PM:

" Because a disproportionate # of drivers of a certain race were pulled over does NOT mean they were pulled over because of their race. To assert this "report" shows that MO law enforcement is racially biased and that is the reason for the traffic stops is ludicrous.

Mariab - I will save us both some time. I have read your posts....you are obviously a left-wing liberal. And racial...as in anti-white... "

rojo wrote on Jun 4, 2009 1:45 PM:

" Ever since the Racial Profiling law went into effect, EVERY attorney general has used the reports as an easy way to gain access to the press. When the law was passed, it flew through both the house and senate with very few dissenting votes as an appeasement to the "Black Caucus". The whole thing is flawed but it will never change because to question its validity is to risk being labeled "racist".

Either probable cause exists or it doesn't. Good, solid enforcement of all laws makes for a safe society. Even mentioning "race" is racist. This country has more important, pressing problems than wasting time compiling partial statistics. "

blueknight wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:59 PM:

" Crime and traffic violations do not occur in the same ratios as the population demographics.

Soon, a department will have to stop issuing tickets based on the race of the driver, because they have exceeded the number of allowable tickets for that specific group of people.

"You're lucky sir. I cant issue you this ticket until I stop 4 more caucasions, 2 hispanics, and 1 asian, and give them tickets too."

This whole report is BS. "

mariab wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:22 PM:

" What's the difference between 'loitering' and hanging out on a corner talking, joking, enjoying each other's company?

Are people in 'good' neighborhoods loitering when neighbors hang out on the street chatting? "

average_joe wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:19 PM:

" If I were a drug dealing gangster, I wouldn't go aroung looking like one unless I wanted to be pulled over. I would avoid the hat to one side, pants down, flashing gang signs with my stereo on playing gangster rap like a billboard and like the gangster videos portray. If you look like a thug, then you will be suspected as being a thug. That's just good observation and police work. But then again, that's just me. "

that one guy wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:17 PM:

" people love to argue :) "

mariab wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:16 PM:

" ODF - How about sharing your definition of 'liberal' so I can decide if I am one? "

mariab wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:15 PM:

" Stop ... I like your snake analogy. Only a small percentage of snakes are poisonous (or otherwise dangerous), but many people kill all snakes or run away from them on sight - any snake. "

average_joe wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:14 PM:

" I don't think that the results of this study should be taken as a reason why their is a high percentage rate of black people being pulled over, although that was probably the reason that this study was implicated in the first place. I see it as, their are more black people giving reason to be pulled over.
White or black, if you look like a gangster, then you probably are. If you look like a pot head, then you probably are. If you are dressed like a nun, then you probably are. If you are dressed like a biker, then you probably are. If you dress like a crip or blood, than you probably are a gangster. "

KnZ'smom wrote on Jun 4, 2009 11:49 AM:

" I never said it was OK to pull them over for that reason. I was refering to Mariabs statment about people assuming all young black men are scary "

unperfect wrote on Jun 4, 2009 11:48 AM:

" Anyway...
I wish this article gave more information. I would like to know the race population in certain areas versus the race of people who were pulled over. I would also like to know the number of people pulled over in higher vs. lower socio-economic areas. I think the data could be analyzed a bit further to give us some real information. I don't think we should just look at race but look at socio-economic level as well.
If the data is only being used as reported in this article, then I would agree it is a waste of time and money. There is so much we can learn from this data. "

unperfect wrote on Jun 4, 2009 11:40 AM:

" you should not have to impress LE to not get pulled over. You should just have to not be committing a crime.

Let's replace baggy pants with mom jeans and a holiday sweater. Replace slang with a hick accent. Replace the ghetto ride with an SUV. All those things personally scare me. I avoid those people because I do not like their behavior. Besides, there is a rise in moms who pop prescription pills and that is a crime.
Now, if I, as LE, pulled people over that fit that description, just because it scared me or did not impress me, wouldn't that seem absolutely ridiculous? Saying it is ok to pull someone over who fits-the"thug"appearance-is-equally-as-ridiculous. "

KnZ'smom wrote on Jun 4, 2009 11:27 AM:

" It is not illegal to dress a certain way, nor should it be. Thad does not mean it does not make you look more suspicious. I base my sterotype on people I have known, no sterotyping is not right, but it's a fact of life. You have to dress to impress. "

unperfect wrote on Jun 4, 2009 11:23 AM:

" who gets to decide which appearance = questionable character? Since when was it illegal to own a $500 car with $5000 wheels? When did it become illegal to wear baggy pants? If it is, please cite my white grandpa. He can never keep those things up!
Silly behavior, maybe. Illegal, no. Last time I checked, you could not be pulled over unless you were doing something ILLEGAL, not something silly.

