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JC firefighters oppose county tax for ambulance

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By Kris Hilgedick khil@newstribune.com

Published: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:12 AM CDT

Jefferson City firefighters have announced they won't support the Cole County Commission's half-cent sales tax request for ambulance service and are planning to campaign against it.

The issue is on the Nov. 4 ballot.

“Our big concern is the county is asking for a funding source, but has no operational plan,” said Scott Spencer, fire department captain and a committee chairman for the International Association of Firefighters Local 671. “We don't know what our role will be.”

Under the county's plan, Capital Region Medical Center would continue to provide the service, initially.

“We have concerns you'll have tax dollars going to subsidize a for-profit service. I don't think that's a good formula at all,” added Spencer.

Regional West Fire Chief Jack Brade, however, supports the county's plan because he believes it will ensure continued ambulance service to the entire community. Brade feels the main attraction of the county's plan is that it rolls back property taxes for county property owners.

The city already is forging ahead with plans to provide countywide ambulance coverage, and released details of the plan Monday night. The city's proposed ambulance service would be managed by the city fire personnel.


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Thanks.

DJ wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:59 AM:

" Yes PLEASE everyone send Jack an e-mail so he can blow some more smoke and tell lies. Answer the questions on this blog Jack! Vote NO! "

Jack wrote on Oct 28, 2008 6:21 PM:

" If you have questions or would like information about ambulance service you may contact us at "countywidequestion@hotmail.com".
Representing all the emergency services in Jefferson City and Cole County, on the main committee as well as the subcommittee that researched ambulance options, we have all facts and figures accumulated during that time. "

schultz wrote on Oct 27, 2008 11:57 AM:

" Nospin, I can answer your question. There WILL be coverage COuNTYWIDE with the city's plan. The city council passed a resolution that gaurantees that. The city plan includes six 24hr ambulances and crems right now is only running four 24hr units, with two 9-5 units. On the weekends you lose the 9-5 truck out on the east end of town as well. I haven't seen ANYTHING that will gaurantee the county will increase the amount of service provided, not saying they won't though, there is just nothing that promises it "

nospin wrote on Oct 26, 2008 9:32 PM:

" Again-no one will answer the question. Why will there be no coverage in the County if the city plan passes? I keep hearing that comment made by bystanders but no one can explain that opinion. Also-what I read and hear now there is only one City plan. One that covers the "County"-inside and outside the City limits. The "two" ambulances will cover the county with other four inside the city. Similiar to the service that CREMS provides now with two more ambulances. Have I misunderstood? "

Longhorn wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:29 PM:

" Tiger, I used the Dallas and San Antonio examples to illustrate the weakness of a fire service based EMS where the EMS side of the house is a promotional step for the fire department. The staffing figures are per unit in service. No matter what the population, X units in service means 8X medics as full time employees, plus the need for supervisors, administrative and communication staffs. Since Cole County/Jefferson City have far fewer events that require and EMS standby compared to Austin, it will be possible to reduce the number of backup trucks. "

Parrothead911 wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:12 PM:

" The additional benefit of a city run service is in the event of a huge fire, there could be extra personnel on the scene to fight it. Most FDs now either require ot at least encourage cross trainingm by which an emplyee is a trained firefighter AND a medic (ar at least EMT). "

Parrothead911 wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:10 PM:

" Perhaps I am confused, but I have yet to see exactly what the county operational plan is. If that could be specifically spelled out that might make a huge difffence in our perceptions.

A countywide district I think would be best for everyone. There will be politics involved (there ALWAYS is), but it would be confined within its own entity, not on the city or county levels.

I would suggest for the city, 3 fulltime ambulances and 1-2 daytime rigs to cover JC's large daytime population. 2 rigs in the county appears adequate for now.

A private company should be contracted through the hospitals for non-emergency transfers to other hospitals, dialysis, etc. "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 25, 2008 11:44 AM:

" Longhorn,

The City of Austin/Travis County EMS has a staff of 465,
a budget of $40,540,000 and serves
a population of 743,074 (2007 figures).
The population of San Antonio is 1,256,509 (2005).
The population of Dallas is 1,210,390.

How do conditions in these large, metropolitan cities remotely reflect upon
our small, Midwestern community?
Tiger!!! "

Longhorn wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:28 PM:

" I want the best possible paramedic treating me, my friends and family. Just as I want the best possible fire fighters coming to help when I need FD. "

Longhorn wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:27 PM:

" I wanted to run EMS calls so I applied to the EMS department. Others, who wanted to fight fires applied to AFD. I think this makes for a better EMS service. San Antonio Fire department runs the EMS service there, and the fire fighters paramedics recently left a patient for dead, who woke up a few hours later. Dallas Fire runs the EMS and fire fighter paramedics there gave a dose of a powerful cardiac drug to a diabetic patient, instead of the glucose he needed, killing him. EMS becomes a promotional step in a fire department based EMS, instead of the career paramedics of a separate department. "

Longhorn wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:27 PM:

" Here are a few facts and numbers to think about. Austin EMS worked 24 hours on 48 hours off, three shifts of two employees per shift. Austin EMS budgeted 8 employees per unit. The extra two covered time off, sickness, and shortages when we lost someone until a new person could be hired and trained. For every two units in service a reserve truck was available to use for breakdowns, vehicle PM, and special events. We collected 25% of our billings running only 911 calls. The non-emergency calls were handled by a private service. Austin EMS, now Austin-Travis County EMS, is a third service, not part of the police or fire departments. "

Longhorn wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:26 PM:

" ”. When I started my career in EMS, the average person lasted 5 years before burnout; I made it three times that long., with one of the best EMS systems in the country. I did not claim to be a manager, but I knew what it took to run the department because of open and honest communication from the directors I worked under. The numbers I used, 5 million in tax revenue, 1/3 of that from people outside the county, 3 million used to roll back property taxes come from Cole County and Jefferson City staff. Since you said I lied about some inflated numbers, but did not say what numbers you were talking about, I can not speak to your allegation. "

Longhorn wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:25 PM:

" In the Know, I have just read your response to the printed letter to the editor I submitted with my real name signed for the entire world to see. First please check with an elementary school teacher for the proper use of was or were. You are correct, I do not currently hold a paramedic certification and I did not claim, to be one. All of my experience cited in the letter was in the past tense; however, I am not practicing my skills, I am writing about a political issue. I can write a letter to the editor without a patch on my sleeve. Second, I do not think 15 years in EMS is a “short term”. "

boscoe wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:35 PM:

" If the City's ambulance plans work well for the the county residents, then maybe we should investigate the having the JC Fire Dept.take over the county fire protection, and have JCPD take over the Sheriff's Dept. too.

I've never understood why we have such duplication of public services here, especially when it is mostly the city residents who pay for both. "

sprintcarcrazy wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:31 AM:

" As one of the 1st to comment on this, I have this to add.
There needs to be a city/county wide ambulance district supported by sales tax.
The county sales tax is the right way to fund it, but with no plan in place to make it happen, it would be crazy to vote yes on the sales tax issue, so without a plan and the county doesn't have anything but give us money and we will talk later.
I can't vote yes for the sales tax with no plan !
The city does have a plan and a talented fire service to make it work, even though It's not the right way to do it, it's the best plan as there isn't another. "

intheknow wrote on Oct 23, 2008 10:08 PM:

" Countyfactor,,,,,,Sorry,,,,,,I'm so mad after readying some of these post.

