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Boonville's pay-off

A view from inside the Isle of Capri casino at Boonville, Mo. (Stephen Brooks/News Tribune photo)

By Kris Hilgedick
khil@newstribune.com
Published: Sunday, March 9, 2008 3:45 PM CDT
Six years after the Isle of Capri Casino was constructed along Boonville's northern riverbank, most citizens of the small town appear to have a live-and-let-live attitude toward its operation.

“For the ones who were against gaming in the beginning, I'm pretty sure they are holding their ground,” said Police Chief Jim Gholson.

But others - who initially worried about skyrocketing crime rates - have seen their fears ease. Crime appears to have dropped by a third since 2002.

Gholson asked: “Is it because of our excellent police work? Or is it because there's less crime regionally?”

“Crime comes in waves,” he shrugged.

The chief believes having a casino nearby has not generated significant problems for his officers.


“We had one armed robbery at a pizza store that was directly related to the Isle,” he said. “But we do not patrol the Isle of Capri any more than any other business. The security at the casino is great.”

The main infraction his officers respond to, as a result of the casino, are rural drivers who come into town with their license tags expired.

Several people interviewed for this story had positive things to say about the casino. The town of 8,000 people derived almost $4 million from the casino in 2007.

“It's a nice attraction,” said Boonville City Councilman Jim Painter. “It's had a positive impact.”

When the casino was first proposed, leaders really feared a jump in licentious behavior. As a result, a significant portion of the casino proceeds are funneled toward law enforcement - not only in Boonville, but in communities nearby.

The town has been able to build a new police station and buy patrol cars. Town leaders are looking at ways to improve the fire service. They also want to construct a water tower.

“The problem is, with such a sudden influx of money, you want to spend it on various things to improve the city,” Painter said. “You want to do everything all at once.”

Having the extra money has allowed leaders to do some of the less-than-glamourous tasks that needed to be done, he added. In 2007 a large portion was spent repairing the city's water plant and improving its wastewater system. Officials also spent $326,322 on street overlays and $32,487 for sidewalk matching funds.

Several years ago, town leaders used $500,000 in casino funds to purchase the former campus of the Kemper Military Academy. In 2007, they spent $455,774 to improve Johnston Field House, which now is home to Boonville's YMCA.

Theresa Krebs, editor of the Boonville Daily News, believes citizens there have a “primarily positive” perception of the casino.

“I know some in the church community don't support it,” Krebs said, adding that, when people are down on their luck, they tend to ask church leaders for assistance. “But from the city's perspective, it's been a godsend.”

Krebs said the casino has helped the community update infrastructure and meet the regulatory demands of federal and state government. Without an influx of casino dollars, Krebs believes citizens would have faced “really drastic rate increases” for water and sewer service.

Six years ago, casino naysayers also worried that traffic congestion would swamp the small town.

Gholson, who has been with the police force since 1970, said he and his fellow officers used to love Friday nights when a football game would bring a little more excitement to town.

Other nights of the week? “The streets folded up,” he remembered.

Today, there's a few more drivers on the city streets, but it's not overly congested, he said.

Gholson said when open boarding was legalized - which allows casino patrons to come and go as they please - it helped disperse crowds. “If you don't drive past it, you'd never know it was there,” he said.

But Gholson's praise isn't unqualified.

People always tell him how much they won. “I don't see how they are still open with all the winners,” he scoffed.

When he watches people leave the building, body language clearly reveals who got lucky and who didn't.

“There are more frowns,” he said.

Steve Wehrle, owner of a downtown gift shop, believes gambling has replaced pastimes such as bowling, dancing and skating.

“Things go in a cycle,” he said. “Eventually, people will get tired of losing” and gaming will be replaced with a new fad.

“It does bring people in,” he added. “They want something to do.”

Wehrle - a former General Motors employee - is concerned the industry “takes money out of our country.”

“Is it circulating in our country? Or does it go overseas?” he asked.

Wehrle doesn't believe the Isle's slot machines are as loose as they used to be. He thinks the casino used to offer $100,00 giveaways; now the contests are smaller, he said.

“That's what I watch,” he said. “It tells you how the economy is doing.”

Jewelry artist Linda Grant thinks the casino helps her small business. But like Wehrle, she has reservations.

“It's made it easier for me to sell my jewelry,” she said. “As a Christian, I don't participate. I don't care for gambling.”

She added: “I don't have anything against the casino. They have a nice facility; they keep it up.”

Insurance agent Tammi R. Post, who has offices downtown, doesn't think the casino has changed Boonville much.

“I thought it would bring things down, but it's actually brought jobs,” she said.

Post sometimes sees buses of senior citizens trundle by.

“There are lots of out-of-towners, which is good for the community,” she said.

She thinks the influx of cash into the community has made it easier for downtown property owners to fix up their business facades.

Even a local Baptist pastor didn't argue passionately against the Isle.

Mark Martin, minister of Family Life and Music for First Baptist Church, was living in Kansas City when lawmakers approved gaming. Many pastors there had a hard time dealing with the influx of people who needed help, he said.

But the young pastor hasn't responded to many gambling-induced calls for benevolence.

And he doesn't think Boonville residents are gambling heavily.

“It was a novelty at first. Now it's a tourist draw,” he said.

“As a church, I don't know that it has affected us directly,” Martin said. “I've been here 10 years ... and during that period I've had only two or three people say, ‘We're here and we don't have the gas money to get home.'

“But I also don't come out and ask them, ‘What happened?' We help people who need it. It's between them and God.”

Martin doesn't believe the tourists are stopping to explore the town.

“Has it helped the economy? Hurt it? I can't say,” he said.

Jefferson Citians will vote on a pair of issues lifting the city's prohibition on a riverside casino on April 8.





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ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:59 PM:

" when they come into our town...we are down on the bars...but yet the only place to go in this town is the bars...and i sure cant and dont want to take my kids there...we always seem to be driving to the Lake of the Ozarks, Columbia, St Louis or Steelville to find something to do with our family...as a community we should be concerned with the fact that we have nothing for our younger generation to do or to keep them out of trouble...do we want them all to move away so all that is left is the elderly in our area so this town will die off? "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:57 PM:

" is all we think...i see the potential for jobs, which means income into households who may not have had income. (unemployement is up)I see entertainment (not just gambling), new restraunts as well as many other things that all come with these casinos. Some even bring in hotels...which we have already brought in a couple of new hotels and had facelifts on others but look at them they are empty even on weekends (why because we have nothing to do). Business are closing daily in our area leaving us wondering what will help. We have our goverment but there istalk of trying to move the Capitol back to St Charles wonder why they would want to do that....hmmm most are from thosebig cities and are bored.... "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:53 PM:

" Pio I am very proud to be an American because my husband, my bestfriend, my sister in law, my brother in law, both of my grandfathers, and my cousins are fighting and have fought for that right. I also agree we may not agree on everything. You see the fact of getting a casino a big sin...me on the other hand can look at the good it can bring if given the chance. Not all areas have had bad with a casino and Booneville is one of those areas...I also agree that we need growth in our town and that there are many ways to get there. I dont just see the casino being the only way though. Just because we vote YES doesnt meanThat "

pioneers wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:21 PM:

" Ndn I don't think I said "that the anti people have more pride in this city then those wanting a casino."

And I'm glad you are proud of your town. I really am.

We both want to see growth, and improvements. We just don't agree on how to get there. And that's ok too.

Perhaps the thing we can both take a ton of pride in is the fact that we are Americans and have the right to free speech. And we choose the exercise that right by talking to each other, even though we know we don't agree. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 21, 2008 6:58 PM:

" the cost to run a business is so much in JC that many businesses in the first year go under...it is sad that we would prefer to see the unemployement keep rising then to find ways to bring businesses and entertainment to our area....instead we have kids getting into trouble with drugs , thugs stealing, and tearing things up....so what is great about that? "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 21, 2008 6:56 PM:

" To say that the anti people have more pride in this city then those wanting a casino is wrong to say. We have as much pride in our town as the next person difference is we wish to see growth instead of things staying stagnet and watch all the youth moving away because theres nothing here. Not everyone can work for the state or at the Capitol bldg...this town needs lots of help...the only change i have seen since i was a child is that businesses are open on sundays theres less businesses staying in town most are closing and going other places...hmmm what a place...we have closed drive in movie theater, a bowling alley, and many stores in the mall... "

pioneers wrote on Mar 21, 2008 2:15 PM:

" Thanks Easton. "

Easton wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:18 PM:

" Boscoe, give me a break. What a terrible attempt at turning a statement. "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:59 AM:

" "You need to get over your anger about JeffCity residents who are proud of their city."


Pride cometh before the fall.

Isn't Pride one of the seven deadly sins? "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:58 AM:

" WHAT IF

What if the vote passes and we don't get a casino?

What if "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:57 AM:

" Hey-- it is a lot better to make the investment during the "down" times so that when the times get better, the return on the investment is much higher. The investors will get more for their money if they invest when the stock is down. I'd rather buy cheap, not buy when it is boomtime. "

Justin wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:55 AM:

" Boxer,

How are sevearl of yoru post geared toward me when it comes to the whole chapter 11 thing?? i never said anything about that. I saw 3 or 4 of your post that seemed to berating me, and i have no idea why.

i fully agree with you on the chapter 11. thats pio trying to scare people, not me. Chapter 11, gives a company the time and money it needs to reorganize and become even better.

so ya again, what did i say to have your post directed to me box?? "

boxergal wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:19 AM:

" I would say "balls in your court" but I am done. This is a total waste of time and if people can't see through it, then so be it. I will be watching KRCG on the 8th and if you hear a big whoopee, it will be me, screaming from the bluffs of Holts Summit.
"

boxergal wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:17 AM:

" I never perceived facts as arguing. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:16 AM:

" Absolutely not. I post because I have the right to. I don't have to have an excuse. I am not frustrated with not being able to vote on it, I am not frustrated with any of this. Its no ones business why I post on it. Last time I checked, you don't have to live in an area to have a opinion on it. If you don't like it tell the News Tribune. By the way, are you and pio married? Just curious. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:27 PM:

" This question is for those of you that live outside the city and can't vote on this issue. Do you post and argue so much with the anti casino side because you are frustrated you can't vote on it? "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:17 PM:

" attack, sorry. And yea, you have a good night too. I just couldn't sit and read this stuff any longer. Its too unbelievable. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:12 PM:

" Why is it when someone rebutts you on this stuff you say its an attack????? You don't know attact. I am like a bulldog. Its a real shame I couldn't vote on this cause I would have had my hooks in it from the getgo and had posters all over town. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:10 PM:

" Have you heard of Unions? "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:10 PM:

" Boxer I believe you are trying to get me to stop expressing my ideas. You are attacking me and you need to tone down your attacks.

I will be paying for a casino to come here if this ballot issue passes. My taxes will subsidize the studies, the city staff time that is spent working on the project, and all kinds of other things.

And it is my city. I am not ashamed of saying that. You need to get over your anger about JeffCity residents who are proud of their city. You may not relate to it, but you need to quit attacking people who feel that way.

Have a nice evening. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:07 PM:

" Donald Trump....take me away. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:06 PM:

" Hasher I don't agree that any company investing here is good. If the company is not sound, and cannot last for the long haul, then they can cause more harm than good.

For example if a company opens a business, hires people, but ends up going out of business in a year or two it's really not good. Sure they pump some money in the area, they hire people. But when they leave they lay off people and leave an empty storefront. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:03 PM:

" Exactly hasher...you get it. Actually (and I hope this is not the case)....this probably is all a moot point as I doubt anything ever comes of this. But you all that are for it can hope. And sometimes employees do a buyout. Not sure if casinos do that. This discussion has gotten silly. Scare tactics. I am not Edward D. Jones, but even I know enough about this stuff to see through this. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:59 PM:

" Just a note of interest....I am finding a Highbeam article that says Isle of Capri is in the process of buying out a casino firm in Caruthersville for $45 million (atzec I believe). Yes, I can use the internet too. Don't ask me to prove it, find it yourself. "

hasher28 wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:48 PM:

" Usually when a company files bankruptcy, everything they do must be approved by a judge or a board. If IofC is doing bad, then more than likely another company would look to invest here - if anyone did. Anyone investing here if good for growth, growth means jobs, jobs equate to a lively economy and better lives. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:41 PM:

" "You may not realize that people pay attention to financial news" (or whatever the heck that was) Well, NO duh. How do you think I retired so early? Let me give you a tip....boomers are shrewed. You may be talking to some thirty somethings in here that don't know any better, but I do. Again, quit scaring people. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:37 PM:

" And I am not attacking you. I am asking you don't put info out there unless you know what you are talking about. Oh yea, it looks real scary to folks to see Chapter 11. Again, this is a time when companies reorganize and sometimes come out on top. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:34 PM:

" Are you paying for this????? Oh, I forgot this is your city. don't lecture me about investing, I have done so and done it well. I know what I am doing. You won't be paying for it, will you? Will the city be investing in this or a group of individuals? If its a group of individuals, then its non of your business if they take a risk on it and lose or not. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:27 PM:

" Boxer it appears you are attacking me for expressing my opinions. Not good.

If you want to invest in companies that are declaring bankruptcy, go ahead.

You may not realize that a lot of people pay attention to financial and economic news, and try to educate themselves about stocks, investing, and how to avoid seeing their retirement evaporate because of inflation. If you're pulling your hair out because you don't like that, you must be bald.

Many people are taking personal responsibility for supporting themselves in retirement. Smart investing is one way to do that. Putting your money in bad investments is what people do when they can afford the risk. JeffCity is not in that position. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:26 PM:

" By the way Justin....when a company files Chapter 11, it give them a chance to reorganize and if I am not mistaken that gives them a chance to become a better company. This discussion is NUTS to say the least. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:11 PM:

" Pio - do you take this people for idiots or what???? Read my post to Justin. You have sunk to a depth that even I can't believe. Are you an investment banker? If not, I suggest you quit trying to scare these people into thinking that a company will go out of business just because they filed Chapter 11 or because their stock is down. Good lord, does this mean this much to you to sink to making statements like this? "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:08 PM:

" Justin - I have to respond to this or I am going to tear my hair out. Ignore the stuff on bankcruptcy. Number one, who knows if JC will ever get a casino. And number two - on the Chapter 11.....give me a break in life. These people are so oblivious its ridiculous. My bro works for United airlines and it filed Chapter 11...guess what, its still flying. A company still works even though Chapter 11 is filed. This is just another scare. And number 3 - the stock thing is ridiculous. I own stock in a major company. Sure its not doing good but it certainly doesn't mean the company is folding. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:39 PM:

" By the way ndn, where do you think everyone else is tonight? I bet they're watching basketball.

Oh, oh, I said bet. Now I bet Brother Boscoe is going to start calling me a betting chicken little. Oh well, it will make him happy.

"

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:31 PM:

" NDN, I'm gonna be blunt with you girl. Here's the deal:

I've looked at two gaming companies and both are having problems.

Now you're saying well, we need to look at Isle of Capri in Boonville and if alls good there, then everything is fine with this company.

If JeffCity was so unfortunate as to have the Isle of Capri come here and put a casino, and the same thing happened to that casino that happened to the 2 (not one but 2) casinos that they sold Legends, then we're in deep doo doo. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:26 PM:

" Truthseeker you asked if anyone knew anything about the bills being considered in the Missouri Assembly on gaming. I think you're interested in the bills to put a moratorium on issuing licenses. I went to their website and found 3 bills that appear to be attempting to do this:

Senate Bill 1171, last action was 3/5/08. I think this one has gotten out of committee with a "Do Pass" vote (I could be wrong about that).

House Bill 2232, last action 2/25/08.

House Bill 2420, last action 3/13/08.

It's hard to tell from the website whether any of these are likely to pass. But you never know. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:25 PM:

" So if I am hearing your right Pio you believe it is IoC that is all the problems but no where have I seen that it will be an IoC that we would get. Not all casinos are doing bad...there are many out there and I have yet to hear where Ameristar or Harrahs are doing bad...and we keep hearing about how good IoC is doing in Booneville and you keep talking about how stock is down...stock is an over all not each individual place...Lets see how is it doing in Booneville? "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:21 PM:

" NDN in your last post that you had a lot of "seems" in there, for example from what we have heard from Boonville it seems they're doing ok. But we should go by what is really happening. Truthseeker has posted a couple of things that indicate Isle of Capri is having financial difficulty. Also a company called Legends has filed chapter 11 bankruptcy. I just read something on another blog (The Deal.com) that discussed the Legends Bankruptcy and said that Legends bought 2 casinos from Isle of Capri. Legends claims those 2 casinos played a big part in the problems they are now having. I'm sure it seemed like those 2 casinos were making money when Legends bought them, but the reality was different. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:21 PM:

" Pio i agree we wont agree on this subject and guess what I was born and raised in the Jefferson City area...I work in Jefferson City for the state...I know what kind of revenues we are missing out in our area by far...work with it day in and day out...see the crime in our town right now...we need to see growth and just from what we have heard from the Booneville IoC seems that their income was up in the last year. We need to understand what is good for one may not be for the other and vise versa...but remember just because one thing doesnt work doesnt mean another wont..look at Ameristar and Harrahs they dont seem to be doing too bad..why? "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:37 PM:

" Sorry ndn you and I will have to disagree on how to approach investing. I based my statement on recollections of what happened to people who invested in companies that were on the downturn. They lost their money.

Throughout this forum I have been honest that I live in JeffCity, have invested in my home and feel like I have given a part of myself to this city, not just with money but with my time and energy. I will be very upfront with my city councilmen about what I do and don't want to see the city do. I don't want our city council to bank on a bad investment to raise money to pave streets. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:23 PM:

" pioneers you keep bringing up stock on IoC and it being down...have you looked at all the industries as a whole...what about the State of Missouri itself...oh yea they are making big cuts in the budget already...so have had talk of cuts to jobs at the state...so my question then if we go by the what IF and run with our head hung down what will boost the economy to run scared?? Dont think so...to get money coming in we need the things that draw the money into our area....look at the number of bankruptcies in our area...and please dont tell me that those arent that many...they are up way up "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 6:17 PM:

" Sorry, I don't know how the current one is doing. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 6:15 PM:

" Truthseeker: Yes I do know about that bill. I think it was narrowly voted down last year in another form. I think it had the limit at less casinos. I'm not sure what is behind it though. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 20, 2008 6:00 PM:

" Justin, the reason I brought up the info on Isles stock etc is because some 5 zillion posts ago this started out as a story about Boonville and the Isle of Capri there. *smile* That and the fact that I was finding some info that showed some financial problems in the casino world(also Legends Gaming co bankrupcty)

I would be very surprised if they could open another casino in MO at this point in time. Research shows they probably have their hands full other places.

Anyone know how the bill is going up at the capital? To limit the casino number to the 13 the state already has? "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:41 PM:

" Justin the reason I mentioned the Isle of Capri is because their economic woes may well be pointing to the gaming industry as a whole facing an economic downturn.

I remember hearing many stories after the "dot.com" bubble burst, about people who didn't do their homework, had heard that tech stocks were the hottest thing going, and invested in companies that were in an industry facing disaster. Those people lost their investment.

I don't think the gaming industry is facing disaster, but I do believe it is facing a downturn. It would be foolish for this community to "bet" on a casino doing all that you expect. "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:31 PM:

" boxer,

i wasnt questioning that. i almost added it to my post. I fully agree that a casino has a lot more worth than the slots and tables. I was just curious as i had seen someone post stats earlier today about how IoC wasnt doing so good on the stock market, and i got to wondering how we can determine that has an effect on us, when we dont even know if it did pass, that it would be IoC "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:18 PM:

" I don't have a clue. I just want to make a point that they have other activities that go on. "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 3:59 PM:

" I notice people keep bringing up the isle of capri in regards to JC's potential casino. Is there any statement that if we did get a casino that it would be IoC?? What about Ameristar or Hararhs, or etc... (just curious if that had been mentioned, or if people were just assuming based on the one in Boonville). "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 3:50 PM:

" Did you all know that Isle of Capri has cooking classes? Yes cooking classes. Its not all about gambling. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 3:49 PM:

" NDN - And the old Cedar City area would be perfect for those. And on the Pow Wow's....thats what I mean about culture. All types of culture. Lincoln does a great job of teaching that with their dance troups, etc. I just miss things like the ballet, and the art museums and yes, we had Pow Wow's and it was fascinating. I love the Lewis and Clark activities but I think there needs to be more in the way of our Native American culture around here (and please people don't tell me to visit the Capitol museum). Anyway, great ideas NDN, I would love that too. "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 20, 2008 3:39 PM:

" Let the investors make the decision whether or not to invest to build a casino here. It is their money-- let them invest it if they think the market is viable.

Get rid of the barriers to free trade and open markets in this town! Let the investors and entrepreneurs do their thing if they want to take the risk.

Local government should not be hindering commerce and free markets. "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 3:04 PM:

" I unfortunatly have to disagree with you here Pio (not that that's anything new). While i understand the economy is down, we have to look at what stimulates an economy. Thats jobs. we add jobs, that adds money to peoples pockets, which in turn puts money back inot the economy. Not to mention as was broke down earlier, the money that we can get put back into our economy from a boat (millions!!!), then i dont see that as a negative impact on an economy but rather a positive one. Not saying your wrong Pio, those are just my thoughts on it. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:57 PM:

" It looks like the discussion at the moment is on things for people to do. But I also noticed that ChristnLady pointed out the downturn in the economy is going to hamper the entertainment industry. Trustseeker has pointed out the financial problems facing the Isle of Capri.