Where did you see these black people flashing gang signs? I've never seen it. I have, however, witnessed massive amounts of white teens flashing false gang signs. "

KnZ'smom wrote on Jun 4, 2009 11:18 AM:

" Male+baggy pants+tatoos+ piercings + staring+ plus tugg walking = scary to me. Color has nothing to do with it. If I am walking down the street and approached by a group of black men who are wearing collered shirts, and dressed nice I will not be scared. If I am walking down the street and I see a group of white boys wearing wife beaters, baggy pants, walking with a limp, talking slang, I am going to cross the street and walk on the other side. that is call Sterotyping not racism!! "

ODF wrote on Jun 4, 2009 10:35 AM:

" ...or you could even leave the race completely out of your little scenario. Any groups of people that appear to be loitering and of questionable character, IMO, are worthy of exercising caution around. "

sillyrabbit wrote on Jun 4, 2009 9:44 AM:

" Most of these thugs have their windows tinted anyway so I'm not sure how the officer would know exactly the race of the operator of the vehicle. "

ODF wrote on Jun 4, 2009 9:30 AM:

" Mariab - Why is it that liberals always focus on race, and race alone. Let's expound your example, and this based on my opinion.

Young male + black + nicely dressed or in tie does NOT = fear for me.

Young male + black + gang signs, baggy pants + loitering on a corner with others will = concern and heighten awareness.

It's not always about color...it is usually about attitudes, appearances other than race and general environment.

We could also change the environment....say Taco Bell on Mo Blvd. over lunch vs. on the east side of town at 1:00am. Liberals need to quit playing the race card and start THINKING. "

naturally wrote on Jun 4, 2009 9:08 AM:

" mariab - I didn't read your entire comment because you started off on the same misconception that the report concludes.
The cars are not being stopped because there is a black man behind the wheel. They are being stopped because they are in an area of high crime. The officers are in greater concentration in these areas. Officer sees car make traffic violation, pulls it over, and ...wala!... there is a black man behind the wheel.

It never ceases that those screaming 'this is racist and/or profiling!' are usually just scared little white people trying to buddy up to the king of the jungle. "

redblack564 wrote on Jun 4, 2009 9:00 AM:

" If you want to act like a thug. Then you get treated like a thug. Of course your going to get stopped if you drive a $500 car and have $5000 wheels and tires and are blaring you music. Most of these people want to get stopped. They get street cred that way. Take out those people and i bet the %'S are alot closer. "

sillyrabbit wrote on Jun 4, 2009 8:28 AM:

" Why don't they compare statistics from cops that are legally color-blind with those that are not and see if the results are similar? "

stop wrote on Jun 4, 2009 7:18 AM:

" Mariab, I agree young + male + black = fear. The question is, is the fear justified? Do people fear snakes because they look dangerous or because they are dangerous? "

Factsnodrama wrote on Jun 4, 2009 6:34 AM:

" Miariab, thats why when they have a serial killer on the loose, the FBI profiles them as white, just like the Muhammed serial killer in VA 2 yrs ago, he was an exception, being black, however alot of white suspects were profiled before he and his accomplice were apprehended. It's not 100%, but profiling works.

Based on crime stats and young black males, why wouldn't a person be concerned with the presence of one in a vulnerable situation? Could he be a good semaretin? Yep. Some high odd's say he could be a criminal, and ready for an oppertunity. I should let my guard down, or a cop should ignore this all in the name of PC hooey? "

mariab wrote on Jun 4, 2009 6:21 AM:

" I can't resist. Boscoe. You said: mariab said: " It seems the posters thus far re: this article assume black drivers are more likely to be criminasl.." DUH! Have you looked at the population of prisoners? Most of the criminals ARE black. There seems to be a behavior problem among blacks. "

If I follow your reasoning, consider: DUH! Have you looked at the population of child molesters? Most of them ARE white. There seems to be a behavior problem among whites.

Or: DUH! Have you looked at the population of serial killers? Most of them ARE white. There seems to be a behavior problem among whites.

So, how 'bout putting to rest the idea of RACE as a crime indicator. "

mariab wrote on Jun 4, 2009 6:13 AM:

" Finally, I think people are laughably in denial if they blow off the idea that young + male + black does not = fear and suspicion to an awful lot of people.

Even for LE, who should know better, that's a combination often too tempting to pass up for a second look (or stop), especially if certain clothing or the vehicle being driven also trigger stereotypes. "

mariab wrote on Jun 4, 2009 6:08 AM:

" About prisoners? I think there's a complex explanation for this. For one, I think again, people from low socio-economic levels are more highly represented in the prison population, regardless of race. Two, the lower socio-economic level you are, the less likely you are to be able to afford an attorney to keep you out of prison. Three, certain crimes are more likely to get prison time versus other crimes (such as drug crime versus 'white collar' crime). And even similar crimes get different treatment. Classic example: Prison time for crack higher than prison time for other forms of cocaine. Unsurprisingly, crack is tied to lower socio-economic levels than other forms. "

mariab wrote on Jun 4, 2009 5:55 AM:

" Sorry, all, but it is your own logic that is lacking.

First, when it comes to 'bad neighborhoods,' you've got to look past the most superficial commonality you think you see - that of complexion. With a few exceptions, a 'bad neighborhood' (read: high crime) is a function of socio-economic level, not race.

