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Our Opinion
Public art provokes reaction

By The News Tribune
Published: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:43 PM CDT
If a teen spray paints an image on a public building during the dark of night, we call it vandalism. But if a professional artist paints a mural on government property under the watchful eye of an audience, we call it public art.

Art Inside the Park, an annual showcase of public art, recently was held along city streets on the East Side. As part of the display, professional artists painted portions of the walls bordering the former Missouri State Penitentiary.

Members of the Prison Redevelopment Commission, a statewide panel overseeing redevelopment of the former prison property, assailed the murals during a meeting Wednesday and voted to have the permanent paint removed from the aging limestone walls. The commission intends to preserve those walls to reflect the historic significance of the prison.

In fairness to the organizers of Art Inside the Park, they asked and were granted permission to paint on the walls by the owner, Missouri government represented by the Office of Administration (OA).

If the commission was unaware of the planned use of the walls, the fault is OA's failure to inform the redevelopment panel of this development.

Redevelopment Commissioner Gene Bushmann on Wednesday said the murals “trivialized the historic nature of the walls” and compared the paintings to “graffiti.”


A purpose of public art is to provoke thought and discussion.

A co-curator of the of the event encouraged appreciation of the artistic form of expression commemorating the prison site.

And the contrast could be made that the artworks represent free expression on physical boundaries that previously constricted freedom.

We wonder, however, whether permanent paint was necessary.

Previous Art Inside the Park works have been temporary and were dismantled after the event. Could a washable paint have been used or some type of appropriate canvas draped over the walls?

Art Inside the Park has been held at other sites - Memorial Park and the Capitol grounds - during its five-year existence.

The event is not inexpensive to stage. Public and private money and in-kind contributions are raised.

The question these benefactors now need to consider is: Has this annual expression of public art worn out its welcome in Jefferson City?



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Thanks.

ODF wrote on Sep 8, 2008 12:50 PM:

" I'd love to know how many workers there are in those buildings in that several square block area vs. how many parking spaces are availabe for employees. Directors and other reserved spots for bigwigs is just ridiculous. Why are overpaid, underworked, politically connected folks so much better than your front line staff (who actually DO the work) that the big dogs need the front door parking? They come in later than other employees, leave earlier, gone for off-site meetings, etc., while the parking could be used for people that actually have work to do! "

ODF wrote on Sep 8, 2008 12:47 PM:

" You hit the nail on the head(s) boscoe!! I think a lot of it is that the city takes advantage of state employees. There is little/no industry or real careers in JC except for state employment. They city knows that state employees must continue to live and/or work here for their livelihood, so the city can take advantage of them, treat them like dirt and the state employees just have to get over it. The state is no different...your example of Truman and DNR state buildings are pefect examples. Also look at Broadway Bldg., Supreme Court Building, Jefferson Building, etc. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 6, 2008 10:09 AM:

" Sorry, but some things are so obvious but people around here just accept poor government and poor services and no one speaks out about the obvious incompetence and waste that would not be tolerated anywhere else by any other business.

That is what is so frustrating- people just accept being fed manure and don't even speak up. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 6, 2008 10:07 AM:

" Also, when is the state or city or whomever going to fix that "Bridge to Nowhere" down by the Truman Building that has been closed for years? Workers have to walk around to the road instead of taking the footbridge that is still blocked off.

Either fix that bridge or tear it down!

Another blight on the city and the city just ignores it and the state workers have to put up with being treated like dirt by the cheapskate state government. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 6, 2008 10:04 AM:

" having to do 2 or 3 jobs after all the cuts and hiring freezes. Whoever designed and built the DNR green building without enough parking should be flogged. And then they justify it by saying that cars pollute, but then they pay millions of dollars to drive a big empty shuttle bus round and round all day long, which costs way more and pollutes way more than building a parking garage as a part of the office building. This whole MSP fiasco is just that: a big huge mismanagement of taxpayer money and a big fat fiasco, but even worse a big blight on the City of Jefferson who is so dumb that they don't even realize it. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 6, 2008 10:01 AM:

" The state never builds enough parking whenever they build a new office building. Just look at the lots down by the Truman Building how workers have to park all over on creek banks and far away, while the big bosses get front-door reserved parking. Meanwhile city hall takes advantage of the situations and has a whole fleet of meter maids to ticket the hell out of anyone who parks longer than an hour by any state building (who ever heard of a state meeting lasting less than an hour?). Naturally is right about the shuttles and city bus service stopping at 5:00 and lots of state workers are working late everyday to try to get the work done due to "

naturally wrote on Sep 5, 2008 5:35 PM:

" I don't work there, I park right outside my door or in a parking garage. I do have family that work there and yes when the shuttle stops at 5:30 and they work late they are stuck walking to the lot. I have measured it on my speedometor. Before you accuse me of exaggerating maybe you need to get out your little pedometer and do some fact checking of your own. "

CityGuy wrote on Sep 5, 2008 5:13 PM:

" It seems to me that you should be taking the shuttle. It always seems like there is plenty of room on it from what I can see. "

CityGuy wrote on Sep 5, 2008 5:06 PM:

" Naturally: I live over there. Reall, you walk a mile? "

CityGuy wrote on Sep 5, 2008 5:06 PM:

" Naturally: I'm just trying to find out what you are getting at and also maybe expose some ironies in your statements.