Voting to allow a riverboat casino now, when that is basically an entertainment industry, would be a very unwise thing for this community to do. Councilman Kevin Brown decided to bring this issue up now for some reason. But I think all the economic indicators tell me his timing stinks.

We should not vote to bring an industry here that is on the verge of a downturn, or possibly in the midst of one. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:47 PM:

" We have the YMCA but with the cost too many cant afford to be members and they are cutting programs like gymnastics...we defently need things for families to do in our community...so while we are waiting let me invite everyone to the Powwow for the People at Boone County Fairgrounds over Memorial Day Weekend...or In June come on down to Eldon Fair Grounds for the Osage Powwow June 20-22 or need something for July come to the State Powwow held at Sedalia State fairgrounds weekend of 18-20...its a no alcohol no firearms type of thing and made for the family...so come join us "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:44 PM:

" i know it takes alot of money for planning and hosting events...we have the 4th of july celebration...look around we have lost alot of vendors...why because of the cost to just be there for the day...make it affordable and then more people will vend and more will buy...and not to scare anyone but the price on regular gas in California state is $4.99 have two cousins who came in within the last two days because of their father passing away...not only that but to take a flight cost them $900 each...cost of everything is going up but what we are getting paid isnt and 1 job isnt enough anymore for a house hold and sometimes 2-3 arent enough. We need the jobs... "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:41 PM:

" learning disabilities and for those kids I fight hard. Not just my own either. I also have to agree with the poster about the bowling alley...I think if we had a family oriented place to go to it would be a great start. Truthfully I would love to see a place to go that would be like a fun plex for families to take their kids...where there is everything from a drive in movie, bowling alley, arcade (old school style) place for up and rising local young bands to play...its nice that we can give prison tours but wouldnt it be great to use that building and land too...we dont hold any local powwows in our area, dont see much happening at all... "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:38 PM:

" boxergal thank you...i dont let that bother me about other forums...I only speak on what I feel strongly about as do most others. The thing I have learned over the years is that peoples views may not be that far different but in wording things people look at things different and are ready to jump without talking first. When it comes to my kids and kids in general I take a big stand. I feel 1 adult can make the difference whether it be in the life of 1 child or many. Its great hearing from parents who have that A student and think things dont need to change...the difference is I have an A student but I also have 2 that are struggling with.... "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:36 PM:

" Christnlady everything in life is a gamble but it is an adult decision to do something like go to the boats...if you make that decision and you are only taking funds that you usually use for entertainment then that is what it is entertainment...not everyone who goes is high roller with a problem infact most are not only a small percent have issues with it. Not much different then alcohol (and guess what Jesus gave wine to the people), not different then smoking which alot of people do and some cultures use sage to smoke and other things to smoke. I do believe if you do things that harm others or yourself its not good for you doesnt mean it doesnt work for someone else. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:55 PM:

" I don't think any business is coming to us anytime soon with the economy the way it is. With diesel going to $3.99 just today, and stocks down, especially the entertainment sector, which is always the first to go, it looks bleak. Companies aren't spending and expanding, they're trying to stay afloat. PS That money that goes to the charities, etc. comes from the losers at the gaming tables. I'd rather give freely to a charity, then be forced to pay every time i play. Why is everything always has to have things tied in to get it to pass the govternment test? "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:16 PM:

" My husband fishes too. Thats one reason we want to stay in MO, the Natural resources are wonderful. And NDN, I know people have given you a hard way to go in other forums but I have to tell you, I think you must be a very caring parent to do all of those things with your kids. My husband used to take my son fishing too until he grew up. And bowling. Anyway, you are right, it can get expensive but boy its great isn't it?? "

Easton wrote on Mar 20, 2008 12:30 PM:

" ndn, I always said that if I won the lottery or just had a big wad of investable income, I'd build another bowling alley in this town. A nice one that's not broke down all the time. Mine would also be no smoking. Not because I'm against smoking. I don't care. But I know that a lot of folks don't go bowling because of the atmosphere. A no smoking bowling alley would be a huge hit in this town. Too bad I'm not independently wealthy. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 12:21 PM:

" Personally I am for growth and jobs as well as entertainment in our area. Why is it to go and take the kids to a nice place that is family oriented for the night to dance I have to go all the way to Kingdom City...which I am willing to do because theres nothing to do...I have teenage children and to go to the movies cost $8-$8.50 a person for a family of 5 add that cost up then they want the popcorn and soda which cost $10 and you cant just get one...wonder why so many families dont go out. It would be great to see growth..(jobs and things to do) bowling alley...weekends are for leagues and they are talking about closing that... "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 12:17 PM:

" Easton great ideas with the hunting and fishing only problem with those that are without jobs they cant even do those things without income. It costs to get a hunting and fishing license, it cost to up keep guns and fishing supplies and poles...And before you think i am putting those things down Im not...Im a member of Ducks Unlimited & Waterfowlers Assoc. and my husband is on the board of the latter...we hunt year round as well as fishing...went trout fishing this last weekend. Great thing to get kids out to do...we also go camping too bad we have to drive so far to do alot of these things in our area with our children. Taking them to the MO River isnt always safe "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:45 AM:

" east,

i didnt say its not worth living in. i wouldnt be here if that was the case. However, i feel it could be even more worth it, if growth could occur. Again, i dont think the casino is the answer, i think it could be part of it. I would love to be able to take my girls on the weekend to a place like Bonkers or Chucky Cheese and not have to drive 35 mins to do so.

As for the convention center, i couldnt agree more. Once again, the capital of the state, and we have no place for these people to go and have a convention of any type. "

Easton wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:37 AM:

" Justin, apparently 50,000 people already think that Jeff City is a town worth living in. Just saying. I'm all about the convention center. I think it's a shame that organizations and associations that are HQ'd here in Jeff have to travel 30 minutes North or South to find a space big enough to hold a convention. It's a travesty.

boxergal, perhaps if they didn't fold up at 5pm, they'd have a larger customer base composed of more than just state workers. It's a vicious cycle but someone has to be willing to step outside the box and LEAD instead of follow. Preaching to the choir, I know. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:25 AM:

" Easton - the uptown area relies heavily on the state workers. I know, my co workers and I used to walk up and shop at noon. Thats probably why the streets fold up at 5:00. And yes, certain people should be ashamed at themselves for asking huge amounts of money for rent in those places. Like I said yesterday, my husband called an uptown business to find it no longer existed there but in another area. I am sure its the rent. But again, its the old guard that owns most of the uptown area. "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:24 AM:

" I agree easton, we do need growth, and thats why i want the casino so bad. its why i want the convention center too. If we bring in bigger businesses, than the other ones see what we are trying to do. they see we are trying to grow, and want to grow, and they move in as well. Next thing you know businesses are staying open later, the owners of this mall (who also own columbias mall), decide they can make money here too, and make some changes, and the next thing you know, we are no longer a stagnet little capital city, but one not only worth living in, but moving to as well! "

Easton wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:07 AM:

" Justin, while I agree with you to an extent regarding growth, I'm just not convinced that a casino is the answer. I know it's been mentioned already in this thread but look at our lousy excuse for a mall. Those folks should be ashamed of themselves. Another thing, a lot of our downtown businesses won't even stay open past 5pm. What's that all about? Another thing, we've got bunches of retail space that goes un-rented. Why? Not because people don't want it or need it. Because the owners' perceived value is WAY over-rated. My point? There are LOTS of answers to stimulating growth in the area, in my opinion. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:03 AM:

" Since I was "nailed" on another post reference this issue and in keeping with the on-line eds directions, I decided to go to the MO Gaming Reports and see where some of the State's Casino money goes.

FY 2007 Casino Admission Fees distributed to:

6 mil Veterans
4 mil National Guard
5 mil College Guarantee
27.5 mil Early Childhood Development
.3 mil Compulsive Gamblers Fund

TOTAL 42.8 Mil

Also:

Nearly 300 mil as State Portion of Gaming Tax Collections to Schools

Are these numbers for real or is the State "Cooking the Books?"
"

Boscoe wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:45 AM:

" Ford, GM, and Chrysler are all near bancruptsy too. Let's run the car dealerships out of town. We don't want those kind of businesses in Jeff City. "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:44 AM:

" and to add, while i have never been, and dont plan to ever be, a hunter, i understand you stating there are things to do. THis is true. I've tried to say before, but i think we need this for so many listed reasons beyond "something to do". Theres jobs, theres entertainment, theres GROWTH, which is more than anything a big deal. Im happy to know i can raise my family here safely, and i think, even with a massive amount of growth, that i could still do that. Crime is always an issue, which is why i feel if we raise our children the rigth way, it can easily be avoided. "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:40 AM:

" while i agree, that its never good to have a division of the city, its unfortunate, but at the same time, we need to be able to grow, and i think this is one way in which we can accomplish this. I know weve been over all the negatives, and all the positives to an ad nasseum level, so i wont bring those back up. But, as it is right now, i see no reason that tells me not to vote YES. "

Easton wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:38 AM:

" AMAZED, I don't consider being different than Columbia or the Lake a bad thing. I kinda like being insulated to a certain extent. But I guess that's just me. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:36 AM:

" Sounds like the fight for the Democrat nomination. I understand that some do not want a Casino here. I just dont understand why. I do know this area is very insulated from the rest of state, particualry the cities on either side, where this issue would hardly warrant a newspaper blip. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:33 AM:

" I agree Truthseeker & Easton: With so many other opportunities happening right now they had to bring the casino into the equation. BTW if this passes I won't hold it against anybody. "

Easton wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:27 AM:

" I agree with you. Why the counsel had to bring this back up is beyond me.

And yes, life in Jeff City is what you make it. Sure, there could be more opportunities. Lord knows I had a hard time finding a job when I was out of work starting in September and going until February. It was tough. But there HAS been growth and there will continue to be growth.

If you need something else to do on a Friday night...take up hunting or fishing. Works great for me. Nothing better than sitting on a river bank on a summer night! "

pioneers wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:25 AM:

" I'm with Truthseeker on the importance of looking at the direction that the Isle of Capri's stock is going. Why would JeffCity bank on an industry to provide us economic development when they are so vunerable.

The gaming industry depends on discretionary income and problem gamblers. In an economic downturn responsible gamblers will stop spending discretionary income. Problem gamblers will keep gambling.

This is not the type of industry that we should be trying to locate here to provide us with long term economic stimulus.

Online editor, thanks for the reminder to stay focused. I will try to do that. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:20 AM:

" Easton, you are correct. That is why I wish the city counsel would have brought something to the table that would not have caused this division in our city again. Many other things have been suggested by the community.
With that said, it is too darn nice outside to be sitting in front of a computer! I think I will go visit one of the parks or greenways in our fine city!
We will never be the city that everyone wants it to be because everyone has their own interests,never have the school that everyone wants(although my childs straight A's tell me that they(and us) must be doing something right)etc. Life in JC is what you make it.
"

Easton wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:06 AM:

" You people crack me up.

It's obvious that there is SO much animosity between the two sides that regardless of which side "wins" the community will never be unified.

It's sad, really. "

online_editor wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:02 AM:

" Recapping: According to one side, its opponents are scared of its superior reasoning. According to the other side, its opponents' facts are bogus. Each side accuses the other of not playing nice. According to both sides, there's no sense in continuing to argue about it so the other side should get off. Seems that all those points have been pretty well covered. Anyone have some new observations not accusatory of the other side? If so, let's focus on those. Thanks. --Rick Brown, online editor, News Tribune
"

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:02 AM:

" your last so many post have not been about why we need or dont need a casino, they've been attacks on the pro side, leaving us to have to attempt to defend ourselves, as you guys slander over and over again. Aside from Truth, not one of you is trying to have a decent debate, b/c your arguemetns are tired, and you dont know what else to do. "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:01 AM:

" well in the last 2 post of yours alone you decided the pro side is both liars and desprate. a decent point is made, you dont know how to respond, and as such we are all liars and desprate. Thats what im talking about. You've done it so much over these 700+ post, you dont even realise anymore.

Oh and then post like, "dont buy from walmart if you dont like it". ya that makes sense. That response, to a post that said ti was all made in china. well there have been year long studys done, and it is impossible thus far, to live without china made goods. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:57 AM:

" Justin: Please show me in any of my posts where I have called you any of the names you have used in your most recent rants? "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:48 AM:

" Truth, i appologize if i offended you. To be honest my annoyance is mainly directed toward city, who tells us we are all uneducated idiots, and Pio, whos Pious attitude of im better than you and this is why.

If you try to support your side with facts (as youve tried to do), then ive got no issue. ITs the side thats to busy acting like they are better than everyone on the proside, and tell us we are all just full of it, when we bring up a point that is most assuradly valid, when debating the "points" they aer trying to make. They dont know how to handle it, so they drop rude 1 liners. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:45 AM:

" Justin, I resent your comment that makes it seem like anyone who is against this has some group telling them what to say or do. I AM NOT a member of any such group, I personally do a lot of research and form my own opinions.
Could not the same be said of those for a casino? As they quote Mo Gaming and other pro gaming groups info?

This is FACT not an opinion of someone with for or aginst the casino, Capri stock is WAY DOWN and
" Associated Press, 3/13/2008
Legends Gaming LLC has filed for bankruptcy protection from its creditors. "
Why would this make me think a casino is good for JC? "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:41 AM:

" your absolutly right ndn. You see Pio, City, and the anticrew, they like to make things up that they think sound good. Then they pray that someone will see something that they've made up, and being like them, unable to think on their own, they will go "OMG JC is gong to parish." Didnt you guys here, if we get a casino, the Gambinos are gunna take over, and we will all have to wear bulletproof vest to avoid the constant drive bys. Oh and expect to be robbed my the masses that are addicted to the casino (even though they are all throughout missouri, but those are differant). "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:40 AM:

" CityGuy I only wish I was making the median income...that income comes from all jobs inside a home not one person...take a drive down HWY 50 or 54 to see those crumbling roads...go under the trilevel...might scare you to look up...I work for the state and I can tell you I am no where near the median income...so dont preach to me about those great paying jobs...they would have to come close to doubling my pay to get me there...dont try and fool those of us who really work and live in this area "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:36 AM:

" pioneers you said the kind of people who ride their bikes on the katy trail are the kind who want to come to jeff city not a casino...guess what I ride the katy trail and so does alot of my family and friends and some of them are part of jefferson citys bike club...and the biggest part is we all go to the casino in booneville from time to time. "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:32 AM:

" and on top of that, you guys allow yourselves to bring up all these random concequesces from addiction, to drive by shootings, to the mafia taking over JC, and we are all to blindly accept thats what would happen. But when we bring up alcohol, smoking, obesity, all we get are contrite rude response of "thats not what this is about". Ya well, its also not about drive bys, and its also not about how we are all gunna go to hell when a casino is built in JC. I will now happilly await your rude group mentality response (Pio, and City Specifically). at one pont Pio ACTED like an adult, now, shes run out of arguemnts. "

Justin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:29 AM:

" you can call the proside desprate all you want, but you guys just look a little more pious all the time. ALl yoru doing is judging, judging, judging. If we disagree with you then we are all idiots, rednecks, and addicts. But really, keep talking that way, b/c then, anyone with an education at all, is going to realise just how pious and rude you are, and they are going to decide to think for themselves. I know thats a tough concept for the anti-crowd who has their group telling them what to do , when to do, and how to act. Well, enjoy life as a lemming. ;) "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:29 AM:

" Boscoe - I believe you. Why, well compare your thoughtful posts and researched thoughts and posts, to those who are nailing you with frothing mouths and spittle spraying venom. AMAZING isn't it? The actions of those who preach morality to us. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:26 AM:

" Once more I will wearily explain. The statement regarding alcohol and cigarrette taxes was in response to pioneers post. I left off the "s" and you jumped on it, desparation I guess, to prove whatever it is you need to prove. As far as Wal-Mart, that to was a comparison to a goods and services post. Should you wish to support China that is your decision, although your support of the foreign trade store is admirable. (Casinos no, Wal-Mart, yes) And, last but not least, thank you for proving my point as to why you and the anti's are convincing me more than ever we need a Casino in Jeff City. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:54 AM:

" Amazed said: " So i guess pioneer supports acohol and cigarrette taxes but not casino taxes." Help me out here Amazed and tell me the time of the post where I said that. I've reviewed my posts and am having trouble finding it.

As for your claim that people shopping at WalMart end up with nothing, you're showing your "desparation" with that one. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:37 AM:

" Amazed if you don't like the products Walmart sells don't buy them. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:35 AM:

" Before sportsmom points out the typo again it should say latest not lastest. To put it in the words of Boxer I really dont care! (about the typo)
Funny someone would see the typo but not the sad numbers. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:30 AM:

" Yeah Boscoe we have potential and this is a great place. It's nice to hear that from you. But crumblng roads? Please. Low paying jobs? Really? Jeff City's median income is higher than Boonville, Columbia and Osage Beach. Cole County is 7th among Missouri counties in median hourly wages. Just keep saying it. Some one might believe you, but I hope not. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:30 AM:

" Oh by the way, last trade on Capri stock on NASD a couple of days ago was 7.24 and it is still hold. I just realized I hadnt posted the lastest number. Down from a 52 week high of 30.something? Hhmmmm.... "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:14 AM:

" So the new buildings didnt give jobs to the construction people who built them? Were there any new employees added by the state after the move?
Isnt the new federal court house a done deal? When will all the construction workers have jobs for that? Didnt I read this complex would also include resturants when finished? Just wondering...
"

boscoe wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:13 AM:

" Jefferson City has so much untapped opportunity and could be such a much better town for all. We have every reason to be such a nice wonderful community, with excellent location, rivers, highways, airports, state government, pretty landscape, natural treasures, hard-working people, colleges, universities, technical schools, health care, etc.
There is no reason we could not be the best in many things, but instead we have very low-paying jobs, no opportunity for our children, no one wants to be annexed, crumbling roads, low trust in government, escalating crime, drugs, rapes, and assaults.
I love this town but I want better for my family, my children, our legacy. I want growth, jobs, properity, good government services, low crime, better roads, jobs, etc. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:12 AM:

" By the way, when we go to Wal-Mart we come out with something made in China. That money then goes to China and we have an inferior product that breaks or dont work and we are left empty handed.. Sorta like shopping at a Casino aint it? "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:12 AM:

" Boscoe you said "I see a little clean up work latley" You have no idea what has been done over there. You haven't been following the progress closely. And you want to minimize the impact of what already has occured. The master developer is being chosen in May. That is when the private money will come. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:10 AM:

" So i guess pioneer supports acohol and cigarrette taxes but not casino taxes. Regardless, I have seen absolutely nothing posted here by the anti's that would make me change my mind about the positive impact of a casino. In fact, the more they post, the more they convince me that we actually need one here. If nothing else to change the population pool a bit. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:04 AM:

" Boscoe, That is a typical response from you. Nothing good ever happens in Jeff City. You just look at the negative side of everything. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:00 AM:

" "The clean up work on the site took months and hundreds of workers but you didn't notice"

I see a little clean up work recently, but most of the MSP site has not been touched since the prisoners were moved out. There are crumbling buildings, trash, weeds, and brush everywhere. It is truly an eyesore of blight on the east side of Jefferson City, including the Surplus Property junkyard. I don't know what cleanup you are talking about, because I still see an abandoned mess when I drive by it. The MSP redevelopment planning is just a dream of what COULD be there if we ever find willing investors, but in five years we only have two replacement state buildings. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:55 AM:

" "If you can't see the revenue stream that is coming from the MSP Redevelopment then you are not looking. Do you think those 2 buildings just suddenly appeared out of thin air."

Yes a couple of new buildings, but they didn't create any new jobs, they just moved these existing state jobs from other buildings that now sit vacant. No new employees were hired, other than the bus drivers for the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of shuttle buses, fuel, and pollution we taxpayers have to spend because they forgot to design proper employee parking lots.
"

truthseeker wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:52 AM:

" Here, is this better? Still says the same thing! Capri WAY DOWN!


" Kansas City star(Dec 7, 2007)
Capri laying off up to 20% of their headquarters in St. Louis workforce.
This article also states "The company's stock has been in free fall this year. It traded early today at $15.65, down almost 50 percent from a 52-week high of $30.50 a year ago."

It dropped from 15.65 on Dec 7 to 8.08 on March 3?
I would think that all this will eventually trickle down to Boonvilles casino wouldnt you?

"

truthseeker wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:50 AM:

" You can try to twist what I wrote about Capri stock last night all you want but all you have to do is look at any news source that lists the stock market and there it will be. It does not change the fact that Isle is not having a very good time. The fact is their stockholders have lost major money recently.

I am so sorry that I am not perfect and make a typo. Geez, lets check any newspaper any day of the week and see how many we find. And I dont get paid to not make a mistake. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:41 AM:

" SPORTSMOM! It is a typo! SORRY! It should say Dec 2007 and it is VERY ACCURATE! Check any listing of the stock market! "

boscoe wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:31 AM:

" " Boscoe You want the casino so bad that you have tunnel vision. You think that the one and only thing that can save Jeff City is a casino."


