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$84.6 million plan unveiled for convention center
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By Kris Hilgedick
khil@newstribune.com
Jefferson City's proposed new conference center will need a mix of public and private money to become a reality, developers said Monday as they laid out their plans for an $84.6 million hotel and conference center.
The plans were unveiled at a meeting of the city's Design and Construction Committee.
In late May, developers presented preliminary architectural ideas for the form and shape of the building. On Monday, the team shared its plan to finance the facility, a proposal calling for governmental leaders to tap eight categories of potential public funding.
Stephen Moffett - hospitality division president for Garfield Traub - said extensive pre-development planning has yielded an “efficient building” with 250 hotel rooms and 40,400 square feet of meeting and ballroom space.
“We've come in and very extensively looked at what the project needs to be ... and how to finance it,” said Moffett.
Pitching their ideas to Jefferson City leaders gathered at City Hall, the development team consisted of general contractors (Turner Construction Company); architects (DLR Group); hoteliers (InterContinental Hotels Group); developers (Garfield Traub and Lane4 Properties Group) and investment bankers (Piper Jaffray and Company).
The facility, featuring a full service hotel with around-the-clock room service, will be flagged a “Crown Plaza” and operated by the Intercontinental Hotels Group. The group operates seven hotel brands, both affordable and luxury, in 100 countries and hosts more than 160 million stays per year.
“Let me tell you how pleased we are to be a part of the project,” said Mike Higgins, regional vice-president for the InterContinental Hotels Group. He noted Crown Plaza hotels tout themselves as “The Place to Meet,” so being affiliated with a conference center makes sense for the company.
As envisioned, the project will cost $350.36 per square foot to build, a pricey figure, Moffett conceded.
A facility with such large amounts of meeting room space would require 750 hotel rooms, not 250, he said. But hoteliers picked the smaller number so conference center guests attracted by the large, new convention space would spill over into the surrounding hotels.
The public/private partnership breaks apart the expenses, with the hotel anticipated to cost $28.6 million and the conference center pegged at $56 million for a total cost of $84.6 million.
Financing the hotel would require money from two basic sources, bank loans ($26 million) and investors ($2.6 million). The investors could be individuals, corporations or pension funds.
Moffett said hotels are “risky” investments, because the rents are for single nights, rather than extended leases.
“Investors are looking for a higher rate of return,” he said.
Local banks are anticipated to do most of the lending, mainly because they are expected to underwrite the debt “on a slightly more favorable basis,” said Moffett.
Moffett's plan calls for $43.1 million in public funding.
Here are some of the sources for annual potential revenue:
* Create a Community Improvement District for three existing, nearby hotels in the downtown corridor and the new conference center. Allow a 1 percent tax to be charged on hotel services.
* Create a Transportation Development District at just the new conference center site. A special one-cent sales tax would help pay for infrastructure on the block.
* Raise the lodging tax by nine cents. The current lodging tax is 3 cents - below what many other communities charge, Moffett said. Under state statute, the city can raise the tax to five cents; however, a nine-cent change would require the approval of the Missouri Legislature. The plan is to go to 14 cents. (Two to three cents would return to operate the Convention and Visitors Bureau.)
* Use tax-increment financing (TIF) to capture new property taxes created by the new construction, versus taxes generated by the existing owners. Parcels on the block at 200 W. McCarty St. are controlled by Housing Authority, the City and a few private owners.
* Use TIF to capture new sales taxes generated by the new construction of the hotel.
* Shift the current tax abatement at the Capitol Plaza Hotel to the new conference center.
* Encourage state leaders to approve a “Super TIF.” Currently, the state collects sales taxes of 4.225 cents on every $1 spent. Under a Super TIF, half of that sales tax would be dedicated to the TIF district. The city's sales tax would be diverted, as well.
“The city would be ‘all in,'” explained Jack Dillingham, public finance investment banker for Piper Jaffray.
* Unspecified other sources.
Added all together, the list comes to $2.86 million in potential public revenues the first year.
But the plans also hold the city's general revenue fund responsible, if financing plans go awry.
“The city would agree to appropriate (funding) in case of shortfalls,” said Moffett. “That's the back stop.”
Moffett's plan also calls for $12.9 million in “grants, naming rights and letters of credit.”
He said this last source of revenue is a fairly new concept for developers. Basically, it gives corporations and individuals the opportunity to help share the costs of building the center, in exchange for using the venue as a way to promote their names.
“It's a very effective means of advertising,” touted Moffett.
If this plan meets with approval from council leaders, detailed architectural and engineering drawings would begin this fall. Final financing would fall into place by November 2009; at the same time, construction would begin.
The parking garage would be complete the summer of 2011, with a hotel grand opening tentatively scheduled for October of that year.
Mayor John Landwehr said he thinks past conference center efforts “lacked specificity.”
“Today was not a ground-breaking ... it was not a ribbon-cutting,” he said. “But it's a very good road map.”
The development team was charged with creating a plan that wouldn't require property or sales tax increases for citizens, nor would jeopardize the city's budget or general revenue fund.
“They said, ‘Let's be as creative as we can.' In my opinion, this is very do-able,” the mayor said.
Dewey Newton, general manager for the Kansas City office of Turner Construction Company, felt the team has created a plan that reflects current economic realities.
“These are ‘meet or beat' numbers, because they are the real numbers we need to meet or beat,” he added.
Community Improvement District - $350,000
Transportation Development District - $100,000
Lodging Tax - $1,400,000
TIF property taxes - $210,000
TIF sales taxes - $225,000
Capital Plaza abatement - $35,000
Super TIF revenues - $210,000
Other sources - $330,000
Total Annual Revenues - $2,860,000
.........Hotel - Conference Center - Total........
Total Budget $28,600,000 - $56,000,00 - $84,600,000
Sources of Funding
Bank Loans $26,000,000 - 0 - $26,000,000
Investors $ 2,600,000 - 0 - $ 2,600,000
Public 0 - $43,100,000 - $43,100,000
Grants, Naming Rights 0 - $12,900,000 - $12,900,000
Total Sources $28,600,000 - $56,000,000 - $84,600,000
The plans were unveiled at a meeting of the city's Design and Construction Committee.
In late May, developers presented preliminary architectural ideas for the form and shape of the building. On Monday, the team shared its plan to finance the facility, a proposal calling for governmental leaders to tap eight categories of potential public funding.
Stephen Moffett - hospitality division president for Garfield Traub - said extensive pre-development planning has yielded an “efficient building” with 250 hotel rooms and 40,400 square feet of meeting and ballroom space.
“We've come in and very extensively looked at what the project needs to be ... and how to finance it,” said Moffett.
Pitching their ideas to Jefferson City leaders gathered at City Hall, the development team consisted of general contractors (Turner Construction Company); architects (DLR Group); hoteliers (InterContinental Hotels Group); developers (Garfield Traub and Lane4 Properties Group) and investment bankers (Piper Jaffray and Company).
The facility, featuring a full service hotel with around-the-clock room service, will be flagged a “Crown Plaza” and operated by the Intercontinental Hotels Group. The group operates seven hotel brands, both affordable and luxury, in 100 countries and hosts more than 160 million stays per year.
“Let me tell you how pleased we are to be a part of the project,” said Mike Higgins, regional vice-president for the InterContinental Hotels Group. He noted Crown Plaza hotels tout themselves as “The Place to Meet,” so being affiliated with a conference center makes sense for the company.
As envisioned, the project will cost $350.36 per square foot to build, a pricey figure, Moffett conceded.
A facility with such large amounts of meeting room space would require 750 hotel rooms, not 250, he said. But hoteliers picked the smaller number so conference center guests attracted by the large, new convention space would spill over into the surrounding hotels.
The public/private partnership breaks apart the expenses, with the hotel anticipated to cost $28.6 million and the conference center pegged at $56 million for a total cost of $84.6 million.
Financing the hotel would require money from two basic sources, bank loans ($26 million) and investors ($2.6 million). The investors could be individuals, corporations or pension funds.
Moffett said hotels are “risky” investments, because the rents are for single nights, rather than extended leases.
“Investors are looking for a higher rate of return,” he said.
Local banks are anticipated to do most of the lending, mainly because they are expected to underwrite the debt “on a slightly more favorable basis,” said Moffett.
Moffett's plan calls for $43.1 million in public funding.
Here are some of the sources for annual potential revenue:
* Create a Community Improvement District for three existing, nearby hotels in the downtown corridor and the new conference center. Allow a 1 percent tax to be charged on hotel services.
* Create a Transportation Development District at just the new conference center site. A special one-cent sales tax would help pay for infrastructure on the block.
* Raise the lodging tax by nine cents. The current lodging tax is 3 cents - below what many other communities charge, Moffett said. Under state statute, the city can raise the tax to five cents; however, a nine-cent change would require the approval of the Missouri Legislature. The plan is to go to 14 cents. (Two to three cents would return to operate the Convention and Visitors Bureau.)
* Use tax-increment financing (TIF) to capture new property taxes created by the new construction, versus taxes generated by the existing owners. Parcels on the block at 200 W. McCarty St. are controlled by Housing Authority, the City and a few private owners.
* Use TIF to capture new sales taxes generated by the new construction of the hotel.
* Shift the current tax abatement at the Capitol Plaza Hotel to the new conference center.
* Encourage state leaders to approve a “Super TIF.” Currently, the state collects sales taxes of 4.225 cents on every $1 spent. Under a Super TIF, half of that sales tax would be dedicated to the TIF district. The city's sales tax would be diverted, as well.
“The city would be ‘all in,'” explained Jack Dillingham, public finance investment banker for Piper Jaffray.
* Unspecified other sources.
Added all together, the list comes to $2.86 million in potential public revenues the first year.
But the plans also hold the city's general revenue fund responsible, if financing plans go awry.
“The city would agree to appropriate (funding) in case of shortfalls,” said Moffett. “That's the back stop.”
Moffett's plan also calls for $12.9 million in “grants, naming rights and letters of credit.”
He said this last source of revenue is a fairly new concept for developers. Basically, it gives corporations and individuals the opportunity to help share the costs of building the center, in exchange for using the venue as a way to promote their names.
“It's a very effective means of advertising,” touted Moffett.
If this plan meets with approval from council leaders, detailed architectural and engineering drawings would begin this fall. Final financing would fall into place by November 2009; at the same time, construction would begin.
The parking garage would be complete the summer of 2011, with a hotel grand opening tentatively scheduled for October of that year.
Mayor John Landwehr said he thinks past conference center efforts “lacked specificity.”
“Today was not a ground-breaking ... it was not a ribbon-cutting,” he said. “But it's a very good road map.”
The development team was charged with creating a plan that wouldn't require property or sales tax increases for citizens, nor would jeopardize the city's budget or general revenue fund.
“They said, ‘Let's be as creative as we can.' In my opinion, this is very do-able,” the mayor said.
Dewey Newton, general manager for the Kansas City office of Turner Construction Company, felt the team has created a plan that reflects current economic realities.
“These are ‘meet or beat' numbers, because they are the real numbers we need to meet or beat,” he added.
Capital plan for conference center
Public finance resources - potential annual revenuesCommunity Improvement District - $350,000
Transportation Development District - $100,000
Lodging Tax - $1,400,000
TIF property taxes - $210,000
TIF sales taxes - $225,000
Capital Plaza abatement - $35,000
Super TIF revenues - $210,000
Other sources - $330,000
Total Annual Revenues - $2,860,000
Public/private financing model
.........Hotel - Conference Center - Total........