Again,,,,Sorry and I hope you understand.... "

Schultz wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:55 PM:

" OK, most of you on here will probably know who I am. What do you want to know? I will answer you 100% if I know. I'm trying to be above board here, so lets keep it clean, OK? I am a JC firefighter/medic and a part-time CREMS paramedic. I support the city's plan. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:39 PM:

" Boscoe, I couldn't agree more with you. This is BIG MONEY and voting yes on this is like lighting a bottle rocket without a stick on it! Who knows WHERE it will end up! Probably right back in your faces! The county has shown time after time that they cannot manage this money. Also I like the idea of the City council (ten members) versus the commision (three members) looking over this project! The City council may seem slow on topics at times, but at least they are being maticulous! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:36 PM:

" Hey there intheknow, I think countyfactor was being sarcastic, read the other posts, he or she I think is on our side! ha ha ha... Down boy! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:34 PM:

" Well, I see the forum has gotten almost out of hand. The bare facts are this guys, the City has a plan in place to fund, and deliver service COUNTY wide! Regardless of the county funding. The arguement is really a mute point now. At least we can vote NO and know that the county won't be supplementing their 'overbudgeted' jail. At least the City can keep track of their money! "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:10 PM:

" Boscoe,

In regard to "the way they are ramming it down our throats and making us decide without adequet analysis and discussion."

As I stated earlier, this discussion has been going on for nearly 5 years now-
I believe that should qualify as plenty of time for "adequate analysis and discussion." "

intheknow wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:07 PM:

" Countyfactor, I'll call your bluff and lie. I know that's nowhere even the truth. Again I'll make the same offer to you as I have with with anyone else, I bet you won't stop by one of the five fire stations in the city a say " SELFISH FIREMAN ONLY THINKING OF FAMILY". Grow a set !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One day you'll need one of those firefighters and then you'll think twice before you call them selfish..... "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:05 PM:

" Easton,
The City's original plan included 29 employees and 5 ambulances for service inside the City (3 ALS, 1 BLS), plus, called for 2 ALS ambulances to remain at their current locations in the county (6 total).
The City said it would provide additional personnel to cover the non-municipal areas. This would add at least 12 more employees, for a total of 41 minimum.
The firefighters convinced the City to add more personnel and to make all 6 ambulances ALS. "

intheknow wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:57 PM:

" Sorry again about the typo.......Austin is a City and County joint operation with the City is the managing partner...... "

countyfactor wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:26 PM:

" Boscoe, I think we the disgruntled county voters converted you, welcome to the good side, I'm sure you will find it not so dark, welcome to the light. I just saw a three fireman today and asked them that same question hey what's in it for you? One of them said "you know my mom and dad live right outside of the city limits they both have health problems and it's nice to know that they will be taken care of." so I guess it's there SELFISHNESS because they want what is best for his family. I am glad it's finally out there I just hope this gets out to the voting public these SELFISH FIREMAN ONLY THINKING OF FAMILY. "

intheknow wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:12 PM:

" Sorry again about the typo.......Austin is a City and County joint operation with the City is the managing partner...... "

intheknow wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:07 PM:

" And funny thing is, Austin is a City and County, with the "City of Austin is the managing partner of this funding consortium". That can be found at ci.austin.tx.us/ems/default.htm .

The only thing the City's plan is doing is putting it under the Fire Department to manage.

Make sure you get your facts first. " "

intheknow wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:06 PM:

" This is in response to the Letter to the editor. Wanted to make sure everyone got to see this joke

" Robert Fritsche, Let's first talk about the truth, #1 You was a Paramedic, your not one now. #2 In your short tern in Tx I'm sure you didn't work your way up to a management spot that quick. #3 Make sure that you get your information from someone that's not so onesided.(certain Chief) #4 the lie's about the $$$$ is inflated that the editors on the News Tribune and reports have all seen the City plan with the FACTS JACK!!!!!!!!!

VOTE NO ON THE COUNTY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " "

boscoe wrote on Oct 23, 2008 5:55 PM:

" No doubt the county is trying to find revenue source to cover huge cost overruns on the jail project and to remodel and furnish the old jail space to make more offices for commissioners, etc.

This is BIG MONEY, folks. We need to know exactly what we are voting on, and where all the money is flowing, and we need to ensure we have the ambulance equipment, facilities, and manpower to give us the services we need, no more and no less. "

boscoe wrote on Oct 23, 2008 5:53 PM:

" This whole thing is very fishy, as in SMELLY. Too much money. Too many details. Too short of time to sort it out and analyze it all.

Did the city and county conspire to ram all this down our throats to vote in two hasty tax increases? Is CRMC also getting in on the deal? Why are the unions so gung ho on this?

Something smells really wrong with the whole ambulance deal and the way they are ramming it down our throats and making us decide without adequet analysis and discussion.

I don't trust either city or county. "

Easton wrote on Oct 23, 2008 1:51 PM:

" Good point, BA!!

I'd also like to know this: The city's first plan was 3 ALS units and 25 employees. Their second plan is now 6 units and 44 employees...to be done without an increase in cost to the taxpayers? Wonder where that money is coming from? "

intheknow wrote on Oct 23, 2008 1:46 PM:

" BA,,,

To make sure that you understand it, the City's plan will provide more service than what's offered right now. Management at Capital Region even supported this plan in the committee meeting with City and County Officals. The City's plan provides more ambulance's in service and with What Mr. Ellinger is saying, what we have is what your going to cont. to have. "

BA_1100_N wrote on Oct 23, 2008 1:40 PM:

" To Unknownmedic
The folks on here against this county tax keep saying that the city covers all that is needed to cover the SHORT FALL. You say "How Capital Region has managed this ambulance service in the last two years is simply pathetic." and reduction in hrs and poor staffing plan etc.. The city plans on covering the shortfall that is currently inplace some of them say that's all that is needed. So you would rather them just cover what is in place now in your word "Pathetic" Or get proper funding to increase, improve, maintain, and better the service. "

intheknow wrote on Oct 23, 2008 12:25 PM:

" ResQguy, Thanks for the Fact's. You couldn't be more right.

The county can't manage what they have, just think what it would be with another 3 millions dollars or more. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 23, 2008 11:03 AM:

" boscoe, come on... concubines on their cell phones?? What do half of your comments have to do with ambualnce service? The county, just today, showed their true colors with their budget balancing debaucle. I don't think thats a good example of sound government. They have no idea of how much money they do or do nor have!... How can they deny the City 400K to help with this service?? "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 23, 2008 10:49 AM:

" In April 2004, Capital Region said it could lose $600,000 by 2006, and several ideas were discussed, including a countywide ambulance district, fire-based ambulances, or bringing in a privatized ambulance.

An April 2005 news article stated "CRMC has engaged in talks with the city, county, and St. Marys Health Center administrators for the past 18 months and has hosted community focus groups for cititizen input."

How does this fit with the assertion that County officials need MORE TIME and MORE INPUT from citizens???

The County dropped the ball FOUR YEARS AGO!!!

Additionally, an article in today's paper says that an audit of the County shows "LATE REPORTS" and "UNBALANCED ACCOUNTS." Clearly, the County is fiscally irresponsible! "

intheknow wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:44 AM:

" FACT,,,,,,

County is over budget on the new jail and they need this additonal funding to cover the cost.

Someone at the County didn't want this out until after the election.

TO LATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VOTE NO ON THE COUNTY ISSUE!!!!!!!! "

ironman wrote on Oct 23, 2008 7:13 AM:

" I am pretty sure if the city tried to abuse there power with the ambulance the firefighters would fight against them.