Wrong. Twisting again. I just want growth and opportunity for our town and our children. Casino is just another opportunity that we had and let slip through our fingers. I hate to keep seeing opportunities and jobs get away to other towns. A casino isn't the only option, but it is one that was a sure-thing until we ran the investors off. There aren't a whole lot of other "sure things" on the horizon that will provide significant private investment for our town. "

sportsmom wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:39 PM:

" A casino in Boonville has never stopped me from riding my bike on the Katy Trail. Its too far from Jefferson City, for my old legs, but I have managed it twice. "

sportsmom wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:35 PM:

" Truthseeker, its a little hard to accept your quotes regarding stocks on casinos as even close to reliable, considering the papers have not been published yet. I am pretty sure Kansas City's newspaper does not have an article lined out on the price of Isle's stock for December 2008, considering its what 8 months away? "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:25 PM:

" Boscoe You want the casino so bad that you have tunnel vision. You think that the one and only thing that can save Jeff City is a casino. If you can't see the revenue stream that is coming from the MSP Redevelopment then you are not looking. Do you think those 2 buildings just suddenly appeared out of thin air. People had to build them and that meant jobs and revenue. The clean up work on the site took months and hundreds of workers but you didn't even notice that. I know it doesn't count becuase it wasn't a casino. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:24 PM:

" Oh my my. Brother Boscoe, I am so incredibly sorry for calling you anti-gambling.

You know, I haven't seen Brother Boscoe post anything since I made that horrific mistake. I wonder if he read that and it just did him in? He seems pretty fragile to me. Gosh, I'd hate to think that anything I wrote caused him ill. I treasure his taunting "you're a chicken little you're a chicken little you're a chicken little" posts. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:23 PM:

" They don't want to go to Boonville because of the casino? I wouldn't give it a second thought. Couldn't be any worse than the old haunted looking house down by Steedman on the trail. I just can't see biking bringing in that much revenue, but maybe it would. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:19 PM:

" Oops, I spoke too soon. I'm back.

Boxergal, I was riding the Katy Trail last summer and met a group of people from New England who were riding the trail. They arranged with one of the hotels in town to be picked up (bikes and all) by the hotel van and taken to JeffCity for the night. I believe there are probably others who do the same. I've also read in the paper that Boonville is having trouble getting people who ride the Katy Trail in their area to want to stop in Boonville.

The kind of people who ride the trail want to come to a city like JeffCity, but they are not attracted to a riverboat casino. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:10 PM:

" May I ask you something Pio....what revenue does a biking trail bring in? I bike all of the time in the spring and there are people on it but not that many to bring in revenue to JC. They fly by me on their way to Hermann. And the Tour of MO can be seen by standing on the side of a lot of roads in MO. Besides that its a once a year thing. I am not sure I understand what those two things will do as far as revenue coming in on a continual basis. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:09 PM:

" Well, looks like the only anti-gambling person on duty tonight is Brother Boscoe. And as soon as his caretakers realize he's missing he won't be on here either.

MP, you can call the above desparate if you wish. But people don't laugh at desparation, and there are people who will read the above and laugh.

And to those people I say good night. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:58 PM:

" What happens at a companys headquarters will almost always trickle down, in this case to its casinos. "

JCkat wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:55 PM:

" boscoe

I have got a kick out of your recent posts. Direct and to the point. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:55 PM:

" We are not talking about a casino headquarters. We are talking about a casino. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:53 PM:

" that should have said Capri is laying off 20 percent of their headquarters in St Louis work force.


Sorry CityGuy, I didnt mean to spoil your plans! ;o) "

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:52 PM:

" MSP has been empty for five years, and they have known for years beforehand that it would be empty. It took them five years just to start cleaning up one little corner of the property. That place has been a vacant eyesore for five years. How long will it take to be fully-developed-- 30 years or more? "

JCkat wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:49 PM:

" pioneers,
I welcome all of that, and a casino, in my view it would be just one more thing. As far as I know the MSP plan so far has produced only the new federal courthouse and I went by there and I noticed some people working so something maybe is happening finally. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:49 PM:

" From the figures I just posted I think that a casino in the future is also a pipedream. Those figures dont look so good for the casino business in MO. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:49 PM:

" "A lot of other ideas are not even on the drawing board yet. But that doesn't mean they won't happen. Everyone reading this forum should take the time to share their ideas for improving our community with their city councilman or county commissioner. "

Poo in one hand, put ideas in the other. See which one fills up faster.

IDEAS are not economic development. IDEAS are not jobs. IDEAS don't restart the street overlay program. IDEAS don't get us better police and fire protection or water runoff management.

Sure, we also want other things for growth, but waiting and wishing doesn't get us anywhere. Private investment for a casino does help move us forward. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:47 PM:

" Kansas City star(Dec 7, 2008)
Capri laying off up to 205 of their headquarters in St. Louis workforce.
This article also states "The company's stock has been in free fall this year. It traded early today at $15.65, down almost 50 percent from a 52-week high of $30.50 a year ago."

It dropped from 15.65 on Dec 7 to 8.08 on March 3?
I would think that all this will eventually trickle down to Boonvilles casino wouldnt you?

"

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:45 PM:

" "MSP Redevelopment
conference center on W.McCarty
greenway along the river
get a bike/walking bridge over the river
The Tour of Missouri Bike Race is returning"

Very few jobs for residents.
Very little tax money created.
Very little added value.
All are pipe dreams that have been discussed for years. "

hasher28 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:44 PM:

" pioneers, ever been to a movie, a ball game or a concert? Probably left empty handed, spent money had a good time, but left empty handed. Unless you bought some trinket which are probably available at a casino. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:41 PM:

" JCKats I know there is a perception that the great ideas JeffCity is working on don't have a chance. I think the reality is different. The MSP Redevelopment is happening. JeffCity probably will get a conference center on W.McCarty. The plans to develop the greenway along the river and get a bike/walking bridge over the river is moving. The Tour of Missouri Bike Race is returning for a second year to JeffCity and could become a yearly event.

A lot of other ideas are not even on the drawing board yet. But that doesn't mean they won't happen. Everyone reading this forum should take the time to share their ideas for improving our community with their city councilman or county commissioner. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:41 PM:

" "we are not voting on Mcdonald. We are voting on a casino. Continually changing to the other issues is desperate. It's not working."

We are talking about a casino coming to Jefferson City and giving us some entertainment, jobs, growth, revenue, and helping to improve our city. Continually changing to bring up issues that Boonville does not have and that have no basis in fact is desperate. It's not working. "

JCkat wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:39 PM:

" pioneers
In my previous comment comparing walmart to a casino I wasn't refering to sevices rendered but about taxes and how the wealth is dispersed. A casino and walmart do little in reality to help out us little people. Both a casino and walmart pay taxes, they employee people, they create jobs, they provide a service, they take in money and then the profit goes to what ever city the home office is and the CEO'S get rich. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:39 PM:

" Boscoe, we are not voting on liquor stores we are voting on casinos. Changing the topic to liquor is desperate. It's not working. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:37 PM:

" Boscoe we are not voting on Mcdonald. We are voting on a casino. Continually changing to the other issues is desperate. It's not working. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:37 PM:

" "much of the profits from a casino is from a small percentage of their patrons, the problem gamblers"

Much of the profits of the liquor store is from a small percentage of their patrons, the alcoholics. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:35 PM:

" Boscoe: What you are not understanding is that much of the profits from a casino is from a small percentage of their patrons, the problem gamblers. They cater to them to make sure they keep coming back to lose their money time after time and day after day. If the casino was ehtical and harmless they would cut them off much sooner. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:35 PM:

" "But that is what happens when you walk out of a casino, empty hands, empty pockets"

I walked out of Oak Hills Golf Course with nothing. Empty hands, empty pockets, empty ball bag. Ban the golf courses too. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:34 PM:

" cont,


"...Worst lowered Isle's rating to Hold' from 'Buy' and cut his 2008 forecast to a loss of 94 cents per share from a loss of 80 cents per share on lower-than-expected third-quarter gaming revenue at most casinos...Č

"

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:33 PM:

" Isle of Capri shares slip
3 March 2008


NEW YORK -- As reported by the Associated Press:"Shares of Isle of Capri Casinos Inc. slumped to a multi-year low Monday as an analyst downgraded the casino operator, citing economic concerns and a possible Iowa smoking ban.

"Ryan Worst of Brean Murray, Carret & Co. expects the St. Louis-based company will continue to look to lower costs, but believes sales growth will be harder to achieve in the next few quarters, which will likely keep the stock from rising much.

"

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:31 PM:

" Oh my, they are getting desparate.

Enabling: The city grants a business license for McDonalds to operate here. People go to McDonalds and eat burgers and fries, get fat, have coronary artery disease, and have heart attacks and strokes. The city serves as an enabler for all the gluttons in this town. City also collects sales tax money on the glutton's addiction. City builds streets on the backs of the poor gluttons.

Vote YES YES! "

JCkat wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:29 PM:

" pioneers
I am kind of mixed about a casino. I think it has disadvantages and advantages. I can't say I understand all the numbers thrown around in here and some of the bashing. I am not out to upset or hurt anyone. I just don't see at as bad as some claim. It will not save our city, but I can't see it destroying it either. I look at it as 1 possible thing to enhance our city. It may never happen, but some of the other ideas that have been mentioned, while very good, seem to have no chance. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:28 PM:

" I don't know what WalMart you guys are going to, when you compare a casino coming to town as the same as WalMart coming to town.

When I go to WalMart I give them money, they give me a product. It is a completely different scenario than a casino. We give WalMart money, in exchange we receive food, clothing, cleaning supplies, vitamins and all the other stuff we buy from them. You do not walk out of WalMart with nothing in your hands and nothing in your pockets. But that is what happens when you walk out of a casino, empty hands, empty pockets. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:28 PM:

" Darn it truthseeker! I was saving that for when the pro casino crowd started bragging how great the Isle of Capri is as a company. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:26 PM:

" Mp6500: I'd like to hear it in your own eloquent words. Unless you are also posting as Boscoe I'd like to see what you have to say. Show us all what an ethical man with integrity has to say about it. Get it off your chest. Come on, it will set you free... "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:24 PM:

" Kansas City Star (first part of March 2008)
Isles of Capri CEO steps down(will remain chairman).
The article states that Isle shares hit 52 week low Tues. trading closed at 8.08. A year ago shares were trading as high as 28.24 "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:22 PM:

" We have not discussed the enabling factor on this forum.

Example: An alocoholic tells his wife to go buy his beer. She has to decide to put up with his anger and abuse now if she doesn't buy his beer, or buy his beer and hope he passes out before he starts physically abusing her. She buys the beer. She is enabling him. When she gets the courage to leave him and stop enabling him, he has the beginning of an opportunity to hit rock bottom and maybe figure out he has a problem.

JeffCity needs to refuse to be an enabler. We should not encourage problem gambling by having a casino here; or become addicted to casino money paving our streets. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:21 PM:

" Associated Press, 3/13/2008
Legends Gaming LLC has filed for bankruptcy protection from its creditors. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:20 PM:

" Boscoe if that is how you justify your position that is fine. You accept the bad part of gambling and don't have a problem with it. But it is not harmless entertainment for evryone.

I am not saying that the whole community will fall apart. Those are your words, not mine. But that is typical for the pro casino crowd. You twist what we say.

No matter what the final outcome is on this issue I will know why I chose to vote no and can live with that. I won't have helped the city build the streets on the misfortune of others. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:08 PM:

" Pioneers, don't go to a casino if you don't think it is worth the cost to go.

Please don't spoil the fun or this town for the rest of us. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:07 PM:

" OK, I'll type very slow for Cityguy so he can try to get it this time:

Casino is just some entertainment for adults. No more, no less. No one is forced to go or spend a dime. It is all voluntary. Chicken Little makes it sound like the entire community will come down with leprosy if we get a casino!

A lack of personal responsibility of consenting adults who voluntarily go to the casino is not an acceptable reason to ban casinos. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:05 PM:

" JCKats you have helped illustrate a main issue in the debate about bringing a casino to JeffCity.

You said: "With the price of gas so high who wants to have to drive anywhere to have some fun, or get something you can't buy here. "

I don't believe the entertainment value of a casino is worth the cost of a casino. Read the letter to the editor in tonight's paper to get an idea of the amount of money that pours out of mid-Missouri thanks to the Isle of Capri in Boonville. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Casinos also hurts people...families, employers and others associated to problem gamblers. "

JCkat wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:54 PM:

" A casino creates jobs for common people too and they have to be trained just like a cashier or other job at walmart or any other place would have to be. Yes it is a different job but they would still need training, how many out of work card dealers, or whatever, are there? There would be a need for IT people, security, and others as well. The better jobs like IT would require college education, or a huge amount of computer knowledge, so they would get a good paying job. How is that a bad thing? "

JCkat wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:37 PM:

" areunuts
Did it ever occur to you that some of us don't like driving to Columbia, the Lake, or anyplace else to have something to do? By the way Columbia has no casino. With the price of gas so high who wants to have to drive anywhere to have some fun, or get something you can't buy here. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:36 PM:

" Wal-mart creates jobs for common people, with a casino you have to have special people trained to run the tables and the other games a lot of the jobs you have to have a background in it so does it really create that many normal jobs for every day people? "

JCkat wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:26 PM:

" Quinn what you say is true but it also true of any business. Walmart doesn't do much but save people a few bucks while shopping so the average citizen doesn't get much out of Walmart. Walmart does pay taxes to JC just as a casino would. Government gets the money from walmart the same as a casino or any other business will. But walmart does create jobs the same way a casino will. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:25 PM:

" All of you pro casino people want to divert from the issue by constantly talking about alcohol, tobacco and obesity. The issue on the ballot is gambling. I don't think you really want to have a discussion about it because when we get down to the hard realities of gambling the other stuff comes out. You need to ask yourselves why you are avoiding the hard questions. I believe you are all good people but you are in denial of the real impact gambling has on lives. Those lives are not just acceptable collateral damage without a name or face. You have the power with your vote to make a difference. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:17 PM:

" and I am not talking about just casino's I am talking about huge convention centers or strip clubs, or juice bars you start bringing those type of things to this town the crime will go up. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:14 PM:

" if you want excitment go to one of those towns and leave this one alone, people like it the way it is which is why it has not changed much over the years..it is not that we are in fear of change it is that we want a small quiet town to raise our kids and the more you bring in the worse it gets and I don't care what anyone says it is true. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:12 PM:

" I will say this one last time so please listen to me and stop twisting what I say, I never once said bringing a casino to this town would cause drive by shootings what I said is that I do NOT want to see this town grow into another Columbia, the more stuff you bring to this town like the more crime you bring that is a proven fact, how many big cities have you seen that have really low crime rates? That is what I am trying to say, Jefferson City is a great town just the way it is, it is small and no we don't have much to do but Columbia, The Lake, St Louis, KC are all pretty close "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:10 PM:

" Amazed: I don't support government taxing alcohol or tobacco. Like gambling they destroy lives. But they are not going away because our government is addicted to the taxes they get from them. One difference between casinos and the other 2 is that I get to vote on the casino. Oh BTW I've never bought a lottery ticket.

Now I would like to have MP6500 answer my question. Agreeing with Boscoe was not an answer. I take no direct response from MP6500 as an "I can't justify it" "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:02 PM:

" Amen quinn! I agree, what a point you make. "

JCkat wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:31 PM:

" This will create jobs. No question about that. As far as local business if they lose an employee due to higher pay at the casino they will be replaced by someone else who agrees to that pay. JC draws in a few thousand people a day from the local towns, and many of them work here. A casino would be 1 thing of many that could be good for us. There are several ideas mentioned that sound good to me as well but none of them are an option now for one reason or another. This is ONE thing that IS an option and it could help create jobs and stimulate possible growth. "

quinn wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:30 PM:

" I am amazed with Jefferson Citians who see Boonville as the Crown Jewel of the state. If you want to be like Boonville just take a short trip and take a good look. I guess the word "REVITALIZED" means repaired side walks and newly surfaced streets for the same old depressed businesses and vacant buildings downtown. There is NO new industry and retailers will tell you that hardly anyone traveling to the casino shops in Boonville. Those few who do buy cheap trinkets. The city government has more money to spend but the average citizen has virtually nothing to show from Isle of Capri. Government gets the money, not the people. "

sportsmom wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:29 PM:

" OMG my eyes hurt! Okay, show of hands people, how many have you have ever bought a Powerball ticket? Be honest, that means you, the one who preaches about liquid sin and gambling, right up until the Powerball hits $100 million...then all of the sudden your morals fly right out the window. Do you honestly call that different?

Should we abolish alcohol and tobacco sales while we are at it? I mean really, if we are going to legislate morality and not let people decide if they can go to a casino and control themselves, we might as well take away all of their opportunities to turn into an addict of any shape or form.

"

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:25 PM:

" Amazed why do pro gambling people try to hide behind the existance of alcohol and cigarettes abuse? You need to stay focused on casino gambling. Alcohol and smoking are not on the April 8 ballot.

I'm looking forward to hearing MP6500's answer to that question. It was directed to him.

"

AMAZED wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:55 PM:

" CG just wont answer the tough questions will he? "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:50 PM:

" CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 5:31 PM:

" MP6500: Since you are an ethical person with integrity, tell me how you justify your support of a casino that profits from the addiciton and misery of your fellow man. And then tell me how you justify your support of our city government benefitting from those profits. "

So CG what is your your stand on the support of alcohol and cigarette sales which profit from the addiction and misery of your fellow man and how do you justify the support of our city government benefiting from those tax profits?

I'll be I'd be AMAZED at the answer. "

justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:46 PM:

" ok let me get this straight city. we are in a forum, discussing for or against casino. The comment is made by an anti person that they dont want to have to worry about raising kids in a place with drive by shootings and so dont want a casino.

Its called addition City. 2 + 2 = 4. "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:38 PM:

" boscoe,

All I can say is I agree 100%!

Thanks!!!! "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 6:39 PM:

" I hear desperation in some of the posters, pro or con. It's sad that some really feel the need for a casino, or need the chance to get a win at the slots. (No i'm not picking on anyone). I understand things are bad with the economy, they are bad all across the US, and sure to get worse because of Oil & Gas, and NAFTA impacts. i just really wish we could come together to find other alternatives that we could all be proud of, that would fill the bill on entertainment as well as jobs. Wouldn't that be nice? I'd like to see us start to work together, instead of apart. Thanks. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 6:19 PM:

" And by the way, I am about as nice as they come. Honest, but nice. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 6:16 PM:

" You have the same writing style as someone else that used to come in here. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 6:15 PM:

" Areunuts - Would you lighten up, I am kidding. However, I fully expected them to say "yer not from these parts are ya?" (kidding, just kidding) "

boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 5:41 PM:

" "...how you justify your support of a casino that profits from the addiciton and misery of your fellow man. And then tell me how you justify your support of our city government benefitting from those profits."

Are you talking about income tax on people who have to work? :-)

Maybe you are talking about liquor stores and cigarettes?

Casino is just some entertainment for adults. No more, no less. No one is forced to go or spend a dime. It is all voluntary. Chicken Little makes it sound like the entire community will come down with leprosy if we get a casino! "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 5:31 PM:

" MP6500: Since you are an ethical person with integrity, tell me how you justify your support of a casino that profits from the addiciton and misery of your fellow man. And then tell me how you justify your support of our city government benefitting from those profits. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:55 PM:

" Justin: "Huge # of addicts"? I don't think "huge" was ever used. I think we all agree the # is small but we don't agree on how small. And the casino makes most of their profits from a small # of people. I don't want this city built on addicts no matter what the #.

Areunuts made a statement in one of his posts that he is glad he is raising his children in a place where he didn't have to worry about drive by shootings and didn't mention a casino. You either read way too much into it or you are doing what you acuse me of doing.... Twisting people's word. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:38 PM:

" Boxergal said "Unfortunately, the welcome wagon didn't greet me when I moved here, I was treated like I had a disease for some reason" if you spoke to people the way you do in here then I see why people did not welcome you, when you a around calling the entire town "witless hillbilly" what do you expect? People treat you the way you treat them, maybe if you were a little more mature and nice to people you would have had a better welcome, something to think about when you move away from this horrible city. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:33 PM:

" Easton: You are correct. A casino is a tax on the people and some pay a lot more in tax than others. For most it is a small tax and there is no harm. For those with a gambling problem it's a huge tax, and it affects families. The casinos have built their profits on those people. And they are very, very good at exploiting them. I don't want to build this city by exploiting them too. "

Easton wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:32 PM:

" mp, that is true. That's why I specifically referred to the revenue that would be generated from locals. I concede to the fact that out of town money would, indeed, make its way to JC.

Another reason that I might not necessarily welcome the casino is because of the carnival atmosphere that inevitably follows. The casino off of 70 near St. Charles is a perfect example. It looks like the circus has come to town.....to stay! HA! I wouldn't be as opposed to the idea if the proposed casino wouldn't be in close proximity to down town. I think it would be an eye sore.