Total Budget $28,600,000 - $56,000,00 - $84,600,000
Sources of Funding
Bank Loans $26,000,000 - 0 - $26,000,000
Investors $ 2,600,000 - 0 - $ 2,600,000
Public 0 - $43,100,000 - $43,100,000
Grants, Naming Rights 0 - $12,900,000 - $12,900,000
Total Sources $28,600,000 - $56,000,000 - $84,600,000
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lovemyboys wrote on Jun 3, 2009 9:46 AM: " Instead of complaining and bashing (which do nothing), why don't you "be the change you want to see?" Did you know that USA Today had one of their reps tour all 50 state capitals and Missouri's ranked #1? Call the Convention and Visitors Bureau...you'll be amazed at the projects they have in the works and are just trying to get funding together for it. The Mayor has also requested Federal Stimulus money to help fund the Convention center...no guarantees but at least he's trying. Did you know that St. Louis and KC reps are always shocked and amazed when they call the CVB at all the FREE tours we offer? (ie, the Capitol, Lohman's Landing, Runge Nature Center)....? " lovemyboys wrote on Jun 3, 2009 9:39 AM: " You all also need to realize that private sector businesses that you want to come to town will not consider JC if there is no adequate convention facilities. It's a two way street...noone is going to start a small business unless they are guaranteed the business. A Convention center would help do just that.....the prison redevelopment is going to also bring more "nightlife" (ie night clubs, etc) and tourists to the area. The Convention and Visitors Bureau is working on getting signage done but it's expensive and they depend on the Lodging tax (that visitors pay, not locals). They are planning big changes in JC within the next 10 years....patience, patience.... " JCpatriot wrote on Aug 1, 2008 9:51 PM: " We need to insure the JC City counsil & mayor make the right decisions on our tax money for the citizen & JC future for everyone. Not just making 1 hotel tycoon hussle 43,000,000.00 that alot of money.go visit Louisville,Austin& New orleans riverwalks that what needs to happen with this extra money we have enough hotels. later they can build around or nearby this project. plus there needs to be lodging tax, even for thuis new hotel etc. " JCpatriot wrote on Aug 1, 2008 9:45 PM: " Mac74, yes, a riverwalk project done right will make this & renuve dollars all come together read all my blogs? We need this club (think tank for the city & people) this needs to happen. Inoticed JC revenue income is increasing more by the year. This group needs to happen for JC Citizens & children future etc. " gofish wrote on Aug 1, 2008 1:30 PM: " boxergal wrote "Well, somebody buy that thing before the pregnant prostitutes decide to set up shop there." Well, there is a daycare close by... " boscoe wrote on Aug 1, 2008 9:48 AM: " Quick- get an annexation petition together so you can get some city ordinances to keep the riff-raff out of your neighborhoods. " boxergal wrote on Aug 1, 2008 8:37 AM: " Well, somebody buy that thing before the pregnant prostitutes decide to set up shop there. " newsreader08 wrote on Aug 1, 2008 8:31 AM: " Here's a GOOD NEWS for Jeff city OK OK ARDEN DR people! The Adult store guy just put his house up for sale :D " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 31, 2008 7:28 PM: " Boscoe, Great Idea with zoo with Missouri wild Aminal life, great for kids fun& Mo. education the zoo like that would be a good location & parking in the green space areas that were discussed earlier. The rung nature center coming to life thats a cool riverwalk project. I just the of a good name for the Riverwalk "Lewis & Clark riverwalk trail" just right with the katy trail nearby ? uh " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 31, 2008 7:01 PM: " Boxergal, What were are trying to do will be fresh & new all the time for everyone. If done right the community ctr. will have festibals & functions new & traditional year around indoor/ourdoor parking lot green space areas ,instead of typical 4th july street fair. I don't think this will turn to be stoogy, I think this new proposal project will be awesome new & exciting for you & citizens of JC. I thought of a excellent name for the club: " JCYC: Jefferson city Yahoo Citizen club" it has a ring to it. Go viist other Riverwalk & bldg. project during one of there many festibals, I'll think you'll understand? " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 31, 2008 6:50 PM: " Missjc & everyone, We need all the yahoo club new member to sign this petition to oppose this 84000,000. convention/hotel tax payer waste. after that we will send a new proposal for 43,000,000.00 Riverwalk/convention/community ctr. project with signature,I would like to have all the Yahoo member sign both first then Jc residents much as we can. Missjc I know your setting up the club website,can you set up the petition & new proposal also,let me know, we need to act fast like pioneer said. thanks. when we petition the convention ctr. we all could meet with picket signs & yahoo 1st meeting then ,that would kind of be cool, let me know ? " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 31, 2008 6:42 PM: " Pioneer & Missjc okay i'll call mine at rainbow drive area? if it will do anygood. I live in the apache Flats area 1 mile outside the city limits? That might be a problem? I could probably only sign the petition. I hope we have 30 days to get signatures, go ahead call & say you represent the Yahoo club & people of jefferson city to fight/oppose this 84,000,000.oo wasted convention ctr. project (be professional). a new Proposal a Riverfront project/convention&community ctr. for 43,000,000.00 first,& w/proposal hotel lodging tax revenue,tell them they will get petition with signatures asap. you or Missjc need to do this I will help you both. " pioneers wrote on Jul 31, 2008 1:58 PM: " The city is very close to buying the 2 properties on the corner of W. McCarty and Broadway. The city is going to pay an outrageous amount of money for them because of their desire to put the conference center there. Once they buy those properties, it will be much more difficult to put the brakes on this. Anyone with real misgivings about this conference center may consider calling your city council people (each ward has 2 council people) and letting them know how you feel. Getting some type of petition about the conference center to the council is a good idea. But the clock is ticking. They might buy those properties before anyone can present a petition to the council. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 31, 2008 12:19 PM: " Missjc, go ahead and e-mail me friday,lets get our memberships set-up,I give you my e-mail address & cell # later. We need to vote in the chairperson,asst chair etc. Also set-up our petition/proposal with much signature as possible,then we will e-mail to Jc Mayor & board for review to change the 84000,000.00 plan. Pioneer is right we need to get something in there before they approve hotel tycoons deal, I think we have 30 to petition there convention/hotel proposal? we need to know the deadline? okay email me this friday nite,I'll email back Sat. afternoon okay thanks :) " boxergal wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:26 AM: " Sorry, should have been..if its not boring and stodgey, its not done. And please don't tell me you have street fairs. JC needs something fresh and needs it on a continual basis. Surely there is enough local talent to do something like that. Or maybe not. " boxergal wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:23 AM: " ....which looks like the top of the round in disguise. My husband was raised here and he just can't get over it. So there is a Doubletree, Ok, what is there to do. So we actually took a little drive and he was pointing out what there was to do (in jest). Took all of 5 minutes. And that included the statue by the Capitol. So whats the problem in that town where they just can't seem to grasp onto ideas that are modern like other cities. I am not sure I understand. " boxergal wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:21 AM: " I have a question. And I am asking in fear that I will be attacked for putting your fair city down. Why is everything thats done in JC so stodgey? So old fashioned? I just got notice that the city I grew up in is having a fabulous FREE concert on their Riverwalk. Its being sponsored by Quick Trip. Local famous bands. I don't understand JC at all. If its not something boring and stodgey. These people had fabulous ideas about setting up something in parking lots. Or the north side of the river. But nothing comes to pass. It just fascinates me to no end. We went by the Doubletree... " pioneers wrote on Jul 31, 2008 7:08 AM: " One of the best suggestions I've seen on this forum is that citizens get involved in the convention center project. I have posted trying to clarify what I saw the article state about the public funding aspect. But that does not mean that I am convinced the current plan is the best for the city. I am concerned that the Mayor is driving this project to meet what he believes needs to happen. City citizens need to be giving input and steering this project to what we believe is best for this community. I hope that is discussed in the Yahoo group. I'd be interested in participating in that. And constructive on subject discussions would be great without bickering and name calling. " boscoe wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:52 PM: " If we have to have a petting zoo, can't we highlight the animals that are important to Central Missouri and our heritage? What could be better than a petting zoo full of docile friendly animals like possums, squirrels, ground hogs, moles, a few baby deer, a skunk, maybe some chickens, goats, and a big ol' cow? Also, don't forget the romantic horse-drawn carriage and buggy rides through the downtown, complete with a bottle of Boones Farm in a brown paper bag and some Dixie cups with lids to keep from spilling it. The drive-in movie sounds great, but only if the council grants it a free-drug-use area, where possession and use of any kind of drug is permitted. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:05 PM: " I got sick of palm trees, I had to go to beach & alot I was stationed at schofield Barracks Oahu Hawaii believe it or not living on oahu for 3yrs 8 months you get sick of palm trees & beach it get old too, like going to the bars in jeff city,no where to go or close by? I guess i'm dreamer, this country was built on dreams ? " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:58 PM: " I have to get ready for work S. S. S. and stuff. you guys really need to be serious about this group.Anything can happen, if make it that way? Its what you make out of life is the good things to live good for?Life is all what we make it? good or bad? Food for thought Yahooians. Later on people " boxergal wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:56 PM: " I gotta go. If the Chamber is reading this, I so apologize. If you don't have a sense of humor, then you have nothing. Keep on thinking those Palm Beach thoughts JC. " boxergal wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:53 PM: " JC - as nice as you are, I think you are thinking about Palm Beach. But I could be wrong. Come back to earth. " boxergal wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:52 PM: " Me too. Where is he when you need him?? He could be in our play too. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:52 PM: " Boxergal thanks for compliment,nice guys finish last. I know i was one?lol Good guys help & love one another keep real then finish first God keeps tally of good deeds? I learned something growing older. I hit the big 45 yr mark in two weeks. I know if we get our poop together do a petition for 84,000,000 tax spending for JC,just think of the JC employment get would generate & more tax revenue from tourist/business to make our city/ people better & happy. Food for thought? " spelchek wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:50 PM: " I think Barack Obama could offer some hope on this subject and maybe some change. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:45 PM: " continued- Boxer,then after dinner take riverwalk toward Clam shell free concert playing your kind of music & enjoying a nice summer night with family or romantic dinner date. i think you would like that ? " boxergal wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:41 PM: " You have got to be the nicest person ever. And if this doesn't qualify for a Saturday Night Live Skit, I don't know what does. You are nominated, just for your niceness. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:39 PM: " Boxergal' I think that would be awesome to do. If you ever been to other Riverwalk & lakefront projects its fun & cool. I had a great time at Navy pier & New orleans places. I think if our group is sucessful & would help be a part of this project in the right diection we could sit back & say "what great town or City we live & help made it better for everyone." while i'm eating steak& schrimp at one of the Msp grills looking down at awesome walk watching people have all kinds of fun on weekends.Now that's awesome vision to share! " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:30 PM: " Mac74, I don't know if i should lead this group,I do want everyone to be positive & constructive I don't know if the yahoo club is going to work out. But we do need to petition the city counsel to change this convention ctr. project for the betterment of JC as a whole.Our tax dollars will just make thuis hotel chair richer, nothing for people to enjoy as community.Riverfront community project would revive JC as a whole in many ways. The hotels will build around million Lake & riverfront projects all the time in other capitol city,why not here? " boxergal wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:24 PM: " When this is all over, we will all go up to that fancy steak place and celebrate. What do you say? ha!!!!!! Oh god, I love that little town. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:21 PM: " ~~~Mac - please head this thing before they get a convention center that is used for mullet conventions. please. PS - can you play the washboard for our play??~~~~ Yeah, when "crazy cat lady" gets her drive-in movie theatre I'm sure one of the first 5 movies that play will include a band with a washboard. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:14 PM: " Everyone; I think who joins this club should vote in the Chairperson. run it like the State's personnel club. but rotate the chair positions like every 3-6 months just a suggestion everyone would have a chance to lead it would be fair this way! With No Hate'n ! lol " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:10 PM: " boxergal, I like you but Grow up & quit picking on Missjc,she has a good ideas for the green space area near the truman bldg parking& land areas. A carnival area & small zoo would be great for Families & children. The nature center could do learning events with children school projects etc. all year long kind like small nature ctr. community bldg? Don't tell me you don't like aminals & pets ? BTW they have them at other river & lakefront fun project area like: Chicago,San Anton,New Orleans,Austin Louisville etc. . Asmall exotic aminal zoo would be neat? " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:58 PM: " mac74 a petting zoo like lincoln park zoo is small one would be a good place for children & Nature Ctr events etc. The one at the chicago lakefront been there for atleast 40 yrs. it work with there other lakefront projects? food for thought? " missjc wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:57 PM: " JCpatriot why don't you be the leader of it, you will do a great job. It is obvious that they do not want me and that is cool. I wish you the best of luck and please remember the names and numbers of the people I gave you, they truly sounded like they would be willing to help out. God Bless. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:49 PM: " Continued- Mac & Jc are right were trying to make our town better with this group. we have to lead by example positively no JC bashing just positive but constructive opinions & ideas like the riverwalk example " boxergal wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:49 PM: " Mac - please head this thing before they get a convention center that is used for mullet conventions. please. PS - can you play the washboard for our play?? " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:46 PM: " Boxergal, Easy gal, The way you two carry on,I thought you might want the chairperson to be different. I really think if we get this group going in the right direction for our City. The chairperson should be rotated every 3 months or 6 months,same as other positions. I'm just trying other alternatives to make you & Missjc get along? I had a question mark behind it,sorry but we need to stick together or this is not going workout with bickering amoung ourselves? we will never get anything done right for JC. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:41 PM: " Missjc said, "As for the yahoo group, I don't care who joins as long as they are not JC bashers" Yeah, I guess that counts me out. You called me a basher because I disagreed with your idea to put a petting zoo in the river bottoms. Remember that? Yeah folks, before you join her crusade, just remember, you're signing up for club that will probably be holding picket signs downtown for the implementation of a chainlink fence with a donkey, a chicken and a billygoat in it. On one hand that's funny, on the other it scares me that she might succeed and really drive down the value of my home. " boxergal wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:23 PM: " God how funny. Who will play turkey in the straw?? By the way, I never said no one shouldn't head anything. I am anxious to see if you all meet each other. " pioneers wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:07 PM: " Since Missjc has taken the lead on the yahoo discussion group, she should be the head person. She's taken the initiative to try to set this up, and is motivated to get ideas discussed and moved forward. Thanks for doing this Missjc. I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out. " justaguy wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:32 PM: " I got it! Gramps has a barn, and Mom can sew the costumes--we'll put on a show! " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:17 PM: " I want all you guys in this think tank Club,should MissJc lead it? I don't know? Boxergal would rather have a different leader than her. We need to come together with all the regulars on here,she is setting up the website,we can vote on a new leader president change the name if we have to,I know some of us won't get along,but I don't want to hurt MissJc feelings,it her Idea in the first place? we need to hurry get riverwalk proposal to JC city counsel,I'm sure this hotel Tycoon is reading this blog site. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:01 PM: " I hope Jc mayor is reading this, because the Yahoo clubs riverwalk projects & Ideas blows away this Hotel developer convention ctr. He's trying blind side JC as whole if he has the Convention ctr & hotel connected he avoids paying the lodge tax, which would generate more $$$$$$ from his corp, he's slick trying to pull the blinds on JC people & JC counsel, trying to it before everything is build? Food for thought? " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:54 PM: " Boscoe: You have excellent Ideas for year around projects the Clam shell & convention /community Ctr. could have your Idea's & more :) Just think you wouldn't hate JC anymore you would be too busy going to neat & cool functions on weekends. We need to get the Yahoo Club up & running get new proposal for riverwalk projects brought forward to City counsel & mayor. Missjc has the lead she needs are help you guys. Okay Yahooians! If interested MissJc going to e-mail us The New yahoo club website on Friday. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:41 PM: " Bosoce,Midmo, Pioneer, yes a lodging tax would be great to start more revenue, Jc attractions IE: MSP Museum contects to MSP Indoor/outdoor malls &riverwalkway, restraurants,carnival area,gamebooths etc. greenspace areas IE: convention ctr w/3 tier parking underneath,outdoor parking for state workers ,(Lewis/Clark amptheatre)clam concert ctr.The river walk go from msp almost to MO.River bridge,also another naval/vet museum annex to adrian Island to Katy trail bike rtes. along the riverwalk etc.,later put at the Msp mall (ice rink).Now this would be an excellent project for eveyone to enjoy,plus it would make the 84 million back in 5-10 yrs. Yes,riverwalk something like: Austin TX, San Antonio,New Orleans,Navy pier etc.It would bring Hotels by the dozens to include millions of more visitors. " boscoe wrote on Jul 30, 2008 4:37 PM: " Good deal! Thanks to Pioneers discovering my mistake, we just saved $43 million! How can anyone argue over a mere $43 million? That is only the cost of two or three JC football stadiums. Let's Git-R-Done! " pioneers wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:10 AM: " This is continued from my previous post: Of the $43,000,000 that would come from public funding, the article breaks down annual sources. For example, $1,400,000 annually would come from the lodging tax. That is not a tax on Jefferson City residents but a tax on people who stay in motels in the city. I pay lodging taxes when I stay in motels in other cities, so I have no problem with asking visitors to pay lodging taxes here. There's also Tif financing. That block is generating very little tax revenues now. I don't see a problem with using tax revenues after the project is built to fund it. O'Donohue's on the eastside did that and the city has reaped huge benefits. " pioneers wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:04 AM: " Yesterday Boscoe asked: "So, do you all think Jefferson City taxpayers ought to be spending $84,600,000.00 of our hard-earned money to buy a convention center for some rich developers?" Perhaps someone already answered him, but to make sure good information is out there, I don't see from this article where anyone is proposing that $84,000,000 tax dollars be used for this center. Look back at the article. It talks about the total cost being $84,600,000. It then goes on to say that the public may be asked to fund $43,000,000. Now, $43,000,000 is a lot, but look at the article again and see where it comes from. to be continued " gofish wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:58 AM: " Thanks for the complement JCpatriot, cudos to you as well! " boscoe wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:34 AM: " There are TONS of alternatives that would make our city stronger and more family-oriented than spending $84,600,000.00 of OUR OWN MONEY to benefit convention-goers and a hotel tycoon. Alas, there are many sheeple already cheering the hotel/convention center and the council and mayor are ready to committ our money to the hotel/convention center. Sorry I am not in agreement with this "wonderful idea" and now you can start bashing me as being a Jeff City hater and against progress. Someone please also tell me to leave if I don't like the hotel/convention center idea. It is time for this to be said once again. I know, I am just a Jeff City hater for not agreeing with it. " boscoe wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:29 AM: " Old car shows, frequent local community BBQ contests (yummy!), community rummage sales, square dances, swap meets, pet pasrades, big wheel races, etc. All sorts of local fun things could be held every weekend for little to no money. Maybe a big weekend fun-fest with a few bigger-name bands, like an oldies concert at Labor day or July 4th weekend when the state is off and doesn't need the parking lots during a long weekend. " Mid-Mo wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:24 AM: " Bandshells or stages would be great. I was standing in the parking lot behind Subway during the Salute to America celevration and could hear the music from the beer garden stage echoing through the alleys and streets. I looked up and saw the city lights and the hills across HWY 50 in the distance and I thought to myself "This is awesome." For a split second, it was almost like I was in Downtown Austin or on Beale Street in Memphis. Why can't we have more outdoor shows downtown like that? If we had a greenspace in those Truman Bldg lots just imagine the festivals you could have. Music festivlas, Food Festivals, etc. " boscoe wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:08 AM: " We don't need to develop Adrian's swamp. We have plenty of land available in full view of the expressway and very convenient. All those truman building parking lots sit completely empty 18 hours a day and two full days a week. Let's use this good land for beautification, public gathering, traveling carnivals and shows, local bands, concerts, and performers, farmers markets, and plain community gathering spaces. Please don't try to develop Adrian's swamp where it is hidden from view, hard to access, no parking, and very expensive due to flooding and train tracks. USE OUR EXISTING LAND AROUND TRUMAN BUILDING! There is still enough room to put in a conference center too! " boscoe wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:02 AM: " Set up some public areas with "band shells" complete with PA and electricity. Our little ampitheater at Riverside Park is a JOKE. Why don't we have places where performers and bands can set up for free of charge and perform small and large public concerts and (shudder) outdoor dances? Mid-Mo has a great idea to use the green areas around Truman bldg and Capitol Plaza as a public park / meeting place during evenings and weekends. Build a few "band shells" there. Make the state build a parking garage next to Truman Building. They have 800 million extra this year laying around after cutting the disabled benefits- might as well use some of that money. " boscoe wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:56 AM: " JCPatriot and Mid-Mo have some very good ideas for spending our money on projects that will benefit our entire community and families, and not some hotel tycoon and corporation, as well as only the conference attendees. It is OUR MONEY, so why don't we spend it on things for US? " boscoe wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:53 AM: " Please DO NOT include me in the yahoo group. Jefferson City already has plenty of pollyanna cheering groups that are composed of close-knit little circles of like-minded people who do not want to hear anything bad about their perfect little city or school. I would welcome an open, non-moderated group that values diversity of opinion, background, and thought. Brainstorming new and unique solutions and looking at best practices of other communities would be way more productive. Challengers should be welcome because they can help expose weaknesses and avoid "group-think" to make the overall discussion stronger and more effective. Since MissJC has specifically identified me as someone she does not want in her little elite club, I will not waste my time there. " boxergal wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:51 AM: " I love your thinking MID MO. Why don't you set it up? And yes, why not meet? What the big deal? You have some terrific in put. " Mid-Mo wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:46 AM: " If only it were so easy. Trust me, if I had a lot of money, I'd already be building it. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:29 AM: " once all the concrete in place build pier to Adrian Island like navy pier. It simple but $$$$$$ in concrete to control flood areas, it could be done with 84 mil easy. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:27 AM: " Midmo, you right on build it from Msp have the expensive building & items IE Carnival mall etc on high ground build convention ctr with 3 car garage below the building & state parking garage next it like you said. I tyhink we should develop it we have the right idea & seen other projects.Your hired for the yahoo club.lol " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:22 AM: " New Orleans has trian track & service road, they bridged over to the riverwalk. I like New Oleans the best riverwalk/mall & convention ctr. I took my honeymoon cruise out of there in 2001 it was awesome.I hopr katrina did'nt ruin it. There was alot of concrete, it might of damaged the carnival & mall inside ? " Mid-Mo wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:19 AM: " Navy Pier is great, never been to New Orleans, just drove through the outskirts. I just don't know if it'd be possible to do that on THIS riverfront. One suggestion: build a good-sized garage for the State Workers right across the street from Capitol Plaza. Free up all of that space they use for parking and turn it into green space, extend it to the riverfront. I realize that having something like St. Louis' Landing would be difficult because of the flood-plain, so instead, build the restaurant, bar & grill, shop area in the MSP area where it would be up out of the flood zone. Have a greenway to the bottom with a riverwalk that wouldn't be affected when it floods. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:10 AM: " Midmo, Thank God somebody as experienced awesome river walks &. I like New Orleans walk & chicago Navy peir walk, thanks somebody understand me. I think it would make us & town great " Mid-Mo wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:05 AM: " I love the idea of riverfront development. Some of my favorite places to visit are river towns with riverfront development like Austin, San Antonio, Louisville, and St. Charles to name a few. Here is my question. How do you suggest it is built here? All the towns mentioned with riverwalks, etc, don't have to worry about trains running by constantly. The train tracks are a major obstacle for riverfront development. Also, I like this idea of a Yahoo group too, but why can't we just get started? It takes like 5 minutes to set up a Yahoo group. I agree, we would need to meet in reality, not just in webspace. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:43 AM: " also Mac1974 would be asset to the yahoo club, Bryon & boscoe I don't know you need to ask them? " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:32 AM: " MissJc, I think out of most the guys in here, I'm probably the most civil,I'am angel compared to Bryon & boscoe no offense to you guys.Also Iam sorry if i hurt your feelings about the pregnant/prostitute article, that situation is a mess anyhow. Also I hope can meet in the new convention ctr somedays and take our families along a riverwalk & carnival. i do like the name Yahoo club, maybe "JC yahoo club" so it wont get mixed with yahoo internet service " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:16 AM: " Rojo, yes i agree, but why does a hotel tycoon have to build the Convention ctr. adjacent to the hotel. Go to other cities convention ctr. are seperate & nearby. I still think a riverwalk & convention ctr would be better for JC people first, then let the Hotel people build nearby its like that in New Orleans, San antonio, there citizens & revenue is great, everyones happy. Do you see the whole picture? Plus 84 million is alot for two Buildings. I think the taxpayers will enjoy something more than a convention/hotel ctr.Hotel management controlled? I think overall we need to copy San Antonios riverwalk project. "Build the riverwalk & convention ctr. they will come!" " missjc wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:34 AM: " JCpatriot thank you, and I do not come in here to be down on people but when you have a few that do nothing but put JC down I just can't help but defend this town. As for the yahoo group, I don't care who joins as long as they are not JC bashers, this group will be for people who love JC and who truly want to see it improve..if people disagree with ideas then that is fine as long as they bring ideas to the table and the first time someone is called a redneck or backwards then we might as well keep our conversations in here because when it turns to name calling ideas go no where. " rojo wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:45 PM: " A convention center can do much to bring dollars to Jefferson City if we look at events that have alreadhy proven to be huge draws. Soccer, various baseball tournaments (slow-pitch, fast-pitch,etc.) pack every hotel every summer. The firefighters' school brings in hundreds each spring. If you've not had the experience of trying to find a hotel room during these events, you're missing the picture. Lincoln University Homecoming is another gigantic event that would be a "natural" for the new center. This is a great idea ! " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:07 PM: " Gofish & Boxergal Your Both tough ones to debate, your fighters, I like that in both of you? Boxergal I forgot to mention you, you would be great inthe Yahoo group also. We all debate so much, i don't know if we ever will finish a Issue? lol " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:52 PM: " MiSSJC, I also would like to be in your group, I think my Ideas & experience being overseas & living in other place small & big would help give input to make our group positive & best interest for our small growing city. I see you in a different light for you volunteering to take on this big task/ group. I would be happy to help you give you the best positive input that i learn & know:) also some of the heated blogs we all had IE: Byron, boscoe, Mac, go fish, LMB, & others.We all have different opinions, I'm not trying to debate personally, I think we all our unique & care about JC we made a bond of friendship. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:33 PM: " Then let the small hotels & restraunt people build on the vacant lots, which they are doing now anyhow.I think a 25 million project riverwalk/convention without the hotel people getting involved would be more suttle & best for the people of JC. Something we all could enjoy together with our tax money being put to use, build revenue for the future benefit of JC,not a hotel tycoon coming in to get richer at our expense? I think a riverwalk /convention ctr.