Be informed VOTE NO. "

ironman wrote on Oct 23, 2008 7:11 AM:

" I live in the county and the county waste money. The city has a plan that is in black and white. Vote No. "

ironman wrote on Oct 23, 2008 7:09 AM:

" Boscoe, First I am a very fair person. If you had not complained on so many blogs I would not come across as being against you. The point was not for you to move but to do something productive to try to change things. Complaining only makes it worse. "

unknownmedic wrote on Oct 23, 2008 3:22 AM:

" How Capital Region has managed this ambulance service in the last two years is simply pathetic. Withing two months of initiating the new "staffing plan" reduction of hours paid and removing ambulances from service, 9 of the most experianced Paramedics have left. Routinely they are out of ambulances and have to beg off duty staff to come in. They had to borrow an ambulance from Boone Hospital for over a month, because theirs were all broke down. Do you want your tax dollars going to an agency who cannot perform anybetter than this? Get the word out!!! No on Nov 4, demand an ambulance district for the good of all!!!! "

unknownmedic wrote on Oct 23, 2008 3:15 AM:

" Continued: If you give Captial Region any tax dollars I assure you that you will see no better service, equipment or better EMS coverage. This whole issue is being shoved down the voters throats with no good choice. I hope and pray the voters respond with a resounding NO THANKS and are given the opportunity to support and vote for a County Wide ambulance district, a seperate politcal entity. Then you will have the best EMS in the region. Otherwise I hope and pray the City plan gets adopted. They will run a good ambulance and provide great service. (No I do not work for the City) "

unknownmedic wrote on Oct 23, 2008 3:12 AM:

" As an EMPLOYEE of CREMS here is what I think.

Best opiton : County Wide District with an elected board of directors.

Second best: City plan

Worst plan by far: County.

If you give Capital Region one red cent of tax payers money, the ambulance will see no improvement. Capital Region "created" this problem by not aggressively billing ambulance calls, not taking into account the cost of all the trips made to Capital Region Imaging (done for free for Captial Region patients each and every day). Since "announcing" this crissis, they have cut pay (crews used to get paid for the entire 24 hours on shift, now they only get paid for 20), they cut ambulances from being staffed. "

Boscoe wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:23 PM:

" Ironman, I never dissed the firemen. I am proud of these guys. Same as the rank and file police officers. I don't know about overworked and underpaid, but they seem to get paid pretty well for not having college degrees and getting to ride around all day talking to their concubines on their cell phones. The parks are a ill-maintained mess- all of them. Yes, even after getting obscene amounts of our tax dollars. Roads are poorly maintained and crumbling like crazy. See how they are after the winter with no sealing and overlay. CRIME is LOW!!! Ha-ha! Oh, and take down the defense sheilds. I'm not attacking you. "

Boscoe wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:18 PM:

" Sigh... Sadly, we get what we deserve.

Perhaps moving away and forgetting about this little Mayberry would be the easiest thing to do.

However, I will not take the easy way out. I am staying and working to improve our community. You all may be 100% happy with everything the way it is, but I have seen and experienced better in other parts of the world, and I want better for my hometown and that of the previous four generations of my family. "

Boscoe wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:15 PM:

" Oh- there it is! From the bottom of the dogpile I heard someone say that if I don't like it here that I should move. What a way to treat people with a diverse opinion of the good-ol-boy status quo! (and these are the same people who are going to throw a big Diversity Celebration next week because they don't want to hear what the Nazis have to say because of their different opinion. Now I don't agree with the Nazis either, but ignoring and pretending that other opinions do not exist or that all people with other opinions are evil is nuts and plain unpatriotic.

The irony is surely lost one everyone here, but am amused. "

countyfactor wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:16 PM:

" We were begging for code enforcement in the county. That juice bar was right by a day care where kids walk by and play, thank God it's gone. I just dont trust the county with my hard earned tax dollars and if the city is willing to come out for free, I say bring on it on. "

countyfactor wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:04 PM:

" to boscoe: No code enforcement? come on the county is the one that had all the trouble with the /juicebar. That would have never cropped up inside the city limits oh by the way after that went into business most of the people on arden were begging to come into the city. I hope your not one of those EMS people that I had to call upon last year, you dont even no anything about the city or the county. "

ironman wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:34 PM:

" The City complex is on hyde park. "

ironman wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:33 PM:

" compared to "

ironman wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:32 PM:

" " Boscoe, Our fire dept. if top notch. They care believe it or not about the citizens. They treat everybody the same. They will do the job or jobs they are assigned to the best of their ability. They touch peoples lives everyday in a possitive way. The parks are nice. Come on if you want to gripe do it about how much the parks dept. spends. The police are overworked and underpaid just like the firemen. The roads are in pretty good condition and compare to Columbia our crime is pretty darn low. How can some of you sleep at night after saying things that are not true. "

ironman wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:23 PM:

" " Boscoe, you complain about everything. On every blog you complain. If you do not like it here move. This city is not that bad. Grow up! "

intheknow wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:51 PM:

" Boscoe, Stop by one of the five fire stations and tell one of the firefighters that you think they'll provide a poor service.

Sounds like to me it's someone that is either a past employee or someone that wanted to be employed at some time.

PS,,,,City doesn't have anything on Metro Drive either........

VOTE NO ON THE COUNTY QUESTION!!!!!!!! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:14 PM:

" Something people are failing to realize too is that the City plan will create jobs!!! There are NOT 44 full-time employees with capital region ems. Nowhere CLOSE. Vote NO on the Countywide question. "

quitcomplaining wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:09 PM:

" Boscoe, I don't know how the city's plan is underfunded. It covers the shortfall. That is all that is needed. We have to remeber that the service will be creating an income. Just not enough to break even. I agree VOTE NO. "

Boscoe wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:51 PM:

" The city's plan is grossly under-funded. They will keep coming back for more tax money over and over like they do with everything else.

We already pay plenty of tax money to the city now, but look at what we get for our services. High crime/poor police/no code enforcement/bad roads with no regular road maintenance anymore/businesses going bankrupt all the time/empty buildings all over town/lousy parks in poor condition/etc.

The only thing getting bigger and better all the time is city hall and the various maintenance sheds all around town. Look at the huge complex that sprung up in just a few years down on Metro Drive.

City will waste more money and provide poor ambulance service. "

quitcomplaining wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:34 PM:

" Boscoe, You should be thinking how much better of an ambulance service we will have. 6 24 hour a day ALS trucks. Spread out through the city and county. I will also point out that the city is collecting only the amount needed to fund the service. And with the fire department running it we will have over 110 EMT's and Paramedics. The county has not provided a plan. Help maintain a high level of service COUNTY WIDE and vote NO on the County Question. Which I might add is a whole lot of deception. "

Boscoe wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:11 AM:

" The ambulances are important, and this is a whole lot of money to manage.

I don't trust the Rassmussen / Landwhere regime, and the Council has proven time and time again their impotence and incompetence. The city has not been nearly as good of a steward of my tax dollars as even the kooky county comissioners.

Don't entrust your life and any more tax dollars to either the city or the county. VOTE NO. "

beehumble wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:11 PM:

" Before it's pointed out....Sorry for the typos. "

beehumble wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:08 PM:

" quit...I would like to know the answers to your questions too. However, no one for the county can not seem to answer them or they don't to want us to know. The city has provided answers to all of the questions asked, why can't the county to the same? "

quitcomplaining wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:33 PM:

" If the tax passes?

Where will the ambulances be stationed?

Are there county buildings in the city to house them?

Who will run the service?

Does the county already have 60+ EMT's and Paramedics?