Again, just some thoughts. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:30 PM:

" so im at work, listening to internet radio, and working away, when i see the name of the song that just came on. its called "what about everything". that could totally be the theme song for the anti-side.

Really it could!! What about crime, What about sinners, What about addiction, What about what about what about.... Its perfect guys. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:28 PM:

" And Amen on that Waldo. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:27 PM:

" right city, "Thereis no guarantee". however, theres also no gurantee that it wont provide good long lasting jobs. Theres no guarentee it will provide a huge number of addicts, cause drive by shootings, the mafia to take over in JC, or ruin our town as we know it. Funny thing is those are all arguements the anti crowd keeps using. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:27 PM:

" Easton - you do have a stake in this, as do I. Its literally going to be in my backyard, as I live north of the river. too bad we weren't included. I am out on it too but sure would like to see more job opportunities and higher pay here for the future generations. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:23 PM:

" MP6500: You just sound like sour grapes to me. What you are frustrated about is that the complete story gets told and not the one sided story you want to tell. "

Waldo wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:22 PM:

" I am a JC native. I've watched our community get the short end of the stick one too many times. We could have had a convention center 20 years ago but the powers to be decided a different course of action and it has left JC lagging behind other communities. With the current economy who knows what's going to happen. Even little old JC has seen an impact. Look at our manufacturing base from 20 years ago to now - Maytag out, others moving out production lines. JC lost 1,000's of jobs. A business that will creat decent jobs, add tax revenues, bring tourists to our town and gives us an attraction is a win-win.
"

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:22 PM:

" Easton,

Welcome to the discussion. I understand what you are meaning. I agree that a portion of the money the casino brings in will be from individuals in Jefferson City, just like in Boonville. But, I also believe that a lot of revenue that Boonville receives comes from individuals that reside outside the close proximity of the casino. I know on vacation, we have stopped at a town specifically to check out the casino. Had it not been there, we would not have eaten at the restaurant or shopped at the mom and pop stores. So, I do believe people will spend money here that wouldn’t normally come to JC to shop. Very good comment though.
"

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:19 PM:

" Boxergal: Yeah, this is great fun!!

Justin: I don't think anybody is disputing that 600 jobs wouldn't be good for Jeff City. What has been shown by Grinols is that a casino, many times in the long run, takes away from the job market. Thereis no guarantee a casino will result in a net job gain for Jeff City residents.

MP6500: I've never disputed that the city will get lots of money from a casino. I have chosen not to support it becasue it profits from the weak and addicted. No matter what the number is. A casino preys on the addicted and extracts as much as they can. "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:13 PM:

" Justin,

I know it is frustrating. But, some here will go to any lengths to push their anti-casino cause. I am a Christian and I was always raised that people should tell the truth and be responsible for their words. Even if they lie about what I have said, in the end, I know that I did my best to remain ethical. It really all comes down to integrity; some on both sides of the issue have it, others do not.

Yes, I can not think of a single reason adding new legal ligit decent paying jobs to our local economy is a bad thing. I doubt they do either, they just want to argue.

Best regards.
"

Easton wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:10 PM:

" The only difference is it would be funneled (in the way of taxes) to the government.

There is the advantage of job creation. Like I said, I'm torn on the issue. "

Easton wrote on Mar 19, 2008 4:09 PM:

" I've been watching this unfold and had to register to comment. I'm torn on the issue. I don't live in the city limits so I guess it really doesn't matter what I think, unfortunately.

However. I keep hearing over and over again about the monetary benefits of having a casino. Do you folks realize that the money doesn't come from the casino? It doesn't come from the politicians. It doesn't come from special interest groups. It comes straight from the pockets of the folks that spend the money there!

Any revenues that the casino would generate from local patrons is ALREADY IN THE COMMUNITY! "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:53 PM:

" i understand that MP, but still it gets very frustrating. I feel like im watching a meet the press where the motirators (sp) only want a certain answer, and if they dont get it, they reword and try again.

Sometimes people need to admit when they are wrong. NO ONE will ever convence me that adding 600+ legal ligit decent paying jobs to our local economy is a bad thing. just not gunna happen. I better be careful talking to pio like this, her husband might decide im "over compensating". Nope, the anti crowd isnt rude at all. "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:52 PM:

" "The town of 8,000 people [Boonville] derived almost $4 million from the casino in 2007. The town has been able to build a new police station and buy patrol cars. Town leaders are looking at ways to improve the fire service. They also want to construct a water tower. “The problem is, with such a sudden influx of money, you want to spend it on various things to improve the city,” Painter said. “You want to do everything all at once.” (New Tribune)

I would love to see a new police station, patrol cars, new fire trucks, better streets. Jefferson City should have the same opportunity? That is why I am voting YES and YES on April 8th.

"

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:42 PM:

" Justin,

You said “I asked, and then you twisted my question and answered in a way you choose.” That is a sign of desperation or selective reading. It just shows how unethically far some people will go to skew the discussion. They are unable to react to opinions that differ from their own, so they will go to any length to further their Anti-Casino cause. It is sad because so many people here on both sides just want to have an honest discussion. The freedom to vote did not come free. -- April 8th --
"

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:42 PM:

" Wait Justin, I was just kidding. I live across the river, remember? Now do you understand? Kidding. And I do have a stake in this, too bad we can't vote. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:39 PM:

" Hey City and Pio - I think we would get along more than you realize. And City - glad you laughed about the house dumping on a hillbilly. This forum has turned into quite the entertainment, hasn't it? "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:36 PM:

" Oh, it did more for me than you will ever know. Let see now, I have an open mind and a little culture. Let me know when the school is "redone". "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:34 PM:

" Actually there are lots of good people here. Lots. Unfortunately, the welcome wagon didn't greet me when I moved here, I was treated like I had a disease for some reason. Really odd behavior. And do they still say...I am going to get my HAIRS cut here? I am just pulling your leg, there are some fine, fine people here. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:32 PM:

" intice, is that right??? ah, who cares. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:31 PM:

" I can see the billboard now....Jefferson City, like it or move. Yep, that will intice plenty of companies. Too funny. "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:30 PM:

" You guys are too funny. Come on everyone, lets get back on focus before Rick starts zapping posts with the click of his mighty finger.

8-)
"

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:25 PM:

" where exactly did is ay you were wrong?? i said explain to me. i asked a questions, and apparently your reading comprehension kept you from reading it correctly. I asked, and then you twisted my question and answered in a way you choose.

FActs are facts. you add 600+ jobs, and people get them, adn what happens... unemployment changes? why b/c either people got those jobs that didnt have jobs before, or they got them, freed up their old jobs, and someone else took them. No matter what the industry (as long as its legal), when you add jobs, you help the economy. PERIOD!. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:04 PM:

" Justin just because you don't like my answer does not mean I didn't answer your question. I will continue to bring gambling and casinos into my answers because that is what this is all about.

Oh, and everyone watch out, Brother Boscoe is on the loose again. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:03 PM:

" ok areou, if i misunderstood, then im sorry but when you make a statement like "Actually just one more thing, if wanting to raise my children in a town where they can play out side and not have to worry about drive by shootings makes me a "witless hillbilly" then I guess I am and I am proud of that because my kids will know what is like to live in a community where you don't have to fear your life just by walking down the street. in a discussion about bringing a casion to town, im not sure how anyone would get the idea otherwise, then that you think casinos = drive bys. "

hillbillyhousewife wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:56 PM:

" Ditto-areunuts, I agree with that. I want to live where my kids can grow up safely. Also, boxergal, labeling the whole town full of people as "gossip mongering, church running (to ask forgiveness and do it again), small minded people in my life" seems pretty small-minded to me. Just because you have had bad experiences with certain people does not mean everyone is like that. There are plenty of really GOOD people here in Jeff City. Now maybe everyone can stop attacking each other and get back to the topic of discussion.LOL. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:55 PM:

" Boxer: you're now attacking JeffCity High School. You said: "I came from an area that had LOTS of schools that would make this one look ill." You just told everyone who has worked on improving our schools in so many ways that it was all for nothing. Old Boxergal doesn't approve.

Give me strength.

This community is trying to improve our schools, we are building a new elementary school.

When I was growing up the school buildings were much much worse. But I got an excellent education. You went to schools that were much much better. Doesn't appear to have done much for you. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:54 PM:

" and just an FYI, I do not feel casinos are bad they are actually pretty fun from time to time but I do not want want in my town, never said casinos lead to crime and drive by shootings but the more a town grows the more crime comes into them and that is a fact. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:52 PM:

" never once said casinos lead to drive by shootings please do not put words in my mouth, and Boscoe if your so sick of us "Backwards hicks" voting no on everything then go to a place where they are voting yes, go to St Louis or KC or even Columbia and let us "backwards hicks" have the nice quit life we came here for. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:51 PM:

" i also asked pio, that you leaving gambling and casinos out of it. my question is how adding that number of jobs is a bad thing for any community anywhere. i dont need yo9ur constant statements that "gambling is bad mmmmkay!!" I know how you feel about it, and i know thats not going to change.

This is specifically why i asked it be left out. all i asked is if that number of jobs is added, HOW is it bad?? "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:48 PM:

" So what that some of the 600-800 jobs that a casino would bring to Jefferson City are upper management jobs? Those people still have to live somewhere and buy groceries, cars, and spend their money. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:48 PM:

" i mean come on people, really, we are resorting to arguements that if JC ends up with a casino, we end up with drive bys?? is that really what the anti-crowd has resorted to.

I talked about peopel being afraid of life, and im pretty sure that takes my statement to a whole new meaning. LIke i said before, careful sitting down to go to the bathroom, you might flush the toilet, fall in, and DROWN!!!! (rediculous fears are pretty silly huh)???

and yoru right pio, but what i can gurantee is that peopel within driving distance are going to get those jobs, and anyway its broke down, its 600+ new jobs in our community. again, wheres the negative? "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:46 PM:

" I'm sick of you backwards hicks voting "no" to every opportunity for MY CITY to grow. I am fifth-generation Cole Countian and I am sick of how my city is held back and how it has so much potential that will probably never be fulfilled. People in my city deserve jobs, entertainment, and good infrastructure. I am sick of the few pious OLD GUARD running all the progress and growth out of my city.

Vote YES YES!!! "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:44 PM:

" Justin, you said: ..."Explain this to me then if you dont mind. I'm asking this in the politest way possible. If we add 6 - 800 jobs to the community (i dont care what kind, weather it be casino, a grocery store, a factory, any sort of LEGAL job market), then tell me, in what way is this a negative to the unemployment numbers?" "

You cannot guarantee that 600 unemployed JeffCity residents will get those jobs. You cannot even guarantee that 600 Cole Countians will get those jobs. Bringing jobs here is always good. But bringing casino gambling here to do it is not good. Gambling as an industry is bad for a community. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:39 PM:

" casinos lead to drive by shootings huh??? wow, i wondered what turned boonville into that drive by crime mecca that it is......whats that? crime is down since the casino...... oh ok, sorry Mr. Reality, i guess some people on here hadnt checked in with you lately. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:28 PM:

" Actually just one more thing, if wanting to raise my children in a town where they can play out side and not have to worry about drive by shootings makes me a "witless hillbilly" then I guess I am and I am proud of that because my kids will know what is like to live in a community where you don't have to fear your life just by walking down the street. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:28 PM:

" MP: Thanks for the lesson. I guess we should just turn the MO economy into an all gambling economy. Then we would have zero unemployment.

Seriously though, you use the numbers to show how many are employed but you ignore the stats from Grinols study that show many times there is a NET job loss 42% of the time and most of the time there is no net gain at all. Your numbers only tell one side of it.

"

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:25 PM:

" Your welcome CityGuy, I love this town and certain people seem to have a problem with that and that is fine but I will take the high road and not resort to name calling, that is something a 5 year old does not someone who is retired. Have a nice day all. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:21 PM:

" Name calling, now that is mature. "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:16 PM:

" CityGuy,

You said “And you are now trying to say that Gambling is the reason we don't have a worse economy in MO.” Yes! You obviously have little economics/business background because if you remove 10,000 jobs (the number of casino employs) form the job pool, the economy of the state would be worse. 10,000 people without jobs = 10,000 less paying taxes, buying goods/services. Oh, and 10,000 people on unemployment/welfare/food pantries….
"

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:15 PM:

" Thank you for your support pio and areunuts.

Boxer: I got a big laugh out of the "dump this property on some witless hillbilly" Now that was funny!! "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:12 PM:

" woah boxer, i know your not happy hear, but while i most def want growth and change, im not going anywhere if we dont get the casino, and i certainly wouldnt call myself a "witless hillibilly". Careful how you word things, you'll take the people on your side, and make us feel a bit ousted too. ;) "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:10 PM:

" On the road again....just can't wait to get on the road again..... "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:04 PM:

" And don't concern yourself with it areunuts...I already own property elsewhere and go there. I am just waiting to unload this home on some witless hillbilly. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:58 PM:

" Why is religion always brought into these conversations?

If you hate it that badly Boxergal then you know where the highway is to lead you to a better place, I don't think anyone is stopping you are they? "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:56 PM:

" Oh spare me Pio.. spare me. I came from an area that had LOTS of schools that would make this one look ill. I even attended a public prep school in my district. Backwoods, thats what this place is and will always be if things don't change. Glad you are so proud, cause as an outsider, I do not see it all. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:55 PM:

" it is a simple solution and I didn't go to a forum and complain about it 24/7 and force the city to change just because I didn't like it. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:54 PM:

" And as for the Job situation if you can't find one in your town then go to another town, do you realize how many people drive in to Jeff City every day to work because the town they live in has no jobs? There are a ton of jobs in Jefferson City..they may not be the dream jobs you may want but there are jobs.

And ndnlvngcherokee I did not tell anyone to leave if there ideas were not the same as mine, please re-read my posts, I simply stated if you don't like this boring town then go to a more exciting one, I did not like Columbia and the crime so I moved to Jeff to raise my family "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:52 PM:

" By the way.....one more thing. I did pay plenty of taxes in Cole during my years there. Enough to build Lawson (which I still pay on by the way, HS does) and keep that ungodly mess of a building that you call a high school going. (with good teachers, I might add). If you want an earful, I will give it to you. I have never in my life seen such a mess of gossip mongering, church running (to ask forgiveness and do it again), small minded people in my life. I hated it when I moved here and know others that are from other areas that feel the same. I am not alone. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:49 PM:

" Your right Justin I can and will move if this city turns in to another Columbia, but what I won't do is sit and complain about it 24/7 like some people do. But whats to say people like you won't move into these smaller towns like California, Tipton and demand things change just like you are doing now to Jeff City because you are bored, go where the action is and stop forcing change on a town that obvisouly is happy being boring and a family town.

"

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:43 PM:

" did you miss that one to i guess pio? only read what you want? dont want to answer a tough question? well here allow me to repost, so that maybe, you'll decide im worth of your time this time around, or that you are going to read more than just a post here or there that is to your liking..."Explain this to me then if you dont mind. I'm asking this in the politest way possible. If we add 6 - 800 jobs to the community (i dont care what kind, weather it be casino, a grocery store, a factory, any sort of LEGAL job market), then tell me, in what way is this a negative to the unemployment numbers?" "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:35 PM:

" I'm glad you brought that up City. I used the term "My City" and people on this forum said critical things, making fun of me and belittling me.

Here's the deal: It is my city. I live in the city limits, pay taxes and vote in every election. I do volunteer work, participate on commissions and committees, when my kids were in school my husband and I worked hard on booster clubs, etc. to improve their school, our city and our community. The high school has a motto: pride in excellence. We push that here. Try to be the best, take pride in it.

Just like a home owner has pride in ownership we have pride in ownership. Get over it. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:19 PM:

" Excuse me, toilet cleaning is way more interesting than this jiberish. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:18 PM:

" You know, I don't want to argue with you cityguy, cause I so don't care. But I do have an ongoing attachment to YOUR (are you mayor or what) city, its my son, future daughter in law and possible grandkids. I will always have to come back here. And there is another reoccuring theme, its the JC hater. Yes, its backwards, a drag, small minded, overwrought with a certain religion that has no problems with telling someone they will rot in hell if they weren't marrried in their church. Want me to go on???? The people are rude and think way too much of themselves. As for you and YOUR city. ITS ALL YOURS, enjoy. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:13 PM:

" Boxergal: You and several others have been slamming Jeff City non stop on a daily basis for over 2 weeks and this is the first post in many days that tells you to leave if it is not what you like. And they were polite in doing so. So now all of the sudden that is all you hear. Well I've been letting you and others slam my city and I've said nothing because when you and others slam Jeff City you are seen for what you are. I have been continually referring to the MSP Redevelopment site as future growth. Be fair. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:12 PM:

" areunuts,

i guess the same can be said to you also. if your scared of change, and dont want growth, then might i suggest you move. i did it once before and i can do it again. within 50 miles you have Mcgirk, California, Tipton, saracuse, and Sedalia. Take your pick, and enjoy. Meanwhile, those of us here in the capital city, that want the capital city of MO to be a place where people want to go and want to grow, will be voting YES YES as of Apr 8th. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:10 PM:

" Ok Pio,

Explain this to me then if you dont mind. I'm asking this in the politest way possible. If we add 6 - 800 jobs to the community (i dont care what kind, weather it be casino, a grocery store, a factory, any sort of LEGAL job market), then tell me, in what way is this a negative to the unemployment numbers? in what way, does adding jobs have a negative affect. Again, doesnt matter where the jobs are, just that they are made available. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:00 PM:

" There is a funny reoccuring theme in JC. I have heard it since I was in my 20's. Its the line "if you don't like it leave". Thats a wee bit small minded, isn't it? I mean, have you found another job in another city or moved your family miles away. I have. I have heard this same old line for years and its old. I never hear, well, maybe there will be some growth in the future, its always "leave". Well....alrighty, I can (thank god). "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:51 PM:

" By the way, I like slow pace. But what I do not like is seeing younger people pounding the pavement looking for jobs, thats all. Slow is good. When I was your age, I was content here. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:48 PM:

" Do you think? Maybe so. But I am from a large city and quite frankly it is boring here. BUT, I can walk away from it. I am retired. Some of the youth can not (such as Justin). I am just saying there has to be a fine balance. And by the way, when I meant the old guard.....I meant THE OLD guard. I do see younger people on the City Council and thats good. Anyway, like I said, I am not exactly pro casino, I am just pro economy and jobs, thats all. (back to toilet cleaning). "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:43 PM:

" I am not trying to be rude but that is just like someone coming into your house and saying ok your life is boring so lets see what we can bring in to spice it up. That is all I was saying, it's not harsh just reality. "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:41 PM:

" All I was saying is that if you live in Jefferson City and you think it is so "boring" then just move to a more exciting city, a lot of people come to Jefferson City because it is a slower paced city, It just makes me angry that people move here or to the surrounding areas and do nothing but complain about how boring this city is and how it needs this or that..most people who live here like it the way it is and I just don't understand why people come in and try to change that just because they think it is boring, it just boils down to if you think it is boring then go to a more exciting place... "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:35 PM:

" Sorry for the double post. My computer got locked up. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:33 PM:

" jobs just to try and make enough to feed their families, work without insurance, and have gas in a very old car. But I keep forgetting that we are in an area that judges so well of their neighbor. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:32 PM:

" areunuts to tell someone to leave if their ideas and opinions differ from yours is harsh. No one has said that to you. I have lived here most of my life born and raised. And I have seen change in this city and not for the good. We have an increase in crime and drugs in this city already. We have sex shop stings so do i need to keep listing. And personally watching so many jobs move away to other places and watching people in our community struggle for lack of jobs is sad. I am so glad that there are so many with those high paying jobs that can look down their noses at the ones struggling. Some are willing to work 2-3 "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:31 PM:

" Justin I'm not trying to ignore you, I just have things to do.

You asked:
"How when you add these jobs, does it affect unemployment?"

I can't follow your logic. What jobs are you talking about, casino jobs? The MO. unemployment rate is higher than the national average. Yet we have 12 casinos. So they are not helping the state decrease unemployment below the national average.

MP answered this with the assumption that the loss of 10,000 jobs would make our unemployment rate higher.

This ballot issue is about bringing a casino to JeffCity, not about banning casinos statewide. As the anti-group has said you'll take jobs from elsewhere, and put them here, so net-loss. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:30 PM:

" I don't mean teens, I mean 30 somethings. And by the way, boring can be good. It was a great place to raise my son. But I have to warn you, if you have kids and things stay the same, be prepared to have them not be able to find employment. As for me and my husband, after the market gets better we are so gone. Like I said, life is too short. And no, I don't want the crime like Columbia has either. I have said before, not from here, sure don't want to stay here. With that said, I have to go clean my bathroom. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:29 PM:

" Lets see 800-1000 people getting jobs...making money supporting their families on their own without welfare. Spending that money in our stores (because when you work on a Casino in Missouri you arent allowed to gamble in MO)part of what they sign when hired. Check those facts with gaming commission...and to say that others will go out of business. Our uptown restraunts would see an increase just as others have in other areas such as St Charles, St Louis, Booneville, ect...our stores wont lose business because we still have to buy food, gas and clothes, school supplies, and many other things. Why do you think booneville had such an increase?? If i was to believe it is all downhill wouldnt they have decreased in income?? "

areunuts wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:26 PM:

" I must say Boxergal I do NOT want the future of this city to be placed in the hands of the young folks of this town and I am only 39 years old.
Why does everyone want to "change" this town, the ones that love it here stay and enjoy but the ones that don't stop trying to force things on this city and move to a more exciting city, I personaly do not want to see this city become another Columbia..I use to live in Columbia and you would not believe the crime in that city which is why I moved back here to raise my children, a lot of us like this small so called "boring" city, so just deal or leave. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:24 PM:

" Justin I'm not ignoring you, I just have things to do.