Stop exaggerating and use facts. "

naturally wrote on Sep 5, 2008 5:02 PM:

" furthermore, when was the last time you walked a mile through that neighborhood to get to your car at 5:45 in the evening? "

naturally wrote on Sep 5, 2008 5:00 PM:

" No, but when the big bucks were planning parking for themselves did they forget (?) that people making less than $100k drive cars too. The promise of a parking garage isn't going to bring the best workforce.
A parking garage would have been simple enough when the building went up instead of trashing historic property.
And stop being condescending. "

CityGuy wrote on Sep 5, 2008 3:57 PM:

" So you're telling me the common people want to tear down the houses of common people for their own convenience? A mile away? Is that a fact? "

naturally wrote on Sep 5, 2008 1:50 PM:

" yeah, be sure and tell the common people that when they have to park a mile away "

CityGuy wrote on Sep 5, 2008 12:51 PM:

" Naturally: They have plenty of room for parking on the prison site. There are 142 acres on the site. The master plan calls for a parking garage and not surface parking. "

naturally wrote on Sep 5, 2008 10:15 AM:

" I'm still going to cling to my guns, Bible, tradition,and Pabst Blue Ribbon.
I see nothing wrong with all this artsy-fartsy stuff just don't try to cover up history. As for taking out the parking lot and reverting to sandlot, I'm all for that too. But then you're going to have to raze some of those handsome homes east of there to allow parking for the DNR building. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 4, 2008 9:27 AM:

" I was being faciesious in my post. I value diversity, but most people in JC hate anyone who is not like them. "

boo whoo wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:23 AM:

" boscoe, well there you go again, did we have a state goverment offical get fired for viewing pornn this year?something to do with the governer's office please answer this or tell us if this is true or false? so don't start finger pointing again unless you use your whole hand, it makes me laugh when perfect people speak, and as howard the duck once said "ha ha ha" "

boscoe wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:46 PM:

" The problem is that conservative and Godly Jeffersonians will not support artists and "those kind of people" moving in to our city. Lord knows we already have problems with rapes, molestors, and other perverts. We sure don't want more of "those people" living in JC. Let them live in the big cities and California where they belong. "

starving wrote on Sep 3, 2008 6:50 PM:

" arted

Sounds like you need to get that aspect going to compliment the current mode of operation for AITP. In fact I read of a corporation being formed to bring wider support for the project and other public art projects. I believe Mike Harvey is the president.
Get-r done! "

arted wrote on Sep 3, 2008 6:19 PM:

" One bothersome thing about AITP is the small % of local artist included. There are many great people from Columbia involved but rarely do Jefferson City folks display work. It would be better to build a stronger base of local artist before inviting people from outside of the area (NY?). Perhaps then the event would gain more support.This event also has a very modern slant and could be more accepted in a conservative community if more traditional forms of artwork were included. Things could even be changed up from a display of work to displays and demonstrations of people working. The greatest way to appreciate something is to see how its done, it wouldnt be hard to find weavers, potters, and woodcarvers nearby. "

starving wrote on Sep 3, 2008 5:43 PM:

" Boo Whoo

It is only because savvy developers realize the importance of cultural institutions that they exist on the east side. If we don't get the city council to figure out how to encourage property owners (or themselves) to subsidize artists in our community, they will be gone from the east side and AITP will vanish also. I know some in this blog say good, but the 2,300 students that came through during one educator day in the past say differently. "

boo whoo wrote on Sep 3, 2008 5:38 PM:

" city, you are right the artist's will keep adding to the mix and as history shows , new york , seattle , san francisco , santa fe, boston , chicago , los angeles ,etc. the artist's go in take run down buildings, houses, fix them up make studios,homes, galleries,then interest takes hold and rents go up taxes go up and artist's get moved out "

CityGuy wrote on Sep 3, 2008 4:31 PM:

" Boo: I thought in one of your posts you mentioned that the artists would get pushed out as the east side develops. I've reviewed your posts and couldn't find it. I guess I was mistaken. Still, I was just trying to be supportive of the artists. I think, as you do, they are important to us on the east side. "

boo whoo wrote on Sep 3, 2008 4:02 PM:

" city, what makes you think i want to move the artists out? there is art everywhere but there will always be the scratch head factor. in all these posts look at the factor but that's what makes it cool love it all, from the flamed out coupe burning rubber to the big bands to the paint on the walls when you look deep into it art is everywhere. 1 2 3 cha cha cha "

OldGenX wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:31 PM:

" That being said, the tone of some of these posts seems to me to imply that contemproary/abstract art is some sort of "higher" form that the unwashed masses just don't "get". It's art, you don't have to like it to get it. There is just as much artistic merit in that tricked out hot rod that a guy builds from scratch in his garage as the Mona Lisa or the girl popping corn. My personal favorite is sculpting in a renewable, bio-degradeable, flammable medium. What us unwashed masses call woodcarving. "

OldGenX wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:21 PM:

" I don't think the AITP idea has worn out its welcome but it does seem that in this case there was a "what we have here, is a failure to communicate" issue. The should keep the idea and maybe even have it at the same location but clean up the grounds a little. "

ODF wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:10 PM:

" Lie to Me! LOL!! "

boxergal wrote on Sep 3, 2008 11:40 AM:

" Johnny Lang, God forbid. Like Columbia. Lucky dogs. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 AM:

" There we go with the public and/or outdoor concerts ideas again! First it was band shells in the parking lots down by the Truman Building, now it is concerts in the old prison.

As someone else pointed out, we already have Glenn Miller orchestra and Rockapella. What other concerts would we have? We got all we need now! We don't need any more concerts! (ha ha) "

boxergal wrote on Sep 3, 2008 7:50 AM:

" I love it too. We drove there yesterday and my gosh, what a perfect backdrop that wall would make for concerts or an open air market. And I didn't realize that the headquarters of this organization was next to O'Donaghues. The headquarters alone is so cool. Can't you all envision kitschy shops alongside of historical homes in that area? I can already see progress. And it seems your artists like it there. I told my husband I can just see another place like 9th street in Columbia. "

cinnamon wrote on Sep 3, 2008 6:47 AM:

" Listen to all of you! I love Art in the Park, and I love that Carla has brought some color here to Pleasantville! I'm gonna pull me up a chair, grab a bowl of popcorn, and continue to enjoy all this dialogue!! "

Mid-Mo wrote on Sep 2, 2008 9:58 PM:

" arted- I totally agree. The parking lot needs to go. I would love to see the baseball "sandlot" back in that area.

I'm going to give the Redevelopment Commission gold here. If I had any pull here, this is what I'd push for. Picture it:

Boxing matches there once or twice a year during the late spring and early fall. We have Boxing at the Plaza. How about "Boxing at the Prison?" That would be awesome, and historically accurate.

How about projecting old prison films on the walls? Or any film from that period. If that isn't the perfect form of art for the prison, I don't know what is. "

arted wrote on Sep 2, 2008 8:23 PM:

" Get your act together and look at what is really the issue. Is it integrity of the structure or is it the committees inability to see this form of art as little more than graffiti in the same manner that citizens of Paris once considered the Eiffel Tower an eye-soar? "

arted wrote on Sep 2, 2008 8:22 PM:

" Public art work is rarely loved by the public within the year of its creation, Richard Serras Tilted Arc is a current example that didnt survive; the Eiffel Tower is a historical one that did. I can accept the committees feelings that the artwork disrupts the historical integrity of the prison walls. However, if the removal of the artwork is done under the pretence of historical integrity, under the same logic it is only necessary that the parking lot that dominates the center of the location also be removed. Preservation is acceptable but hypocrisy is not. "

boscoe wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:58 PM:

" "But if someone tried to start an annual city wide Mardis Gras celebration it might well fizzle."


HEY, Mardi Gras might go over well around here. I know I would throw some beads, especially at the pregnant prostitutes and that chick who works at the convenience store! "

ODF wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:30 PM:

" Is it respectful to the prisoners? Are you serious?
Why should I care what is "respectful" to them when they showed a complete lack of respect for their victims and society's laws. I think tours is a wonderful idea. The place was paid for with public $$ and it was maintained and ran with public $$ so the public has a right and vested interest in touring the grounds. "

CityGuy wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:02 PM:

" Boo: I hope they don't push out the artists from the east side. I think they bring vitality to the area and they will help bring interest to the it. They are important to the revitalization of that area.

Freedom: Having tours of the prison will shed light on what prison life was like from the 1830's to present day and will not trivialize or celebrate it. Few people know what it was like in there. Exposing what prisoners and staff had to endure is a story that is best experienced live. Families of victims should also be able to experience it. It will be as close to being in that enviornment in those times as possible. "

pioneers wrote on Sep 2, 2008 2:45 PM:

" Very well put Mid-MO. "

Mid-Mo wrote on Sep 2, 2008 2:03 PM:

" I love the native stone and architecture. My opinion is that the walls are more beautiful without paint on them. I am, however, glad this situation has resurrected the prison discussion. If the artists intentions were to challenge those in charge of redevelopment and spark public discussion, I applaude them for their accomplishment.

But if you say one is closed minded for not wanting paint on those walls, you are hypocritical. Part of "freedom" is about being able to form and express one's own opinion. One opinion is that the walls are beautiful without paint. You don't have a monopoly on art and your definition of art is not the rule. "

pioneers wrote on Sep 2, 2008 10:24 AM:

" Boo Frank Lloyd Wright definitely had his faults, but he did not ax murder his wife. Google Frank Lloyd Wright grave like I did last night and you'll pull up an article that mentions how the woman he was living with (I'm not sure if they were married) was tragically murdered with other household members by a disgruntled butler who they had been dismissed. "

pioneers wrote on Sep 2, 2008 10:19 AM:

" The MSP site is part of our history. That does not make that part of our history good or bad.