And the BIG one is WHERE IS ALL OF THE EXTRA MONEY GOING? "

quitcomplaining wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:30 PM:

" Why does this have to be a Cith vs. County issue. The city has a plan in place to provide better service. Two ambulance's in the county and 4 in city. 24hrs a day 7 days a week. I might add that the city ambulances will also respond into county areas. People living in the Taos are should be happy. The city will be housing an ambulance at city station 4, only a few minutes away. Vote No "

quitcomplaining wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:26 PM:

" I keep hearing (from county fire people) that they do not want city fire to have control. They think that the county needs to have control of the ambulance operations. My question is, who has control now? You currently cant vote some out if you do not like something. The county commisoner told two of the Jefferson City Firefighters that he sees the Jefferso City Fire Department running the service. But he wants control of the money. 1.7 million extra anually. "

quitcomplaining wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:22 PM:

" I think todays paper sums it up. Why does the county want 5,000,000.00 to have what the city is offering at a cost of 400,000. It does not make sense to me. Better coverage at a lower price. Vote NO on the county question. "

intheknow wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:21 PM:

" AJ, Great question, I'd hope that the City cont. to move forward with it's plan. The City has a plan and the County has nothing expect an over funding pork barrel to throw money at other over needed projects like the Law Enforcement Tax that give $0.00 to the City's Law Enforcement, and like the Road and Bridge Tax that give's very little to the City.

VOTE NO ON THE COUNTY QUESTION!!!!!!! "

AJ415 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:08 AM:

" And if the county tax passes, would the city roll back their property tax? Just trying to get informed..... "

AJ415 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:06 AM:

" Can anyone tell me, what is the amount of money a person would have to spend per day, to come up with the average of $71.00 a year? If the county tax passes. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:41 PM:

" gofish
Spencer looked pretty good doing local government tonight. I know Scott also and he is a very good guy. If he doesn't believe in something he would tell you. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:37 PM:

" truthbetold
Thank you. I don't know if everybody new that and was not sure how to explain the 1/8 cent tax. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:28 PM:

" concernedcoresident.. The resolution stated that regardless of what the outcome of the county sales tax, the City will provide coverage. Period. End of debate. Its that simple. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:27 PM:

" Second... Ironman, yes I will explain. the City, when they first voted on the property tax, included a line in the language of the vote that stated they would convert the funding mechanism to a sales tax (1/8 cent) as soon as they could after the service was established. I look for that to be on a ballot in '09. I think we can pay the little 8 cent property tax for one year. Its a small price to pay to ensure the county and city community has the service it needs! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:24 PM:

" First off, Concernedcoresident. The email that went out was wrong. Plain and simple. The City passed a resolution tonight that will basically provide ambulance service to the county at the SAME level of service it is getting now. You stated that the City will be the major concern? Well, ask the hospital where their ambulances from the outlying stations go when the City is out of ambulances. They come into town!!! Now, is that what you want?? That's what you will get with the City plan. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:58 PM:

" truthbetold
You stated
"I anticipate City government going for an 1/8 cent sales tax asap. " could you please explain this. It could help the situation. I know the answer but its your topic. I just thought you could explain better than I. Thanks! My movie was good.Ha. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:47 PM:

" Look all documents are public. Go and ask for them. Read become informed. Make your own decision. We don't all have to agree, but we all live in this community together in one way or another. The city firemen have nothing to gain or loose. They are trying to protect the citizens of cole county. This is a plan and simple fact. The city plan is a good sound plan. The intent is to serve not to take away. Go to the website nocountytax.com. Go to city hall or the county. Get the plans. Ask questions. I will vote no. You vote what you will, but please be informed. God Bless. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:40 PM:

" The countys plan. Wait what plan? "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:40 PM:

" Taken from vote no website.
Jefferson Citys Plan.
"JCFD Station 1 (1 ambulance)
JCFD Station 2 (1 ambulance)
JCFD Station 4 (1 ambulance)
JCFD Station 5 (1 ambulance)
Cole County Fire Station in Brazito (1 ambulance)
Regional West Fire Station in Apache Flats (1 ambulance)
JCFD Hyde Park Fac. (2 ambulances)
Reserves used to put in service for larger scale incidents or to be used for mechanical breakdowns
6 of the 8 units are 24 hr. " "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:33 PM:

" "concernedcoresident"
The Ambulance's will be left in the county stations. It has been stated many times and is in black and white.
Look at the City's budget, six 24 hr ambulances for City and County coverage. I know Jack too and he is not always truthful. I have known him for over ten years. I'm not going to sit her and bash him, but he is pulling the wool over your eyes. The truth is what I,m saying and I am a person that is known for my word. "

concernedcoresident wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:17 PM:

" I know Brade also and the information he is forwarding on is correct. The document states that the city will provide ambulance service but it may be a day late and a dollar short. The county will not be the priority by any means no matter what a piece of paper says. The city will. We need to be concerned not about politics and money but about the citizens that are living in the county. The staions that hold the ambulances now in the county are doing a wonderful job and I think that it needs to stay that way. "

intheknow wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:15 PM:

" Well, If you want to confirm that someone has lied about the fact's behind the Ambulance issue. Go to nocountytax.com and get the real facts. A certain fire dist chief sent out an email that contained nothing but the truth.

VOTE NOT ON THE COUNTY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:10 PM:

" If Mr. Brade knew this information, I'm sure he would not have sent that email to so many people trying to drum up support. If he knew this information and still sent that email, then shame on him. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:08 PM:

" The City has a resolution that states... and i will paraphrase here so it makes perfect sense. The City will provide ambulance service to residents countywide. Plain and simple. The city budget provides for 6 24 hour ALS ambulances and 44 some odd employees. There is the balck and white for you. I don't recall anyone calling him a liar, BUT he is wrong. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:06 PM:

" shepard, here is a quote from an email from Mr. Brade. "If the Countywide 1/2 cent (COUNTYWIDE QUESTION) sales tax fails: No ambulance service outside the Jefferson City limits. Ambulance service reduced inside the jefferson City limits.... "

Folwthesheprd wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:56 PM:

" cont' I have never known him to straight lie. He always means well and shoots straight from the heart and point in my experiences w/him He surely ment that there is no plan in place by the city for the county. People here keep saying that the city's plan is made and in progress and that the city will not leave the county in the cold, well been there before lets see some black and white. So for those of you whom keep slugging away at Mr. Brade I know the man and so do alot of thankful people in this community for what he has done for them and their children. Your anger is distasteful. "

Folwthesheprd wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:42 PM:

" Just reading all this gives me a headache lol. I still want my property taxes lowered, and well a sells tax is better for me I do not buy many material things. If gas is not in this sales tax then well even better. More money is not a bad thing makes sure you get what you need the first time. Better that than say oh sorry we need more. Besides that tax can be lowered in the future when everything is set right. For those whom are on the Mr. Brade bashing wagon, I have known him for many years and he is a good comunity minded person coaches, volunteers time to habbitat for humanity etc.. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:41 PM:

" FF-wife, I'm sorry to be the bearer of that bad news, I wish your husband luck with the possibility of a promotion! and thank him for me for his service to our community! Thanks! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:40 PM:

" FF-wife, I hate to tell you this, but the only chance for promotion will be the three positions of "shift supervisor" to cover the ambulance 'division' for each of the fire department shifts. There is no gaurantee that the positions will be filled from the fire department ranks either.

As far as firefighter's getting raises, the City plan (or the budget) includes no raises to firefighters if the City plan for ambulance service comes to life. "

ff_wife wrote on Oct 20, 2008 7:25 PM:

" "My husband is a Firefighter, The city firefighters stand to get promotions and raises that are otherwise not possible with the county plan. They deserve at least this much from us!"