You asked:
"How when you add these jobs, does it affect unemployment?"

I can't follow your logic. Are you referring to casino jobs? Missouri's unemployment rate is higher than the national average. Yet we have 12 casinos. So they are not helping the state decrease unemployment below the national average.

MP answered this with the assumption that the loss of 10,000 jobs would make our unemployment rate higher.

This ballot issue is about bringing a casino to JeffCity, not about banning casinos statewide. As the anti-group has said you'll take jobs from elsewhere, and put them here, so net-loss. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:49 AM:

" MP6500: You can flood this forum with all the flashy numbers that you want. When you look beneath the surface you see that there is a good chance of a reduction in the # of overall jobs and at best in the long run, no gain in jobs at all. And you are now trying to say that Gambling is the reason we don't have a worse economy in MO. I hope the peolpe reading this forum take the time to understand that the numbers are not what they appear to be. You hope that if you say something enough you can trick people into thinking it is true. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:00 AM:

" Ok Boxergal....let's put the word out, unless you're in your 20's and college educated, you can't vote on this..if you can figure out a way, i'll do it. Wish we could, i agree they have good ideas, and plans, but just don't think it's a go. PS yes, the mall should drop it's rent to retain and bring in more shops. They're not using their smarts on that. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:57 AM:

" Lastly...I am not a fearful person. I am an inquisitive, researchful, learn lessons from others person. I have lived life, i'm in my 50's, raised children, been to a casino or two, been to church, been around the country, and seen the differences of cities with and without, and I don't like what i see with the casinos. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:54 AM:

" I'll tell you what I think (like you care). I think you all need to turn the reigns of JC over to the young well educated adults and let go. They have great, fresh ideas. Wonderful ideas. Its time for a change from the old guard. Otherwise, I think you all may be seeing a dinosaur in the making. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:52 AM:

" Has anyone taken a good look at the old Cedar City? Boy, what a goldmine that would be and I am not talking soccer fields. What a waste that is. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:49 AM:

" Justin...lastly before i get off this thing for awhile today...i was generalzing what i got from you on your posts when i was saying what i did about you, i wasn't quoting you. It's the feeling that many of us get from the people of pro-casinos. We can come up with all the ideas in the world, but it won't be good enough to many without the casino. Again, i've never called anyone a name, just debating and discussing the issues, so i won't apologize, but hope you understand. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:48 AM:

" Yes, the rent is terrible. My son was a mgr. for one of the stores that I am sure is on its way out. He was telling me they were always getting jumped on because there was no business. Like he told his manager, "what do you want me to do, drag them in off of the streets"? Sorry, its bad, bad. We shopped in Columbia yesterday and the stores were packed, they are always packed. This town is dead. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:46 AM:

" Isn't that the truth (truth). Bureaucratic wastes. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:42 AM:

" I have seen the mall mentioned many times recently. The reason so many places come and go there may be because(As I was told by more than 1 business when they left)the cost of the rent is so high they cant make a go of it. Only the big chain stores, Dillards, Pennys etc who have stores elsewhere can absorb the costs and stay in business. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:37 AM:

" Thousands and thousands of dollars have been spent for this study and that study(i.e. Adrians Island is one recent example)by the city. Sure wish that money was actually used for street repairs or something that could be seen. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:33 AM:

" PS Justin...i guess we believe strongly or we wouldn't put ourselves out on this blog for others to oppose...so it stirs discussion and debate. I do feel that most try to answer everyones questions, but there is so much to write, so little space, and it's hard to keep up with it at times. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:30 AM:

" Many cities bring in groups to look at what would help with the economy and growth...has Jeff City ever done that before? I think it would take some experts to look at our problems and to help solve many of them. That's something i'm definitely for. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:30 AM:

" ultimatly, your right christn. i just feel like so many people on yourside of the argument, ignore questions or facts, then turn around and tell us on this side we are all unintellegent and just addicted to gambling. Thats what gets me going to begin with.

But ultimatly you are right. we have our own opinons, and obviously we are very strong in them. Also, this place (the forum) is such a small sampling of the population its not even funny. We all talk about things like we are the final say, when we are litterally 20 - 30 out of what 20 -40 thousand... "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:29 AM:

" Pioneers, no problem, we all make mistakes.

You ask, “If casinos are the answer to unemployment, why is it that Missouri already has 12 casinos and Missouri's unemployment rate is higher than the national average?” My assumptions are that our state may not be as attractive to industry and national trends are putting upward pressure on unemployment. The 12 casinos in Missouri employee over 10,000 people. Without those jobs, and those who indirectly support the casino’s, our rates would be much higher. Thanks for your question.
"

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:28 AM:

" I need anger management huh christn?? thats your answer to the numerous questions i had?? Anger management. good job of avioding having to answer a question you cant.

As for anger, not at all. Im a pretty happy guy most of the time. I'm not angry, im annoyed. People who live in fear of nothing, to me thats annoying. big difference though. If you knew anyone who knew me, theyd tell you the same. i dont get angry. i get perturbed by the fear of life. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:28 AM:

" Justin, i don't claim to be better than anyone else, but I'd like better for our community. Do i have all the answers, no, but neither do most on this "blog".. we just have our feelings, and it's too bad we don't agree, since i'd rather have you on my side, than against. Please don't take things so personally, and please don't get so upset with anyone on this forum. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:26 AM:

" Pio,

You ignore peoples questions left and right, then demand answers. very pious of you! Im pretty sure no one said casinos are the ANSWER to everything. What was said was, that in no way, is adding 1000 jobs a deterant to growth. in fact usually, when those kind of jobs are added, it becomes a good thing for the growth, and not a bad one.

Since you want questions answered sdo bad, ill ask you to do the same for me. How when you add these jobs, does it affect unemployment (and dont tell me b/c of all the addicts, b/c thats an untruth we both know). "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:25 AM:

" There you go Justin attacking someone again...It's what how and what you're saying things Justin, you're not willing to listen or reason, you're always on the attack. You need some anger management, and i hope you have a good day. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:25 AM:

" Christian lady - I am listening, boy am I listening. But I have to tell you a fall festival or a 4 celebration is not going to bring in bigger business'. You seem like a very nice person, as does everyone else. But just how are you going to solve this problem? You can't attract a big business or revenue with a correctional facilty tour. Like I said before, I am interested in it as my mother was secretary to the Warden in the 50's. I just can't see it doing anything for the area unless combined with something else. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:24 AM:

" people like yourself continue to judge people as openly as you do, then i feel bad for the rest of us. We want growth, your afraid of it, and keep talking about a "better way" yet youve not come up with a single way to do this that has not been agreed on by the pro side as well. ive seen no one say "the MSP is no good, NO TO THE CONVENTION CENTER". Why?? b/c we care about oru community and what can be gained, as opposed to fearing what MIGHT (and by might i mean most likely not) will happen. Stop with the fear, and you just might enjoy life a little more. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:22 AM:

" on more occasions then i care to count, where i felt this was only one of MANY things that this city needs. Flat out, this city needs growth. The difference between you and me, is im not afraid of it, and i wont go around insulting and putting people down for their views (weather for or against). Ive yet to JUDGE anyone, b/c unlike yourself, i dont think im better than y ou or any of the anti crowd. i know that just b/c i think differant doesnt make me bettter.

on numerous occasions ive said we need a convention center, the MSP wont be bad, we need period!! and as long as... "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:21 AM:

" MP6500, from your 9:18 am post, thanks a lot for carefully reading my 9:02 am post and catching my mistake. You are correct, I should have said Missouri has a higher unemployment rate than the national average.

Now please answer the question at the end of my 9:02 am post: "If casinos are the answer to unemployment, why is it that Missouri already has 12 casinos and Missouri's unemployment rate is higher than the national average? "

Thanks again for catching my error.
"

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:21 AM:

" I believe you're looking at a quick fix, a novelty, a hope in the Casino. I don't see this long term as being a wonderful thing. This is mid-Mo, no the high paying jobs aren't here, we've known that from the start. The cities like KC or St. Louis are where they draw the blue collar workers. It's been this way from the 1900's, and will be that way with or without the casino and the few blue collar jobs it might bring. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:20 AM:

" Christn,

Dont even start on talking about cutting people down. On top of that you made one of the most untrue statements to date of this whole ist of threads. Show me just ONE post where i said "its the casino, thats all iw ant, nothing else, its our salvation". i can even wait for you if you'd like. Take your time..... whats that, you cant find a post, its cause YOUR A LIAR when it comes to that statement.

never once did i say the casino is all there is to this town. In fact, id suggest a reading comprehension class or SIX for you. If so, you'd see where i stated..... "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:20 AM:

" This simple little example shows me I dont like the average wage numbers. Say I have a business with 8 employees. You have 3 guys making 129,000,75,000,and 30,000. Then there are 5 workers on the bottom making 18,000. This would be an average of 40,500 per worker. The ones making 18,000 arent going to be too impressed with the 40,500 average as they are still at the bottom making 18,000.
Same with the casino numbers, MOST of the workers will not be making anything close to the average number because of the high saleries at the top. While it may be a job it is NOT golden eggs that some would like to make people think it is.
"

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:18 AM:

" You can talk figures all you want. Please, walk the walk. Our young adults can't find gainful employment and if and when they do, a college degree will only get you around $17,000 to $20,000. I remember screaming at the tv the day after my son graduated. They said there were more jobs around than college graduates could ever fill. WHERE? Its certainly not here unless you work blue collar. I would love to ask if your kids have ever gone jobless or if you have ever lived pay check to pay check. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:15 AM:

" JC is dying off uptown. And at the mall. The business' are hurting. My husband just called an uptown business and was switched to another location on the other side of town. Seems the business is no longer uptown. What a shame. And the mall is no better, look at the business' that have left and I think more are possibly leaving. Its turned into a haven for senior citizens. And I really have to wonder if this town can support a Kohl's. Look around for just a minute, its dying and its bad. I am not pushing the casino but I have to ask if you all live in a bubble. Also, you... "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:14 AM:

" Christnlady, here is the direct link.

mgc.dps.mo.gov/annual%20reports/2007_ar/economic_impact.pdf "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:12 AM:

" MP sounds like the MO Gaming is averaging the wages..not listing them by job, so there is a difference :) "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:10 AM:

" City Guy..they don't want to listen or learn. Many just want it their way, and they don't care about the possible consequences now or long-term. They like to cut down others for their views, and skew their numbers to look favorable to their cause. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:10 AM:

" Estimated cost of gambling to MO.taxpayors in 2002:

Amount gambled in MO.casinos $1,212,125,485

Revenue (tax) to the state (20%) $242,425,897

Cost per pathological gambler/yr $13,586
(crime, bus.and employment costs, bankruptcy, suicide, illness, social service costs, government direct regulatory costs, family costs)

Cost due to addiction: 59,955 X $13,586 = -$814,548,630

Summary: cost due to addiction -$814,548,630 - revenue to Missouri $242,425,097 = $572,123,533.

So Missouri taxpayors paid $572,123,533 as a result of gambling in Missouri.

From Casinowatchdotorg

"

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:10 AM:

" Christnlady, you say “The avg. job wage shown by others is wrong”. If you take the time to go to the Missouri Gaming Commission’s website, you will find the numbers are correct. I would think if anyone knew about Missouri’s casinos, it would be them. 8-) "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:08 AM:

" Justin, there are better ways to improve the life and wages here in Cole County. Why don't you look at anything else and quit concentrating only on the casino? Why is is that it is this or nothing for you? For someone to win, someone must lose, how is that helping anything? I'm looking for a win-win for all, not just a very few. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:08 AM:

" From the Grinol study I quoted early there is a good chance we will have more peolpe unemployed (42&% chance of job loss). And other studies indicate there is no net gain at all. Don't fall for the promise when it is shown they don't deliver. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:04 AM:

" Don't forget they're automating many of the casino jobs and so that will mean less employees. The avg. job wage shown by others is wrong, they're using an average over 631 employees, not counting for the upper management or the part time employees. Check the figures for yourself on the U.S. Department of Labor
Bureau of Labor Statistics for average job wages. Look at them all, not just the top jobs. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:01 AM:

" i mean really, you wanna have a christian attitude that you keep portraying. How about caring about an opportunity for people to better their own lives. To be happier, healthier, and over all have a better life b/c they just went from making 6 - 8 bucks an hour to anywhere upwards of 16 dolalrs an hour (or more). To me, in looking at my own moral structure, im always happy to help someone to be a little happier in life, and if my vote of YES YES provides a thousand people the potential for that opporunity, then im all for it! =) "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:59 AM:

" Christn,

I dont believe anyone said that everyone would be making 30 bucks an hr. However, what they said was this is an extra close to 1000 jobs in which people can be making a lot more than they are making now working at wal mart or mcds or collecting welfare.

You tell me, welfare, or 8 bucks an hr. Or even better, someone making 10 an our has a chance to increase their own pay by MORE THAN HALF. Again, sign me up please.

You guys keep belittling these pays. It must be nice to make so much money that you dont have to care about other people or what they make christn. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:56 AM:

" The employee compensation figures for Boonville are skewed since many at the top make much more than the many on the bottom. Vote "No". "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:53 AM:

" But don't forget, those figures are misleading...for some that you gain, some you will lose in the small private business that are losing their incomes, their sales, etc.. so even the wages are misleading. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Lets see, i work in an office of about 45 people, and of those i can think of over HALF, that make almost 10k a year less in base pay (and we work within the IT industry). Yes we get commisions, buuut without them, we'd all be making WAAAAAY less than that. If that was my situation, i would think twice to vote YES YES on an opportunity such as that. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:52 AM:

" From U.S. Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics, under Casino wages, many of the wages on any local casino are the staff, and their wages range from $8-16/ hour. Wow, that's improving the wage in Jefferson City. "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:44 AM:

" CityGuy,

January there was estimated 3657 people in Jefferson City without a job. I am sure several of those would love to have a chance be able to get a decent paying job and support their family. I know I would! (data.bls.gov)

That is why I am voting YES, YES on April 8th for more jobs in our community! "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:44 AM:

" All that glitters is NOT gold, the wages and the winnings must come from us and from the local businessmen that are losing out. I am against the casino Justin, because it will not benefit Jefferson City in the end, the winnings don't come free to anyone, the winners or the city. And yes, morally, i think it will be a downfall of Jefferson City..I'm looking for a better way. "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:43 AM:

" "All Missouri Casinos
Employed 10763 people in 2007
Employee Compensation was $334.2 million
That equates to $31050 average per employee"

That works out to 897 jobs average per casino in Missouri!!!

Even if Jefferson City attracts an "average" casino, that means 897 NEW JOBS for our town at $31,050.00 average pay!!!

VOTE YES YES!!! "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:40 AM:

" 631 Casino jobs in Jefferson City would help diversify employment economy in this town!

631 jobs less dependent on a good state budget year! "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:39 AM:

" CityGuy does that include the difference in the amount of people working and the types of jobs that bring our income median up? For JC they take into account all goverment jobs and that includes the high paying ones as well...Dont compare apples to oranges for the median...doesnt work that way...no more than someone saying that we will be just like Las Vegas either...when comparing we need to compare the things that fall into the same areas...we need more jobs heck the unemployement shows that (so what jobs are we going to get people) National foreclosers are way up too...kind of makes you wonder why we are saying all this will happen IF we get a casino...its already happening. "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:38 AM:

" 631 more jobs in Jefferson City paying an average of $31,050.00 would be a great boost to our local economy and help improve the quality of life/standard of living for all Jeffersonians!

VOTE YES YES!! "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:36 AM:

" All Missouri Casinos

Employed 10763 people in 2007
Employee Compensation was $334.2 million

That equates to $31050 average per employee.


mgc.dps.mo.gov
"

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:34 AM:

" MP6500: Your figures all look so wonderful and that is what has caught the eye of the pro casino organizers. They have $ signs in their eyes and and have not done further investigation. When you look beneath the gaudy numbers you find all that glitters is not gold. "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:32 AM:

" Isle of Capri –Boonville

Employed 631 people in 2007
Employee Compensation was $17.3 million

That equates to $27416.79 average per employee.


(mgc.dps.mo.gov)
"

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:27 AM:

" In FY 2007, Missouri casinos:
* Employed 10,763 people
* Paid wages of $ 334.2 million
* Contributed $ 319.9 million in direct gaming taxes to state and local home-dock governments.
* Contributed $102.4 million in total admission fees to special state funds and home-dock governments.
* Earned $1.6 billion in gross gaming revenue.
* Paid total real estate and sales taxes of $36.8 million, for a combined total of gaming and other taxes of
$789.1 million.
* Invested a total of $2.4 billion in capital investment since 1998, with an additional $1 billion coming on
line in the next 12-18 months. (mgc.dps.mo.gov) "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:25 AM:

" During the time frame in question Boonville's income went up $5,200. During that same time frame Jeff City's went up $6,800. That was without a casino. I'll take Jeff City's increase over Boonville's. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:21 AM:

" Again, sorry christn, but i just dont understand your points. If its a religous factor, then fine, i get that. But these other post about not wanting the casino i just dont get.

Again, ive said before, i am catholic, i raise my children in a catholic school, i pray, etc... but i also know that i want a chance for my community to grow into something it truly can grow into. I want it to be a place my children want to stay when then grow up. I want it to be a place where not only they can raise their family here, but they can enjoy it even more than i do now. "

Justin wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:18 AM:

" Christn,

You called me a bully... if stating my opinion, and refuteing yours claims makes me a bully, then so be it.

BTW, you never did answer my question. You said yoruself that one casino would have little impact on the community. Then why fight it??

And as for MRH's statistic, i guess i look at things a little differant. If the avg median income increases by 5000+/per year, to me, thats a darn nice change. So, sign me up. Called it not worth anythign to you, but if my income was increasing in that way, id be all for it!!

Lets say YES YES to helping our community to grow!! "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:18 AM:

" Pioneers, you said “It appears you showed Missouri has a lower unemployment
rate than the national average.” How do you get that from “Missouri's unemployment rate in January climbed to 5.5 percent -- up from 5.3 percent in December. The national unemployment rate in January was 4.9 percent.” ???
"

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:12 AM:

" Christnlady, please see my corrected post prior to yours. Yes, our area, (state of Missouri) does have a higher level of unemployment of 5.5%. I have also included information below that does confirm that JC is around 4.1% as you stated.


1997 – 3.0%
1998 – 2.8%
1999 – 2.2%
2000 – 2.7%
2001 – 3.7%
2002 – 4.1%
2003 – 4.2%
2004 – 4.3%
2005 – 4.3%
2006 – 4.1%
2007 – 4.1%


Source: U. S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
"

CityGuy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:10 AM:

" MP6500: From a 2004 report called Gambling In America: Cost and Benefits (Grinols) "Commercial Casinos Nationwide generate job losses in more than 42% of the counties with casinos." Doesn't sound like Cole Ccounty needs to take that chance on a casino hurting our job market. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:02 AM:

" mp6500,

It appears you showed Missouri has a lower unemployment
rate than the national average.

Before presenting that data you said:

"Absolutely! Adding new jobs to any community with a higher then average unemployment rate is a great relief to those who need a job!"

If casinos are the answer to unemployment, why is it that Missouri already has 12 casinos and Missouri's unemployment rate is higher than the national average? "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:49 AM:

" Unemployment rates: On US Dept. of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, it showed Jeff City at 4.1 unemployment in December, and hasn't been changed yet...this is lower than the natl. average at 4.8%. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:39 AM:

" Mph...many enjoy it? Our unemployment rate is higher than others?? Where do you get this information? I find that many go to the Casinos as a novelty, to check it out, and often don't go back. Our unemployment rate is lower than most. The Casino will be a negative impact on the city of Jefferson,especially in the long run, and those that want to go to gamble can go to Boonville, KC, or St. Louis. "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:34 AM:

" Missouri's unemployment rate inched higher in January even as jobs were added. That's according to preliminary data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics released earlier this month. Missouri's unemployment rate in January climbed to 5.5 percent -- up from 5.3 percent in December. The national unemployment rate in January was 4.9 percent. (3/17/2008 - Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
"

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:31 AM:

" Correction of wording to my last post, instead of “community”, I should rightly have said, “area”. Thank you! "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:26 AM:

" MRH,

You are correct! “They [casinos] have a significant impact on recreation opportunities in a small local.” I agree that they have a significant impact in a positive way because many people of all ages (over 21), gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, and religion enjoy visiting a casino as entertainment. “They do compete for local dollars and labor.” Absolutely! Adding new jobs to any community with a higher then average unemployment rate is a great relief to those who need a job!
"

pioneers wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:24 AM:

" Good morning everyone. Mrh just showed us an excellent job of doing throrough research, analyzing and evaluating the data he collected, and using that data to present a complete picture to his audience. Take a few minutes to read and re-read what he just posted. Thank you mrh.