We don't consider slavery to be a good part of our history. But we acknowledge it happened. And we try to learn from that part of our history. Trying to ignore it, pretend it didn't exist or gloss over it doesn't make sense. Looking at leg irons that were used on slaves is not celebrating slavery. Looking at the walls around the MSP site is not celebrating prisons.

Acknowledging that prisoners built the wall is not celebrating that fact. "

freedom wrote on Sep 2, 2008 10:02 AM:

" pioneer - don't you think prison tours could be seen as trivializing what went on inside? Is it respectful to the prisoners and those who died to let families poke around in the gas chamber, as one lady talked about doing with her family. I know you'll use the alcatraz example or the eastern penitentiary in Philly, but does it make it right? And why not turn the walls into a contemporary form of expression and art? Let the walls become new again through contemporary art. And experiencing art is not the same as going to an Octoberfest. Art as we now know will speak WITHOUT waiting to be spoken too, and this initimidates the cornered committee hype dogs that simply bark. "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 2, 2008 9:56 AM:

" ~~~~~Excuse me, Mr. Wright would roll over in his grave. "

Considering that Frank Lloyd Wright was cremated I don't think my comparison is going to have that kind of an impact. "~~~~~~

Now that was hilarious! Good one Pioneers!

You have to admit, Boxer. "

freedom wrote on Sep 2, 2008 9:19 AM:

" Pioneer- nobody is arguing that those walls aren't a PART of the prisons architecture, you are making quite a reach by comparing them to a Frank Lloyd Wright structure. Perhaps you want to compare the prison design to Jeremy Bentham's Panopticon design for modern prisons... but then you have no leg to stand on when talking about prison architecture. His design was recognized as forward thinking. His design also commented on society, that being able to monitor people all the time will keep them in line. Sound familiar?

And I find it abhorrent that you would celebrate the fact that prisoners built the prison, that's quite akin to cannabalism. And yes prison tours are fascinating considering that atrocities are exciting to hear about. "

boo whoo wrote on Sep 2, 2008 9:10 AM:

" frank Lloyd wright , was gifted but had a dark side i think he axe murdered his wife. so would you put a frown face on the wall ? all in all its just some paint on the wall. "

boxergal wrote on Sep 2, 2008 7:52 AM:

" Yep, I agree totally. Its your project, would like to hear more about it. "

Pioneers wrote on Sep 2, 2008 7:26 AM:

" That's your opinion. As you know, you and I usually have different opinions. This forum is here so that people like you and I can express our opinions. I hope we can do so without insulting each other or trying to belittle this community.

The News Tribune editor asking whether AITP has worn out its welcome in Jefferson City should not cause anyone to start slinging mud at the paper or the viewpoints of people who answer that question with a "yes." "

boxergal wrote on Sep 2, 2008 6:56 AM:

" Then he is churning in his urn, cause believe me, there is NO comparison. "

pioneers wrote on Sep 1, 2008 11:55 PM:

" Boxer said: I come from a city that has one of Frank Lloyd Wright's homes. You are comparing THAT prison with one of his houses? Excuse me, Mr. Wright would roll over in his grave. "

Considering that Frank Lloyd Wright was cremated I don't think my comparison is going to have that kind of an impact. "

pioneers wrote on Sep 1, 2008 11:39 PM:

" The age of the walls, the materials, how they were constructed, and the fact that prisoners built them all make them unique, historic, interesting, and valuable to me. Don't paint them or do things that can damage them. I hope the new master developer recognizes their value and considers saving them from further damage a high priority.

I'm not alone. As I mentioned on the other article, in 10/04 there were 20,000 people who toured the site in one weekend. They may not have considered the walls to be artistic but they did think it was worth the wait to get inside them and tour the site. "

boxergal wrote on Sep 1, 2008 11:10 PM:

" Maybe if you all had painted a weinie dog on the wall they would have been happy. "

boxergal wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:52 PM:

" I was going to say something and then thought better of it. But here goes...YOU must be kidding me. I come from a city that has one of Frank Lloyd Wright's homes. You are comparing THAT prison with one of his houses? Excuse me, Mr. Wright would roll over in his grave. "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:06 PM:

" ~~~~~I find the paint on the MSP walls comparable to painting a smiley face on the door to a building designed by Frank Lloyd Wright.~~~~~

Do you still want to argue with my earlier assertion, boo whoo? Take the above statement. This person is comparing a delapidated wall that surrounds a state parking lot to a Frank Wright structure. lol. Pioneers represents J.C. Pioneers IS J.C. These folks are interested in Pabst Blue Ribbon and the number of points on a deer rack. They've spoken, and they do not want art in this town. I still say, take this event to a community that would embrace it. I'd drive the distance to participate! "

pioneers wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:55 PM:

" A community should have events that fit the community.