(like San Antonio Tx) would be perfect for JC at this time.This city is going to grow I think we should do it in steps. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:19 PM: " missJc, I understand where your coming from,I lived in a couple Big city development areas before. I also lived in small countyseat town that grew when i left for military service. Yes, myself & family feel safe here with small city atomsphere like you feel. I think this town is ready to grow alittle,I think a giant hotel/convention Ctr. will bring partiers/tourist more bars for them on the there convention weekends. Thats why I suggested a riverwalk/piers with small carnival conventional community ctr. for all Jc citians to enjoy. this would be a great place for all our parades to end there with festibals & fun rides for our children & grown up children lol to enjoy. -continued- " missjc wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:55 PM: " boscoe yes I do feel a convention center would bring in money for this town, I think it is a good idea and I am supporting it. You feel it is a bad idea and that is, that is your right but what are your ideas and what do you feel would improve Jefferson City? " boscoe wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:22 PM: " So, do you all think Jefferson City taxpayers ought to be spending $84,600,000.00 of our hard-earned money to buy a convention center for some rich developers? Could this money be better used elsewhere in our town (or in your pockets)? $84,600,000.00 is one hell of a lot of money. At $15 an hour, it will take us 564,000 hours of work to pay that bill, which is the same as one person working over 271 years to pay off this debt. We better speak up loudly before the city council and the mayor hand us the payment book for this boondoggle. " missjc wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:13 PM: " JC over Columbia. If you like the big city with lots of things to do then that is great but some of us do not and some of us do not want to see Jeff City change into a Columbia or STL and guess what if it does, which I do not see that happening because too many of us like JC the way it is then I will be finding a new town to live in and it is nothing against this town it is just I like a smaller town. " missjc wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:09 PM: " And I agree with you 100%, I just don't get why people come in here say how horrible it is and how we have nothing to do yet they do nothing about it and they do not go to a place they do like, I am guilty of telling people to leave if they do not like it because to me that is just plain common since, I didn't care for Columbia much after I had my family so guess what, I moved to JC which is smaller and less crime, I didn't look down on Columbia or the people I just wanted a safer place for my family to live, I still go to Columbia every now and then but I prefer " missjc wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:08 PM: " Thank you lovemyboys and to be honest it really wasn't that much work, just a few phone calls. Which is why I don't understand why people say no one will listen to them!! " lovemyboys wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:18 PM: " I like going to St. Louis or KC occasionally, but I wouldn't want to live there..that's just my perogative..it doesn't mean they aren't "welcoming"...? The smaller the town and the more everyone knows everyone are the towns that are "unwelcoming"...Jeff City is hardly that. I don't know everyone that lives here and I don't want to. But, I'm nice to everyone I meet and I don't care if they live here or New Bloomfield or California. Who cares? Sure, there are rude people here, crime here, and idiotic governing bodies...but guess what? They're everywhere! In all the little towns around here...just ask the folks who live there. " lovemyboys wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:12 PM: " I agree that Jeff City could/should offer more, but it's not like Holts Summit or Linn or any other little towns offer anything either. When I go to a small town, I don't expect "big city" museums, etc... If you want small town, then you have to live in one..some people like that, some don't. Some like big cities, some like medium sized cities. Jeff City is large enough to offer shopping and basic entertainment without the big city crime. Sure, there is crime...that's everywhere. Linn has an unsolved murder crime for many years. There are drug users everywhere (big cities and small towns)...you're not going to find Utopia so you have to deal with good and bad. " lovemyboys wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:07 PM: " MissJC -- you've done a lot of hard work and we all appreciate it...thank you for trying to help out! I'd be willing to join your group as well as I have some ideas for Jeff City too. Like I've said in other forums...people need to quit griping and do something or at least make the effort. I have never told anyone to "move"...that's getting as old as the casino issue. Who needs a "welcome wagon" ... there's 40,000 people in this town..if 2 new people move in, we're probably not going to notice. It doesn't mean we don't care, it's just not practical... " boscoe wrote on Jul 28, 2008 4:56 PM: " Good job, MissJC! I hope Mark is sincere about wanting more participation. This would be great! " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 28, 2008 3:27 PM: " Sorry Gofish & everyone i put this on the wrong blog: It should be on the Pregnant women one. ops! " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 28, 2008 3:24 PM: " Gofish, I was using those two talk show host as a example to give a different point of view than mine.Your right instead of the TV people; Maybe you should give her your point of view if Prostitution is noble & respectable for a pregnant women or one doing porno for that fact. SO EXCUSE ME... " gofish wrote on Jul 28, 2008 12:53 PM: " Thank you Missjc for your follow through and for getting the additional info/phone#, well done! " missjc wrote on Jul 28, 2008 12:20 PM: " He also told me he reads these forums all of the time so they do hear us and for those of you who think Jefferson City is this horrible city this is a way to get involved to help change it!!! I was not able to get the yahoo group up yet but I will try this week and have the ones who wish to get involve to email me and I will give you the link. " missjc wrote on Jul 28, 2008 12:17 PM: " He also told me about a group that gets together the 1st Thursday of each month and they discuss either concerns or suggestions about Cole County and it is called Cole County Communities and these meetings are held at the Chamber of Commerce building in Jefferson City, if you want to get an invite you can call (573)634-3616 ext 111 and they can put you on the list for an invite. " missjc wrote on Jul 28, 2008 12:15 PM: " Just an FYI, I just got a phone call from Mark Mehmert from the Chamber of Commerce and we talked a lot about how to get involved with the community and he was a big help, he said I could give out his number so if anyone has any questions to please feel free to give him a call. His number is 638-3585. " boscoe wrote on Jul 26, 2008 10:38 AM: " Thanks. Many folks around here "escape" from the everyday grind by going to the bars on the weekends. Not always a whole lot to do around here but drink. " online_editor wrote on Jul 26, 2008 9:24 AM: " It's called Escape, as in arts, entertainment and leisure provide an escape from your work or regular routine. " boscoe wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:03 PM: " CityGuy wrote on Jul 25, 2008 5:33 PM: " ODF: Correction. The entertainment thing is in Thurday's paper. It's called Escape. " Ha! Wonder why they call it "Escape"? (Like to have fun, you need to escape JC?) " CityGuy wrote on Jul 25, 2008 5:33 PM: " ODF: Correction. The entertainment thing is in Thurday's paper. It's called Escape. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 25, 2008 5:15 PM: " MissJC & Boscoe are right, A Ctr. like Chicago Navy Pier & New Orleans Riverwalks,museums,& community Ctr. are excellent examples to make this a great city for the people of JC & tourists. Just think of the revenue it would bring. The hotel chains will volunteer to build. This project & the way its develop is a financial mistake. They need to look at the Chicago lakefront,New Orleans riverwalk & other Cities project developments that are sucessful for the community & tourism. " CityGuy wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:49 AM: " ODF: I should have been more specific. I usuually go the the Entertainment section of the paper. It's in the Friday's paper I believe. Usually most of the events are listed there. " boxergal wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:41 AM: " This really isn't hard. Form a group, put your ideas out there and call your councilmember. They will either listen or not. Most councilmembers anywhere are willing to listen and a lot actually respond. I have had great luck in my county with mine. Good luck to you all. " boxergal wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:38 AM: " Thats a really nice gesture, MissJC. Really nice. (yahoo group) " gofish wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:33 AM: " missjc wrote "...maybe they (NT) could research and find out who we need to talk to..." I have suggested the NT do some investigative reporting on other forums/articles and that has yet to happen, so don't hold your breath. It appears as though the format of the paper is more news reporting rather than researched based reporting, and that is something that would be controlled by the owners. " ODF wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:29 AM: " missjc - I may have misunderstood his post, but I highly doubt it. If you'll look at some of his responses to my posts on other stories you'd understand my reaction to his comments. I'll try and remember to look for the yahoo group after the weekend. " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:26 AM: " I will post the yahoo group link once I have it set up, we can't seem to stay on track in this forum so I think we should try another way. Have a good day all. " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:25 AM: " good grief this is so exausting, trying to have a civil conversation trying to find ways to make our city better and it always goes back to people mis understanding posts, I think Cityguy was just trying to explain that some of the events are in the paper, not sure he/she meant it in a bad way. I am going to try to start a yahoo group on this subject, going to try to get people who acutally want to better this town to come in and talk about ideas and figure out a way to get those ideas out to the people who listen. . " ODF wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:12 AM: " City guy - Please...you have no clue. I do read the paper...some events are listed....some are stuck back in the classified section and some are never mentioned in a readily accesible place or format. If I have to SEARCH for the information,then there's a good chance I couldn't give 2 rat's about attending. It's funny that other towns can make promote events in a user/tourist friendly environment and format. If people wanted folks to come they would advertise better. But please, keep defending the ineptness of the city leaders...it's quite clear you have their same mindset. I'm done with this one.... " CityGuy wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:04 AM: " ODF: You can read the paper. It has a wealth of information in it about up-coming local events. Most of the event staff put in articles or ads telling about the events. Also the local radio stations regularly have peolpe talking about up-coming events. " CityGuy wrote on Jul 25, 2008 10:59 AM: " MissJC: You've already mentioned the Chamber and The Convention & Visitor's Bureau. There is also the Jaycees. Those are good starting places and the only ones I can think of that are groups that deal with general issues of the city and area. I'm sure I'm leaving some out. There are many other organizations that deal with specific areas of the city. There is Old Munichburg, Eastside & Westside Business Association, Downtown Business Association, the Eastside Neighborhood Development Association and the Historic City of Jefferson. I'm sure I'm missing some of these also. Being active in one of those groups could lead to being asked to be on city commissions and ad hoc committees. " ODF wrote on Jul 25, 2008 10:55 AM: " Exactly missjc...recurring events that everyone knows about and knows when they are, is an excellent start. I know the ham & turkey festival in California is always the 3rd Saturday of September. I know the lake car show is usually the first weekend in May (or thereabouts). I know the KC Ren. Fest runs weekends Labor Day through Columbus Day. Arts Fest in Springfield is usually the first weekend in May. Some type of riverfest/rendevous would be ideal for JC. But the in-charge folks also need to advertise and promote all events...I get so tired of seeing something on the news AFTER it happened. " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 10:31 AM: " unreconstructed you just have to ignore some of these people as hard as that may be sometimes there are those who always seem to bring the forum down. But back on the subject, does anyone know of any groups that do get together to come up with ideas, it would be fun to start one if we don't, we could start a group that comes together either online or in person to talk about what ideas we have and to talk about what is currently going on and then we could bring those ideas to the table and see what we can get accomplished, one person presenting an idea may not be as effective as a group, what do you all think? " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 25, 2008 10:11 AM: " Breeding, now that's a good one. You speak of things that you contradict on a regular basis. But as has been mentioned here, you have that right. I won't engage with you past this statement, I just fail to see why things have to always be made into a negative, when the direction of the forum was going positive. I'll say it again, ugh.... sigh... have a good weekend. " boxergal wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:55 AM: " In other words, some of us had manners. By the way, do they have a charm school here? (kidding) " boxergal wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:53 AM: " or who has what. It didn't matter. I actually was raised in an elite section of the city I was from. No one told anyone to move, or thought they were better than others or thought that people with certain names hung the moon. So if people perceive you all to be backwards, it could be in your actions. Just a small suggestion, its called being gracious. One thing for sure, I never saw a welcome wagon attitude here. Hopefully things will change. " boxergal wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:51 AM: " May I make a suggestion? If you all are going to form a committee, please stop and think before you tell people to move when they make suggestions. Its called being gracious. When I moved here it was complete culture shock. Like that wasn't bad enough I had to contend with this very statement when I would say anything about JC not having something. Its rude. And backwards and its small town thinking. Not everyone is used to being raised in a community where a name means the world to someone. Thats all I saw here. Some of us were raised to be gracious and understanding. To not care who is who or who has.... " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:31 AM: " Maybe the New Tribune could do an article on this, maybe they could research and find out who we need to talk to to get our ideas out to people who will listen. I know a lot of people who would love to suggest thing but no one is sure who to contact, and if Jefferson City does not have someone to talk to then I think they should consider getting one. " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:28 AM: " Mr. Brown I would love to be able to just sit down with the Chamber and discuss different ideas that might make Jefferson City a more appealing place to visit, I would love to see events that come back every year, I would love to see a drive in movie theater again we have the perfect spots across the river for this and it would draw so many people..I have been to the drive in around Moberly with my kids and they loved it, we go two or three times a summer and if one was closer we could made it a weekly thing. " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:12 AM: " ODF - always put your son first, way to go on being a great parent! " boxergal wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:12 AM: " I would love to get involved with a joint effort of combining the north side and JC. Working together to develop that north side for the good of Cole and Callaway. But, heck our city council can't even make a decision on a light fixture so I don't know how they would achieve this. I love the north side and see so much potential in it. " ODF wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:11 AM: " Mid-Mo - That'd be great if I was single. However, I am a single parent with a full time career. Spending time with my son and raising him right is my priority right now. It's about priorities...and JC's entertainment void is not my priority .... or even my job. I have voiced my opinion to city leaders from time to time. I was on a group that tried to get the disc golf course at Binder years before they finally decided it was a good idea. I have been involved and I will be in the future...right now I have other priorities. Like a weekend trip with him to SW Missouri. " online_editor wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:02 AM: " I'm curious. What would each of you like to get involved with? If you could pick a political, social or community cause that matches your interests, what would it be? (Or what are you already involved with?) Is there any group in your area that comes close to being a match for you? Is there something you feel they should be doing that they're not that you'd like to help with? " boxergal wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:51 AM: " Rick - I guess anyway you cut it, its taxpayer funded, whether state or federal. Thanks. " Mid-Mo wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:36 AM: " boscoe wrote on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM: "Treat everyone with respect and appreciation..." This is the problem, right here. You say to treat everyone with respect and appreciation, yet you are unrelentless in your disrespect of this city, its leaders and anyone who presents an idea for change that you don't agree with. ODF wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:17 AM: "missjc - Maybe that is because those people feel JC has nothing to offer them in the way of entertainment, jobs, etc..." Get some investors together, go to the bank, get the money you need to create whatever form of business you want. You have ideas, there is obviously an opportunity here, BUILD IT! " ODF wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:34 AM: " unrecon - I have seen it carry over...however there's also a lot of articles about things going on JC that folks don't think should be priorities. I think that's why you see a lot more of the disgruntled citizen speak. missjc - I agree! I remeber rushing home to get cleaned up only to come back to JC for the evening/night. That's been years ago. Eldon does/did do a hot air balloon festival...JC could do something like that. There are many, many other ideas that JC could do for family entertainment if they would put the effort inot things like that instead of things like a convention center. " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:30 AM: " she said if they do not then she thinks it would be a great idea to have something like that so they are going to look into it and once I know something I will let you all know. I also spoke to Steve at the Convention & Visitors Bureau and he said if I couldn't find someone to talk to at the Chamber then to call him back and we could sit down and talk about what ideas I had and he would bring them up at his next meeting. Making calls can help! " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:28 AM: " ODF I do not disagree with you, NO we do not have much to do here I know that and I would love to see things come to Jefferson City that families can do but going on a public forum and calling people rednecks and backwards and putting down the city does not bring people in, what does bring people in is taking action, makeing calls. I made some calls this morning and I called someone at the Jefferson City Area Chamber of Commerce, I asked her if they had an open forum or meetings where people can bring ideas to the table and she is going to check on it for me.. " boxergal wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:27 AM: " Nevermind - I see DOT. I could have sworn there was money that was set up for this and there for the taking. The person that weighed in on this project was saying it was there and might as well be utilized. Maybe that person can give more insight. I like the idea, its probably the only thing I have gotten excited over in years. Thanks again. " boxergal wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:24 AM: " Thanks for clarifying. I could have sworn that the website said some of the money would come from a grant or some such thing. Are we talking state funds or city?? " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:22 AM: " ODF - while I will agree with you about freedom of speech, and our rights to express our opinions, there is such a thing also as "beating a dead horse". I think that may be where missjc is coming from, it carries over to multiple forums. But... you are right... this is still America... my wife says I complain too much too! :) " online_editor wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:17 AM: " boxer: Just FYI, about $300,000 of the $6 million bicycle/pedestrian bridge across the Missouri River is coming from private donations. The rest will be taxpayer financed. See Campaign nearing funding goal for pedestrian/bike bridge --Rick Brown, online editor, News Tribune " ODF wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:17 AM: " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 7:50 AM: " My frustration does not come from just this forum alone it comes from all of the other forums that have been about JC where people put it down every time" missjc - Maybe that is because those people feel JC has nothing to offer them in the way of entertainment, jobs, etc. It's called an "image" or "reputation" and JC does not have a good one, and deservedly so, IMO. There is little family entertainemnt in this town, very little that comes to town and when it does it is poorly advertised and promoted. I cannot remember the last time I came to JC to do something fun. I miss those days. " ODF wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:12 AM: " Preach on boscoe, preach on.... :) I would disagree with you...but I can't find anything in your posts I disagree with. I find it hilarious that people come on a comment board and complain about people making comments...so what if they are critical or even negative. Is this not America? Are we not entitled to voice our opinion, even if it disagrees with someone? " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:02 AM: " By the way, I have heard of an event coming to Jeff. City next Spring. In May of next year, a large Civil War re-enactment will be out at Binder Park, infantry, cavalry with horses, camps with demonstrations, the whole ball of works. This is at least a positve, don't you think? " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:01 AM: " To a somewhat fair degree, I have to agree with MissJC. Boscoe, you and a few others present good ideas and you are to be commended for that, thank you. You "think" before you comment rather than just run JC down. Again, I certainly don't have all the answers, sure wish I did. Somewhere in all of this there is a "happy medium", a warm and fuzzy place where we could all be please with this city. Growth, jobs, events, etc., but yet still remain not too large, or risk losing the "charm" that can come with a "not so big" Capital City. " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 7:58 AM: " If you want positive change then go to the capital, write letters, make phone calls, get on the committees that make these decisions and yes every day people can make a difference here in Jeff they have public meetings all of the time go to the website and tell them your ideas!! www Jeffcitymo org is the site, if you love this town and if you want to see better for it then take action! " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 7:50 AM: " yes this town does need something but it is not a horrible city and we are not just a bunch of backwards rednecks as some make us out to be. My frustration does not come from just this forum alone it comes from all of the other forums that have been about JC where people put it down every time, it truly gets old and half of the people that complain about how they do not listen have not even tried to get thier ideas out so how can they listen if you do not tell them? " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 7:45 AM: " I am all for a river walk or museums or activities for the FAMILY to do like having a Grants Farm type attraction or an IMAX theater, Concert Venues for big names to come in. North Jefferson City is FULL of land that can be used to house so many attractions. No the convention center will not bring in $20/hour jobs but people who are living on welfare who need a job would not be able to get those $20/hour job anyway. No matter what the idea is brought to the table some always have a problem with it and I am sorry but that gets to me. " missjc wrote on Jul 25, 2008 7:36 AM: " boscoe I agree with you in some ways, I would love for JC to be known for all of it's attractions and right now we don't have many that is true but you have to start some place and yes all of the negative comments do get to me because it happens on EVERY forum this new paper has about plans for JC...in past forums we have been called rednecks and backwards and we are made out to be stupid and that is what gets to me, if we are nothing but a bunch of rednecks then why would anyone want to stay hear? " boscoe wrote on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM: " If I know the same things that you know, I will probably believe the same things you believe, and I will probably do the same things you do. Open up our local government. Let everyone have input. Trust citizens and listen to them. Treat everyone with respect and appreciation, even the ones who don't have the "right" last name or who went to the wrong high school or took the wrong classes, or who live on the wrong side of town, or who have the wrong skin color. " boscoe wrote on Jul 24, 2008 11:06 PM: " If we didn't love our city and believe in it, none of us would waste our time commenting here. I don't diss you and your opinions, so please don't diss mine. I see LOADS of positive suggestions put forth here. I see LOADS of alternatives suggested. Please open your mind a bit and maybe you might even learn something. I learn something everyday reading these posts. I have been wrong about things too. Often, if I have the whole story, it makes more sense to me. However, if the story is hidden or covered up, I can only assume the worst, because why would anyone hide anything if it were good? " boscoe wrote on Jul 24, 2008 11:02 PM: " Instead of getting all defensive about negative comments, you should be thanking these people for taking the time to give feedback and ideas and their thoughts. Most folks who are dissatisfied just quietly leave or stop trying to contribute. The only thing worse than negative comments are apathetic people who don't care about their hometown and don't try to improve things or worse- try to sabatage the organization. Smart organizations appreciate even negative comments and use these to make changes to turn the negative energy into postitive energy. Ask any retail customer service or organizational quality expert and they will tell you the same thing. " boscoe wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:54 PM: " Public servants should try to think outside their own selves and their circle of buddies when proposing tax increases or investments to our city. Seems many things that city hall does and continues to do are just done to continue lining the pockets of buddies with taxpayer money, despite lack of accomplishment or poor quality of services provided for our hard-earned money. City Hall and tax dollars should serve ALL CITIZENS, not just the members of the elite club. Input needs to be sought and accepted from ALL CITIZENS. " boscoe wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:50 PM: " Many of us have lived in other cities and have come back to our hometown. We know there are good and bad things about every city, but we also see that Jefferson City could be so much better if the riff between the elite and the common citizen could be bridged. There are a hell of a lot of smart people in this town with a variety of life experiences. These people are a huge untapped resource who could all help the city improve, but many of them are tired of trying. Jefferson City deserves better than the "Boss Hogg" mentality of city hall. " boscoe wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:47 PM: " CityGuy, Folks are tired of not having representation for the way the city spends our tax dollars. Many times huge ammounts of money are committed and spent and no one finds out about these secret deals until they have already been done. Many of us have volunteered and talked to city administrators, our councilpersons, and volunteered to serve on committees, etc. and have been pushed away. Obviously there is room for improvement between city hall and many citizens. Just calling people "complainers" is about as dumb as telling them to move away. Some of us cannot help that we were not born with a certain name or in a house on SchellRidge years ago. " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:26 PM: " Here is something with a familiar ring to it..."they are low paying service industry jobs". Sound familiar? Too bad you all can't vote on this. I am not really down on anything but I think things are being done a bit backwards here. Get the riverfront projects done first and see how much tourism you get off of them. And the bike lane project isn't from taxpayer monies, I believe its from private donations and some gov't money that was there for the taking, thats all. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 24, 2008 8:00 PM: " ~~~~Boxergal your down on a convention center that could bring a lot of jobs to our town~~~~~ What happened in America? Why would any person in the United States think a hotel would bring a lot of "good jobs" to this city? Is this a conflict of perspective? Am I crazy for thinking a good job would pay at least $20.00/hr. as a starting salary? A position as a hotel maid, front desk clerk, parking lot attendant, etc. would pay maybe $7.00/hr. tops. Sue, are you with me? " sue2008 wrote on Jul 24, 2008 7:29 PM: " I am almost afraid to get in the middle of this conversation but I must say, Boxergal your down on a convention center that could bring a lot of jobs to our town but you support a bridge for people to walk on? " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 24, 2008 6:08 PM: " Buffy, Thank you, We finally agreed on something,I can be very poistive in my comments, it all depends on the negative environment coming back at me. Its called "debating". My glass is always half full when i debate, atleast i tried to stick to the facts,keep it simple positively :) " CityGuy wrote on Jul 24, 2008 5:13 PM: " Boxer: I think we can work together on that. Another good idea to make the area better for those of us that live here and for those that visit us. " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:37 PM: " VERY GOOD POINT City guy. Good. So, why not work together on ideas?? One of your biggest assets is sitting on the north side of the river. I would love to see that bicycle lane under the bridge come to pass. " CityGuy wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:34 PM: " ODF: You are skirting the issue. Complaining doesn't make Jeff City better. Action does. " gofish wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:31 PM: " missjc wrote "I have just come to the conclusion that some people are never happy and some people like to complain and there is nothing anyone can do too change that." Also jealous of our ability to refute her morals with facts. " CityGuy wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:31 PM: " If it weren't for Jeff City there would be no bedroom communities. " gofish wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:30 PM: " boxergal wrote "Maybe you know, when is the next car show in JC?" Cruisen for MDA is the last Saturday of every month through October, next one is this coming Saturday on High Street, 5-7pm give or take. " gofish wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:28 PM: " Mid-Mo wrote "I can see it now. Boscoe, ODF, gofish, etc. sitting around the table patting each other on the back, each taking turns to see who can spew the most sarcastic diatribe of the day. There's an espn-like ticker at the bottom of the screen displaying one-sided research and statistical information along with police reports. Instant Classic!!!" You're just jealous that you don't belong to our club! " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:21 PM: " Actually, if it weren't for spending that comes from the bedroom communities, JC would be in worse shape than it is in. Comprendo?? " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:18 PM: " Good god, is this rocket science? Hey pay me back the money I put into that lovely school there and I will go silently into the night. Lesson 1.....bedroom communities support JC, people spend there. Lesson 2 - some people pay on the school. Lesson 3. The city of Jefferson is the seat of state government, that of which all taxpayers pay for most of the