Look at it from another angle - meth production and sale. Most people involved in this appear to be white, right? But that's just the superficial layer. This, too, is more a function of socio-economic level. "

limerick54 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 10:22 PM:

" The racial profiling card is an instance, then, of unequal treatment under the law. The intent was not to track all ethnicities, but to track a specific ethnicity. Doesn't that sound like unequal treatment? I would think so. "

boscoe wrote on Jun 3, 2009 10:19 PM:

" mariab said: " It seems the posters thus far re: this article assume black drivers are more likely to be criminasl..."

DUH! Have you looked at the population of prisoners? Most of the criminals ARE black.

There seems to be a behavior problem among blacks. "

Factsnodrama wrote on Jun 3, 2009 4:48 PM:

" Yep, and young people are pulled over more, and people driving hoopties, or beaters are too, profiling, it's a good thing, not the only thing, but still good. It's 2009, we have a black president, so when are excuses going to be replaced by accountability in the black community? Clue, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. "

inthecity wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:43 PM:

" I have an idea, why dont we jsut quit stopping all blacks, hispanics, and anyone else considered a minority?? Then when the crine rates go thru the roof, MAYBE the liberial dumbazzs will get it that the Police arent targeting anyone. BUT that might not work as lol then we would have cleaned up all the white trash... "

ODF wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:23 PM:

" Be safe out there blueknight! "

ODF wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:23 PM:

" blueknight - You and I have had our differences in the past. However, I agree with your post 100%.

Stopping someone based on their race alone is 100% wrong. However, just because statistics on stops show that certain race(s) are stopped more often does NOT mean the stops were based on anything other than sufficient cause.

Stats based solely on race only indicate which races were caught breaking the law more often. There is ZERO PROOF that the reason for the stop was based on race.

More liberal, feel-good, BS to help inflame/incite race relations. Why is always the liberals that feel it is important to point out one's race over anything else? "

blueknight wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:12 PM:

" This is another example of a report that is a complete waste of law enforcement resources and time. It makes certain special interest groups feel good because they can take the statistics and twist them to say whatever they want. "

naturally wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:10 PM:

" This report is intended to 'encourage' LE to lay off the brothers. It is also intended to incite those brothers who already thought they were oppressed, now they have it in 'writing' regardless of how flawed the study is. "

naturally wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:07 PM:

" mariab says - "For example, assuming 'black neighborhoods" throughout Missouri have higher calls for help. (Of course, the data are about traffic stops, but never mind that ...)"

maribraine - That is not an assumption, that is a fact. It would stand to reason that if there are a higher concentration of LE in a neighborhood then there would be more traffic violations being noticed and citations written.
Did you abandon your analytical left brain in favor of your left wing? "

mariab wrote on Jun 3, 2009 12:36 PM:

" It seems the posters thus far re: this article assume black drivers are more likely to be criminasl. For example, assuming 'black neighborhoods" throughout Missouri have higher calls for help. (Of course, the data are about traffic stops, but never mind that ...)

Huh, if the posters' views mirror those of LE, guess that explains a few things. "

sasha wrote on Jun 3, 2009 12:15 PM:

" Maybe the ones getting stopped are the ones breaking the law! Anyone ever think of that???? Start abiding by the law and you won't have to worry about getting pulled over.

Way to go-----make those breaking the law pay for their actions and they throw out the race card. Nice..... "

naturally wrote on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM:

" The higher concentration of L.E. results in higher number of traffic violations witnessed.
I guess this just doesn't fit the agenda of groups trying to make a living by protecting the supposed oppressed. "

naturally wrote on Jun 3, 2009 11:19 AM:

" "But this report is not intended as a detailed explanation for what is occurring in any particular law enforcement agency," Koster added, "but as a catalyst for honest and informed discussion at the local levels."
WELL there you have it folks - the report essentially serves no purpose except to intimidate and incite.
The factors that go into the higher frequency should be the story!
The black neighborhoods have a higher rate of calls for help.
The police are concentrated in those areas to help reduce higher crime rates than other areas. "

stop wrote on Jun 3, 2009 7:05 AM:

" Sounds like we need a program to help black people drive better.

Now that I think about it I don't recall seeing a black person. I would imagine it would be as shocking as seeing a white person. "

Simon wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:47 AM:

" It's called a racial profileing card. And it's mandated by the federal goverment! The card is filled out on EVERY traffic stop, in every jurisdiction, across the United States. It's been around for some 15 to 20 years. It's tracked because a few bad cops in Baltimore where stopping people based on race alone. "

limerick54 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 10:42 PM:

" WHY IS THE ETHNICITY OF VIOLATORS TRACKED? Idiotic! The very fact that the color of someone's skin is noted on a TRAFFIC VIOLATION is "racist'. That line should be DELETED and those that track it should be FIRED, it is a WASTE OF FUNDS that could go to something that is actually productive. "

boscoe wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:18 PM:

" Hopefully the NAACP can try to do something to address the disporportionately bad behavior demonstrated by the black drivers that cause them to be stopped more frequently. "

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