Oktober Fest is a good example. The Old Munichburg Association has been sponsoring this event for around 10 years, which is not a long time. It gets bigger and in my opinion better each year.

But if someone tried to start an annual city wide Mardis Gras celebration it might well fizzle.

So why do we have a big Oktober Fest and no Mardis Gras? Probably because we like weiner dog races, old cars and German food more than beads and gawdy floats.

If AITP doesn't appeal to us, it doesn't mean we aren't interested in art. It just means AITP is not our cup of tea. "

pioneers wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:11 PM:

" Architecture is an art form. My dictionary defines architecture as the science, art, or profession of designing and constructing buildings, bridges, etc.

The MSP walls are achitecture.

I find the paint on the MSP walls comparable to painting a smiley face on the door to a building designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. Regardless of whether the building in restored, or in need of major rehab, don't paint a face on it. It's better to leave it untouched than to challenge anyone by a trendy change. "

wyattrash wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:48 PM:

" the art in the park this yr was terrible
but has anyone looked at the inside of the prison ?

anything would be better than what they have
I think they should have kids go in there every weekend and paint
good lord why are you people so uptight? "

boxergal wrote on Sep 1, 2008 4:26 PM:

" But I would love it if you would keep fighting for the arts. "

boxergal wrote on Sep 1, 2008 4:24 PM:

" I believe Mac is saying exactly that. Lets get real...any city and newspaper that glorifies mudruns and the redneck activities at the fair is just not going to change. So I believe what Mac is saying is for all those in JC and the surrounding areas that would like some cultural change, you might as well give it up because I really doubt its going to happen. So you are stuck with an old prison, a football field and those bubble haired do gooders that proclaim the local ice cream parlor and a little gallery on Dunklin to be a slice of heaven. I am like Mac, I give up. "

freedom wrote on Sep 1, 2008 4:20 PM:

" Hey Boo whooo, I think you are taking mac's comments literally. I think you are both saying about the same thing, just that MAC is saying giv up on JC. He may or may not be right. Though I am curious since so many intelligent people have spoken out favorably about what happened, how many minds may have been opened? And yes Mac I agree that a city or town that is more open to contemporary art would have been an easier go, but if you look at where a number of these guys come from they tend to always preach to their urban open minded culture choir. "

boo whoo wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:33 PM:

" to mac1974, i do hope you come back to AITP because maybe you will connect with one of the artist's work and then you will understand a little about life it takes all you me and the rest, NOT JUST YOU!
peace to you and all the best "

boo whoo wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:28 PM:

" to mac1974, war was never mentioned but since you openned it up. alot of men & women have stood up for freedom of speech and yes gave their lifes if you think that you can speak for the whole city and small towns around this area you have been sniffing your hair spray too much!people like you don't want to talk, you want to blab with nothing to say you are like a little kid with a toy you never play with and when some else plays with its yours all yours just like you think you speak for jc most peopleat your comments, why because if you did relize jc is the state capital what better place to bring new thinking! "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2008 1:58 PM:

" but their interest should have been sacrificed so many people could have enjoyed it in another town. This town has made it absolutely CRYSTAL CLEAR that culture is NOT on the top of their agenda. AITP wasn't welcome here before the permanent paint.

Bottom line... the event was held and the community has stepped forward and spoken via the NT's threads under their stories, via the NT's own commentary, and via the local gov't. By and large, they don't want it. Why not appease them? "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2008 1:53 PM:

" ~~~~~to mac1974, who said you have to come to AITP stay home in your pea pod of hope for your future. you have that right just like you have the right to speak out!~~~~~

You're the umpteenth person to compare this to an anti-war rally. It's not! This was a group of artists who came together to share their work with the community. I did attend and filled a 2 gig card with photos.... I was interested in this. That does NOT change the fact that it was futile to have this event in Jefferson City, Missouri. It was a waste! Sure, a few folks appreciated it "

boo whoo wrote on Sep 1, 2008 1:19 PM:

" to mac1974, who said you have to come to AITP stay home in your pea pod of hope for your future. you have that right just like you have the right to speak out! and yes the kind people who get behind a project like this are giving a gift a gift of art for youth and all seeing many people with smiles on their faces are enough to keep doing it. but not everyone can appreciate new ideas and creative flow thats why people like city guy , pionneer, freedom, still have transfer of thought not a torch in their hand to chase off rights, the rights of free thought and creative flow , not someone with mold in their head ,welcome 2008 "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2008 12:44 PM:

" ~~~~~But I don't understand how ad hominems like the above address the core issue of the art project's value to the community or the related issue of how this piece of publicly-owned property should be utilized.~~~~~

Oh look, the NT has hired Sean Hannity! The core issue WAS a few rednecks complaining about the use of permanent paint until the NT suggested the benefactors stop contributing to AITP. This article is called an "agenda." "

Mac1974 wrote on Sep 1, 2008 12:39 PM:

" Was AITP ever welcome here? I mean really welcomed by a majority of the community? Absolutely not. Much of the community didn't care and many more were downright offended.