The economy is bad enough we could all use a little help. "

beehumble wrote on Oct 20, 2008 6:10 PM:

" Why should I give that much money to a governmental entity that I don't even think knows what they are going to do with it. The only plan that makes sense to me is the city plan. It has been a long drawn out plan. The county has just started to plan this on a whim, my money is hard earned and I am not just gonna stand by and let someone decide to spend it for me on a whim, if I can help it. "

beehumble wrote on Oct 20, 2008 6:06 PM:

" Ironman, a total of seven I am close to.
BA, I will accept your apology however with all the backlash behind it not so sure I should. As far as being someone in the inner circle your wrong. I am just someone who knows more than you would like me to. I live in the county and I will be voting NO! I do my reading, I gather the facts, and then I make an informed decision. Others should try that as well. Don't go off what your friends tell you, find out for yourself. The other $2million the county wants has no explaination, it's just hovering in the air. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 5:31 PM:

" Ironman... Loved you movie by the way! ha ha... And no offense, but if you live in the county, you would be crazy to vote for this... You will be getting a service basically for free! I'm sure that is why you are voting no! ha ha... I anticipate City government going for an 1/8 cent sales tax asap. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 5:28 PM:

" ironman, thank you for your comments. i understand how political things can make people emotional sometimes. And yes, BA, I AM in some inner circles that know a lot of information and I'm not coming here to bash anyone or anything except the concept of the countywide sales tax. If you are NOT in the know, and DON'T have correct information then go get some and then come back and try to sell me on your topic! Let's not get personal here. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 5:03 PM:

" " VOTE NO ON THE COUNTY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
By the way, I live in the county. I vote. Sorry I yelled. Vote McCain to. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:58 PM:

" BA_1100_N
You should read what you write before you post it. I do not believe you are sorry for getting onto Bee. You seemed to just want to hurt someone to get a point across. Alot of you people need to grow up!!!
Bee how many family members are or where in the service? "

BA_1100_N wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:55 PM:

" The four of you know a lot about the inner working's of the fire and ems department's. So for you to say how great you are takes something away from all this. One of you said "one of your other little supporters" Little supporters? Come on ego's stop talking down to us. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:53 PM:

" beehumble. Thank the 11 year old girl for me. Her hurt saves lives. Also thank your family members who are in the service. Truth,inthe, and resQ. Thank you for your level headed answers to people questions. "

BA_1100_N wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:51 PM:

" Bee

I appologize for getting you so upset, I did not say you hate the military. I was just trying to prove a point if you want to start talking about how unfair peoples salaries are we can do it all day long, We've all got em and we could start from the top of people who are under paid. We've all got the little girl stories too. I just felt that story was a little over the top for this. Was it not? As for the F/F's on here patting themselves on the back saying how noble you are for ur pay cuts, stop we will puke, don't say your not either one of ur ID's is ResQguy I mean come on. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:48 PM:

" I also would like to thank all of you who are trying to keep a level head and being truthful while you do it. "

ironman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:47 PM:

" I think that the yes people in this blog are going to say whatever it takes to get people to vote yes. After many hours of checking information and seeing who makes correct statements this seems to be a fact. Cutting down people you do not know is a cowards way to get what you want. What you want will hurt the county and the city. Please use your head before you respond to this. I would hate for you to look any more foolish. "

BA_1100_N wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:30 PM:

" truth
"The city proponents want you to vote it down because they know if it fails the city will get control and its over as far as for the city." As far as for the city the issue would be squashed would it not. They would have their plan in place and move on with it. So for those who want a district it wont happen then would it. Then the issue would be how the county gets handled, cause it would be over as far as for the city. Does this anserw your question. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:18 PM:

" Smoke20, thanks for your common sense!!! I applaud you! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:17 PM:

" If the county passes this tax, instead of having 6 24 hour ambulances there should be one on every block! It's four times the money, and LESS service if the county continues the ambulance service as they intend to! Why would I spend 80k on a car, when I could buy the SAME exact car for 20K??? Its a no brainer.. VOTE NO on the sales tax! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:13 PM:

" Neighbor, I'm sure that EVERONE you talked to will vote for your issue, especially if you have been feeding them the same sunshine and cupcakes the commission and jack brade have been selling to people. He even sent out an email trying to tell everyone there would be no ambulance service in the county whatsoever if the sales tax didn't pass! ha ha ha.... I mean come on, I don't think the City would leave the county HIGH and dry like that!? "

smoke20 wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:12 PM:

" Some people want a ambulance district and again they have there place but cole county is unique in that we have a staffed 24/7 fire dept. here in our great county. If we were a rural county then I would understand that we might need such a set up. Why go and create bigger government, no need to duplicate services. Remember the city has 70% of the call volume so should they have a voice? Seems to me that the county commission forgets that a majority of the people that they are supposed to serve live in the city. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:07 PM:

" There is virtually almost ONE MILLION dollars that is included in the county tax plan, everything from first responder supplements to a FAT 200K reserve fund balance that is NOT included in the City plan... Maybe because those issues are NOT ambulance issues. THAT is the point of my arguement and has been the whole time. This ego contest about who controls what has GOT to stop. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:04 PM:

" I think its funny that the only people talking about 'control' on here are the advocates of the county tax plan. Seems like to me that the county is gunning for 'control' more than anything! No one can STILL answer my question about where all of the extra money the 1/2 cent sales tax brings in is going to go??? If the county took the 'fluff' out of the budget, then they should LOWER the sales tax! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:02 PM:

" BA, yes, I'm sure that not ALL of the firefighters are 100% behind the tax issue. I really couldn't imagine a group of 70 or more people having the exact same mindset. I do think you should really calm down a little bit though, your posts aren't making since. "The city proponents want you to vote it down because they know if it fails the city will get control and its over as far as for the city." What are you talking about!!?!?!?! You words here.. "

neighbor wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:02 PM:

" Everyone I've talked to is voting for the COUNTYWIDE QUESTION sales tax, people in the city and out in the county. I haven't talked to a lot of people, but we've had our morning coffee discussions. A couple of you fellas seem to get right riled when offered an opposing opinion. Just jokin' "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 20, 2008 2:51 PM:

" Nearly ONE YEAR since the formation of a committee to review options for continued ambulance service, the County now proposes throwing excess millions of needless dollars at the problem while they receive yet "more input," and continue to delay the process for one or two more years.
The City was proactive, the City has a detailed operational plan, and the City will collect only the amount necessary to run the service, not excess funds to pad their general fund. "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 20, 2008 2:39 PM:

" In regards to the County receiving more public input about how to proceed:

Capital Region said at least FOUR YEARS ago that they were losing money on the ambulance service and were looking for options. The idea of an independent, county-wide ambulance district was discussed at that time, then it was dropped. City fire officials took this issue seriously back then and began looking for solutions to the problem.
In May of 2007, Capital Region announced that they wanted to be out of the ambulance business by January of 2009. It was SIX MONTHS LATER before the announcement that a committee had been formed to review options for continued ambulance service. "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 20, 2008 2:24 PM:

" BA, you say that the City wants to spend County tax money, but the City only wants the amount that will cover the deficit of providing service outside the City.

However, if you would like to look at how taxpayer dollars are spent, the MAJORITY of County taxpayers reside INSIDE the City limits, yet the County Commission spends the majority of City taxpayer dollars they receive OUTSIDE the City. Explain how this is fair to County taxpayers who live in the City. "

beehumble wrote on Oct 20, 2008 2:22 PM:

" BA...you would really stoop so low as to make reference to me not thinking about our military!?! I have family in Iraq *erk! I was sticking to the emergency personnel this issue involves. Go ahead a drag the world into it. You're only making a mockery of yourself and the other county supporters. I was making a point toward one of your other little supporters comments about the FFs ability to take a pay cut and you know that. Good laugh for you, but I don't think your morals are in the right place anyway. "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 20, 2008 2:14 PM:

" I certainly did not forget the fine men and women in the armed forces who protect all of us in this great country- they deserve all the pay and benefits they can get!
Full-time military work 24/7/365, and NO amount of pay can compensate for their sacrifice and long deployments overseas.
BTW, many police officers, EMTs, paramedics, teachers, and firefighters also serve our nation in the National Guard and Reserves, in addition to serving their communities at home.