Swissgirl asked why people were discussing median income. She thinks regardless of Boonville's median income a casino will be good for JeffCity because: "What it will do is provide jobs for people who don't have one, or better jobs for some people who do." Swissgirl, if a casino really did that, then it would have had more of a positive impact on Boonville's median income over 6 years. VOTE NO and NO! "

mrh wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:08 AM:

" I did some checking on the U.S. Census site and came up with some interesting information. See what you think:

I looked up the Median Income for 2000 (before casinos) and 2006 (after casinos). I calculated the percent change for comparison for the Nation, Missouri, Jefferson City, and Boonville.

Nation:
2000-$42,000; 2006-$48,200; 14.8%

Missouri:
2000-$37,900; 2006-$44,651; 17.8%

Jefferson City:
2000-$52,600; 2006-$59,400; 12.9%

Booneville:
2000-$41,500; 2006-$46,700; 12.5%

It should be easy to see from these numbers that the casino in Booneville had no significant impact on the median income for the area. Casinos don’t increase income. They do compete for local dollars and labor. They have a significant impact on recreation opportunities in a small local. Vote NO! "

pioneers wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:48 PM:

" ChristnLady and CityGuy are right.

Now I'm going to bed.

Good night. See you all tomorrow. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:34 PM:

" truthseeker: I just went to the Naitonal Coalition Against Organized Gambling web site. I hadn't seen it before either. Gotta thank Mr. O for that. Tom Grey had a lot of good stuff to say. Especially how gambling revenue is a tax on the citizens that go to the casino they just don't know it. Instead of the city levying the tax they let the casino collect the tax for them in the form of patron losses. Since the pro casino crowd is pushing all that money for the city without taxation I found it ironic. If you pro casino guys are truly open minded, you should read his speech. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:05 PM:

" Hypocritical and sinners? Whats that about? Just what are you talking about, we, that are against the casino, think that there are better avenues to bring in money, jobs, and fun activities for the Jeff city community, we've stated facts and opinions. We believe we all deserve better than a casino. Some of you are condescending, but we ignore that because we live by the golden rule. We have a stake in Jefferson City's well-being, and will fight to keep it the best it can be, rather than stoop to what's fun and popular for a few that are willing to spend a "little" now and then. Vote "NO". "

pioneers wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:49 PM:

" Go to h t t p //ded.mo.gov/researchandplanning/indicators/countywages.stm. There's a chart with the average hr.wage by co.for all MO.counties and St.Louis City for calendar year 2006. Here's the order I think they are ranked:

1.St.Louis City $22.73
2.St.Louis County $21,77
3.Jackson County $20.68
4.Clay County $18.72
5.St.Charles County $17.38
6.Platt $16.89
7.Cole County $15.89
35.Cooper County $12.70

It appears that without a casino Cole County is ranked pretty high. I believe all of the areas ranked higher are the metropolitan areas around St.Louis or Kansas City. It does not appear the casino has helped Cooper county that much, as they are ranked 35th.

And ndn I agree with City and appreciate the service your family has provided in the armedforces. "

jackofalltrades wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:09 PM:

" nd..thats the pot calling the kettle black when you say to city guy , you think you have all the answers, there is not a forum in here that you don't state what you think the answer to a situation is whether is be church fliers handed out to juice bars, to education answers, to casinos, you my dear are the queen of
I know it all, as well as max and oh my, you all
three are birds of a feather, then you deny it, after you write it, oh what a tanled web we weave . I take all these solutions with a grain of salt of from DOR employeee "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:04 PM:

" Exactly Cityguy! I just posted the exact quote again from youtube below. I still am wondering what I have missed? It clearly says he(Mr. F) does not want it in his town and would fight very very hard against it. Is there another youtube video on his comments that I havent seen?

I also find it interesting to hear what economist Warren Buffet has to say about casinos.(National Coalition against Organized Gambling website. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:53 PM:

" ndn: I wanted to make sure I thanked your husband, relatives and friends for their serivce to our country. You have my sincerest appreciation for your sacrifice for our freedom. Also I do give to charities and do some volunteer work but I know I should do more.

Mr. O I just viewed the utube video again and unless I am not looking at the same one you are, Mr. Fahrenkopf not only says what I said he said, but also uses the term NIMBY (not in my back yard). Did you look at it? Why would you tell people to look at the video to support your position. It is very damaging to the pro casino side. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:30 PM:

" By the way, after I read Mr. O's post tonight is the first time I had seen the website for the National Coalition of Organized Gambling. My source for this quote was never from their website. His opponent in the debate, Mr. Gray?, has an excellent speech on there. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:19 PM:

" Swiss - Seriously, I am going to be at the lake on that day but that sound like a lot of fun. Nice to know we are keeping the cities of Boonville and Lake of the Ozarks going, huh? "

boxergal wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:09 PM:

" NDN - Well, I might just take you up on that. And then we will both be sinners (ha!). "

oldman wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:05 PM:

" been sitting back on this whole thing, not sure anyone realizes this vote is just for a change to the charter to allow consideration for a casino. after all this, i doubt any casino operation would want to open in JC. can bet (pun intended) if this passes, it will go back to another vote like before to overturn it. too many posts to find it, but agree w/another post saying travel 2 hrs, you're there, so gambling "addiction" (aka lack of self control) is already there, another one that said put it to a vote of the entire county, since city limits now stretch almost all the way east to the Osage River - lot of farmland there. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:01 PM:

" Here again is the exact quote from YOU TUBE video. I have seen it. What am I missing?
"People have the right to go to the ballot box and determine what they want the quality of life to be in their own area. Now if someone were to come along and tell me that they were going to put a casino in McLean, Virginia, where I live, I would probably work very very hard against it. I just don’t -- what’s the old saying, ‘NIMBY, not in my back yard?’ Now I may be in favor of gaming, but I just don’t want it located in a particular area." - - AGA CEO Frank Fahrenkopf in Cleveland, Ohio, Oct. 24, 2006"
"

swissgirl wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:55 PM:

" I don't understand all this back and forth about median incomes, Jeff City vs. Boonville. A casino is not going to affect median incomes that much, if at all. What it will do is provide jobs for people who don't have one, or better jobs for some people who do. Hey Boxergal, I'm going to see Air Supply--I'll look for you there (although I don't know what you look like!). Before the show we're having dinner at Farradays--it is fantastic. Try the lobster bisque--superb! After the show I hope to spend a fun and relaxing hour or so playing the Hot Hot Penny slot--it's a gas! I love just sitting in the lobby watching the people go by too. Great entertainment! "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:28 PM:

" I hate how the people of the National Coalition of Organized Gambling stretches out the whole Frank Fahrenkopf situation. Do you people realize that all they did is clipped out a small portion of his debate and used that? How pathetic. "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:24 PM:

" I agree with you ND. This issue has passed before and it will pass again, only question is: will the opposition throw a big enough fit again to get it reversed. It passed before & I'm confident it will pass again. It doesn't make any difference where the data came from, it's a valid source of data and the calculations are NOT different. Check your statement. They calculations used are the same to figure median household income from both websites.

I'm not bullying anyone, just speaking freely as I am allowed to do by the US Constitution.

Also, I know the quote from Mr. Fahrenkopf. I watched the whole speech... why don't you do the same? It's on YouTube. Then you will see. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 18, 2008 7:08 PM:

" MrO don't think I'm trying to get on your good side. This IS Pioneers, you know I don't care what you think of me. But, the point of my earlier post was to point out the error in the use of this data.

Maybe it was an honest mistake on your part. Maybe you saw the $47,747 figure and got excited. It doesn't matter, you did not give your readers the data on JeffCity and you did not explain that you used 2 different websites for the 2005 and 2007 data.

MP, MrO, Amazed and Justin, stop acting like bullies.

Stop trying to silence the opposition with your foolishness. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 18, 2008 7:02 PM:

" Here's what happened:
MrOpinion said last night:

"Estimated median household income in 2005: $35,400 (it was $33,440 in 2000) via city-data.com

2007 median household income: $47,747."

The 2007 median household income figure for Boonville was from another website which shows Jefferson City's 2007 median househole income is $59,404.

Keep in mind that the city-data.com figures are for 2005. They are based on whatever figures and calculations they use. This new site is showing 2007 figures. They use different calculations. Therefore you should not assume that Boonville's income went up $12,000 in 2 years, or that JeffCity's went up $17,000.

MrO if you don't get it, you should. You are intelligent enough to know better...to be continued "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 18, 2008 6:47 PM:

" The more I read these posts the more I realize the anti-casinos scare me more that the casinos. At least we know the casino isn't hypocritical about what it does. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 6:35 PM:

" My question is if it passes this time are we going to have to have another vote over and over till it says No to make them happy again...to bad we couldnt stick with the first time around when it was voted on and said YES "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 18, 2008 6:25 PM:

" Mr O..you are the one who appears to be twisting the statement for your opinion.
Mr. F.(ceo of gaming commission)says people have a right to decide at the polls if they want a casino. He clearly says that HE would NOT want one in his town and would fight to keep it out. NIMBY!!! And I agree 100% with that! NIMBY!
Mistating and twisting is what lost it for the procasino vote last time. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 18, 2008 6:22 PM:

" For reference, I did not say i didn't want to bring in industry, but that nafta took most of our chances away, as it did for most of America. The Casino will not help the economy of Jefferson City as much as you think, it has to come from someone's pocket, whether it is yours or the local businessman. I'd appreciate your being a little nicer on this forum, i'm not "calling" you on everything you've said Justin, and no, i don't think you're right on many of the facts or issues. Vote No. "

truthseeker wrote on Mar 18, 2008 6:18 PM:

"
""People have the right to go to the ballot box and determine what they want the quality of life to be in their own area. Now if someone were to come along and tell me that they were going to put a casino in McLean, Virginia, where I live, I would probably work very very hard against it. I just don’t -- what’s the old saying, ‘NIMBY, not in my back yard?’ Now I may be in favor of gaming, but I just don’t want it located in a particular area." - - AGA CEO Frank Fahrenkopf in Cleveland, Ohio, Oct. 24, 2006

If you are going to use a quote use the complete quote.
He is saying he would NOT wantoneinhistown! "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 5:33 PM:

" I want to go! Haha "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 5:18 PM:

" hey boxergal you wanna go to a concert with me...I will drive and hey maybe we can take $20 and play some slots... "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 18, 2008 5:17 PM:

" I am not AMAZED at the fact CG is refusing to answer the tough questions and is bent on making an argument that we have moved on from. To say we see the numbers and dont know what they mean or make the accusation we really see this as a get rich quick scheme is just another illusion of morale superiority he attempts to impose on everyone. i.e. He believes he is more intelligent than the rest of us, while proving otherwise with every post. My next question; if its not about money why is he in business? By the way, Air Supply is a great old great group but we dont lack for a hot air supply from anti-casino arguments. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 5:17 PM:

" cont...going hungry, means anger comes out and violence goes up...hmmm all of that and we dont have a casino...time for those going against jobs and entertainment and growth in our community should be the first ones to step up and help support some of these families that are struggling to make ends meet because they cant get a job or a second job to make those ends meet....before we say NO on what IFs lets say YES YES to what can be "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 5:15 PM:

" CityGuy since you seem to be the only one with ALL THE ANSWERS please tell us what is going to happen if we get a casino...Not the what IFs but what WILL happen...And please dont say things like Las Vegas because you need to compare towns of close to the same size. And believe it or not from reading many other posts on here from everyone else...doesnt seem like everyone is only wanting the casino because of GET RICH...infact seems like some maybe those who are unemployed and needing a job to feed their families. So you are saying they dont count that we dont need the jobs but yet MO Unemployement is up means more people will be needing state aide, more kids going... "

boxergal wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:38 PM:

" Is, sorry. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:37 PM:

" Oh yea and when we got home, we found our next door neighbors yard rutted by a car. turned a circle in it. Its school out by any chance and the kiddies are bored already? God, I dread summer. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:35 PM:

" Hey, ya'll. Just came from Columbia and there is a big old billboard that the group Air Supply is playing at the Isle of Capri. How cool is that???? "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:14 PM:

" Mr. O I think I can tell from your post that you truly don't understand the mistake you made in using the numbers you did. What worries me now is that you and the other pro casino organizers see the numbers the gaming industry present and believe them without an understanding of what they mean and without objective analysis. Were you too quick to support something just because the numbers look good and we can "get rich quick" like amazed said, without understanding the full and complete impact to our community? It's not always all about the money. "

Boscoe wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:50 PM:

" Every point the anti-casino crowd has made has been refuted with FACTS.

I find this whole issue a hoot as they call me names, say that I hate JC, tell me I am going to hell, tell me that the Mafia is going to take over JC, tell me that we will have the "wrong element" in our town. None of this has happened in Boonville.

Jefferson City needs the growth, new jobs, entertainment, and city revenue for better city services and to keep our taxes lower.

VOTE YES and YES!!! "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:21 PM:

" What I said before. The argument over numbers that CG started and cant prove is meaningless. The figures aren't going to allow anyone to adequately raise a family amongst a state worker wage that's last in the nation. Alternate or second employment is better than no work at all. If CG really wants to be honest let him tell us what his income is and what he pays his employees and if he is afraid he'll lose them to a Casino who more than likely pays better wages. In addition, Jeff City population is 6/7 greater in than Boonville so it stands to reason the income is lower. Point missed is that income is comparable is because of the casino. "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:17 PM:

" You are right. Most people here on both sides of the issue have been very respectful of each others opinions and are happy to have open discussions with each other. Sadly, there are a very few that seem to demonize anyone that they disagree with and frequently attempt to do everything they can to unethically misrepresent comments. As long as everyone cites their sources and accurately quote from them, and then there is no question the data is accurate. Don’t be angry with them, it is just a sign of desperation as they are unable to deal with others that have conflicting opinions from their own. Pray for them and continue posting and having quality open minded discussions. "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:12 PM:

" Exactly. Instead of examining the information put in front of them and using it to make a valid decision or response to the pertinent topic of discussion they blatantly come back with a personal attack. How immature. I have provided VALID, SOURCED FACTS that they seem to ignore because somehow they find its "skewed". They will always come up with any reason they can to be argumentative. "

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:07 PM:

" and as for the skewing of facts, MP put it best earlier. It's all they've got left. Their very own "facts" have been shown to be lies, and now, they have no choice.

Watch, give it a post or 2 and someone will come on here and insult me, or yourself, for no real reason other than they dont know what else to say... (just watch).

Meanwhile, they can insult, and we can vote, guess which one is going to be more important. ;) "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:05 PM:

" MrOpinion,

You have to watch some of the Anti-Casino folks here because a couple (NOT ALL) have a tarnished reputation for distortions in their posts. Good job on your contributions and glad to have you participating on the discussion boards. Remember everyone, many people died for our right to vote, so please go vote on April 8!
"

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:05 PM:

" Mr. O,

Dont let him bait you. He and so many of the others, have made it their job. They've given up on trying to prove their points, b/c they cant, so instead, in ricks very own words yesterday, they turn to ad hominem arguements. They have no point to make, b/c EVERY SINGLE ONE has been discredited, so instead they start insulting us. Ive made more points today then i care to count, but he, byro, pio, and christn, have ignored them all. why?? B/c its either insult or come up with a competent argurement. Guess which one is easier for them to do??? "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 2:46 PM:

" There was no mistake in my numbers and I did not fudge or mis-place anything to making Boonville look better. LOOK AT YOU twisting Mr. Fahrenkopf's statements to make them work to your point of view.
Fahrenkopf's has become the public face of casino gambling in America. He said what he said because in his role as the chief executive of the AGA, Fahrenkopf is the national advocate for the commercial casino industry and is responsible for positioning the association to address regulatory, political and educational issues affecting the industry. This INCLUDES where a casino may, or may not, be located. He was making a point that casinos ARE great investments to a community when located in the right places. Stop trying to discredit me "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 18, 2008 2:33 PM:

" Mr O I think you are pretty much discredited here since you have been exposed fudging your numbers i.e. Mixing median household income numbers from different sources to make it appear that Boonville's numbers are better than they really are. Shame, Shame. Aren't you one of the main organizers of the pro casino effort? You guys wouldn't be doing that with the other numbers too would you? No, probably not. It just happened this once.

What does Amazed and MP6500 have to say about the apparent "mistake" on the part of the pro casino side? Wait, let me say it for you "You do to too!" I ask you.... where? "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 2:32 PM:

" CityGuy, you are stretching the truth when you are talking about Frank Fahrenkopf. He said that he does not believe casinos should be placed in certain areas. He says he STRONGLY believes in and promotes gaming and gambling; however, believes that an organization of that nature should be placed in a sufficient area. For example, he said, "If they wanted to put a casino in the plains of Virgina, where I live, I would probably work very hard against it. Now, I may be for gaming but I just don't want it in a particular area."

Get your facts right. "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 2:24 PM:

" OH, and for those who said that a casino has better impacts in St. Louis or Kansas City but not smaller cities...

"As the information in Tables I-VI clearly indicate, gaming revenues from the admissions
fee and the local portion of the state gaming tax have become an important element in financing
local services for home dock communities. Obviously, the fiscal impact is far greater in the
smaller cities and much less for St. Louis and Kansas City. Gaming revenues as a percentage of
total revenues ranges from a tiny 0.8% in Kansas City to a dominant 75.2% in Riverside (see
Table I)." See the tables and the WHOLE PAPER at research.stlouisfed[dot]org/conferences/moconf/papers/phares.pdf "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 18, 2008 2:23 PM:

" What about Frank Fahrenkopf, CEO of the American Gaming Association saying he would "work very hard to keep a casino from coming into his community". Why would he fight so hard against a casino if it was such a good thing for his community? "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 2:08 PM:

" Also see missouricasinos[dot]org/pdfs/economic_impact.pdf

FURTHER PROOF that a casino DOES NOT impact our economic status negatively.

Just visit the missouricasinos [dot] org website. It is a wealth of information with CITED and SOURCED information coming from some of the top economic analysts in the country.

Again... nuff said. "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 2:02 PM:

" "When gaming was introduced in Missouri, critics warned of a host of social ills that would follow, such as a dramatic increase in the number of pathological gamblers, rising crime rates, and cannibalization of other businesses. The gaming firms and state regulators have addressed each of these alleged theories of social costs. The FACTS simply do not support the allegations. For example, the opponents of gaming allege that casinos do not add economic benefit because casino-related spending is merely the displacement of money that would have been spent elsewhere in the economy. However, a 2002 study found that gaming injected $567 million to the Missouri economy, even after accounting for displaced spending." - missouricasinos[dot]org/analysis.cfm "

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 1:29 PM:

" and this mentality of saying that all the pro will get one, then they will want more, is totally without merit. I mean i guess your right really. Boonville got one and now they have at least another...... wait..... nope years later they still have just 1. Thats as mucha form of propoganda levied by the anti side as antyhing.

And you keep bringing up what if what if what if.... you know if you live in fear of what if then NOTHING happens. DO you wake up each morning and go, "nope not going outside, WHAT IF i get struck by lightning", or nope, not sitting on the toilet "WHAT IF i flush it, fall in, and drown"!!! "

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 1:25 PM:

" Christn,

Ive got to post now. you stated in your very own words, and i quote, "You're not going to change much for Jeff City with 1 casino".

YoujuststatedYOURSELF, that it will not change much. if thats the case, then why the fight? why the arguement? You and some others have ranted through 300ormore of these post about how its going to ruin the town we live in, its going to have a detramental and tremendous effect.... yet "You're not going to change much for Jeff City with 1 casino."