I say leave Jefferson City to its guns and god and take the event to a city that truly appreciates the hard work these artists want to share. Why can't these folks take the event to Columbia? "

Easton wrote on Sep 1, 2008 12:19 PM:

" Another worthless article by the NT. I'd just as soon that the editors keep their opinions to themselves. Who in the world are they to introduce the suggestion that Art Inside the Park has worn out its welcome in JC?

I'm about sick of these self-important, barely-informed opinions from our "esteemed" newspaper. "

boo whoo wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:51 AM:

" cityguy, i think that everyone including the artists
gave respect to the outside walls and yes the walls on the outside are one of kind however the walls on the inside are again not takin care of. one of the reasons that AITP was granted for the site was to bring people to the area.which time after time artists have made creative spaces all over this country with sweat and imagination only to forced out by higher taxes and developers. just this form has brought interest to the area. and i think it is great that your group are making improvments.but you stand to come out the artists are faced with being forced out.so be thankful that the willing to express goes far morethanpaint "

boscoe wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:38 AM:

" Why can't JCPD patrol the park and keep it secure? It isn't that big of a place. That's what I would do- get JCPD to step up the patrols of the park. "

carla wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:57 AM:

" Security:

The park allows youth or curious adults access through many locations. The visual art installations have sometimes been valued at $30,000 by museums. Without the necessary support of our municipality our little organization must evaluate the vandalism incurred and focus our exhibits on locations that are easier to secure.

Yes, ART INSIDE THE PARK has been the victim of vandalism in Memorial Park. If our city/county were to decide culture were worthy of support ART INSIDE THE PARK could be held at their pleasure. "

freedom wrote on Aug 31, 2008 11:21 PM:

" Good to hear your feelings.

Isn't there enough wall to go around? And don't you think they need to be transformed? Used again? I find what those prison walls represent is a fascinating comment on society. I find the painting that was done on those walls also represent a contemporary view of those walls and gives them a new life in society. You are clearly not the only one that disagrees with the paint on the walls, but some are using the issue to grind axes. The inside walls were seen as creative spaces. Imagine using again and again, to paint over and over, an ever changing public canvas. Let them be walls for creation and not relegate them forever as a decaying prison. "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 31, 2008 10:36 PM:

" I just think that since each stone was made by hand and no 2 are alike and that the wall was built by hand so long ago it is a work of art. The pattern and wheathering of the stone and mortar together is pleasing to my eye.

Now why don't you tell me why the wall should be considered art?

I feel that Carla threatened those of us that disagree with the painting of the wall by saying she would do more of it next year. Wasn't that a threat by her? "

boxergal wrote on Aug 31, 2008 10:10 PM:

" Well, wouldn't go that far but I consider myself open minded. I am ready for the youth to lead and for a lot of these dinosaurs to fade into the background. Why can't you all meet in the middle? I can just see kitschy little houses on the east end fixed up into shops like Austin has. Enough of the stuffiness its getting that city no where. Heck you all might even get old Kinky Friedman to run for Mayor. Anything would be an improvement. "

freedom wrote on Aug 31, 2008 9:59 PM:

" Boxergal, you are beautiful... "

freedom wrote on Aug 31, 2008 9:57 PM:

" I believe City Guy this is your quote...
" You are wrong Carla. You didn't enhance anything. If you want to continue to have art in the park here you need to back off saying you are going to paint more on the wallls. "

That my friend is a threat & demonstrates your refusal to accept anyone else's opinions or feelings about those walls. The artists supported those walls and their works speaks to that, because I bothered to try and understand it. So perhaps you'd like to explain why those walls are art... not that I disagree with you, I'm just curious of your understanding, or is it just a petty twist you are making. "

boxergal wrote on Aug 31, 2008 9:44 PM:

" As the mom of a creative writing student, I could stand up and applaud. I knew this day would come. Yes, god bless those that think outside of the box with their art, writings, music and dance. I keep thinking of Austin Texas and its funky attitude. If JC would just let loose some it could have that and probably make a mint doing it. You all want tourism, you are going to have to lighten up some and go with it. Embrace it and become another Austin, its your only chance to make the city into something. "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 31, 2008 8:21 PM:

" I think it is a great idea to preserve the art in the cells. You are preaching to the chior. OA and the MSP Commission are the ones that need to be convinced not me. "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 31, 2008 8:16 PM:

" I thought artists had open minds and could see and understand all points of view. Apparently I was wrong. I don't think I have criticized the art itself. I like it but it should be some where else. Why do you need total and complete acceptance. Why can't you take the criticisim and go from there. And why are you afraid to admit the walls themselves are art? You seem to be the closed minded ones. "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 31, 2008 8:13 PM:

" Freedom: Iknow OA was credited with giving permission. I'd like to know who did it and what were the terms. There should have been written guidelines and I'd like to know them. If there weren't any, some one made a mistake and I'd like to know who was responsible.