But, BA_1100_N, if you want to "KEEP TO THE TAX ISSUES," then why are you accusing people of being ungrateful and forgetting our armed forces? "

BA_1100_N wrote on Oct 20, 2008 1:04 PM:

" beehumble wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:15 AM:

" ALL of them Police, FFs, and EMTs deserve a much better salary for the sacrifices they make to protect the greatful AND the ungreatful! "

Hey do not be so ungrateful you forgot the armed forces that keep the rest of them in a job.

We could do this all the time or stop the propaganda and keep to the tax issues. "

BA_1100_N wrote on Oct 20, 2008 1:00 PM:

" beehumble wrote on Oct 20, 2008
" Neighbor...There is not a large enough salary out there to replace the 11 years one young lady has not had her dad home for her birthday...... Tell her that what her father does for a living is not enough to warrent a decent salary, not to have to work a second job on top "
Military is not paid well either, neither are alot of us. You tell military daughters the salary crys you spread. Then work your way down the dangerous time consuming jobs list. Lots of people deserve a decent salary and especially Firefighters. Talk about a propaganda post. Least she can see her dad at his work on her Bday, it happens and should. "

BA_1100_N wrote on Oct 20, 2008 12:36 PM:

" Truth and Bee
To help you understand, I believe neighbor said
"I guess just because the union is for the City plan doesn't mean all the firemen are. " I take that as simply he/she is only saying that not all support it. Afterall the arcticle title says "JC firefighters oppose county tax for ambulance". I believe that neighbor is just pointing out that the title is not exactly accurate. If that is not it then neighbor can feel free to correct me. "

nocountytax.com wrote on Oct 20, 2008 12:34 PM:

" I would encourage everyone to visit the website nocountytax.com to see for yourself why the city's countywide proposal is the best way to go. VOTE NO on the County Wide question. "

BA_1100_N wrote on Oct 20, 2008 12:02 PM:

" I understand the District issue and I know the only way it will even be a reality for all those who keep screaming for it. "

BA_1100_N wrote on Oct 20, 2008 11:59 AM:

" The city proponents want you to vote it down because they know if it fails the city will get control and its over as far as for the city. You will not get a district. Yet if it passes the commisioners will be looking for the publics opinion (PUBLICS OPINION) on how to proceed. At least the county will give you the chance at a district. The city plan has never said nor will ever say the word district. They want control. They say they will take care of the county. It will be ran by people the county has no vote/say in. The city want's our county tax money given to them to serve us. There is a saying for that. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:33 AM:

" Boscoe, as I've said before, an ambulance district is not one of the options at this time. A petition would need to be performed and signed by enough county residents to put it on the ballot. If you really want the district, I would recommend voting down this sales tax! No one will gor for a new tax (that would obvisouly) come along with the formatiion of a district. Vote down the November 4th ballot, then go for your district. "

Boscoe wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:18 AM:

" .

A separate county-wide ambulance DISTRICT is needed, without the meddling or funding from city or county taxes. Set up a separate ambulance district, run by an elected board, and funded by a separate county-wide sales tax.

DO NOT let the incompetent city hall or county commission have anything to do with it.

. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:42 AM:

" After hearing some things about this campaign that the 'county' is running, primarily one person really, it almost seems to be that someone out there has a vendetta against the City. I think that this county sales tax was a knee jerk reaction, and will keep other businesses out of the Jefferson City area. We don't have a lot to offer here, BUT the sales tax. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:36 AM:

" four firefighters out of approximately 70? I really don't think that is a good slice of the pie to look at. I am sure that the City firefighter's union voted on this issue, it would be interesting to know what the number were on the vote? Anyone out there have that information? Or know who to ask? Let's not assume anything here, you know the old saying about 'assume'! "

beehumble wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:27 AM:

" Four FFs out of approx. 70 is not enough to say much. There are always a few bad apples in the barrel. "

beehumble wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:15 AM:

" ALL of them Police, FFs, and EMTs deserve a much better salary for the sacrifices they make to protect the greatful AND the ungreatful! "

beehumble wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:11 AM:

" Neighbor...There is not a large enough salary out there to replace the 11 years one young lady has not had her dad home for her birthday. Eleven bdays missed is heartbreaking to a girl especially when she looks at the calendar each year and sees the next two bdays will be missed as well. Tell her that what her father does for a living is not enough to warrent a decent salary, not to have to work a second job on top of being completely away from home 1/3 of every month. Not to mention all the kids that have not had dad at home for many Christmas's in a row. "

neighbor wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:44 AM:

" After researching at what both plans have to offer and the cost to me as a homeowner in JC the County plan seems clear to be the most responsible method for funding an ambulance service. The County plan will cost all of us less. Also, after reading some of the comments that have been posted by a relatively few, I talked to some (4 to be exact) of the Jeff City firemen. Every one of them supported the County plan and 2 of them live in the City. I guess just because the union is for the City plan doesn't mean all the firemen are. "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 19, 2008 10:37 PM:

" The firefighters CANNOT afford to lose their part-time jobs. Many of them are already looking for other part-time work.
Additionally, most of the full-time employees on the ambulance also work 2nd, or even 3rd, jobs.
Wouldn't it be great if police officers, EMTs, teachers, paramedics, and firefighters could all make a decent wage and could afford having days off to spend time with their families? "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 19, 2008 10:29 PM:

" Regardless of the percentage of sales tax generated by consumers from outside Cole County, the County plan will still raise annual taxes by $71.00, for the average household, while the City tax, already in place, is an increase of only $21.00.
Why pay over 3x more in taxes, especially when much of that money has no specific designation? "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 10:26 PM:

" Wait a minute, let me clarify again. The personell that were 'denied' to work in the county fire station in question were full-time City firefighters, and part-time ambulance employees. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 10:13 PM:

" Sorry, let me clarify, I was referring to 'opponent' as someone against the City's plan. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 10:12 PM:

" Here's something else to think about... One of the major 'opponents' for lack of a better term is the same person that denied some of the part-time City firefighters that work for the ambulance service to work on the ambulance that is based in his county fire station. I think that is evidence enough that some people are taking this issue as a personal vendetta and not thinking ultimately about the taxpayers. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 10:04 PM:

" neighbor, what I don't think you are understanding is that the TOTAL county tax money collected is an ABUNDANCE. Regardles where it comes from. Its irresponsible government, plain and simple... And, what are you talking about when you say the county eliminated some minor expenses.. Are you referring to the unrelated programs they are funding with my ambulance tax money? "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 10:01 PM:

" Ha ha ha ha.... I don't think anyone said that the firefighters could afford a paycut like that... Could you neighbor? I think its very noble. I am sure that the City firefighters aren't rich, nor will they be getting rich by any means. ALL City employee's payscales are completely open to the public by the way. "

neighbor wrote on Oct 19, 2008 7:11 PM:

" I do not think $357K will cover the cost either. I guess that is the projected cost to area taxpayers. The big plus of the County proposal is the $1.5M brought in from the outside. That gets added to our (the local taxpayers) $357K or $500K. The County eliminated some minor expenses in other areas.
Wow, guys giving up $15K because it's the right thing to do. Hey, I think that's great those guys can afford a paycut like that. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 6:55 PM:

" ResQguy, I am truly sorry to hear that the firefighters are going to be losing their part-time jobs. That just proves to me that they must feel very strongly about this topic and makes me support the City plan even stronger! Thanks for all the hard work you do! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 6:48 PM:

" Sorry news tribune and neighbor, that article was published August 20th. "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 19, 2008 6:46 PM:

" Martian, while I'm certain the firefighters' union would welcome any newcomers, union membership is NOT compulsory and would be up to the individual employee to decide.