buildings in the lovely little town. Does any of this ring a bell? " MISSJC wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:05 PM: " And your right you do have the right to free speach so post away! :-) " MISSJC wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:04 PM: " If you moved then why do you care what Jefferson City does? Funny how a few of the people who complain the most do not even live here. Your not annoying me, just makes me wonder why people who do not even live in Jeff care so much about what this town does, it just seems like a waste of time to me. I can't imagine going to Columbia's news paper website and telling them what they should and should not do just does not make since to me. " ODF wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:53 PM: " missjc - I did....I moved out of town! However, that does not mean I still do not have the right to free speech, even if it annoys you!! LOL!! " missjc wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:43 PM: " ODF wrote: "If you (or other city leaders) don't like the comments maybe they should do something different" And if you do not like the way our town is then maybe you should do something different. " ODF wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:41 PM: " I'm tired of people complaining about people's comments made on a COMMENT BOARD. If we don't like JC we should move...if you don't like reading comments then don't. It's not a difficult concept! LOL! " ODF wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:40 PM: " Cityguy - message boards are for ALL comments, pro and con. This isn't the positive news only comment board. If you (or other city leaders) don't like the comments maybe they should do something different. They can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect different outcomes/responses. People are tired of the same ole, same ole. " CityGuy wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:31 PM: " ODF: There are several things in the works that will develop the river front. We just need people to stop looking for something to complain about on message boards and start actually getting involved with the planning and development of these things. There is power in numbers. " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:16 PM: " Yea, know what you mean. I get tired of people griping about morality issues all of the time too. Hey, do you know when the next car show is?? " missjc wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:12 PM: " It also gets old to see the same people complain about every idea they come up with! " ODF wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:00 PM: " I agree unrecon - public office is a thankless job. However, what is sad is that so many seem to get into it for their own personal aspirations rather than for the betterment of their community. Mid-Mo - It just gets old seeing city leaders come up with hare-brained ideas like a convention cener, instead of things that would really appeal to families and tourits....the river/boardwalk is an excellent example that someone suggested. " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 2:51 PM: " OH me too, me too. Especially the big red ones. Reminds me of my old neighbors. And yes, who in the world would want to run for office. " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 24, 2008 2:32 PM: " Mid-Mo wrote: "BTW, it doesn't matter what I do, I'm not the one criticizing and complaining about nearly every idea or decision the city and it's leaders make. " Might have got you on that one ODF... :0) One thing I think that needs to be brought up is the lack of "leadership" at all levels of government. It is all too often a thankless job, particularly at local levels of government. It's really hard to get quality people to run for these positions. I'm not standing up for any one, just making a point. And I like the car and truck shows! " Mid-Mo wrote on Jul 24, 2008 2:11 PM: " I don't know you. Sorry for the generalization. Maybe you actually do try to change things. But after reading some of your comments, it seems like you won't even give anybody a chance. I'm not from Jefferson City, I currently live here. I'm not a city leader and I'm not related to any of the leaders. I'm not, nor have I ever thought I was on a pedestal. I've lived in big cities and very small towns and I can say that this is a nice place to be for many reasons. There's always room for improvement. BTW, it doesn't matter what I do, I'm not the one criticizing and complaining about nearly every idea or decision the city and it's leaders make. " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 2:01 PM: " Maybe you know, when is the next car show in JC? I love those big trucks with the jacked up tires. " missjc wrote on Jul 24, 2008 1:50 PM: " Mid-Mo some people are never happy, they stay in a place they do not like and they complain the entire time it makes no since I know, but what can you do? If you suggest going to another city that they do like then they complain about that, I have just come to the conclusion that some people are never happy and some people like to complain and there is nothing anyone can do too change that. This is a great townyes it is small and no we do not have huge water parks or casino boats or lots of clubs and city lights but that is the way we like it and some people just can not accept that for some reason. " ODF wrote on Jul 24, 2008 1:45 PM: " Mid-Mo - Do you know me? Do you know how many council meetings I've attended? Do you know what suggestions, if any, I've passed along to city leaders? Didn't think so .... you sitting there criticizing us is just classic and typical of JC old school style .... typical of the type of look-at-me-on-my-pedestal attiude that folks like myself, and others are sick of from city "leaders". What have YOU done for your "great" little city? " Mid-Mo wrote on Jul 24, 2008 1:09 PM: " So many people with all of the answers to our problems, yet none of them will do anything about it except post anonymously on an internet message board. All of the people bashing Jefferson City, it's city council and the mayor should collaborate on a book. Better yet, you should have a round-table show on a local station. Kind of like "The View." I can see it now. Boscoe, ODF, gofish, etc. sitting around the table patting each other on the back, each taking turns to see who can spew the most sarcastic diatribe of the day. There's an espn-like ticker at the bottom of the screen displaying one-sided research and statistical information along with police reports. Instant Classic!!! " gofish wrote on Jul 24, 2008 12:59 PM: " Hey there's a great idea, let all the politicians that rent apartment's in JC during the session rent suites at the convention center hotel and put a bar in the hotel to keep the drunk legislators off the streets! " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:29 AM: " Yep, politicians. So the question is this....is it for them? Like everything else in JC, I am afraid its geared towards the politicians. And ODF - my husband grew up there, graduated from school there and just sits and shakes his head in amazement. " hlbwoman wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:18 AM: " A couple more points: A convention center is only as good as its sales staff. True, though, they have to have something to sell besides meeting rooms and hotel rooms. Also, someone commented on filling hotel rooms on weekends. Unless you are in a huge tourist market (like Orlando or Vegas), a hotel doesn't make their money off the weekends. They make it off the weekday business meetings and, I'm sure in JC's case, politicians and those who do business with them. " ODF wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:00 AM: " A jail will "anchor" the downtown area? Wow...that is just priceless!! LOL!! Of course, given the rise in crime, maybe it's an accurate statement. D'OH!! LOL!! " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 9:30 AM: " Newsflash - "anchoring" would be bringing in a convention center, a multipurpose center and another building such as a stadium (way too big a thought for JC). Thats anchoring. One feeds off of the other. People use the hotels to attend a concert or some other event. Thats anchoring. There is nothing in JC to tie the convention center into. NOTHING. " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 8:53 AM: " Does it make JC tired just thinking of stuff to construct? My husband just got the biggest laugh out of some woman on TV. I didn't see her. She said the new jail would "anchor" the downtown area. Please. I won't even begin to tell you what he said. I hate to tell you all but I think the bubble haired, be hived, do gooders of JC think that a jail is entertainment and will save the world. Its a jail for god's sake. Oh but I forgot, everything in JC is based around prisons and jails. Sorry. " gofish wrote on Jul 24, 2008 8:27 AM: " boscoe wrote "However, the coommunity center also needs to be a multi-purpose center, where we can have big name entertainers and concerts. Also, plays, shows, and community meetings." I thought we already had such a building...Miller Performing Arts...couldn't that be used as conference space with some cooperation with JCPS? The Rotary Club uses it. Is it vacant most working days in the 8-5p? With the kind of advance planning conferences and concerts require, I'm certain dates could be negotiated in the evening if necessary. And, the JCPS could certainly use the revenue based upon the insane amount of taxes they steal from me. " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 7:23 AM: " I am reading that in the first year of Boston's convention center opening it needed a $12 mill public subsidy due to lack of bookings. And thats Boston where there is something to do. Much luck to you all. " boxergal wrote on Jul 24, 2008 6:46 AM: " Come on Cinnamon, that was an example. They are getting a whole big lineup of famous people. I don't like her either. I was giving an example of an a list entertainer, which I highly doubt has ever shown up in the great river city. If it doesn't play a fiddle, you won't see it there. " cinnamon wrote on Jul 24, 2008 6:22 AM: " If building a Convention Center means that Celine Dion will perform here, I am now moving to the group who is AGAINST building a Convention Center! " wow wrote on Jul 23, 2008 8:43 PM: " I'm addressing the comments posted under the name "Imakesense". Your screen name does not equate 2your comments. By that I mean, the responses Uprovided regarding this issue of a convention center don't make sense. You want higher taxes 2build a convention center yet you don't care if the people who will use the center have safe sidewalks, ADA accomadating facilities, well lit street areas 2navigate the city/county they are visiting. You scoff at the idea of new recreational areas, even though many of the perspective convention center visitors may not. Why is that? Also, telling other's 2 "shut up" isn't the answer 2anything, at least not in the real world. I hope you-R-able-2get-beyond-such-uncontrollable- outburst's-in-the-near-future. " boxergal wrote on Jul 23, 2008 5:24 PM: " Terrific idea. My home city just got through constructing a huge multipurpose center. They are attracting all kinds of famous entertainers (people like Celine Dion, etc). And if I am not mistaken, the cost was way, way below this that JC is proposing. Great idea. " boscoe wrote on Jul 23, 2008 5:18 PM: " I am in favor of a community center WITHOUT A HOTEL- big enough to actually be used for conventions, and not one on several different levels with lots of stairways. However, the coommunity center also needs to be a multi-purpose center, where we can have big name entertainers and concerts. Also, plays, shows, and community meetings. The community center should have facilities that LOCAL RESIDENTS can use. How about combining a community center with an indoor water park? Maybe some workout facilities that the YMCA could manage? If citizens are going to have to pay $40 million in increased taxes for this thing, at least construct something that citizens can use, not just for outsiders to enjoy. " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 5:14 PM: " Mac if you get arrested for attacking one of those creeps at Binder, I'll be first in line to bail you out! And yes, ODF, PLEASE tell where the good hamburgers are! :-) " Gfan wrote on Jul 23, 2008 4:22 PM: " Sorry this is not about the article, but ODF, where is the place that sells the good hamburger, I really would like to know. thanks " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 4:03 PM: " ~~~~Mac - Wasn't it just last year that Binder was on the news for the deviants hiding in the woods? Seems it was just last summer/fall that 13 did the big story on it. I know people that have been propositioned out there as recently as this spring~~~~ If anyone propositions me in that manner out there, you'll know about it ODF. I can see the NT headline now.... Man photographed running down Henwick Lane with a large treble hook in the back of his head dragging a rod and reel behind him. " imakesense wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:53 PM: " there are plenty of sidewalks...everywhere a sidewalk is needed,there is one...spend my money on more important things... keep mouthin and ill pop the tires on your houses rofl rofl rofl " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:51 PM: " ~~~I definitely agree with WOW that we need sidewalk's, sidewalk's, and MORE sidewalks!~~~ Anyone ever notice the medians in Columbia? Businesses adopt them and plant different things in them... flowers, shrubs, vegetables, trees, etc. I worked for a business that had one and it was like a major competition to the owner. She would get very anal about her "adopted median." " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:50 PM: " Mac - Wasn't it just last year that Binder was on the news for the deviants hiding in the woods? Seems it was just last summer/fall that 13 did the big story on it. I know people that have been propositioned out there as recently as this spring. However, glad to hear that problems are getting corrected. Maybe I'll have to give their new disc golf course a go one evening. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:46 PM: " ~~~~Binder has become a haven for whatever wants to lurk in the woods.~~~~~ Binder really got a bad name for the stuff that happened there a couple of years ago. I go out there on weekend nights sometimes and fish until 2 or 3 in the morning and I've been doing that for years. I never run into any trouble out there. The sherrif drives through about every hour or so and other than that, it's pretty quiet. " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:40 PM: " Wow boxer....great minds, huh?! BTW, if you're thinking like me, that should concern YOU! LOL!! " boxergal wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:40 PM: " PS - what happened to that cool bike lane that was to go under the bridge? Great idea. " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:35 PM: " sense - how do you know you're not trespassing by walking in the grass, if there is no sidewalk? Sidewalks are meant for people to walk on, families to enjoy an evening stroll, etc., obviously you're too young to know the concept. It's the lack of people being outside, kids in the front yards, families strolling on the sidewalks, etc., that causes a town to lose it's sense of community. " boxergal wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:27 PM: " All cities that care about themselves have sidewalks. Sidewalks are for the safety of kids walking to school, for the safety of foot pedestrians and for the enjoyment of people. The lake area just got through redoing some of theirs. And lighting is for the safety of neighborhoods. (unfortunately, I can't get that where I am at). " boxergal wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:22 PM: " You can present your ideas all you want but if you don't have that name recognition, forget it. Surely you have figured that out by now. All of these ideas are great but try to get someone to listen to them. " boxergal wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:19 PM: " You know unreconstructed....JC does have charm. And its biggest asset is the river, the bluffs and natural resources. But here is what really bothers me....I have become so flat to JC. I just don't care what happens to it. How can you get excited when all you see is this stuff in the paper. I moved and so are others. We go into JC and can't wait to get the heck out. Houses in my area are selling like hotcakes and so are those at the lake. You mentioned someone running for office....how long have you lived here???? You know as well as I do that its a small clique that runs the city. " imakesense wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:18 PM: " shut up with all of that sidewalk junk...thats the dumbest waste of money i have heard of...what are you scared to walk in a little patch of grass or something....god forbid you get a bug bite! " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:13 PM: " A casino?!?!? LOL!! I said an ATTRACTION, not an abberation! " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:09 