I have renovated 2 homes on the east side and am starting my third. I am part of two groups that have helped to revitalize that area. And guess what, I support the Art Museum both monetarily and with my appreciation of that. That doesn't mean I can't speak out when I think you are wrong. "

boscoe wrote on Aug 31, 2008 7:50 PM:

" Please explain how "security" was a problem at the park? I feel a whole lot safer there than I do at the prison or even at the capitol building. "

freedom wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:52 PM:

" city guy... The "liberties" came from OA... re-read the previous article, it's right in the beginning... thanks! "

freedom wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:38 PM:

" ...and pioneer, don't forget some blessing for him. "

freedom wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:37 PM:

" ... and may god bless those walls, and the challenging work that is on them! And yes god it's ok to bless city guy too. "

boo whoo wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:21 PM:

" pioneer, you are right when it comes to the progress in the east end one of the new sites the contemporay art museum on chestnut & high. with in those walls hundreds OF people have been apart of the wave of interest in the area. and the young artists that show their creative flow along with learning about the arts, among the other young that have had creative sparks from AITP. beware because some of these young artists will carry on the freedom of expression, you nor any one can stop it. in other countries they put artists in those walls.let freedom ring in paint,neon ,dance,poetry, music,etc etc etc.god bless the USA. and carla for AITP "

freedom wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:13 PM:

" So City Guy... why not help with the homes and the people that surround the prison if you are so interested in the east side? The moldy walls you call art, are set to be torn down according to the dev commitee "master plan." Why not preserve the art work inside the prison cells? Instead of allowing pigeons to dump all over it. I get you have shut your mind to understanding the new art that is on those walls. Maybe it's time for YOU to do something instead of leaving it to artists to make a mark and start the dialogue. Oh wait, maybe you want that dialogue to be amongst only a few that will profit from whatever is developed. "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:04 PM:

" Boo Whoo: If you have read some of my other posts I have been in support of art in the park. I just think painting the walls was a mistake. The walls were art in themselves. Why don't you see that? Why don't you open your mind.

Also I did speak out about the hole in the wall and the ensuing parking lot. You just weren't around to hear it. And just becasue one bad thing was done doesn't mean it's OK the do more bad things.

I have worked very hard over the last 7 years to help bring back the east side. What have you done besides paint on a wall? "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 31, 2008 5:49 PM:

" Boo Whoo: Usually when some one attacks like you have they don't have anything intelligent. I'd be glad to respond if I could understand your tirade.

Freedom: I'd like to know just who gave you the liberties you speak of and what were the details. Was it just an Okie Doke or were there stipulations in writing. If Carla or someone else would like to give a detailed honest explaination of how it happened I like to hear it. "

pioneers wrote on Aug 31, 2008 5:21 PM:

" Wow Boo, you have quite an attitude.

Many people have worked for years on the prison redevelopment and on revitalizing the eastside. We aren't sitting on our hands my dear Boo. And we don't see painting on the MSP walls as something new. Painting on walls is old. It doesn't belong on the MSP site in my opinion.

You want to talk about opening your mind to something new, how about the new idea of reusing old buildings and old sites instead of destroying them and building new? Recycling old buildings is the ultimate green approach to planning livable communities. But covering those old buildings with paintings that some people consider art and others consider grafitti is a step backwards. "

boo whoo wrote on Aug 31, 2008 3:48 PM:

" to cityguy, if you could only open your mind instead of your feelings for anything new. you are, and your kind are the reason, the reason that so many things
never get done and when someone takes the hard work to produce , instead of sit on their hands and do nothing, then point your finger about what you think the world should be, guess what if you would have spoke up when they blew a big ugly hole in your sacared wall. maybe it is your handy work huh? because its people like you that what to hold back anything new if you care so much about your wall start doing not pointing. you should close your pie trap "

freedom wrote on Aug 31, 2008 1:58 PM:

" City Guy: Actually the liberties were given to paint those walls. If the city were to want to build a prison in your backyard claiming it would be seen as a "historic" building in 100 years would that suffice? It was time for those walls to take on some change, not continue to grow mold. "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 31, 2008 1:16 PM:

" The state legislature of that time wanted to paint over it after he was commissoined to paint the murals. Michelangelo was also commmissioned to paint the Sistine Chapel. Your group was not commissioned to paint those walls. What you did was take liberties you were not given. "

carla wrote on Aug 31, 2008 12:51 PM:

" CityGuy
The Cistine Chapel was enhanced by Michelangelo.
To judge the art of one's own time is an act of genius,
who was it that wanted to white wash the Benton murals? "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:47 AM:

" Carla: The walls as they stand are art in and of themselves and should be appreciated as they are. To deface their beauty is wrong. Would you paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa or slogans on the Cistine Chapel? "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:30 AM:

" You are wrong Carla. You didn't enhance anything. If you want to continue to have art in the park here you need to back off saying you are going to paint more on the wallls. "

carla wrote on Aug 31, 2008 5:07 AM:

" Just to let you know, security is the issue for the park. Last year the capitol was an exceptional exhibit space because of security, building a new theme requires new space for the visiting artists. Security at the MSP was also fantastic.