As far as the motivation of the firefighters' union, several of the firefighters are part-time employees of the current ambulance service, and their input toward developing the City plan has been invaluable.
These employees will LOSE their part-time jobs (possibly $10,000 to $15,000/ year) if the City takes over the service, but they are willing to make that sacrifice because they believe the City's plan is overwhelmingly better for our entire community. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 6:41 PM:

" ResQguy, thank you for being informed when you comment on this forum, misinformation can lead voters astray from the truth of the matter. The boiled down truth is this, the county 'plan' or lack thereof actually raises MORE money than the City property tax, SO by simple math we all learned in school, that means that the county tax will cost me MORE money.... end of story. WITH lesser service! I might add. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 6:36 PM:

" I don't know about everybody else, but I don't think I'd mind paying about $20-$30 or so a year (based on city property taxes) for an improved ambulance service. How much simpler can it be? Let's keep property taxes DOWN so this community wil still have DRAW for business! We have already lost enough jobs in Jefferson City! Wake up people! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 6:34 PM:

" Neighbor....Your words "City plan cost JC property owners $.9M for JC service only. If the City provides service to county, they want .4M, for a total cost 1.3M"... If the county plan leaves 2 to 2.55 million to run an ambulance and cram hundreds of thousands of dollars into 'other' health department projects... Doesn't that math look a little funny to you? Why do you support a plan that costs more money to taxpayers? "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 19, 2008 6:31 PM:

" Neighbor...."The rest of the money collected - estimated to be between $2 million and $2.55 million a year - would be used to pay for a countywide ambulance service and for an expansion of other health services now generally offered through the county health department"....Quoted from the news tribune Aug 26th I believe "

ResQguy wrote on Oct 19, 2008 6:30 PM:

" Hey, neighbor!
The County proposal, presented by the County Commission, clearly states that the projected loss for the ambulance service for 2009 is $1,181,138.59. This loss may be offset slightly, by the transport of inpatients from Capital Region to their new Cancer Center, by only $80,000.
Anyone who says the loss can be covered by $357,000 is absolutely lying.

Also, in addition to the current $500,000 in USE TAX the County collects from businesses from their current 1/2 cent sales tax- which could be used to fund the ambulance- the County would collect another $500,000 (in unappropriated funds) from their current tax proposal!
Who's really trying to get rich here?!

Vote NO!!! on the Countywide Question and stop tax abuse!!! "

neighbor wrote on Oct 19, 2008 5:20 PM:

" The amounts collected on both plans? That seems to be the overwhelming topic. COUNTYWIDE QUESTION (that's the Ambulance 1/2 cent sales tax on the ballot) raises $5M. Over $1.5M will come from outside the county. $3M of the $5M rolls back everyones property tax. Total cost to Cole and JC = $.5M (but will generate $2M) and covers everyone. City plan cost JC property owners $.9M for JC service only. If the City provides service to county, they want .4M, for a total cost 1.3M. I'm voting YES on COUNTYWIDE QUESTION. "

intheknow wrote on Oct 19, 2008 8:44 AM:

" Or, sence everone's cross trained they could also have more ambulance in service if a large incident required more ambulance's RIGHT.......... "

Parrothead911 wrote on Oct 19, 2008 3:52 AM:

" Though my preference at this time would be for a countywide EMS District, I realize that is not going to happen anytime soon.

As for the City needing 44 people to cover the ambulances, it would be good for the FD. In many FD's , everyone is crosstrained for ambulance calls (either EMT or paramedic level) and firefighting. Therefore more firfighters would be available if a huge fire (or several fires at once) hit the city. "

intheknow wrote on Oct 19, 2008 12:03 AM:

" VOTE NO ON THE COUNTY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like a few people that are posting are the same one's that sent out an email telling everyone that the City's plan won't cover the County. (BS) Plus the wrong facts on the money collected.......GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT Before you send an email out to everyone in the County........... "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 18, 2008 10:50 PM:

" Let's think about this.... If the county's plan is to basically contract a service with Captial Region for one or two years, what happens with ALL of the extra money that the county will be collecting in sales tax revenue when it becomes time (after one or two years)to 'figure' out what type of service should be in place? Will the county donate their million plus dollars they will have in 'reserve' to the new service?? "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 18, 2008 10:06 PM:

" I really don't think (although it would make some sense ironman) the City is trying to bolster their firefighter numbers with ambulance employees. I feel they are tyring to come up with the best bang for your buck solution! "

ironman wrote on Oct 18, 2008 9:45 PM:

" "martian0722

Did you ever think that maybe the fire dept. is running short of manpower or is it ok for them to run short. Maybe you should do some more research.Huh...
Not that the ambulance would fix that but come on everone is hurting some how. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 18, 2008 9:41 PM:

" Sprintcarcrazy, it sounds like to me that you are looking for a county district. If that's what you are in favor of, then it would be in your best interest, in my opinion, to vote against the countywide sales tax, a sales tax would not be the funding mechanism that would need to be inplace for a district. You are going to have to go after that at a later date. "

sprintcarcrazy wrote on Oct 18, 2008 8:59 PM:

" I think the sales tax for ambulance service is the way to go, but not like the county wants to do it. Being a county resident, I would take the city proposal over the county one, but the process is not right. Again, lets put the city county wide thing up to a vote and force them via a board of qualified people to make the right decisions on this. That way the county fire officials have the same advisory role as the city fire staff. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 18, 2008 8:07 PM:

" KC911foryou.. What happened to you old friend? Are you still waving the county district banner? For all you district supporters out there. I think KC911foryou was right in saying that if you really want to try to collect the signatures and get the district thing on the ballot, they BEST plan for you politically is to vote 'NO' on the sales tax issue. I think it will be a hard sell otherwise for you in the future. "

ironman wrote on Oct 18, 2008 7:46 PM:

" Vote no on the County Ambulance tax. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 18, 2008 7:37 PM:

" Beehumble, you are very welcome. I am glad to see a little light shed on this topic. Sorry I have been away so long to comment on this subject.