PM: " cinnamon - Have you been on the greenway (if you're talking about the one around the ball fields and such off Mo Blvd). Are you comfortable being on it, alone, in the evening? Are you comfortable visiting every park? Do you get off the beaten path at Binder? Simply having parks is not sufficient if they are not family safe and secure. I have had incidents on the greenway in town...I would never recommend that a female use the greenway unless they were with others. Binder has become a haven for whatever wants to lurk in the woods. " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:05 PM: " I definitely agree with WOW that we need sidewalk's, sidewalk's, and MORE sidewalks! The Greenway is great, but just think if every part of town had sidewalk's in front of every house. At last count we have at least 7 parks I can think of, what are you referring to specifically? And the 2 middle schools are extremely modern, so are you talking about JCHS and the elementary schools? If so, I agree with you there too! " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:00 PM: " Sorry Buffy - a casino is a dead issue, not only by the City of Jefferson, but the State of Mo will no allow the licensing of any new casinos for the forseeable future. " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:56 PM: " ODF - you have never offended me my online friend. And you also present your views splendidly. We don't have to always agree, that would be boring anyway. This is a "hot-potato" issue, that's for sure. Like WOW said, I sure don't have all the answers either. Change for change sake isn't good, but change for the betterment of the community is what I hope we all desire. " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:53 PM: " I agree with cinnamon....we may not always agree unrecon, but I always appreciate well presented differing viewpoints. I'd love to see some sort of river walk (boardwalk type of thing), something done acorss the river and would love to see some sort of dinner/sight-seeing riverboat cruise come to town. Unfortunately I don't have the capital to do it and don't have the lack of integrity it takes to be a politician (please read that last part with the intended dose of sarcasm)!! LOL! As it stands now, there is little if anything to attract people to JC outside of work or Wal-Mart. " wow wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:52 PM: " I want this city 2modernize and attract high tech businesses and companies. But I see it happening faster when the area is seen as a place that provides the basic community faciltities which can be used by all the visiors and residents of our area. Also side walk's street light's, sufficient ADA accomodations, parks, modern schools, etc,etc, are things companies want a community 2provide their employee's. As important as it is, somehow I don't see a Convention Center as the golden carrot 2attract business's 2JC. I don't have all the answer's, but in my opinion growth in this area is needed, but I believe growing our area the right way would be best for everyone concerned. " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:44 PM: " Some of you have some really great ideas, I'm serious... run for office! That is not meant to be sarcasm, establish a platform and go for it. " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:43 PM: " Back from the hole already - just my point exactly ODF - there are different comments, some on this very forum have expressed positive attitudes toward the City in general. Those views count too. " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:41 PM: " unrecon - Maybe it's because city leaders are stuck in a holding pattern regarding certain ideas and plans and aren't bothering to think outside the box, so to speak. They continually come up with ideas like the CC that really will do nothing to expand the entertainment value of JC, bring tourist dollars to JC or capitalize on JC's unique charm and untapped potential. As long as city leaders continue to stay stuck in the same thought process....the general public will continue to have the same unsupportive comments. It's quite simple really....why would you expect different comments when city leaders do nothing different? " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:38 PM: " Mac - you have brought good ideas to the table, as have a few others, that's great! There are those on this and other forums however, that have not a good word to say about J.C., which does lead one to question why do those people choose to live here, or in the area. We agree I think that there is always room for improvement, I'm all for that. I'm just doing my best here to not name call, etc., been down that road, it ain't worth it. If you read enough of these forums, you will see that there are those that just prefer to complain, no ideas, etc. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:34 PM: " ~~~~What a few are saying however, is that it does get old to read comments continually running down Jeff.~~~~ I haven't read any of that. Where are you finding these comments? Look, having a different plan for the betterment of this city does not translate to running it down. It's just a different plan, that's all. I don't think anyone would have the motivation to talk about it if they simply just wanted to complain about Jefferson City with no viable solutions in mind. " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:32 PM: " Jefferson City is a town of Progressives and Regressives. Some see change as good, while some just want to revert back to 1950's Pleasantville. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:32 PM: " Unreconstructed, sometimes people do use statistics to skew realities and justify their arguements, but if you truly understand statistics (i.e. margin of error, sampling groups, etc.) you can quickly see who's telling the truth and who's not. People who never accept statistics in an arguement do not understand statistics, period. Did you know Neptune was found purely by using math? No telescopes, no kidding. " wow wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:31 PM: " Imakesense, I'm not against a JC Convention Center; however I am strongly against an $84.6 million dollar convention center in JC being built at this time. Have the supporter's of this project read the recent NT article "City mulls property tax dilemma"? If the leadership can't generate the needed tax revenue 2pay4 what's already here, then that $84.6 million project is gonna create some serious issue's. News flash, sidewalks and street lights R a safety issue, especially in the counties residential neighborhoods. If taxes have 2B raised to correct safety issues that's understandable. Also proper drainage would help solve some of the flooding problems the area experiences during heavy down pours. -Cont- " buffy wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:30 PM: " I have to agree with JCpatriot that we need attractions in this City before construction of a convention center. Here is a thought. Perhaps we can have a tour of the new JCCC and a tour of the City after 10:30p.m. by police officers for some good action packed adventure. Also, how about a police scanner in each room when you have nothing else to do. Can anyone tell me what attractions we have at night in this City. " unreconstructed wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:11 PM: " Look - anybody can make numbers say just about anything they want them to say, that's just the way it is. I haven't exactly decided where I stand on the Convention Center yet, I see goods, I see bads. What a few are saying however, is that it does get old to read comments continually running down Jeff. City, regardless of the issue. Now before anyone tells me to "just don't read the comments", that's just about like saying "just move out of Jeff. City", right? I've stayed away from the forums for more than a month, only to return to see the same old complaints.... ugh. " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:06 PM: " Actually something completely different I would do in downtown Jefferson City would be to get Union Pacific to move out of their little building down on the tracks, and make that a true Train Station. It has the looks of one, was it at one time? I don't know if Amtrak still comes here or if that little ticket counter down on the landing is still staffed, but I think visitors would be a little more impressed with a retro train station rather than an outdoor cobblestone area. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:41 PM: " ~~~Now there will be an outcry from the usual suspects here who will not research to find my data sources try to prove their own theories and call me a liar. Truth hurts!~~~~ PriceWaterhouseCooper and they're skewed. Nice try Amazed. :) " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:38 PM: " BTW ....have any of you CC supporters bothered to keep up on the other little news story "City mulls property tax dilemma". How can the city, on one hand, be talking about being on the hook for potentially millions of dollars while at the same time having a property tax dilemma. There's this little thing called fiscal responsibility...and JC leaders need to take classes on it. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:30 PM: " ~~~~~Another Liberal college professor (Ward Churchill's) findings are interesting to say the least, too, but I don't necessarily find anything he says to be anything close to the truth~~~~~ Cinnamon, just because someone teaches at a University does not mean they are a liberal for chrissakes. Sheesh, you aren't biased, are you? Where are your findings, Cinnamon? Are you justifying your decision based on "what your heart thinks you should do?" " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:28 PM: " Amazed - It's AMAZing how you like to twist posts/opinions around to suit your own need...and why is it you singled ME out, when so many others posted the same thoughts before me? You really need to get over your fascination with me. Where have I ever said I'm against JC improving infrastructure or building things to increase appeal? I have NOT...in fact I have stated the exact OPPOSITE!! All I'm saying is a CC will do nothing for infrastructure or appeal of JC. If you want to do battle, at least get the posts and context correct. Sheesh..... " imakesense wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:28 PM: " wow wrote:"The ldrship wants 2spend $84.6 million on a convention center, when the city and county is sooooooooooo in need of sidewalk's, street lights, drain repairs".......are u serious.....why in the heck do we want more street lights? so we have to spend more money on taxes to install them and then more tex money to replace bulbs and pay for electricity and tax money for the salary of the new job for the guy that has to do all of the maintenance...NO thats stupid...and we dont need more sidewalks....you want exercise? then get a bike and get on the katy trail..the sidewalks are everywhere they are needed to be and thats all we need...DRAIN REPAIRS?!? wtf ..do you skulk through the sewers at night? " gofish wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:18 PM: " AMAZED wrote: "Now there will be an outcry from the usual suspects here who will not research to find my data sources try to prove their own theories and call me a liar. Truth hurts!" Then cite your sources Amazed so we can evaluate the credibility of the source and the method of study. " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:17 PM: " 'ODFRS'? Please clarify, are those the Blue Hairs who shop at the IGA while their husbands play Keno at the Eagles? I feel like we live in 'Pleasantville' - all these online commenters wishing for a simpler 1950's Jefferson City... " imakesense wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:15 PM: " are you serious?? did seriously see someone complaining about not having enough food in the food pantries....why cant they get off their freeloading lazy butts and get a job? i have no sympathy for laziness and poor inferior scum...get a job, you shouldve thought about that before you losers dropped out of high school...LOL at YOU " missjc wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:12 PM: " and after watching Columbia news since KRCG is no longer on DISH I see even more reasons why I do not want our little town to be like Columbia. " missjc wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:09 PM: " One more thing hlbwoman, please do not judge JC on the few in here that want to put a stop to things just because it is not what they want which is a casino, Jefferson City is a wonderful place to live, no it may not have all of the things Columbia has or St Louis or KC but for a lot of people it is a nice town and I understand some like the big city lights and that is fine but for those who do like the big city lights then they usually find themselfs moving towards them! " AMAZED wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:07 PM: " He is a Professor of Public Administration at U of T, San Antonio. That should tell you something right there. He is Libertarian who advocates no government. He is a self promoter and basically a looney tunes nicknamed Professor Teflon. His absurd theories have been proven wrong time and time again. He uses outdated and selective data to advance his biased theories. The latest growth figures reference Convention Centers show an increase in revenue of 17% in large markets, 13% in midsize markets, and 38% in smaller markets. Now there will be an outcry from the usual suspects here who will not research to find my data sources try to prove their own theories and call me a liar. Truth hurts! " boxergal wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:06 PM: " "ODFRS"....its an elite club, Amazing. We all meet at the NEW taco bell for lunch, go shopping at Walmart and end up at Lowes for some excitement in the power tool section. What to join?? " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 1:03 PM: " Another Liberal college professor (Ward Churchill's) findings are interesting to say the least, too, but I don't necessarily find anything he says to be anything close to the truth. " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 12:50 PM: " Oops, that's it! Pull the plug on the Convention Center! Someone just found that article from 3 1/2 years ago about the research of a Liberal college professor! We were so close... " AMAZED wrote on Jul 23, 2008 12:46 PM: " God forbid we ever build anything in this city to improve its appeal and infrastructure. I am proud that we have visionary people in this town who try to project and invest in its future. We'd be a ghost town, or a town of 3500, if the posters here had their way. Apparently no one stops to think that increased revenue builds infrastructure. If I want to see whats wrong in Jeff City, I just read these posts. Lot of ODFRS out there. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 12:41 PM: " Also, do a search on a person named Heywood Sanders. He has written a host of studies with regard to convention center proposals in cities all accross the United States. His findings are interesting to say the least. Lastly, have any of you looked at any of the company's that form the development team? If you want to support this, that's fine, but please don't be so naive as to think any of these companies have your best interests in mind. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 12:28 PM: " Okay, no more speculation. Use your favorite search engine and look for an article entitled, "Building convention center a bad idea, study says." It was published January 18th, 2005 in "The (Colorado Springs) Gazette" and written by Rich Laden. It is very similar to what they're proposing now in Jefferson City. " missjc wrote on Jul 23, 2008 12:28 PM: " so many other things can be done and I think this convention center is one of many things that would draw people to our town. I am all for it and I hope we get it..next I would LOVE to see a riverwalk with lots of shops just like the one Branson recently built! " missjc wrote on Jul 23, 2008 12:26 PM: " hlbwoman what you have to understand about this forum is that thier are a handful of people who complain about how boring this town is and bash any project that is brought up unless it is a casino, they think a casino is the only thing that will bring people and money to this community. I feel this center would be a great start for our community, it will provide jobs for many people..yes Jefferson city does not have many attractions right now but you have to start some place and like cinnamon said so many stores have come to JC and each year it grows more and more but in a GOOD way, we don't need casino's to bring money in " Mac wrote on Jul 23, 2008 12:25 PM: " ~~~So exactly who won't invest here???? ~~~~ Cinnamon, seriously? A discount clothing store, Lowes, a strip mall and a road in 10 freakin years? Are you kidding me, Cinnamon? " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 12:20 PM: " JC is great...if you like strip malls, pay-day loan stores and franchise "restaurants". Sorry cinnamon, but to me putting in/remodeling franchise stores & restaurants does not amount to "investment". I live in a town of 3500...we have our own McDonald's, Pizza Hut....but we also have a non-franchised chinese restaurant, a little cafe and a burger joint that puts Steak & Shake to shame with better food, a full service buffet AND cheaper prices. What has been "invested" in JC that will make me want to drive to JC, except for work? " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 11:41 AM: " Someone just posted the line 'Fear of spending money and the side effects will stop anyone from investing $ in JC' - what are you talking about???? Since I moved here in 1999, they've opened up 179 between 50 and 54, they've knocked down a mountain to build a Lowe's and the Wildwood crossings mini-mall (you know, the one with Chili's and Longhorn's), they've built Kohl's and soon-to-be Menard's, they're building a new Wal-Mart and modernizing the current one, and just about every fast food franchise has been torn down and rebuilt. So exactly who won't invest here???? " cinnamon wrote on Jul 23, 2008 11:34 AM: " If anyone has EVER attended a function at the Capitol Plaza or the Ramada, you know that we need not only a Convention Center, but a decent-size parking lot too! I also think that some of the regulars who comment on everything they read online should run for office. I don't think you're going to see change come from commenting online. Action = Change! " boxergal wrote on Jul 23, 2008 11:32 AM: " Oh my god, a person after my heart. Run while you can. I relocated from a big city. Was miserable because of those small town attitudes. Now I am living in what would be called a "bedroom community" outside of JC. Couldn't be happier. OH we still have small town ideas but, hey its a small burg. I think JC has this overinflated idea of how great it is and to outsiders nothing could be further from the truth. But hey, if you move there and don't like it, don't complain cause they will tell you to move, rather than solve the problem. Ego is going to kill that place. " hlbwoman wrote on Jul 23, 2008 11:28 AM: " I don't post often, but I read the New Tribune daily. This post is not just a reflection of my feelings related to the Convention Center story, but also my feelings regarded posts discussing stories for the past two years. I was thinking about relocating to Jefferson City, but have decided to move elsewhere. Why? Small-town attitudes, that's why. JC citizens don't support anything that might attract businesses on the grounds that they might have to help support them. Fear of spending money and the side effects (crime increase,in particular) will stop anyone from investing $ in JC. You've got to sacrifice a little to get the benefits, which might pay for your infrastructure improvements. " wow wrote on Jul 23, 2008 11:12 AM: " Add the fact that this $84.6 million project calls 4higher taxes...well it's like this. I don't want 2pay higher taxes at all, but if I have2, then I'd sure appreciate if it was 4something that made sense and had realistic benefits. In fact from what I read in the paper's and have discussed over "water cooler conversation", many city and county citizens feel the same as I do, but right now I'm only speaking 4me. In my opinion JC does need a convention center, but not b4 the issues of sidewalks, streetlights, out door rec-facilties, ADA accoodations, etc, etc are resolved. An 84.6 million in a city that barely has 50,000 citizens & very-little-industrial/business-activity-is-something-I-cannot-support. " boxergal wrote on Jul 23, 2008 11:02 AM: " The last convention my husband attended was at Disney World. Health sent him there. And people do take their kids along on business trips. What the heck are they to do here?? Its funny, we did some business in St Louis last week. In talking to the salesman he told us that he had brought his daughter to some sort of soccer game here. Told us he had visited the Capitol. Then looked at us and said "it was OK". Thats not the response you want when you mention JC. It was OK. " wow wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:53 AM: " The ldrship wants 2spend $84.6 million on a convention center, when the city and county is sooooooooooo in need of sidewalk's, street lights, drain repairs, modern accomodations 4the disabled and outdoor recreational facilties 4our growing youth population, who by the way currently don't have many choices of appropriate entertainment or recreation. Say ya build this thing, and fill the convention-center. What Rthese 1000's&1000's of convetioneer's gonna do 4entertainment? Ck out, Bones, Spectators, Long Horn Steak House, McDonald's, what? Perhaps these lucky folks could vist Binder Lake or go see the Apache Manor Trailer Park, CC or the Foot. Us JC resident's know there's alway's something 2see at those places. -Cont- " webamerica wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:47 AM: " Until we put some type of main attractions in this city, the convention center will only be used by maybe the state. Build a riverwalk with business space for the community to enjoy. How can we attract other people to JC when we don't enjoy the attractions here? It's impossible. Word of mouth is the largest public media. I tell everybody I know that there's nothing here to do. I'm sure lot of other people do the same. With that in mind (city representatives), how can you promote a new convention center? You can't, not for the long haul. It takes attractions, to bring people long term. Until every hotel is sold out in JC every weekend, we don't need more. " boscoe wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:46 AM: " If this was such a good deal, the mayor would be investing HIS OWN money in the project. He knows it is a loser, so instead he wants to use OUR MONEY instead. " boscoe wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:45 AM: " ODF, even eating is a problem here. Where are they going to go- one of the chain restaurants down on the blvd? We don't even have any good gourmet restaurants except 319 Grill at DeVille, and that place is tiny. The Lake, Branson, and even Columbia have a whole lot more eating opportunities than JC. " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:43 AM: " LOL @ two cents...these folks can't even correctly calculate lodging tax and they're expected to oversee construction of a multi-million dollar project w/o ensuring cost overruns??!!! LOL!! Whatever happened to the old "no taxation without representation" idea? Everywhere you turn there's a special tax for this or that, there's income tax, sales tax, lodging tax, fuel tax, property tax, improvement taxes, blah, blah, blah.... It's time citizens stand up, govt. start living w/i their means and being accountable and politicians get their hands OUT of the public $$ jar. " boscoe wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:42 AM: " Boxergal nailed it. NO one is going to want to have a convention here because there are no attractions to make conventioneers want to come here. We don't have great golf courses nearby. No riverboat dinner cruises. No music shows, plays or concerts. The shopping here is a joke. No Outlet Malls. I guess they can go look at a few statues at the capitol and eat some corporate Prarie Farms icecream cones. State government has meeting space that it could hold meetings here now, but instead chooses to go to the Lake or Columbia because of the attractions and the chance to GET OUT OF JC to have a little fun. " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:39 AM: " sweet - Thanks for chiming in....although I'm not sure I agree with you on the benefits to the city. You say that money could best be used in JC....what money? If it's a privately-owned center, then JC gets little if any money. If it's city-owned (or at least partly) I highly doubt there will be much profit over and above operating expenses. Also...please tell me what pre- and post-meeting activities will you be attending within JC?? I think that's everyone's point...there is nothing here to do outside of having a meeting, except eat and that $$ goes to corporate franchises. " boscoe wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:31 AM: " Isn't this a wonderful country? Tax the poor citizens to death to fund revenue-generating business expansions for the large corporate developers! Even better, have our tax dollars guarantee a rate of return for the wealthy corporation! I smell all sorts of campaign contributions and kickbacks here. CORPORATE WELFARE is nothing more than our government and elected officials stealing from the poor to give to the rich. How can the mayor even sleep at night? Doesn't he have a conscience? " two_cents_worth wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:06 AM: " I particularly like this statement: But the plans also hold the city's general revenue fund responsible, if financing plans go awry. The city would agree to appropriate (funding) in case of shortfalls, said Moffett. That's the back stop. But then, construction projects never have cost over-runs and always stay within budgets. Uh-huh. Also- The current lodging tax is 3 cents and they want to raise it by 9 cents. When I went to school, that equaled 12 cents. But the plan is to go to 14 cents? Soooo- they want to raise it 11 cents? Maybe they should re-do the math on the rest of the project as well. " sweet1 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 9:59 AM: " I've got to tell ya, I think JC is long overdue for a good meeting facility. I, for one, am tired of taking my larger meetings out of town when I could bring in many people to JC. The state has several meetings each month that have to go out of town, too. That is money that could best be used here in Jeff City. While we are tax exempt, the real money to be made would be from catering and food expense. Meetings could last from 8-5, but dinners out, pre and post-meeting activities could bring in other funds to the city. " boxergal wrote on Jul 23, 2008 9:58 AM: " I CAN chime in on this one. I do pay for the school. PLEASE do something about that place or build a new one. Our kids are our future. I keep staring at this price tag on this. Its unbelieveable. There are no golf courses around that are award winning to go to, no fabulous shopping malls, no water parks, nothing for people to do when staying in this thing. NOTHING. Oh yea, I forgot, they can go get ice cream. " newsreader08 wrote on Jul 23, 2008 9:55 AM: " Here we are talking about Millions of dollar for something the public will get no use out of probably.. I agree with MAC1974 and boscoe .. lets use the money for our schools and improvement of the community that is needed, instead of a fancy conference center.. " geofra wrote on Jul 23, 2008 9:19 AM: " The convention center has been talked about ever since I have moved here; so, I, no doubt, missed the answer to this question: Does Jefferson City need a convention center? Also, does the benefit of added revenues justify the cost of building it? Does the cost stated in the article seem reasonable for a 250 room hotel and a 40,000 square foot convention center? It was mentioned that it may be on the high side, but I don't know what the cost is being compared to. " xgens wrote on Jul 23, 2008 9:06 AM: " Don't forget that a significant percentage of the business at this new location will be state and association business, which is tax exempt, meaning that any sales tax financed plans will have no impact. " gofish wrote on Jul 23, 2008 8:38 AM: " Also, more of your tax dollars will go into this project because they will depend upon state government utilizing this facility to support its existance. Maybe JC wants to build a new baseball stadium in hopes of attracting a team. If you build it, they may not come. Just look at what happened in Branson when they overbuilt in the 90's. The price of hotel rooms plumetted causing LOST revenue. " gofish wrote on Jul 23, 2008 8:36 AM: " THere will be no increase in city revenues from this facility for years, other than what other local businesses MIGHT generate IF people come. And seriously, if I'm throwing a huge conference, wouldn't I rather be at Lake of the Ozarks? What incentive is there for my tax dollars to finance 50% of a private retail business that I will have absolutely no ownership and to guarantee the loan I give based upon money I don't have. Could this plan be any more stupid? Perhaps the city would pay 50% of a new house I'd like to build in an economically deprived area wherein my house would increase the value of the surrounding properties. " gofish wrote on Jul 23, 2008 8:32 AM: " On one hand this project would create new jobs albeit mostly minimum wage service jobs and a handful of management jobs. However financing 1/2 of the project with public money is insane. Especially when the city is considering raising property taxes for the general public, while giving these ya-hoo's a huge tax break. And seriously, does JC have the means to guarantee a (TIF) loan? JC will become the next failed "lending" institution. Then what? Bad idea for JC bad, bad, bad. " ODF wrote on Jul 23, 2008 7:44 AM: " This has to be one of the most hare-brained ideas to hit this town since the tri-level. It's obvious the city leaders/planners do not have a clue about the current econony or their own town. People will not come to a convention center simply because it's in JC, there must be activities and entertainment, which this town is sorely lacking. " aswell wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:56 PM: " Better buy your snow tires now the city wont have the cash in the coffer to move snow this next season or you could bank roll the dice and parley it at the casino. Love that TIF. " hasher28 wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:24 PM: " Unspecified other sources. The article stated in part "Added all together, the list comes to $2.86 million in potential public revenues the first year. But the plans also hold the city's general revenue fund responsible, if financing plans go awry. The city would agree to appropriate (funding) in case of shortfalls, said Moffett. That's the back stop. I don't believe the city should enter into an agreement where the city's general revenue fund will be used to fulfill any unmet funding problem. We have better places to spend our limited resources. In fact, this entire project should be a private venture. " mccrabb wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM: " Must be a election year, they tell the people what they want (blowing smoke up our ...) " boscoe wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:03 PM: " Instead of blowing 43 million dollars of our tax money on another dumpy hotel, I'd sure rather invest that money on our crumbling and out of date schools. How about stepping up the road maintenance? How about cleaning up the abandoned houses? How about sidewalks for our neighborhoods? $43 is an awful lot of tax money for a risky investment of a small hotel and a multi-level convention center with all those stairs. 40,000 square feet of convention space is not very much. " JCpatriot wrote on Jul 22, 2008 9:56 PM: " I think you have to build attractions first so people who visit might be able to stay & afford staying there. Also Jeff city tourist rate is far from the best in the Midwest, there will have to be drastic changes downtown. IE; Museums,Restraunts,casino etc. for this hotel even to be filled. " sunshinemo1 wrote on Jul 22, 2008 9:27 PM: " I am so sorry that we can spend millions of dollars on this when we can barley have enough food at our food pantries to give out to people who need it.people are loosing their homes,their jobs ,and there cabinets don't have enough food to feed their family's and you can put this project with all those millions ahead of helping the people who really need help.well good luck and may it really be a beautiful building when you get done and we won't worry about the others who need help so badly. sunshinemo1 " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 22, 2008 6:28 PM: " Build a convention center and the businesses will come! Is there really a yo-yo out there that believes this? Make the schools better, improve the infrastructure, promote diversity, enforce a city-wide cleanup, market the city (not with a friggin logo) Promote a "green" environment, have events that showcase small businesses here which will in turn attract more businesses, offer incentives for new businesses (incentives worth noticing), clean up downtown and make it appealing to popular businesses (ever been to Lawrence, Kansas?). The list goes on and on and on. This is not rocket science folks. " Mac1974 wrote on Jul 22, 2008 6:07 PM: " ~~~~The current lodging tax is 3 cents - below what many other communities charge, Moffett said.~~~~ Sheesh Mr. Moffett, does that baffle you? What "other" communities are you talking about? Kansas City? Columbia? Springfield? St. Louis? Are you talking about communities that appeal to tourists and have something to offer? " |
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lovemyboys wrote on Jun 3, 2009 9:54 AM:
The economy right now is affecting everyone (cities, counties, municipalities, etc)...noone is immune. But, you have to think about the future....Jeff City is not perfect, but I've yet to find a place that is. "