So whichone is it?? Looks to me like the propoganda just caved in on itself. NOt trying to be rude here Crhistn, but that as contradictoryasitgets!!! "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:58 PM:

" So if one casino isn't going to make that much of a difference why the opposition to it. And just who is the wrong crowd? That is so judgemental a statement for a Christian and course we dont need new industry because of NAFTA? Some of this stuff just AMAZES me. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:53 PM:

" I haven't had the judging as you call it, so we're in different circumstances. Yes we found the youth groups, the Young Life, and the occasional state Youth group functions to be great for the kids, but i am dismayed as you are about the roller skating, the lack of other activities, and no one seeming to do a thing. The river front COULD bring in other activities and festivals, dramas, learning, but we would have to work on that from the start, adding our ideas. Versailles is not doing so well since the Pencil Factory closed down, they got the new walmart because Audie W., just as they did the first back in the 80's. They are fighting the sameasus. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:36 PM:

" I know in a matter of the last 3 months my children have been to a couple of them. They are drug and alcohol free and geared for our children. To bad we cant find more things for them to do...pretty sad that to take my kids out dancing with me and my husband we have to drive up to kingdom city to kc country to do that...when we start getting things that are family oriented for everyone to do and the churches in our area quit judging people and their congregations quit judging we will see more people caring...A church is there to listen not to tell... "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:34 PM:

" I agree we need to look at all areas to see where we can improve. There are still small towns that have great growth and draw people to them...Hannibal, Hermann, Stockton...those are just to name a few...Versailles is another...why because they are willing to hold big festivals that draw people to those areas...they also plan different events throughout the year as well. We have a great riverfront that could bring many things...seems we only want to look at the traintracks and the sandplant though...Why is that...I have listed many things in many of the forums that we can do for the children as well as the adults...one thing that I have seen that is good is one of our local churchs holds Christian rock Concerts... "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:31 PM:

" You have to look at the what "if's" and possible problems with any large project. Someone would have a lot of $ involved, and aren't just going to close up or change their gameplan if something doesn't go well for Jeff City. I didn't worry about the what if's as a child, but as an adult, i must weigh all sides of the situation, then make a rational decision where I put my vote. I think there are more uplifting, stable, family oriented choices for our capital that i would throw my weight to. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:28 PM:

" With Nafta taking many of the US jobs overseas, it's a bad time to bring in new industry anywhere. Our unemployment rate is low comparatively speaking, so employers are worried if they will have the quality staff needed. Our city hall & Mayor should be looking for these opportunities, but i don't hear much about it. We are not a large city compared to Springfield, KC or St. Louis, so our draw for business is not as good, we're not on an interstate, so that hurts our prospects. I believe it's time for the people in office in JC, and the Capital to help us to become the town that I can envision. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:23 PM:

" cont...the roller rink...it seems we are closing everything...like i said i have been in this community for over 30 yrs and all i keep seeing is how many business try to come in only to leave just as quickly. And Christianlady thank you for bringing up the juicebar...you said "What if things go wrong at the casino and it does bring in the wrong crowd" seems to me the casino isnt here and we already have those of that crowd here. A casino isnt going to fill the what IFs...infact i do believe I keep hearing about crime being down in Booneville and only one crime being related to someone coming to the boat in all that time. I dont live on what IFs "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:19 PM:

" And what it tells us is to not do anything in excess. Also Christianlady to answer you not many towns have great pay because they are lacking in jobs but we are a CITY (jefferson CITY) so why are we lacking the jobs and the great pay? We have goverment in session how many months of the year...wow that helps places like Madisons, and the uptown restraunts but it does nothing for the business because they are working long hours and dont care to shop the stores here. Listen to them talk sometime about what JC is lacking. It is sad...we have closed one bowling alley, a drive in movie theatre, many stores in and out of the mall, they are trying to sell the... "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:16 PM:

" We must be selective about what we bring...just look at the juice bar. What if things go wrong at the casino and it does bring in the wrong crowd, or if you get unhappy with it and want another? There are too many "if's" with the casino...let's look for something else. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:14 PM:

" I watch daily as our youth move away to find a better place. I see daily new faces (thugs) coming in selling drugs they see this is an area where they dont even have to try because No One seems to care. Well I will say this as a parent I do care. I care that we have nothing in our area for kids or adults to do. There arent real places to go dancing with the family, we even have to drive to places like the lake of the ozarks to go camping and swimming...yes we have Binder but please go check it out what is there to draw people to that area?? Also a little secret I am a Christian I read myBible... "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:14 PM:

" As for incomes...it's supply and demand....name 1 town, i said town, not city, that has a good income? It's in the cities that the income is higher, and so is the cost of living. You're not going to change much for Jeff City with 1 casino, and as they've said in earlier statements, they're going to more and more automation, to eliminate the jobs. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:11 PM:

" CityGuy to reply to your comment "ask not what our country can do for me but what I can do for my country" (Im the wife of a MARINE, sister in law to 2 Navy, best friend to more than one of the ARMY, and work with one from the AF) now to make you understand a little more...I work to see CHANGE in my community not to see it snubbed out by someone who would prefer to see us not have a thing in our community and watch everyone leave. We have opportunity to see growth and to give jobs to 1000s who have no job (Unemployement UP)We need to bring things here not push them away. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:10 PM:

" City Guy...i'm with you on that speech. I didn't like of the other things about Kennedy, but that speech was to inspire people to make the best of life and to do what they could to help, rather than just blogging as we are all guilty of :) Yes we have problems with the roads, the overpasses, the youth not having enough to do, but what can we do? I do think it's time to let our voices be heard, but this isn't getting us too far.. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:46 AM:

" The president who made that quote did a lot for organized crime in this country as did his father and the females who came in and out of his office in the white house. Yep! Inspirational to me! I do for my country and them my country does me. Whew.... "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:38 AM:

" pioneers - Glad to see you are keeping track of my hours. Also glad you have a sense of humor. It might surprise you that some of us are not rich and work 2-3 jobs. And as far as the median income in Jeff, no matter what site you use, it aint a lot for a working family no matter what. We need the casino to get rich quick. As far as the comment about a pity party, we'll stop by the anti-casno folk's one in April. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:29 AM:

" Contd. from previous post:

Also, the city-data.com site shows JeffCity's 2005 median family income was $42,200. As previously stated, the new site (see MrOpinions's post for the url) uses different data for their calculations. They show Jeffferson City's 2007 median family income was $59,404. You should not assume JeffCity's median family income increased $17,000 in 2 years because the figures are based on different data and calculation methods.

But you can compare Boonville's $47,747 median family income for 2007 to Jefferson City's $59,404 median family income for 2007. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:23 AM:

" Mr. Opinion, thanks for giving the source of that information.

MrOpinion said last night:

"Estimated median household income in 2005: $35,400 (it was $33,440 in 2000) via city-data.com

2007 median household income: $47,747."


Now, as it turns out the 2007 median household income figure for Boonville was from another website. Oh, by the way, that web site shows Jefferson City's 2007 median househole income is $59,404.

Everyone keep in mind that the city-data.com figures are for 2005. They are based on whatever figures and calculations they use. This new site is showing 2007 figures. They use different calculations. Therefore you should not assume that Boonville's income went up $12,000 in 2 years. to be cont.... "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:40 AM:

" Hahah, you children are funny. Can't a man sleep and work? I don't have to check in here to see what kind of BS you are throwing around.

Here's my source for 07 Boonville income since city-data is lagged in updating their information: money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2007/snapshots/PL2907318.html

"

CityGuy wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:25 AM:

" ndn: I can't help myself, I just have to respond. Your statement "What has Jeff City done for us?" is a very selfish statement that I am sure is shared by most of the pro casino crowd. I know I am getting on a soap box here but to quote one of our Presidents "Ask not what your country can do for you But ask what you can do for your country". That has inspired me my whole life. Some of you should let it inspire you too. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:56 AM:

" I'm worried about Mr.Opinion. Has anybody heard from him? He usually posts by now. He hasn't answered the question CityGuy asked last night at 9:16 P.M. Mr. Opinion is usually a thorough guy and answers questions put to him. I hop he is ok.

"

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:49 AM:

" You talk about not stopping growth...all I have seen in this town since I have been here most of my life...(I left for 4 yrs to live in SC)is no growth...its sad to see so many business' going under in our area. Take a look at our Mall over half of the spots are not even in use. Never have I taken money away from food clothing or something my family needed to go to a boat or anywhere else to gamble. ( we use fun money which we plan into our budget)So please tell me again what it is that we do have "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:46 AM:

" CityGuy please tell us what has JC done for us lately? What are the new jobs (oh yea I forgot unemployement is way UP)? What is there for our kids to do lets think about all ages...2-10yrs? 11-18yrs?? Please let us know what all there is in JC...I know we have the Govenors Garden, the Capitol, and lots of low paying State Jobs...(please dont try to tell me they are high paying)We have the Runge Center (how many times do we want to go there?)And look around out our newest hotels what is drawing people in to want to stay at them? (Nothing that is why you can look in their lots on the weekends and see few cars) "

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:43 AM:

" And your right city, we do pride ourselves on researching REAL facts and wanting TRUE growth. I guess maybe your jealous, i dont really know. But, keep slinging your porpaganda, keep teling everyone who cares to read your post, that we are all idiots on the pro-side. If i recall we are all just hopeless gamblers anyway.

And on that note, ive got work to do. I should probably not post for a bit anyway, as im letting myself become perturbed by ignorance, and its not worth it. "

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:40 AM:

" City,

Whats to pity bud? The scared people on the anti-side that are afraid that life as then know it wont exist when JC decides on April 8th that it would actually like to grow, instead of being the capital, yet offeringso little. You want to live the country lifestye, then have at it. I'll even help you out.

Just head down 50, between here and Sedalia (including sedalia, i used to live there) and youve got McGirk, California, Tipton, Saracuse, Smithton, Sedalia, Cole Camp... A whole slew of options for you to go and live in a place where growth will never occur.

Meanwhile, Vote YES to growth in our community on Apr 8th. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:29 AM:

" I'm glad the pro casino crowd is such experts on what the city hasn't done and what they should do.

Well, I hope you guys have fun with your pitty party today. Misery loves company! "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:13 AM:

" Justin: I've come to that conclusion from reading all the posts from the pro casino side. Nothing but complaints about our town and the people in it. If there is something positive you'd like to say about Jeff City I'd like to see it. Another observation is that much of the negative seems to be coming from people that don't actually live inside the city IMO. Don't worry, the more you trash Jeff City, the more resolved I am.

You and I have discussed all this other stuff before. You think the way you do and I think the way I do. I'm not going to get into this long coversation with you again over the same things. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:12 AM:

" Also, JC needs to allow some clean tatoo shops, adult toy stores, etc. Why does all our sales tax money go to Columbia or the Lake?

I recall several decisions in the past five years to prevent new growth of restaurants, businesses, and employers in JC. Makes no sense to me to keep turning away private investment and jobs from our town.

Let the investors and entrepreneurs come! This town needs growth and opportunity. The infrastructure is crumbling and the city needs better services.

If you don't like to gamble, just don't go. Live and let live.

VOTE YES AND YES!!! "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:10 AM:

" Justin,

They skew people’s words because some of the Anti-Casino folks here want to make their point at any cost. What good is a statement if it cost’s a person their reputation and respect of the other posters? Don’t worry Justin, it is pretty obvious to all who and why. Everyone will get the right to vote for it on April 8th and the people of JC are intelligent and I believe will see through the twisted propaganda and vote YES/YES. Best regards.
"

boscoe wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:09 AM:

" Thanks Justin, very well said.

Jeff City needs to get its share of state and federal money like other towns go after and get. Why don't we have an interstate to the capital of Missouri? Why haven't city leaders demanded that MO-DOT fix the tri-level, the expressway, the 54 S curve, and make HWY 50 four-lane from Union to Sedalia. Where is the lobbying for our city?

"

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:54 AM:

" if you want to paint those of us that want growth within our town, and a place that our kids will WANT to stay, as opposed to one that they just cant wait to escape, the yes i guess we hate our town. ;) "

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:53 AM:

" Two of those ways are staring us right in the face. A convention center would be an EXCELLENT way to stimulate our economy. It shows new businesses that we are going to bringing in people from all over, who will have the time and money to spend, and will choose to do so at businesses in our community.

Next, we have the casino. The casino not only provides money into our city revenue (4 million last year in Boonville if you read the article), but it also once agian brings up both entertainment, as well as once again, it shows JC is embracing growth, and WANTS (actually wants) growth within our town. That said.. "

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:50 AM:

" That they are unhappy. WE are unhappy with the stagnet growth that JC (the capital of the state!!!) is experiencing. And when we see people like you guys so very down on anything that would provide REAL AND AUCTUAL growth, then it can be a bit disheartening. Yes we can have the MSP project which will ensure 3ird graders have somewhere to take a field trip to for generations to come. But really, that is not going to provide any sort of growth to this town, or to this economy in any major way. What we do need are things that can bring that real growth, and that comes in a number of ways.... "

Justin wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:48 AM:

" City (and pio too),

Is it really so fun to skew peoples words and statemetns to your advantage? does it make you feel like your making your point better? B/c really, your not, and if your reading things the way you are stating them, then may i suggest a reading comprehension class or 2!! No one has come on here and said they hate where they live. Not one single person has stated "Jefferson City is a trash hole town, and we all hate it". NOT ONE. Read all 450+ post and show it to me.... ya its not happening. What people have said before you started skewing facts to try to make your points was.......... "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:03 AM:

" Unemployment up, yes it's bound to get worse, these are very scary times, and look to get worse for awhile, so doubtful if any private business will be coming to town for awhile. For a previous blogger...a casino offers discretionary spending, which means if you have a budget, often times, your spending at a casino, means you often pull out of one of your other areas (ie: food, clothing, entertainment) to go to the casino, which means it's redistributed in that way as well. Other businesses often loose out if someone decides to spend their extra cash at a casino. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 18, 2008 7:57 AM:

" Wrong - I love the Katy trail, the rivers (overflowing now), the lake, the bluffs, the parks. I hate the hillbilly mentality where they harrass you (but thats anywhere in the midwest), I hate religions that judge you, I have had them come to my door and treat me like I am dirt. And I love people that hate where they live because it means they want change. Don't pity anyone for that. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 18, 2008 7:29 AM:

" CityGuy: You're right. It is sad people who live in this area are so unhappy. And pro-casino people are using this state of mind to convince the community we are worthless. The only hope we have is if a casino comes and saves us from ourselves. It's a common technique that abusers use to control their victims. And believe me JeffCity would be a victim of the gambling industry.

AMAZED: Good morning! What's up dude. Not much I guess. Were you drunk last night when you posted after midnight? Re-read your last three posts, they are funny.

Does anyone know why Mr. Opinion has not answered the question in CityGuy's 9:16 pm post from last night? "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:25 AM:

" "an organization whose entire existence is based on the existence of gambling is not biased?" - Byron
Very frequently he makes statement which exposes himself such as this. Churches extire existence are based on religion, governments entire existence are based on laws, colleges entire existence are based on education, the military's entire existence is based on protecting the country, law enforcements entire existence is based enforcing laws, etc. etc. see where this is going. Llets not forget the gaming commission was established to regulate the gaming industry in Missouri not suppot its existence and not the inuendo that it is somehow in collusion with gambling and cannot be trusted. There you have proof or irrationality again.
"

AMAZED wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:17 AM:

" CityGuy I love where I live, it's a portion of the people who make make it negative, with a mentality that is so far out of touch with reality I actually wonder where it is I'm living sometimes. Then I realize that I was not born here, even though I have lived here a lot longer than a lot of those who do, and then I understand that I'll never understand, and will only be able to support progress on the very few times it is available for me to do so. Also, nothing would be so beautiful as the lights of a casino reflecting off the north walls of the capital. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:12 AM:

" pioneers you are way to into this and thats not good with a state mentality. Apologies to your husband god love him for compensating for you and I love dogs to much to bring them into this for they have a heart and mind also. Get back to your anti-casino argument with stats that we can continually refute and relax, maybe hit the boat in Boonville a few times to practice for ours. You're old enough not to have to worry about priests and preachers though so look on the bright side for a change. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 17, 2008 11:17 PM:

" You know, I read all of these posts and it seems that the majority of the people that are pro casino have very little good to say about Jeff City. I think it's sad you don't like where you live. Will a casino make that much of a difference to you that you will suddenly think this is a great place to live. Casino = Great Place, No Casino = Terrible Place. Now there's some closed minded thinking for you. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:28 PM:

" PPS - and it was the gaming commission that joked about it. Ya know, I was Republican but worked for democrats too. I think you can probably work somewhere and still not agree 100 percent with who you are working for. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:23 PM:

" PS - thats not a slam, its just what I read in an article about this guy. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:22 PM:

" If I am not mistaken, the man you are referring to was talked about as being the gaming commissions token Baptist in an article I read. I wanted to know also and happened to find that quote in an article about a month ago. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:21 PM:

" Just listened to KRCG news and guess what unemployement is UP for 2008....isnt it sad we want to make sure people dont get jobs?? For everyone who keeps voting to keep jobs away from our area please tell those families that are struggling to feed their families why we are saying No to jobs...as for my family they are voting YES YES "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:20 PM:

" CityGuy lets see if i can answer your question as to why they would go against it...might be they have to sign a paper stating they wont gamble at any lottery retailer or any casino within our state...its the first thing you get if you get a job with them. So most of them dont have anything to do with gambling to begin with. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:14 PM:

" Justin,

You should bring your kids to the Oktoberfest. They would love the weiner dog races. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 17, 2008 9:55 PM:

" Does anybody know why the man that worked for the Missouri Gaming Commission for 7 years is now against a casino in Jeff City? I think his last name is Rob. It makes me wonder why he is now against a casino. Might he have seen things about gaming that he didn't like.

And then there was Frank Fahrenkopf, who was the CEO of the American Gaming Association that said he would work very hard to keep a casino from coming into his community. Makes you wonder why.

Has there ever been a person that was head of an anti gaming group that later switched and came out for a casino in their community. Makes you wonder why? "

Justin wrote on Mar 17, 2008 9:15 PM:

" Hes Swiss,

dont try to reason with Byro. Hes scared of everything about change. He's all for small town no growth mentality, but add in something that he fears, and all the sudden eh goes off. if you watch, he will post here again shortly, it will be 2 lines at most, and it will be rude. Thats just how he handles things.

Pio, why you list some good things for this town, you need to ger realistic. the things you are listing, are small town ONLY. Anything that a decent sized town (a capital should be), doesnt want anything to do with us, b/c they know theres so much fear. Hopefully that'll change. "

CityGuy wrote on Mar 17, 2008 9:06 PM:

" Mr O: That was me that kept asking for the Boonville median household income. You are right on the money regarding the 2004 - 2005 city-data.com numbers. I've poted them before.

Now tell me where you got the 2007 numbers. It wasn't from city-data.com. Lets make sure we are comparing apples to apples. You're not trying to fudge the numbers are you? "

swissgirl wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:52 PM:

" Pioneers, to answer your question, whenever the media (at least in St. Louis) wants someone to say bad things about casinos and gambling they go straight to Casino Watch. Now I'm sure you'll find some way to tell me I'm wrong--but I'm not. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:43 PM:

" Ok, I apologize to everyone for what I said to AMAZED. AMAZED I'm sure you're a nice man. My husband thinks you're bullying me around because you're "trying to over-compensate" whatever that means.

Oh, and here's something from the Buffalo News (posted on Casinowatchdotorg: "Ironically, it's been found that stress-related illnesses associated with people with gambling problems, such as headaches, high blood pressure, anxiety and depression, also have been found in family members." "

JCkat wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:42 PM:

" I guess I don't understand this very well. Some have said how it will hurt local business. How? You can't buy gas at a casino. You can't buy toilet paper at a casino. You will still have to buy them at the place you prefer to shop. A casino won't create anymore wealth in the pocketbooks for us any more that Walmart or any other business does,unless someone wins big, or the casino is locally owned, but it will provide jobs like walmart does. And lets face it folks none of us are going to change anyones mind on how they feel about this. "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:18 PM:

" "an organization whose entire existence is based on the existence of gambling is not biased?" - Byron

Absolutely not. This is why there are audits, etc. The MGC REGULATES casinos so that everything is justified, they are not the "central casino fund". "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:16 PM:

" Sounds like an anti-clergy world view to me AMAZED.

Here's something you can work with:

"So when you're dealing with one addict you're dealing with 8-10 of the people that get affected because of the addiction." (Ed Looney: the Council for Compulsive Gambling)

Ok AMAZED, instead of responding to the above information, why don't you spend your time this evening insulting my dog too, you've insulted me, dragged my husband into it, yeah, time for you to attack my pet. Have at it AMAZED. Oh, and by the way, you're nothing like my husband. He has a mind and a soul. "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:16 PM:

" plain_citizen strikes an interesting point. "

Byron W. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:16 PM:

" swissgirl wrote "For unbiased, straightforward information you can't go wrong with the Missouri Gaming Commission. "

an organization whose entire existence is based on the existence of gambling is not biased? "

MrOpinion wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:15 PM:

" Pio - I never said to stop talking. I merely said there's no point in arguing.

As for who keeps asking about household income for Boonville...

Estimated median household income in 2005: $35,400 (it was $33,440 in 2000) via city-data.com

2007 median household income: $47,747.

Nuff said. "

Byron W. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:14 PM:

" boscoe wrote "This town is against everything that is pro-business, pro-employment, and pro-fun."

Other than the casino what else are "WE" against?


"

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:02 PM:

" If we must quote STATS to prove our point - Then look at these- Catholic priests make up 10% of North American Clergy but were 40% of those accused of child molestation. Protestant clergy showed about the same invert numbers. Catholic priests prefer boys 90% of the time, while Protestant Clergy prefer girls 60% of the time. "Freedom From Religion Foundation" This of course is the most hideous abuse, to most of us at least. So, using the statistic argument, and based on those numbers, I recommend we ban all Catholic and Protestant churches from Jeferson City. Subject to a vote on the casino of course. "

plain_citizen wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:58 PM:

" Why is it that this issue is only on the ballot for the residence inside the city limits? To me this should be an issue for the entire county. Aren't they going to also be the ones using this casino? I feel that as a resident of Cole County I should have a say since the city is inside the county. My tax dollars will some how be incorporated into this some how I know. I mean I do shop, eat, work, and enjoy recreational benefits inside the city. I had to suffer when the sales taxes went into effect and did not get a say. Shouldn't COUNTY reisdence have a say? "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:47 PM:

" pioneers - I dont wake up grumpy in the morning I'm sorta like your husband I just let her sleep and listen to her complain later. But now that the casinos coming to Jeff she might be happier and quit going to church. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:43 PM:

" Lets vote and vote in April! "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:40 PM:

" Oh oh, sorry I ever told AMAZED to take a nap. He's one of those people who wake up really really grumpy.
My bad.