PS the NT editor said the same things before the event as after the event, no surprise here. He underestimates Jefferson City's need and want for culture. The MSP is a great place for this event, the walls could continue to host the exceptional work of visual artists like 2008. I have a great respect for history and feel we have enhanced and called more attention to a destination. "

online_editor wrote on Aug 31, 2008 2:22 AM:

" I agree with you, boscoe; this topic has spurred some thought-provoking posts from everyone.

Just to clarify to everyone, I didn't write this editorial myself but I acknowledge any personal bias about it I might have as a newspaper employee. I only commented on the responses to say, hey, I enjoyed those ad hominems because of their cleverness, but I'd also like to hear more about how you (plural) think the project was/is valuable. If you disagree with the editorial, cool. I was merely requesting more insight into your viewpoint because I thought it would make interesting discussion, but there's no pressure, you don't hafta elaborate in that manner if you don't wanna. Carry on. :) "

boscoe wrote on Aug 30, 2008 5:59 PM:

" These are all some pretty good comments on this thread. The exploitation of the paper by the preservationists seems plausable to me. Thinking outside the box or challenging the status quo is not valued around here, that is for sure.

Maybe we should be happy that the old prison site was being used for something other than storage of rusting surplus property and for the growing of weeds, brush, and vines.

I'm not sure that an abandoned prison is the best place for an art show, especially one called "Art Inside the Park". How about putting it back in the park where it belongs? "

CityGuy wrote on Aug 30, 2008 4:20 PM:

" I think the Art In the Park event is great for Jefferson City. I think painting the walls was wrong. I think the failure of OA and the MSP Commission to maintain the Sonny Liston painting is wrong. It is part of the history of the prison. I think OA and the MSP Commision have dropped the ball on the redevelopment of the prison site. We need people on the MSP Commisson that want get something done on the site and not continue to squander this great opportunity to develop it for tourisim. "

freedom wrote on Aug 30, 2008 1:57 PM:

" "If a teen spray paints an image on a public building during the dark of night, we call it vandalism. But if a professional artist paints a mural on government property under the watchful eye of an audience, we call it public art."

Online editor - Your "clever" analogy is not what happened at AITP. You misrepresent what happened at the event and pander to a committee member trying to save face. You allow public officials to throw around the word Graffiti without asking what Graffiti is. Nothing in AITP was graffiti. And please tell us what non-permanent paint is? You mean pretty Canvas' of a beach scene? Oh wait was that a rhetorical question, like you questioning the continuation of funding art events. "

online_editor wrote on Aug 30, 2008 12:57 PM:

" 'you the bush wacker'
'now get that tie adjusted and pennies in your loafers'
'akin to Nazi's burning books'
'The ASLEEP committee'

I admit, as a newspaper employee, I'm probably biased about our own editorials. That's why I try not to weigh in much here with my own opinions. But I don't understand how ad hominems like the above address the core issue of the art project's value to the community or the related issue of how this piece of publicly-owned property should be utilized. I do have an appreciation for the cleverness of the semantics that were used to craft the posts, however. ;) "

new blood wrote on Aug 30, 2008 10:59 AM:

" looking from the outside, looking in. it is really close minded that you the bush wacker would speak of art that you might like or not like. and use your form to drag down the new blood that is living in jc.and the thing we have to ask . do people want to read your junk? do the smart good hearted people of jc like something they don't see in the heatland? but pretty little cuttie ducks and teddy bears.the image of the flag means to all freedom!! to speak create etc. the question we should ask do the benefactors really want to live with out freedom? freedom will never ware out SIR! now get that tie adjusted and pennies in your loafers. "

freedom wrote on Aug 30, 2008 8:30 AM:

" FYI... this "our opinion" didn't actually offer an opinion, just loaded questions and limited information. "

freedom wrote on Aug 30, 2008 8:29 AM:

" One more thing... The permanent paint issue is just being used to fan flames. The AITP event had been in planning for over a year. Artists use paint! It's permanent! Why is art relegated to the level of "Don't color outside the lines." Before those permanent prison bricks were layed wasn' the countryside probably beautiful? heading down to the MO River?? Please stop the close mindedness and build on what has already been done, add to it, reinvent those walls! Your Committee will fail you again!! especially when a big Marriot goes up on that site. "

freedom wrote on Aug 30, 2008 8:11 AM:

" It is astonishing that because Gene Bushmann used the "evil" word Graffiti, you would do away with an art celebration?? Because Carla Steck challenged you, you want to close up your minds and end a cultural event, because some don't "understand" the art? If I don't like an article in your newspaper do I threaten to end free speech? Is that conceivable? The question you pose in ending AITP is loaded and akin to Nazi's burning books because somebody might risk expanding their thinking. I think this paper is doing a disservice to the community by blaming this problem on AITP. The ASLEEP committee is taking advantage of this newspaper to further an agenda... don't be fooled. "


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