Thank you City, and city firefighters, for stepping up to the plate and making the sacrifices I know you have made in order to see this project through. "

beehumble wrote on Oct 18, 2008 7:32 PM:

" Oh and I think it's the other way around Martian. I think I have hit your nerve and you just can't shake the feeling. HA
Truth...your my hero! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! "

beehumble wrote on Oct 18, 2008 7:26 PM:

" Martian, you make no sense. JCFD runs on all city EMS calls, and all of the FFs have at the very least an EMT license. How do you figure they don't know anything about EMS. If a private co. comes in and they don't make a profit (your assuming the city is looking for) they will cut their losses and run, leaving us in the same situation we're in now. County does not know about EMS services and they are not even prepared. They are requesting a tax for the services and with that tax the request will bring them millions more $ than what is required to run the district. Who is trying to make the profit? Sounds like county to me! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 18, 2008 7:19 PM:

" I agree with most of what the City firefighter's union is trying to say, the same thing I have been saying. Too much money, with no real 'plan'. The county commission wants to continue the current system and in a couple of years (possibly) come up with a solution. We will be right back here where we started people! I commend the City for finally doing something right! "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 18, 2008 7:17 PM:

" And finally... I am curious as to why the volunteer fire chiefs out in the county are so concerned with an issue that doesn't seem to really involve them. I saw a copy of an email sent from Regional West's chief that stated (and I will paraphrase here) if the city takes the ambulance service there will be no coverage for the county. All I can say to that is take a look at the City's budget, six 24 hr ambulances for City and County coverage. So apparently he has gotten some misinformation. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 18, 2008 7:13 PM:

" Concerning the city firefighters receiving money for the ambulance service. Nowhere in the budget did I see anything regarding wage increases for current fire department employees. The only increase that might happen for firefighter salaries is if the city decides to advance current firefighters up in the ranks. I wouldn't think that would be too much of a windfall of money. "

truthbetold wrote on Oct 18, 2008 7:11 PM:

" Well, seems like someone needs to set the record straight. As far as the union receiving money from the city. If you are in doubt, check the budget! ha ha... That's what I did. The union actually pays the city to take dues out of their checks! So THAT is an incorrect statement.... "

martian0722 wrote on Oct 18, 2008 3:10 PM:

" Come on beehumble,

It obvious that I struck a nerve with you.

The union's position is that they are worried that someone will profit....that is except themselves. My point was very clear that it is hypocrisy.

By the way....I am familiar with several people who contribute to charitable organizations all the time....they still dont know anything about EMS service. Dont stray from the point.

The city firefighters, and their union stand to benefit from the city taking on an ambulance service. "

intheknow wrote on Oct 18, 2008 11:45 AM:

" VOTE NO ON THE COUNTY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like a few people that are posting are the same one's that sent out an email telling everyone that the City's plan won't cover the County. (BS) Plus the wrong facts on the money collected.......GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT Before you send an email out to everyone in the County........... "

douglas413 wrote on Oct 18, 2008 11:27 AM:

" OK, EMS People out there, Speak up about which would be better for you and the SERVICE you work for NOW.

City [ Plan ] or sit up a planing board for the good of ALL Cole County, For the coverage for the AMBULANCE BOARD>! ! ! ! "

douglas413 wrote on Oct 18, 2008 11:14 AM:

" I agree there needs to be a vote, to force the [ City , County ] to work togather. 911 center too!

THERE is well Quellified poeple out there, with level heads, the will think for the good of all COLE county residents.

Have a board set up with [Fire districts,Cole county/jeff city and EMS ] that are well quilified for the District. "

beehumble wrote on Oct 18, 2008 9:00 AM:

" Martian, 1st of all I am not an employee, so you can drop the "you". Your answer is both. The fundraisers raise money and the union make a contribution as well. No city money is involved. Union dues come out of the FFs pockets. Taxpayer money is only involved when they donate. I don't know where you get that taxpayers are paying for where the FFs charity money comes from, other than donations. Gather ALL your facts before you make accusations. One small paragraph on a website in not enough to make an informed comment. If you needed charity would you even make this argument? Be thankful they make the effort. "

martian0722 wrote on Oct 17, 2008 8:35 PM:

" beehumble,

Those donations, according to your website, are from seperate fundraisers such as your annual BBQ. Your donations to MDA are from your bootdrive. You thank the area firefighters, the chief, and the community for their donations to make that possible. So which is it that makes the charity....Our tax dollars or our donations to the community seperate of the tax dollars? "

beehumble wrote on Oct 17, 2008 8:29 PM:

" The problem I see with a board of advisors would be a like the Dems and the Repubs. nothing gets done when the two parties come together. "

sprintcarcrazy wrote on Oct 17, 2008 8:26 PM:

" Placing board members with citizens who have knowledge in this area and have the interest of the citizens at heart would work.

I am not sure why you think that would be a political football. If it was, it would be much less than what is happening now ! "

beehumble wrote on Oct 17, 2008 8:25 PM:

" Martian0722, A lot of the local FFs Union money goes to charity, like local softball and baseball teams, United Way, MDA, Scholarships, Rape and Abuse Crisis Center, and assistance to FF families of a tragedy. That's just the tip of the iceburg. "

sprintcarcrazy wrote on Oct 17, 2008 8:23 PM:

" I was thinking the union thing too, but even at that, I would not see an issue with EMS hires being in on the union. The main thing is that a board with citizen and professionals as members and fire staff in an advisory role, and city and county leaders in an advisory role would allow the city and county citizens to get the level of service needed without all of the political playing.

Lets get the 911 service under that same board so the Sheriff and Police chief have equal say in and advisory role too. "

beehumble wrote on Oct 17, 2008 8:19 PM:

" Sprint, I am puzzled by your comment "get the political aspect away from it." How do you think an ambulance district with a board of directors isn't political??? I have never heard nor seen a "board" of anything that was not political. Congrats you made me smile today. "

martian0722 wrote on Oct 17, 2008 7:55 PM:

" Of course the union will be in favor of the fire department and city taking on ambulance service. That means they stand to add at least 30 new local union members (excluding mgmt) and those nice union dues.

Huh, if those fireman get promotions and raises for their added duties....that means more money for the union. So.....who is looking at profit? "

martian0722 wrote on Oct 17, 2008 7:41 PM:

" “We have concerns you'll have tax dollars going to subsidize a for-profit service. I don't think that's a good formula at all,” added Spencer.

If there was profit to be made....I am sure CRMC would be happy to keep that service going.

I dont think I have a bad memory, but I am positive that the police is really hurting to fill some positions. Instead of adding law enforcement officers....the city wants to hire 44 EMS staff and 8 ambulances. Huh.....

Maybe the city will lease the ambulances for a full service rental EMS fleet to go with the fleet of leased firetrucks.
My tax dollars hard at work.... "

gofish wrote on Oct 17, 2008 4:34 PM:

" "“We have concerns you'll have tax dollars going to subsidize a for-profit service. I don't think that's a good formula at all,” added Spencer."

Apparently Spence knows absolutely nothing about local, state or federal governement. Look up the company KHB a division of Halliburton. They are a private corp making billions feeding US troops in Iraq using your tax dollars. Ignorance is bliss! "

madmominmo wrote on Oct 17, 2008 2:46 PM:

" I agree. And I am a little frazzled that this issue seems to be reported with some bias. Of course city fire wouldn't support something that would ultimately take the "power" away from them. How do the voters feel about it? How do the ambulance crews feel about it? I think those are the people who'd opinions would matter to me. "

sprintcarcrazy wrote on Oct 17, 2008 10:44 AM:

" The board would depend on recomendations from the qualified staff of the city fire department and county fire districts to make decisions on purchasing, equipment locations and hiring and I am sure we could get some very qualified voters to sit on this board.

The same thing should have been done with the 911 system years ago, but again, the city and county leaders seem to have a real problem with wanting to control rather than the interest of their city and county citizens as being most important. "

sprintcarcrazy wrote on Oct 17, 2008 10:08 AM:

" Why don't someone draw up something and put to the voters forcing the city and county to develope a joint 911 Dispatch system controlled by a board and do the same thing with the ambulance issue.

Let the voters force the city and county to work together since they can't seem to do it on their own. "

sprintcarcrazy wrote on Oct 17, 2008 10:05 AM:

" This appears to be a situation of who wants to have control of this operation.

Same thing with the 911 operations.

The right way to do this is with an ambulance district and a board of directors, some from the city and some from the county, get the political aspect away from it.

Same thing should be done with the 911 system !

The board has the final say.

I am not saying the city fire dept wouldn't do a good job running this, but it's really not fair for the county side to not have any voice in it's operations. "

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