I'm glad you have the misconception that you have about me. Makes you an easy easy target. Keep the insults coming. Oh, dog gone it. I'm homaney adding again.

Okay, I'll stop.

To everyone else, check out the web site with the anti-gaming world view (casinowatch.com) decide for yourself. Oh, this is interesting: "Up to 50% of spouses of addicted gamblers are abused. When casinos opened in SD child abuse rose by 42% and domestic assaults by 80%." (National Research Council, The Guardian 11-5-04).

Yep, sounds like a bunch of communists to me. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:32 PM:

" Swissgirl thinks Casino watch has an "anti-gaming world view." I'm sincerely interested in your source for that info.

For those of you who think JeffCity is so awful, pretend your house is the center of a circle with a diameter of two-miles. Think about your neighbors, their homes, your street (or road), your house, the stores where you shop, all the things you see in that circle when you step out of your house. Now imagine that day after day you hear people saying rotten stuff about your circle. Your house, your friends your neighbors, places you go, things you do, are antiquated, laughable, etc. Re-read some of the posts criticizing JeffCity, how would you feel if people said that about your home? "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:20 PM:

" Swissgirl - Dont start throwing facts, truth, and reality at these people, they'll start frothing at the mouth and short circuit your laptop. If you want to meet them the will be ones with the signs on the picket line in front of the casino, asking you to donate money to their anti-gaambling crusade. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:15 PM:

" Who cares what you said "pioneers" I told you what I did. If that doesn't match up to your job descriptions then I'll pray about it tomorrow and go to church in November. Chill out! 27 years as a state secretary has gotten to you. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:14 PM:

" I'm still talking about the festivals we have: In July, as mentioned, we have the 4th of July celebration. I think 30,000 attend that. Of course Boscoe hates it. I don't like it either Boscoe. My daughter used to insist on going, so I got my fill of it back then. This year we will have the Tour of Missouri Bike Race again. We have old car enthusiasts taking over downtown one weekend a week in the summer. We have Oktober Fest in the fall. That draws tousands of people.

That's just the few I know about.

"

swissgirl wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:14 PM:

" Casino Watch is a well known anti-gambling organization. The so-called facts and statistics mentioned on their website have been twisted to conform to their anti-gaming world view. For unbiased, straightforward information you can't go wrong with the Missouri Gaming Commission. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:06 PM:

" ChristnLady is right. Kids leave. After WW II (or I) there was a song, "How ya gonna keep em down on the farm after they've seen Parie?" It is a fact of life. My husband and I both left our respective home towns after high school, went to college and settled somewhere else.

Saying JeffCity is awful because kids leave and don't settle here is not a valid reason for bringing a casino here.

Also, there's been talk on here about festivals. Several have been mentioned. Here's what I can think of: Living Windows at Christmas Town, draws thousands of people to our downtown, usually in awful weather.; June we have historic home tours; and the Walk for Life.... "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 17, 2008 6:20 PM:

" PS...even in KC and St. Louis, the kids leave town, it's a fact of life. Either they want to do something different, or their job requires them to move. This is nothing new, and will continue on all over the US. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 17, 2008 6:19 PM:

" This town lacks committment from most of us. Even Russellville has a yearly event or two, and it's been going on for some years now. People don't want to volunteer, or commit, or do anything involving work. They want someone else to do it all, just bring in the casino, and we'll be happy until the grass is greener again :) Look at Hermann...they have all sorts of festivals, usually monthly and continue to draw in people from all over the state from car and train. I think if we look hard enough we can find something for everyone. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 17, 2008 6:08 PM:

" Keep taking your kids to Columbia. It is neccessary training so they will learn to leave JC as soon as they can so they can have something to do (work) later in life.

This town is against everything that is pro-business, pro-employment, and pro-fun.

As someone pointed out earlier, even the community leaders who sponsor the July 4th celebration leave JC on the 4th. They can't stand their own boring event that they pay for. "

boscoe wrote on Mar 17, 2008 6:00 PM:

" Station Casino has daycare center for very young children, a huge cool video game room for teens, neat shops and restaurants, food court, a nice hotel, etc. Only gambling area is off-limits to kids.

Someone please put Capital Mall out of its misery. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:51 PM:

" we have some things in our area but they dont last...we had Lewis and Clark days...other areas have powwows to attend for the public to learn about Native things...black history we touch on a small part of it...what about showing stuff for people of all cultures...how about having an area for Christian concerts for kids...help promote things that are good healthy fun. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:50 PM:

" pioneers so let me understand this right you think we should promote going and looking at old prisons to our children. Sorry dont care to go look at a prison (place where we keep criminals) I understand they arent there now but personally dont care to go in and look around and asked my kids and they dont care to look either. Now what they could do with that site is set up things for kids to do....Make an area for kids to go dancing and hold concerts...have an area for kids to go play games...make things for them to do....make it a safe place for kids to do stuff...we need stuff in this town worth doing and stuff for our kids to do... "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:46 PM:

" We need more yearly activities, but it takes manpower. My cousin used to be from mid-western KS started a huge arts & crafts festival, and it's grown and become a huge draw for central KS to attend. They have concerts nightly, music daily, kids activities, contests, food, fun, art and crafts. I'm sure it brings tens of thousands to the town daily during this 3 day festival, and gives the townspeople something to look forward to. This town is similar in size to Jeff City. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:41 PM:

" Ideas? Family Fun Center as mentioned, Campgrounds, Horse & Carriage Historical Tours, Indoor water park, Outdoor amusement park (smaller in scale), new Roller skating rink, new bowling alley, etc., etc. But all this costs someone money...and because it is getting so expensive, might need to be joint ventures with multiple business partners. Come on, join me in supporting growth in Jefferson City. Good, clean growth. Thank you. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:36 PM:

" The same thing at one of the local furniture stores...they also have a store in columbia, and i commented on the differences one day..and the owner told me the same thing. We need to elevate ourselves with good choices of entertainment and business, not go with what is easiest or what everyone else is doing. Only then can we draw more population, more visiting, and more businesses will follow suit. We've got plenty of open office/business space since the govt. called back to town all of the rented office space, so we're ready & waiting. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:16 PM:

" And you are 100 percent right. JC is viewed as rural. A relative of mine worked at Penneys. I asked one day why some of the clothes here were so "dowdy" (that was a while back) and she told me that its because they consider this area rural and try to sell clothes that rural people would buy. This might be the big time to some from small communities but its still viewed as rural and somewhat backwards. I wouldn't open a large business here either under those circumstances. "

Christnlady wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:07 PM:

" The grass is always greener on the other side. People in rural MO do come to Jeff City with their kids on weekends.. our kids go elsewhere. Face it, our population scares off many of the private or public companies, it's not that anyone in Jeff City is "scared" of change, it takes committment on the business side, and they do the studies, and decide "no". We need to lobby City Hall to help push them in getting other businesses to look at Jeff City...it's their job to help with this. And yes, most of us would like growth... vote "no" to the casino. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:05 PM:

" I can't take on work for another agency, I would lose my retirement benefits. But thanks for the suggestion. Why don't you think that these people that post in here are just free thinking people that are stating what they want? And I do believe that the 20 somethings and 30 year olds just might surprise you come election time. They want more for their kids. "

Byron W. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:00 PM:

" Justin wrote "ok heres whats funny. 2 hrs ago, rick says "if you cant play nice dont play." All of the sudden, we've lost our key players that have spent post after post telling us we are full of it instead of trying to refute facts. Im sure they will pop in and say "

Some people have work to do. I have told no one tat they are full of it. The facts that can be refuted have been. This issue isn't just about facts. It is about the community we live in and how we want that community to be. I have concluded from your posts that you beleive it is all about $$$$. Life is more than $$$. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 4:58 PM:

" I am not on their payroll, I am retired. Oh by the way, the YMCA is having Viva Las Vegas night. "

Byron W. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 4:55 PM:

" Justin wrote "ad hominems happens to be when someone has been proven wrong in an arguement, has no comeback, and so they attack the person instead. For example, post after post of accusing people of "baseless attacks". Thats an ad hominem arguement, instaed of addressing an arguement, its turned on the person.

Here is a definition of ad hominem: Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.

If you think that my stating that your comments are baseless attacks on me is an ad hominem attack you should reconsider.
"

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 4:40 PM:

" I forgot to mention earlier, for you pro-casino people, if you do take my advise and call the gaming industry folks and ask them to pay you for the time you are posting all this great information for them, would you ask them what they pay for that? We can factor it into our figures for the average hourly rate for casino employees. Of course if you are already on the payroll, just let us know the figures.

Oh, Oh, did I just add a homanym? Dang it! Ok, I'll leave. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 4:22 PM:

" Sorry Justin, I had stuff to do, and I actually have to get back to it. What did you think of the casinowatch.com website?

AMAZED, I said HIllary's hairdresser and spiritual advisor's MENTOR. Big difference buddy.

Boxer, 20,000 people toured that prison in one weekend. The reason we think it's a big deal is because there aren't very many around that are old and open to the public. I can think of Alcatraz and no other. It's unique. People will come for that reason alone. There's 12 casinos in Missouri. What's unique about that.

You guys are doing great for the gaming industry. You should call them up and demand that they pay you for your services.

Gotta go.
"

Justin wrote on Mar 17, 2008 4:06 PM:

" ok heres whats funny. 2 hrs ago, rick says "if you cant play nice dont play." All of the sudden, we've lost our key players that have spent post after post telling us we are full of it instead of trying to refute facts. Im sure they will pop in and say " iwas gone" or "i have a life" or etc... Thats ok with me, still funny!!! Say YES to casinos, and NO NO NO to ad homienums!!! "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:46 PM:

" Have you all ever seen the tour buses headed for Branson? I have as I am out a lot in the summer. Loads of them. Those are probably package deals. They stop in at the lake and then head for Branson. This is such a no brainer, that I can't for the life of me understand what the problem is other than a religious slant. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:44 PM:

" Total sense. People in tour buses equal revenue. They will spend outside of the casino, maybe uptown? Other people will see money being spent at the casino and think "hey" I will open a business in JC. I am telling you its so simple. I mentioned before that the movie star John Goodman is opening a place at the lake. Why? Because people spend money there. Its not that you want to gamble, I so get that. Its not just a black and white issue. "

Justin wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:37 PM:

" Boxer,

Thats the point ive been trying so hard to make, but keep getting ignored, or accused of making "baseless comments" over and over again. I want this casino for so many reasons other than gambling its not even funny. If it can stimulate the growth, provide the jobs, provide the incomes, provide the money to the city, then why... why on any level... does this not appear to make sense (cents if you will) to them. Instead they use fear and propaganda to try and scare people from the issue. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:34 PM:

" Yep, concerts were a big part of my youth and I am 55. I had the priviledge of seeing people like Elton John and others. But here you have to go to Columbia, but at least you can go there. I don't think people realize that there are things that might come with a casino, like a riverside amphitheater. Who knows? And on the drinking....my bro graduated from JC and then moved when he was hired by a major company. He said if he had stayed around here, he would have drank, just like all of his friends. So I understand that one too. "

Justin wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:33 PM:

" Pio states "Why, knowing the costs of gambling to taxpayers, to addicted gamblers, their families, to employers, the bankruptcies, children in foster care, why would we think that putting a gambling casino in Missouri's capital city is something we should do?"

B/c we know that the fear mongerers are exploiting, twisting, and stretching their "facts" to make these things sound like they happen all the time, when they dont.

And b/c we know that local examples (not more than an hr away), show us that MILLIONS can be added to city revenue, as well as entertainment, and over all economic value. Thats why. ;)
"

Justin wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:29 PM:

" boxer,

Its nice to see other people see what i do. I'm not even 30 years old yet, so believe me, it was close enough for me to remember what there was to do as a teen, and thats what it was. I personally want the future to offer my children something to do, and entertain them, without having to resort to that. I was able to avoid the drinking, but most kids dont. I for one dont want my girls growning up with that to look forward to.

Sure i went to a lot of concerts when i was that age to, and had a blast, saw some really fun concerts and met some cool groups...IN COLUMBIA!!!! "

mp6500 wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:22 PM:

" Pio,

You said “We are growing, we are open-minded, we are working to bring good quality things to our community.” I agree with you. Of course, Byron W. said “Maybe an "open mind" is an empty mind.” Just between you and me, I disagree with Byron. 8-)
"

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:21 PM:

" I have one more thing to say (promise). You all say what you want about casinos so I have this to say. Do you, in all reality, think that many people will really visit an old penitentiary site? I mean really? Do you think thats anything that our youth would want to visit??? Oh, maybe once. I do have a slight fascination with it but thats about it, slight. And why would you want to promote a prison? Out of all the things that could be promoted, why that? Why not a fabulous art gallery, or science center or something like that? Because the city of JC is clueless as to culture. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:02 PM:

" Amazed - ha!!!!!!!!!!! too funny. I thought that was mine and Boscoe's job. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:01 PM:

" By the way, take a drive past the bridge and look at the lovely "crop circles" near the boat ramp. The kids in this area are so bored that they are being destructive. They tore up a farmers field. Boredom leads to vandalism (of which we have endured), pregnancy, drinking, and last but not least drugs. Yep, that what I would want for the youth of tomorrow. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:58 PM:

" Actually I am Hillary's hairdresser and spiritual advisor and will be her Vice-President in November when all casinos will be federally legaized. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:43 PM:

" And Justin...I do understand, totally. I can't tell you how many kids I know of that are of the 16-17 age bracket that go to parties in fields and get drunk. You sound like a good parent that cares. Good for you. Hopefully, someday, this place will expand and if not...see you in Columbia. "

ndnlvngcherokee wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:43 PM:

" Justin I was agreeing with you hun...I have teenagers...one is going to be 15, 13yr, and an 18yr old...the 18yr old cant even take her brothers with her to shop on the weekends without us there...To me that is a little over board...We need things in this area for all of our kids to do from the ages of walking on up to teenagers...we dont have that...for the young kids you have Runge Center Habitat Happenings, the capital Museum, and every now and then something happening at the governors garden...other than that we have Columbia...fun fun...for teens and young teens there is Roller Skating but hey they are trying to sell that place...Movies...check out the cost there...no wonder kids are in trouble around here. "

Justin wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:43 PM:

" ad hominems happens to be when someone has been proven wrong in an arguement, has no comeback, and so they attack the person instead. For example, post after post of accusing people of "baseless attacks". Thats an ad hominem arguement, instaed of addressing an arguement, its turned on the person. Out of 400+ post, id say its happened to people on both sides of this argument numerous times.

its hard when we get passionate to state on topic, though i think (most of us) try to. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:41 PM:

" Also on the casinowatchdotcom website, you will see: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." (Albert Einstein)

Why, knowing the costs of gambling to taxpayers, to addicted gamblers, their families, to employers, the bankruptcies, children in foster care, why would we think that putting a gambling casino in Missouri's capital city is something we should do?

We are growing, we are open-minded, we are working to bring good quality things to our community. Many posting on this forum are just not aware of things being worked on, and good things in progress. I encourage you to learn what you can about the positive things in this community.

"

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:41 PM:

" I have to say something....you all are so, so outdated and antiquated. I am not sure I understand it all except for the fact that you are the old school of JC. Hey, keep on keeping on. My husband and I were just in town (yes we do go there) and were just commenting on how everyone complains about growth, the jobs, the roads but no one wants to do anything about it. Hey, if you are happy with it so be it. As for me and my husband, we will hit the road any chance we get. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:36 PM:

" Pio - I do not live here, I do business (sometimes in JC). My son lives there with his girlfriend and they do lots of business there, so yes, its my business. Again, not sure about the Clinton thingy, I am Republican. "

boxergal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:34 PM:

" Pio - what the heck are you talking about? I don't get it (Hillary). Sorry, I don't understand at all. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:33 PM:

" Okay okay, I'll quit adding homanyms (whatever that means).

Lets talk money. Go to casinowatchdotcom. You'll see a list of topics. Click on cost-economical/social. You'll see the cost of gambling in Missouri. Go to the chart. It's pretty scary. The short version: in 2001 Missouri taxpayers subsidized glamling to the tune of $604,705,430. Yikes!

Now before all you pro-gambling people start screaming how can that be, where did you get your numbers, go look at the web site yourself. Click on the tab that says "Cost of Gambling in Missouri" and study the chart. The source is listed under the chart.

All the people on the fence will go to casinowatchdotcom. "

online_editor wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:08 PM:

" We had been teetering on the edge with a small bit of needling but still maintaining some degree of civility and relevance to the topic. Now a few have gone over the edge. Let's stop the ad hominems and stick to facts and your opinions about facts. --Rick Brown, online editor, News Tribune "

Justin wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:07 PM:

" I mean honestly pio, even my girls at 8 and 6, dont say "daddy, please take us to the library, we are bored!" They love to read, but thats not what they are thinking about when they want to be entertained. They say "can we go to chucky cheese, or bonkers, or the park, or etc..." The park of course works great when its not pouring rain (like today).

My point in all of this, is that growth is required for anything to expand, and that doesnt happen when people fear miniscule occurances, and run and hide instead. "

Justin wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:03 PM:

" Pio,

Im not making fun of library clubs. I'm not making fun of the library. Reading is a wonderful thing for the kids to do, and most assuradly good for their education. However, i made a coment about kids / teens of this community having nothing to entertain them and the need for that, and you brought up the library. Yes that is a good place for them to go and learn, but ask most teens what they have planed for the weekend, and im pretty sure 98% or better are going to not say "im going to the library to hang out with my friends." Kids need places to go to be entertained, and that takes growth. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:01 PM:

" Oh good, someone opened the door to conspiracy theories. Here's what I think: Boscoe and Boxer are twins, and they don't even live here. They are mentors to Hillary Clinton's hairdresser and spiritual advisor.

Actually, am I the only one sitting here and laughing with joy at the subtle humor you guys are using in your posts?

Oh, and Boxer, the first paragraph is a joke please don't take it personally.

Actually I blame Mr. O for all of this. Last night he told us to stop talking and next thing you know, the you know what hit the fan. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:47 PM:

" Boxer, I think progress is being made on getting some type of bridge for walkers and bikers, probably connected to the existing bridge over the MO River. And the goal is to connect to the Katy Trail. They also want to extend the greenway in JeffCity to go along the river. I think it is planned to go along the MSP site, then continue east and connect to the bridge. It won't happen right away. But I believe it will happen.

I love biking at the Katy Trail also, as well as on the Greenway in JeffCity. We're so fortunate to have those opportunities to enjoy natural areas in this community. "

pioneers wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:40 PM:

" AMAZED I'm going to tell you the same thing I told Boscoe, you need a nap, you're getting fussy. After that we didn't hear from Boscoe for a while, then in his next post he was wishing us all peace.

Justin, I don't respond to all your posts because you post as much or more than I do. I can't keep up with them all. But do stop making fun of library reading clubs. My kids went to the library a lot. Consequently they liked to read. When my daughter was in high school she raised her ACT score. Every night she read a lot. There's a theory that reading a lot helps kids raise their test scores. It appeared to help. "

Byron W. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:37 PM:

" AMAZED wrote "An honet difference of opion I gladly accept. Show me that in your posts and I will stop exposing you.. "

Again, when someone makes an accusation they generally have the burden to provide the proof. Go for it. "

Byron W. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:36 PM:

" AMAZED wrote " I think Bryon and pioneers are the same poster, so it looks like they have support. "

conspiratorial delusions. "

Byron W. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:35 PM:

" AMAZED wrote, "At least be original here and come up with your own thought process, instead of the "he said - she said" which you have had the editor admonish you for doing more than once! OK - original thought now - try hard... "

Okay here is an orginal thought: you have nothing to offer other than bitterness. Has anyone else wrote that?
"

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:34 PM:

" What's poppycock? A new church? "

Byron W. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:34 PM:

" Justin, kids have a lot of things to do if you think about. No one is going to keep any kids that want to drink from going out to the country to do so because it is illegal for them to drink. We can prevent them from doing so as best we can but until we allow kids to drink they'll do it in secret. Finnaly, I have no fear, Justin, none whatsoever. "

Byron W. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:30 PM:

" Justin wrote "no one is going to put the money in to those types of ventures right now, b/c they know, odds are, its gunna be protested and shot down, b/c its not whats comfortable to the people of JC who are so very afraid that god forbid, this town grow."

Now there is an example of baseless fear. It is pure poppycock to believe this town does not want growth. Some might say a delusion. The real issue is the type of growth that people want. If someone wants to start a business they are generally free to do so. Casinos are treated differently and have been for a long, long time. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:29 PM:

" An honet difference of opion I gladly accept. Show me that in your posts and I will stop exposing you.. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:28 PM:

" I think Bryon and pioneers are the same poster, so it looks like they have support. "

AMAZED wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:26 PM:

" At least be original here and come up with your own thought process, instead of the "he said - she said" which you have had the editor admonish you for doing more than once! OK - original thought now - try hard... "